Dr.Palutena
Member
I wish the town here had a taco bell so I could make horrible horrible mistakes
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Toonami |Feb14| We Kick Ass for the LORD!
- Thread starter Seda
- Start date
- Status
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Pitch Black was absolutely rancid. Maybe the worst soda I've ever had.
Doctor Decimate
Member
so, these are my main issues with SAO
Pacing - The first arc is riddled with timeskips, which undermines any sense of tension the plot might have had. And it would have been bad enough if it was skipping around between important plot points, but it's skipping between what amounts to side stories. They feel like filler and destroy any sense of forward plot progression. If nothing else, the second arc has the characters constantly moving toward their goal.
Kirito - This guy doesn't get any substantial character development until episode 23. And even then, he's not an interesting character to watch. What is he? He's kind of nice, and he's sort of awkward. Watching him try to carry this show is painful at times because he's too bland to be up to the task. As for being a "Gary Stu", yeah. He's a blatant self-insert that gets things dropped into his lap more or less because he's the main character; the reasons are either contrived, unconvincing, or nonexistent. He doesn't seem to really EARN any of his prowess. And I mean, watching an overpowered character can be fun. But they have to do interesting things with their overpowered-ness, and Kirito doesn't. It's like if Superman solved everything by throwing it into space.
"Harem" - I put the quotes around this because I disagree with the label. Most of these girls appear for like one episode, guys, come on. But the meaning behind the words doesn't really change. When people complain about the harem, they're really complaining about the show's treatment of women. The way every girl falls all over themselves for the cardboard cutout of a protagonist is kind of sad. "But he's a nice guy and he saves them," I've seen some people retort. Hate to break it to these people (like that awful Japanator article), but women are more complicated than that. You can do this for one girl, maybe even two, but all of them? Come on now. It's not convincing in the least, and it's honestly pretty pathetic.
Tone - The whole harem thing can work in the proper context. But SAO wants to be taken seriously. It doesn't want to be Berserk or Black Lagoon or anything, but it places itself firmly in the realm of something that comes across as realistic. If the show was sillier, a lot of the complaints I have here would slide. But the way the show presents itself forces me as a viewer to consider it as something serious, not as dumb entertainment. It's why the harem doesn't work, it's why the fanservice is jarring and comical, and it's why the second arc's villain is too over-the-top to seem anything but out-of-place.
"Depth" - It's almost funny, really. Some people tell me that I should treat this like dumb entertainment, but others will insist that this is a deep show. They'll tell me this is some examination of the human condition, some grand statement about mankind (looking at you, Kotaku). And that's bullshit. People do this all the time, they look for things to justify their own enjoyment because they aren't secure in simply saying "well, I liked it." Any supposed "depth" here is incidental. We see people adapting to life in the game because that's the way the author was able to tell these side stories. But let's for a moment entertain the idea that this was meant to be deep. After all, it touches on the topic of humans adapting on occasion. So what? What does it say? How does it say it in a unique or interesting way? Why is it saying it? These questions can't be answered, because SAO only scratches the surface. At best. And it doesn't get points for bringing up the topic. This isn't Faulkner just because Agil copes by running an item shop, boys and girls.
Deus ex machina - It's ok to have the cavalry come in at the opportune moment every once in a while. But this seems to be the only way SAO knows how to resolve things. Asuna running to save the paralyzed Kirito, whatever the hell happened in the first arc's finale, the raid on the World Tree, Kayaba helping Kirito out against Sugo, and probably some other instances I've left out. It works the first time, maybe even the second time, but when you do it this frequently in a 25 episode series it loses any impact and becomes exposed for the bullshit it is.
Tasteless Portrayal of "Rape" and "Incest" - The quotes are here because that's what I'm going to call them. I know it's not incest or rape on paper, but it's easier to write that than it is to say "the romantic feelings she has for her brother" or "sexual assault" every time. These are two heavy, taboo subjects. They need to be handled with care or they derail your entire storyline. They're not handled with care. The incest is obvious pandering, and it's distracting. Worse, they expect me to feel bad for Suguha. Sorry, writers, I don't relate to this. There's a big wall between me and getting emotional, and it's labeled INCEST, just like that, in all caps. The rape is even worse. It's completely incongruous with the tone of the show, and it's entirely unnecessary. You can replace it with anything. It's just another evil act for the villain to perform, and that trivializes rape in a way it should not be.
Villains - Kayaba forgot. Why did he want to build his big world of dreams? He forgot. The viewer is given no satisfactory reason for his actions, his GENOCIDE, beyond "well i wanted to build me a world." And then once he reappears to help out he's generally treated like a swell guy after all. Mentions of that genocide? Nope. Any ambivalence whatsoever? Nope. Then there's Sugo, who's introduced sniffing Asuna's hair. He's a cartoon character, plain and simple. He seems laughably out of place.
Characters - Remember Klein and Agil? Sure you do. Now, think about how often you see them throughout the show. Their total screentime is minimal at best, and they're probably some of the most recurring characters next to Asuna, Yui, and Suguha. We never get a chance to really know them, and that goes for almost everyone in the show, including its protagonist to an extent. Character development is sorely lacking on all fronts, and almost everyone is filed neatly into an existing archetype. That's a problem for a show that is generally character-driven, and it leads to laughable episodes like the third one, which tried to make us feel bad for the deaths of a party we knew for 10 minutes, at best. Who the hell is Silica? Who the hell is Lisbeth? Who the hell was Sachi? They use "hey, cute girls" as a crutch to get the viewer to care. Yui is probably the worst offender, as they shove her "cuteness" in your face until it becomes repulsive.
General Stupidity - I don't want to go back and make a list of all the little things that jumped out at me as silly or stupid, but suffice it to say there was a hell of a lot. The general premise behind Alfheim Online, which makes no sense from a game design standpoint, is one. The sheer melodrama in ALO despite the removed threat of death is another. As is how Kirito and Leafa do not recognize each other. And also the way the show assumes we're going to just buy personalities being uploaded online or AIs gaining sentience. And plot contrivances like the keycard.
Pacing - The first arc is riddled with timeskips, which undermines any sense of tension the plot might have had. And it would have been bad enough if it was skipping around between important plot points, but it's skipping between what amounts to side stories. They feel like filler and destroy any sense of forward plot progression. If nothing else, the second arc has the characters constantly moving toward their goal.
Kirito - This guy doesn't get any substantial character development until episode 23. And even then, he's not an interesting character to watch. What is he? He's kind of nice, and he's sort of awkward. Watching him try to carry this show is painful at times because he's too bland to be up to the task. As for being a "Gary Stu", yeah. He's a blatant self-insert that gets things dropped into his lap more or less because he's the main character; the reasons are either contrived, unconvincing, or nonexistent. He doesn't seem to really EARN any of his prowess. And I mean, watching an overpowered character can be fun. But they have to do interesting things with their overpowered-ness, and Kirito doesn't. It's like if Superman solved everything by throwing it into space.
"Harem" - I put the quotes around this because I disagree with the label. Most of these girls appear for like one episode, guys, come on. But the meaning behind the words doesn't really change. When people complain about the harem, they're really complaining about the show's treatment of women. The way every girl falls all over themselves for the cardboard cutout of a protagonist is kind of sad. "But he's a nice guy and he saves them," I've seen some people retort. Hate to break it to these people (like that awful Japanator article), but women are more complicated than that. You can do this for one girl, maybe even two, but all of them? Come on now. It's not convincing in the least, and it's honestly pretty pathetic.
Tone - The whole harem thing can work in the proper context. But SAO wants to be taken seriously. It doesn't want to be Berserk or Black Lagoon or anything, but it places itself firmly in the realm of something that comes across as realistic. If the show was sillier, a lot of the complaints I have here would slide. But the way the show presents itself forces me as a viewer to consider it as something serious, not as dumb entertainment. It's why the harem doesn't work, it's why the fanservice is jarring and comical, and it's why the second arc's villain is too over-the-top to seem anything but out-of-place.
"Depth" - It's almost funny, really. Some people tell me that I should treat this like dumb entertainment, but others will insist that this is a deep show. They'll tell me this is some examination of the human condition, some grand statement about mankind (looking at you, Kotaku). And that's bullshit. People do this all the time, they look for things to justify their own enjoyment because they aren't secure in simply saying "well, I liked it." Any supposed "depth" here is incidental. We see people adapting to life in the game because that's the way the author was able to tell these side stories. But let's for a moment entertain the idea that this was meant to be deep. After all, it touches on the topic of humans adapting on occasion. So what? What does it say? How does it say it in a unique or interesting way? Why is it saying it? These questions can't be answered, because SAO only scratches the surface. At best. And it doesn't get points for bringing up the topic. This isn't Faulkner just because Agil copes by running an item shop, boys and girls.
Deus ex machina - It's ok to have the cavalry come in at the opportune moment every once in a while. But this seems to be the only way SAO knows how to resolve things. Asuna running to save the paralyzed Kirito, whatever the hell happened in the first arc's finale, the raid on the World Tree, Kayaba helping Kirito out against Sugo, and probably some other instances I've left out. It works the first time, maybe even the second time, but when you do it this frequently in a 25 episode series it loses any impact and becomes exposed for the bullshit it is.
Tasteless Portrayal of "Rape" and "Incest" - The quotes are here because that's what I'm going to call them. I know it's not incest or rape on paper, but it's easier to write that than it is to say "the romantic feelings she has for her brother" or "sexual assault" every time. These are two heavy, taboo subjects. They need to be handled with care or they derail your entire storyline. They're not handled with care. The incest is obvious pandering, and it's distracting. Worse, they expect me to feel bad for Suguha. Sorry, writers, I don't relate to this. There's a big wall between me and getting emotional, and it's labeled INCEST, just like that, in all caps. The rape is even worse. It's completely incongruous with the tone of the show, and it's entirely unnecessary. You can replace it with anything. It's just another evil act for the villain to perform, and that trivializes rape in a way it should not be.
Villains - Kayaba forgot. Why did he want to build his big world of dreams? He forgot. The viewer is given no satisfactory reason for his actions, his GENOCIDE, beyond "well i wanted to build me a world." And then once he reappears to help out he's generally treated like a swell guy after all. Mentions of that genocide? Nope. Any ambivalence whatsoever? Nope. Then there's Sugo, who's introduced sniffing Asuna's hair. He's a cartoon character, plain and simple. He seems laughably out of place.
Characters - Remember Klein and Agil? Sure you do. Now, think about how often you see them throughout the show. Their total screentime is minimal at best, and they're probably some of the most recurring characters next to Asuna, Yui, and Suguha. We never get a chance to really know them, and that goes for almost everyone in the show, including its protagonist to an extent. Character development is sorely lacking on all fronts, and almost everyone is filed neatly into an existing archetype. That's a problem for a show that is generally character-driven, and it leads to laughable episodes like the third one, which tried to make us feel bad for the deaths of a party we knew for 10 minutes, at best. Who the hell is Silica? Who the hell is Lisbeth? Who the hell was Sachi? They use "hey, cute girls" as a crutch to get the viewer to care. Yui is probably the worst offender, as they shove her "cuteness" in your face until it becomes repulsive.
General Stupidity - I don't want to go back and make a list of all the little things that jumped out at me as silly or stupid, but suffice it to say there was a hell of a lot. The general premise behind Alfheim Online, which makes no sense from a game design standpoint, is one. The sheer melodrama in ALO despite the removed threat of death is another. As is how Kirito and Leafa do not recognize each other. And also the way the show assumes we're going to just buy personalities being uploaded online or AIs gaining sentience. And plot contrivances like the keycard.
chicagocubsfan
Member
Man can't wait until Saturday. The first episode of Blue Exorcist is one of the best first anime episodes I can remember. Haven't seen how the dub is either.
Pitch Black II however is amazing. Not the same soda, not the same content.
"Eh, it's not that bad."
I had forgotten about DST. And checking on it now, the Tumblr does say
Guns. Lots of guns. Black Lagoon, March 28th. Dont miss it.
Although I assume they mean March 29.
Guns. Lots of guns. Black Lagoon, March 28th. Dont miss it.
Although I assume they mean March 29.
lazybones18
Banned
You say "Genocide", I say Natural Selection. Kayaba clearly wanted to impress Darwin and eliminate those who were unfit to survive in a fucking video game of all places. I say Mission Accomplished.
Thank you Based Kayuba for thinning the herd...so to speak
Thank you Based Kayuba for thinning the herd...so to speak
I do feel bad for Sugu actually. Can't help your feelings even if they are abhorrent.
I also don't mind that the over the top villain is a rapist, par for the course when you are that BWAHAHAHA.
I also didn't mind the timeskips at all as it was a progression though I wished they had gone over the deterioration of their mental conditions as this game of death continued.
Other than that I agree with what was written above.
I also don't mind that the over the top villain is a rapist, par for the course when you are that BWAHAHAHA.
I also didn't mind the timeskips at all as it was a progression though I wished they had gone over the deterioration of their mental conditions as this game of death continued.
Other than that I agree with what was written above.
Doctor Decimate
Member
my thing was that they clearly wanted to create a sense of claustrophobia by giving us absolutely no glimpses of the outside world.......and then we go deep into timeskip country. you can't have both, and the result was just raising a lot of questions that went unanswered for too long.
BassForever
Member
Yeah SAO seems to feel the need to shit all over Sugu every chance it gets
lazybones18
Banned
Who doesn't love to shit on middle-school kids?
BassForever
Member
Middle school is like the shittiest part of school no reason to make their lives worse.
Also how is dst going to work? They're skipping soul eater and naruto one week?
AdventureMike
Member
GMN put together a fantastic post. Well thought out and written. I wish I could give you positive feedback as if it were the Buy/Sell/Trade thread for good arguments.
BassForever
Member
... So that means they're skipping Soul Eater and Naruto? I can live with that
lazybones18
Banned
chicagocubsfan
Member
And add GTO to one of their slots.
I mean the english dub has Steve Blum as Onizuka, so it fits.
Nice read GMN.
Jack should stay and we should cull the snoozefest that is the Bleach/Naruto hour.
Jack should stay and we should cull the snoozefest that is the Bleach/Naruto hour.
chicagocubsfan
Member
Hey Shippuden actually gets good.
I already railed on SAO so I won't go into depth but I did want to add to GMN's comments about Deus Ex Machina's in the series. The 'best' thing about them is when they are employed. Something terrible always happens and then the DEM is deployed. That in and of itself isn't a bad thing except when the terrible things could have been prevented by Kirito by deploying the DEM sooner when he knew he had it. The dual wield reveal, the fact he is SUPER high level and getting off his lazy ass to finish the game. It is comical how many people Kirito was almost directly involved in killing.
In other anime news:
I really hope you all get to watch this. Unfortunately every episode brings me a step closer to HOW ARE THEY GOING TO CENSOR THIS?!?!?
In other anime news:
Thanks heliosRAzi in the KlK thread
I really hope you all get to watch this. Unfortunately every episode brings me a step closer to HOW ARE THEY GOING TO CENSOR THIS?!?!?
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
there is an actual real life chance you may be married and have one or more children by the time that episode airs on american TV.
Dr.Palutena
Member
Well at least the manga is almost over for reals , my kids and I will be reading one piece though
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Mommy, what the hell is One Piece already?!?!
Dr.Palutena
Member
No driving filler episode no deal on watching DBZ/Kai
It's once again time to play "One Piece is how old again?!"
When One Piece debuted in Jump...
Titanic was sweeping the world with its 3 hour love story about one of history's greatest tragedies.
Will Smith becomes a major movie star from fighting aliens and "making this look good"
Joel Schumacher completely embarrasses Batman, pisses off fanboys everywhere and puts Batman movies on ice.
The Simpsons was only on Season 8.
Japanese kids were tuning into Denji Sentai Megaranger, which was adapted into Power Rangers IN SPAAAAAACE
Japanese kids that read One Piece when it started out already have kids of their own.
I was 7.
When One Piece debuted in Jump...
Titanic was sweeping the world with its 3 hour love story about one of history's greatest tragedies.
Will Smith becomes a major movie star from fighting aliens and "making this look good"
Joel Schumacher completely embarrasses Batman, pisses off fanboys everywhere and puts Batman movies on ice.
The Simpsons was only on Season 8.
Japanese kids were tuning into Denji Sentai Megaranger, which was adapted into Power Rangers IN SPAAAAAACE
Japanese kids that read One Piece when it started out already have kids of their own.
I was 7.
No taco bell? How small is this town?
The best blue soda.
...That's green, though.
Well, a very light blueish-green. But still green!
Voltage works, though.
Dr.Palutena
Member
Omg one piece started when I was in kindergarten and now I'm graduating university ...
Same.
It's funny, the magazine also had Yu-Gi-Oh, Yu Yu Hakusho, and DBZ in it, stuff that was already established on TV, and One Piece was the series I gravitated to the most.
Even back then I found Naruto kind of dumb. I thought the whole "turning into a naked lady" thing was weird and I didn't like Sasuke and Sakura.
Good thing I dodged a bullet on that series... *glares at recent manga chapters*
Dr.Palutena
Member
That's nothing. Look at Berserk's start date.
- Status