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[Crocodile]

So because this was intended for a teenage audience I can't comment on it with a critical eye as an adult? Does that suddenly make my criticism less valid for some reason? It doesn't matter who the intended audience was in Japan; I'm looking at this from the cultural perspective of an American which is fine considering this is going to air on ADULT swim.

this is always a weird defense because it basically says it's totally fine for grown-ass men to draw sexy pictures of teenage girls because they intend for most of their audience to be teenagers.

I don't think (or I at least hope) Bass was saying such shows were above reproach but he was just explaining WHY the characters tend to be teenagers. The same reason why Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, My Hero Academia, Twilight, Hunger Games, Harry Potter, etc. all star teenager characters. They are made to be primarily consumed by teenagers so the main characters are teenagers. That's all he was saying (to my understanding).

Fanservice can have purpose. Just watch Me!Me!Me!

Outside of that, I can easily ignore it if I like other stuff in the work. No Game No Life is a great series, but it has some damn questionable fanservice at points.

A) Me!Me!Me! is one of the most fanservice ladden things I've seen in some while but it wouldn't work if it wasn't a boob-a-palooza. It's actually quite good. I suggest people go see it if they haven't already. It's NSFW though. Also be sure to watch the other Animator Expo shorts as well. Most of them are EXCELLENT!

B) NGNL seemed like a show that might be fun with its referential humor and stuff but when I heard there were 11 year old panty shots I decided to not even bother watching the show. There were too many good anime/cartoons in 2014 for me to waste a time with a show that at best would be "If you ignore this, its really good". I may have missed out but so be it :/

 

[Man God]

If you ignore this, it's pretty mediocre has been holding back anime for around a decade now. Gotta blame the market though when only mega Otakus pay for anything.

 

[BatDan]

*sees the Attack on Titan in Maplestory thread*
Welp, I'm officially sick of this series.

If you ignore this, it's pretty mediocre has been holding back anime for around a decade now. Gotta blame the market though when only mega Otakus pay for anything.

Perhaps the industry should make an effort to reach out to the West and spread out further. Allow the creation of more artistic series with higher budgets, high-scale adventures and beautiful introspective pieces.
Can you imagine One Piece if it had a Western show budget? Oooh man.
Through this, they wouldn't have to create pandering trash with incest and moe all over to fund bigger projects.

At least Toei doesn't do that... they just shove toys down kids throats.

 

[Crash Station]

B) NGNL seemed like a show that might be fun with its referential humor and stuff but when I heard there were 11 year old panty shots I decided to not even bother watching the show. There were too many good anime/cartoons in 2014 for me to waste a time with a show that at best would be "If you ignore this, its really good". I may have missed out but so be it :/

Well yeah, that's not a mindset I would blame anyone for. It's just not something that turned me off enough to not watch because pretty much everything else about it was made for me. It sucks because I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to most anime fans if not for a few panty shots.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

it's prevelant in japanese animes because there's a lot of shitty animus that get made for the sole purpose of being soft core porn and to sell figurines. It's more common then in American cartoons but I feel that's more due to America's awful idea on sexuality and sex rather then it being bad or awful.

I'd say it's bad when it sort of "interrupts" the story, which is what tends to happen because you can't just have cleavage, you have to have tits the size of heads and you have to have comical jiggling right in the center of the frame. Animators are capable of keeping it in their pants for the most part, they just don't seem to want to.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Both are under eighteen according to official ages given. Do either of those look like ANYBODY you knew back in high school? Certainly not the high school I went to. Many anime characters fall in this range in which they are in their late teens but don't really look or act like any actual human teenager. To those who saw KLK, if Ryuko and Satsuki were aged 5+ years would that certainly have made the show ok to you? Their ages seemed irrelevant in my mind and if they were older, the parts of KLK I did find uncomfortable (Gucci alluded to one) would have been equally as uncomfortable to me.

I mean I do personally do find it frustrating that so many anime protagonists/antagonists are stuck in their late teens and early twenties - expanding the age range would do wonders in the type of stores that could be told and how the characters could be written. While I recognize that is because of the target demos of most of these products I would love to see a general increase in age of many anime characters. However, many anime/cartoon teenagers don't really look anything like human teenagers. As such, that knee-jerk "but they're minors" disgust that makes total sense in real life seems oddly applied to some anime. Does that make sense to anybody? I'm certainly not try to be an apologist for anybody or anything but it feels like there are so many legit reasons to be upset over sexual fanserivce (framing & male gaze, poorly used humor, how it can rob the characters of agency if misapplied, creepy voyeurism,etc.) that harping over their age when they don't look or act like actual sixteen year-olds seems weird to me :/

You bring up excellent thought-provoking points as usual, croc. I've never actually sat down and thought to myself "If ______ was older would I feel differently about the fanservice?" Right now my gut is telling me that yes, I would find myself more receptive if say, Yoko from GL was listed as 23 instead of 14. I guess in a way the age is irrelevant but I still have a mental barrier up that makes me grossed out whenever an underaged character is portrayed in a sexual manner, even if the original target audience is under 18. I look at things from an American perspective where many of these shows for kids/teens in Japan would be viewed as adult content here, especially if aired uncut/unedited.

 

[Jarate]

*sees the Attack on Titan in Maplestory thread*
Welp, I'm officially sick of this series.



Perhaps the industry should make an effort to reach out to the West and spread out further. Allow the creation of more artistic series with higher budgets, high-scale adventures and beautiful introspective pieces.
Can you imagine One Piece if it had a Western show budget? Oooh man.
Through this, they wouldn't have to create pandering trash with incest and moe all over to fund bigger projects.

At least Toei doesn't do that... they just shove toys down kids throats.

Western show budgets aren;t really all that much higher then Japanese budgets. Most western shows dont run every week and also generally require as much detail and sharpness that a lot of western animation has.

Shows like Space Dandy, which act a lot like a western show in that it didnt run every week had supremely good animation, probably better then anything the west did for that year.

Incest and moe aren't really that prevelant in most shows.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

This is something that has been bugging me from a logic perspective is why people are upset and go "oh god that fictional character is 16, that fanservice is disgusting" as long as the setting is fantastical enough. It's obvious why this can be gross and problematic for real life individuals (especially if it goes anything beyond just attraction) but when it comes to a lot of anime, the age seems less relevant. Like take a look at these characters:

Both are under eighteen according to official ages given. Do either of those look like ANYBODY you knew back in high school? Certainly not the high school I went to. Many anime characters fall in this range in which they are in their late teens but don't really look or act like any actual human teenager. To those who saw KLK, if Ryuko and Satsuki were aged 5+ years would that certainly have made the show ok to you? Their ages seemed irrelevant in my mind and if they were older, the parts of KLK I did find uncomfortable (Gucci alluded to one) would have been equally as uncomfortable to me.

I mean I do personally do find it frustrating that so many anime protagonists/antagonists are stuck in their late teens and early twenties - expanding the age range would do wonders in the type of stores that could be told and how the characters could be written. While I recognize that is because of the target demos of most of these products I would love to see a general increase in age of many anime characters. However, many anime/cartoon teenagers don't really look anything like human teenagers. As such, that knee-jerk "but they're minors" disgust that makes total sense in real life seems oddly applied to some anime. Does that make sense to anybody? I'm certainly not try to be an apologist for anybody or anything but it feels like there are so many legit reasons to be upset over sexual fanserivce (framing & male gaze, poorly used humor, how it can rob the characters of agency if misapplied, creepy voyeurism,etc.) that harping over their age when they don't look or act like actual sixteen year-olds seems weird to me :/



This here is the most important thing. Not all fanservice of the sexual variety is created the same. Some shows frame it and display it in a way that I personally find legitimately disgusting, aggravating or eye-roll inducing. Some shows frame it in such a way that I can easily ignore or I can appreciate it. I don't really find much use in approaching the subject in a broad manner. A show by show basis is really the only way to approach the subject. I will say though, while a show that just has some, even a good deal, of sexual fanservice can be quite good in legitimate respects, a show whose primarily or only purpose is to peddle fanservice is rarely good :/

I agree that age is just a number in anime a lot of the time, but it kind of depends on the context. When we're talking about "teenagers" in fantasy land, whatever. But when we're talking about "teenagers" in high school, then it becomes a bit of an issue because you're openly playing up the teenage aspect. Then again schoolgirl outfits are a pretty common fetish across the board so what do I know?

 

[Jarate]

I'd say it's bad when it sort of "interrupts" the story, which is what tends to happen because you can't just have cleavage, you have to have tits the size of heads and you have to have comical jiggling right in the center of the frame. Animators are capable of keeping it in their pants for the most part, they just don't seem to want to.

Ive never really seen a show that has had this problem, but then again I dont watch a lot of anime

 

[Zonic]

Incest and moe aren't really that prevelant in most shows.

Same for that whole "SHE'S A DEMON THAT LOOKS [low number] BUT IS ACTUALLY [stupidly high number] YEARS OLD!" thing I see thrown around at times.

Like, I can only think of Fire Emblem: Awakening & Dance in the Vampire Bund (& even then, from what I understand, the female actually HAS an adult form, but doesn't use it often because....I don't know because I don't think I want to read the series) that actually do that. But I guess 2 examples = EVERYWHERE in the internet's eyes sometimes.

 

[Man God]

Little girls who are actually old as fuck?

Toonami has aired a show with that. More if you count ASA/old Toonami.

 

[Zonic]

More of when people see said character in an outfit not suited for someone of that size/age.

Ive never really seen a show that has had this problem, but then again I dont watch a lot of anime

I'd say We, Without Wings had flat-out moments where it was like LULZ LET'S STOP THE PLOT AND HAVE THE GIRLS DO FANSERVICE FOR YA.

It's also one of the very rare anime where I honestly felt I really disliked after watching it. Which was amazing because I've tolerated a ton of stuff.

Edit: Oh, anime based off eroge. THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Ive never really seen a show that has had this problem, but then again I dont watch a lot of anime

I hate to keep bringing it back to SAO, but for Toonami shows it's kind of the best example; you just have ass and boob shots used in ways that become distracting at times, mostly in the second half.

 

[Jarate]

I hate to keep bringing it back to SAO, but for Toonami shows it's kind of the best example; you just have ass and boob shots used in ways that become distracting at times, mostly in the second half.

SAO has much more problems besides the boobs and ass shots though. SAO without the T&A is still a really bad show

 

[Crocodile]

You bring up excellent thought-provoking points as usual, croc. I've never actually sat down and thought to myself "If ______ was older would I feel differently about the fanservice?" Right now my gut is telling me that yes, I would find myself more receptive if say, Yoko from GL was listed as 23 instead of 14. I guess in a way the age is irrelevant but I still have a mental barrier up that makes me grossed out whenever an underaged character is portrayed in a sexual manner, even if the original target audience is under 18. I look at things from an American perspective where many of these shows for kids/teens in Japan would be viewed as adult content here, especially if aired uncut/unedited.

Different people have different tolerances so I guess I can't really fault anybody for it - I'll try to respect it. It just doesn't seem logical to me since most times it just comes down to fudging some numbers on a character profile on a website or something. What they did to Asuna in SAO would not be any more ok to me if she was a college graduate or older As long as we are clearly dealing with MEN and WOMEN characters (not boys and girls) if feels pedantic to me more often than not. As I said, there are so many legit reasons to be annoyed/frustrated/turned off by sexual fanservice that an arbitrary number in the context of most anime seem so low on the totem pole of stuff to be bothered by. To me at least.

If you ignore this, it's pretty mediocre has been holding back anime for around a decade now. Gotta blame the market though when only mega Otakus pay for anything.

Sure but between Space Dandy, Ping Pong, Shirobako, Gundam Build Fighters, Barakamon, Jojo, etc. there was no shortage of shows in 2014 I could recommend or enjoy without a "If you ignore this....." caveat. If you look hard enough, the gold is there.

Western show budgets aren;t really all that much higher then Japanese budgets. Most western shows dont run every week and also generally require as much detail and sharpness that a lot of western animation has.

Shows like Space Dandy, which act a lot like a western show in that it didnt run every week had supremely good animation, probably better then anything the west did for that year.

Incest and moe aren't really that prevelant in most shows.

It's less about the budget and more about the production schedules (though most Western shows do have higher budgets than most anime).

 

[Doctor Decimate]

SAO has much more problems besides the boobs and ass shots though. SAO without the T&A is still a really bad show

of course. but it's a pretty good example of why fanservice in anime generally sucks.

 

[Crocodile]

On an unrelated note, people should REALLY check out Rolling Girls. It's streaming on Funi's site. First two episodes have been super sweet.

Same for that whole "SHE'S A DEMON THAT LOOKS [low number] BUT IS ACTUALLY [stupidly high number] YEARS OLD!" thing I see thrown around at times.

Like, I can only think of Fire Emblem: Awakening & Dance in the Vampire Bund (& even then, from what I understand, the female actually HAS an adult form, but doesn't use it often because....I don't know because I don't think I want to read the series) that actually do that. But I guess 2 examples = EVERYWHERE in the internet's eyes sometimes.

It was funny as a joke but its annoying how some people like to pretend that describes ALL anime nowadays or some shit. Its like people aren't even trying

SAO has much more problems besides the boobs and ass shots though. SAO without the T&A is still a really bad show

That stuff didn't help though. Like there was a lingering ass shot on screen during a murder investigation. How are we supposed to take that stuff seriously?

 

[Jarate]

That stuff didn't help though. Like there was a lingering ass shot on screen during a murder investigation. How are we supposed to take that stuff seriously?

How are we supposed to take SAO seriously at all? lol

 

[Raxus]

of course. but it's a pretty good example of why fanservice in anime generally sucks.

They didn't have to exploit women at every turn they got but all the unnecessary ass shots, tentacle rape, and underage panty shots shows they really went that extra mile

Spoiler

to further destroy anime.

 

[Zonic]

On an unrelated note, people should REALLY check out Rolling Girls. It's streaming on Funi's site. First two episodes have been super sweet.

Guess I should get a ROLLING START on seeing this. I think one or two other people here suggested it.

 

[Man God]

Guess I should get a ROLLING START on seeing this. I think one or two other people here suggested it.

ROLLING STAR?

 

[Jarate]

If ya'll want an anime with no fanservice and really deep adult characters and themes, ya'll should watch Ping Pong

Why give SAO attention when the king is already here

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Different people have different tolerances so I guess I can't really fault anybody for it - I'll try to respect it. It just doesn't seem logical to me since most times it just comes down to fudging some numbers on a character profile on a website or something. What they did to Asuna in SAO would not be any more ok to me if she was a college graduate or older As long as we are clearly dealing with MEN and WOMEN characters (not boys and girls) if feels pedantic to me more often than not. As I said, there are so many legit reasons to be annoyed/frustrated/turned off by sexual fanservice that an arbitrary number in the context of most anime seem so low on the totem pole of stuff to be bothered by. To me at least.

Like GMN alluded to there's a difference between age in a fantastical setting and something set in real life. So yeah, maybe it is silly for me to be weirded out by 14 year old Yoko having huge breasts hanging out of a skimpy bikini top while rocking unbuttoned booty shorts, but there's a difference between that and KLK which takes place in a high school. Ryuko's fanservice is creepy because we have a grown man taking teens and putting them in pervy outfits/awkward situations just to appeal to some otaku fapping in their basement. I don't buy the excuse that the look of the suit is integral to the story that you see thrown around by some fans.

As for SAO, I wasn't turned off because Asuna is a teen, I was turned off because a person was getting raped. Age didn't matter, that's just an issue that was handled poorly by the series. I'm not against the portrayal of mature subject matter in anime, I just feel like it needs to be handled responsibly rather than as a lazy plot device.

 

[Jarate]

is SAO the hitler of Anime where everything always comes back to it in some way?

 

[bigkrev]

I feel the same about Fanservice as I do about sex comedies targeted at 12-14 year olds (like American Pie, Superbad, ect). They are great when you are a tween/early teen, and then just feel really embarrassing and sad once you mature, and make you feel like a creep for having ever liked them

 

[Grexeno]

Kill la Kill brings activity back to the thread and it hasn't even started yet.

 

[Crash Station]

Same for that whole "SHE'S A DEMON THAT LOOKS [low number] BUT IS ACTUALLY [stupidly high number] YEARS OLD!" thing I see thrown around at times.

Like, I can only think of Fire Emblem: Awakening & Dance in the Vampire Bund (& even then, from what I understand, the female actually HAS an adult form, but doesn't use it often because....I don't know because I don't think I want to read the series) that actually do that. But I guess 2 examples = EVERYWHERE in the internet's eyes sometimes.

Let's see, there's Negima and....

I know I've seen more, but that's the only one that comes to mind right now.

 

[Man God]

The fourth waifu in Tenchi Muyo GXP, for one.

 

[B-Dubs]

is SAO the hitler of Anime where everything always comes back to it in some way?

It's just such a horrible show that it makes a good benchmark for horrible composition and writing.

 

[Grexeno]

I started Ocarina of Time again because I've lost control of my life.

 

[Jarate]

I started Ocarina of Time again because I've lost control of my life.

play Earthbound instead

 

[Moaradin]

Kill la Kill brings activity back to the thread and it hasn't even started yet.

Episode 1 is gonna be a bloodbath.

 

[Seda]

I'm pretty excited for Majora's Mask 3D. Ocarina 3D is basically an improvement in every way (unless you hate the slightl artstyle differences).

I was at first a bit iffy on the saving changes, but then I realized I rarely have an issue where I need to load a save so I don't really care about it.


Im also curious how hectic this is going to be. Sword Art had us going at a ridiculous pace and that was like at 2AM

 

[Crocodile]

Like GMN alluded to there's a difference between age in a fantastical setting and something set in real life. So yeah, maybe it is silly for me to be weirded out by 14 year old Yoko having huge breasts hanging out of a skimpy bikini top while rocking unbuttoned booty shorts, but there's a difference between that and KLK which takes place in a high school. Ryuko's fanservice is creepy because we have a grown man taking teens and putting them in pervy outfits/awkward situations just to appeal to some otaku fapping in their basement. I don't buy the excuse that the look of the suit is integral to the story that you see thrown around by some fans.

Perhaps? Not a bad point. I feel though I'd hardly call that place a "school" and the show only spends like half the show there. It felt it was a "school" as an arbitrary setting, it could have just as easily been a small city (it kind of already was) or a feudal kingdom or something else. The world of KLK still felt pretty "fantastical" to me but that's just my opinion. With regards to the suit, it really feel like they were making it a plot point early on. Similar to how drills are a major metaphor in TTGL, it seemed like clothes were supposed to be a similar thing in KLK. However, that essentially gets dropped due to shitty writing :/ Major ball dropped IMO.

As for SAO, I wasn't turned off because Asuna is a teen, I was turned off because a person was getting raped. Age didn't matter, that's just an issue that was handled poorly by the series. I'm not against the portrayal of mature subject matter in anime, I just feel like it needs to be handled responsibly rather than as a lazy plot device.

Oh I agree and understand. I was just saying I don't think changing her age would have made it any less awful - it was the fact that it was so fucking awful that made it bad, not that she was young. SAO handled that issue, and most others, with the subtly of a cracked out elephant with weights on its legs :/

is SAO the hitler of Anime where everything always comes back to it in some way?

There are worse shows but its popular enough and seen enough that its a good reference point for shit not to do

I feel the same about Fanservice as I do about sex comedies targeted at 12-14 year olds (like American Pie, Superbad, ect). They are great when you are a tween/early teen, and then just feel really embarrassing and sad once you mature, and make you feel like a creep for having ever liked them

I never liked the American Pie series but I haven't seen Superbad in ages. I wonder if I'd still like it.

Kill la Kill brings activity back to the thread and it hasn't even started yet.

KLK couldn't save anime but it did save the Toonami thread #Kappa

 

[Man God]

It's going to be something.

 

[Grexeno]

Im also curious how hectic this is going to be. Sword Art had us going at a ridiculous pace and that was like at 2AM

I'm expecting basically this.

 

[Jarate]

KLK will be hectic for two weeks like AoT and then people will know how mediocre it is and leave

 

[Gucci Messiah]

This thread is gonna explode when KLK airs

 

[Raxus]

I think we can all agree the OT for February has to be DON'T LOSE YOUR WAY

 

[Zonic]

|OT| Kill la Kill Made Its Way Somehow

 

[Grexeno]

I think we can all agree the OT for February has to be DON'T LOSE YOUR WAY

No

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I'm pretty excited for Majora's Mask 3D. Ocarina 3D is basically an improvement in every way (unless you hate the slightl artstyle differences).

I was at first a bit iffy on the saving changes, but then I realized I rarely have an issue where I need to load a save so I don't really care about it.

It'll be nice to not have to consult a strategy guide for a ton of stuff

This thread is gonna explode when KLK airs

Neo-ToonamiGAF is about to EXPLODE

 

[Raxus]

Neo-ToonamiGAF is about to EXPLODE

Unclephil.jpeg

 

[Seda]

Right, now taking title suggestions for Feb15 OT.

 

[Grexeno]

Toonami |Feb15| DON'T LOSE YOUR CLOTH....oh, too late

 

[Zonic]

|OT| Kill la Kill Pays The Toonami Bill la Bills

 

[Gucci Messiah]

|OT| Gucci was wrong

 

[Jarate]

Toonami |Feb15| The titillating debutt of Kill La Kill

 

[Grexeno]

Toonami |Feb15| The titillating debutt of Kill La Kill

Yes

 

[Schadenfreude]

Wow. You guys are having a serious conversation? And not a single gif in sight? Who are you people and when did you replace my normal ToonamiGAF?