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Toonami |JulAug17| Most Definitely the Work of an Enemy Stand

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S

Slamtastic

Member
Zonic said:
There's such a thing to me as too MUCH freedom in a game, & this is a good example.
Click to expand...

I'm the exact opposite, in that with my limited time to play and limited funds to buy new games, more and more I feel as though if the game isn't reactive or is lacking in choices, that is to say the gameplay is merely a pass/fail test of skills to advance a sequence of events that is fixed, the same person to person, and could be laid out in a summary on Wikipedia, I find myself content to watch a let's play.

The "watercooler" concept where you can get together with friends and discuss you experience with a game, and every person has a different story because of freedom to do different things, change the order of things, random factors in the design, etc. is becoming more and more important to me in single player games, so I can feel like my personal playing the game actually affected it and means something, rather than just being a test of skills that achieves pressing resume on a paused narrative.

That and details that help immerse me.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Completely agree about the "water cooler" concept, it's why it's been clicking with so many people. Everyone has their own unique experience or silly story which makes discussions about the game so interesting. I absolutely will not deny that. I also accept that when you have less time/money, you want something that's more bang for your buck.

I'm not saying take freedom out of games completely, that'd be ridiculous. I'm rather glad that Super Mario Odyssey is returning to the 64/Sunshine structure of "collect the stars in the order YOU want". I'm just saying for someone like me, when there's a map that's too big or no sense of direction for me to follow, it works against me & my mentality.

Same thing happened with Minecraft. For a few hours, I was rather enjoying the freedom (& I still understand why it's so damn popular, it's basically digital legos allowing kids to express their creativity), but after some time, I couldn't help but question "WHY am I doing this? What am I suppose to be doing?", but I also acknowledge that I am not the creative type who cares for creating characters, levels, etc.
 
C

caliph95

Member
Zonic said:
Completely agree about the "water cooler" concept, it's why it's been clicking with so many people. Everyone has their own unique experience or silly story which makes discussions about the game so interesting. I absolutely will not deny that. I also accept that when you have less time/money, you want something that's more bang for your buck.

I'm not saying take freedom out of games completely, that'd be ridiculous. I'm rather glad that Super Mario Odyssey is returning to the 64/Sunshine structure of "collect the stars in the order YOU want". I'm just saying for someone like me, when there's a map that's too big or no sense of direction for me to follow, it works against me & my mentality.

Same thing happened with Minecraft. For a few hours, I was rather enjoying the freedom (& I still understand why it's so damn popular, it's basically digital legos allowing kids to express their creativity), but after some time, I couldn't help but question "WHY am I doing this? What am I suppose to be doing?", but I also acknowledge that I am not the creative type who cares for creating characters, levels, etc.
Click to expand...
It's why for me personally I don't care to play the Bethesda games after Skyrim and imo preferred Witcher and Mass effect

It's great when I have nothing else though but after a while the freedom makes it feel unengaging after a.while
a.while
 
D

Doctor Decimate

Member
I like Breath of the Wild a lot but also I'm getting sitting here in the Gerudo desert after doing 2 dungeons and struggling a bit to wanna continue.

I explored a ton and it took quite a while before I felt bogged down by repetition and stuff, but I still got to that point eventually; I think some variety would've helped a lot. I think the world itself is REALLY well-designed but also fuck Korok seeds for the most part and the enemy encampments because both got old real quick. The encampments lacked variety and much of a reward so I started just avoiding them outright, and the Korok seeds began to feel like pretty trivial challenges. The reward itself isn't bad for what it gets you eventually, but there's only so many times I can do the apple tree thing before I stop bothering. Some of them are more unique (or at least a couple seemed that way when I encountered them the first time) but they ultimately ended up few and far between.

So I guess I get where Zonic is coming from to a point but also I played quite a bit and feel like I easily got my money's worth so
wtzgU.gif


It's tough because I feel the size of the world and the amount of negative space it has are huge positives for that feeling of exploration but also it must be really hard to populate that kind of world with unique challenges.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Doctor Decimate said:
I like Breath of the Wild a lot but also I'm getting sitting here in the Gerudo desert after doing 2 dungeons and struggling a bit to wanna continue.

I explored a ton and it took quite a while before I felt bogged down by repetition and stuff, but I still got to that point eventually; I think some variety would've helped a lot. I think the world itself is REALLY well-designed but also fuck Korok seeds for the most part and the enemy encampments because both got old real quick. The encampments lacked variety and much of a reward so I started just avoiding them outright, and the Korok seeds began to feel like pretty trivial challenges. The reward itself isn't bad for what it gets you eventually, but there's only so many times I can do the apple tree thing before I stop bothering. Some of them are more unique (or at least a couple seemed that way when I encountered them the first time) but they ultimately ended up few and far between.

So I guess I get where Zonic is coming from to a point but also I played quite a bit and feel like I easily got my money's worth so
wtzgU.gif
Click to expand...

Honestly, it took me until my third play through but I got there as well. I'm going to give it a few months and go back again for the final DLC though.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
That was another thing, I lost the motivation to fight enemies unless I had to because the reward was usually not worth it & I'd rather save my weapons for when I truly need them for a shrine or a tower surrounded by enemies.

I guess the major factor was that sense of discover was gone & it was becoming less of "OH BOY, I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT I FIND NEXT!" & more of a chore with "uuugghhh, where's the next shrine so I can upgrade my stamina...oh god, I gotta go all the way over THERE to get something?? Where the hell do I find this thing for this person?"

It feels kind of weird having these complaints when my first & possibly favorite Zelda was Wind Waker, which did allow you to explore other places aside from where you needed to go next, but still gave me a sense of direction with "okay, I can go here & explore, but I know this is where I have to travel to progress the story/get the next item/etc." I enjoyed going to each part of the map to discover new islands & see if I could access them yet. It was an open world, but not too big where it felt impossible to check out everything.

I guess what it comes down to is simply this: I'm an achiever who wants to complete the game's goals, not an explorer out for a sense of discovery, though I fully understand the appeal of wanting to explore a game's world. & with BotW, it gave explorers a huge map with a ton of things to discover, hence why it got so popular.

After over 15 years of gaming, I've come to understand what works for me & what doesn't, but I also do my best to see the appeal from a different perspective, which is why I still see BotW as a good game & get why people want future titles to take elements from it as to not go back to being formulaic.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
I think they mentioned something about the fact they'd split each part into its own release without the bonus storyboard book + art cards?
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Or rather, I think they'll release S1 without the LE content, i.e. the packaging, book, etc.

& as mentioned, Amazon has it for $45 at the moment, which is a rather decent price considering I spent $60 on RightStuf just so I could get the bandanna.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Damn it, Crunchyroll, don't run the exact same ad TWICE in the same ad break, especially when all 3 commercials were for the exact same product/service.

Once my cable's gone, I'll probably get VRV just so I can have both Crunchyroll & Funimation together. Just waiting for my dad or his wife to give me the damn password to their DirecTV so I can access the Toonami stream & not pay $30/mo for PS Vue.
 
C

Crimson_Echidna

Banned
Zonic said:
Damn it, Crunchyroll, don't run the exact same ad TWICE in the same ad break, especially when all 3 commercials were for the exact same product/service.

Once my cable's gone, I'll probably get VRV just so I can have both Crunchyroll & Funimation together. Just waiting for my dad or his wife to give me the damn password to their DirecTV so I can access the Toonami stream & not pay $30/mo for PS Vue.
Click to expand...

Just know with VRV you don't get access to Funimation's full catalog. They're missing some things like the Dragon Ball dubs and Hellsing Ultimate.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Crimson_Echidna said:
Just know with VRV you don't get access to Funimation's full catalog. They're missing some things like the Dragon Ball dubs and Hellsing Ultimate.
Click to expand...
Ooooh, okay, so it's only what VRV itself has, it's not something that you can sign up for & then log into Funimation or Crunchyroll's site like how I can log into Adult Swim via PS Vue or your cable/satellite provider. Thank you for that info, I was trying to figure out what exactly I was allowed to watch via VRV.

I might just get Crunchyroll then or just deal with the ads.
 
C

Crimson_Echidna

Banned
Zonic said:
Ooooh, okay, so it's only what VRV itself has, it's not something that you can sign up for & then log into Funimation or Crunchyroll's site like how I can log into Adult Swim via PS Vue or your cable/satellite provider. Thank you for that info, I was trying to figure out what exactly I was allowed to watch via VRV.

I might just get Crunchyroll then or just deal with the ads.
Click to expand...

You can account link your VRV and Crunchyroll accounts, but with Funimation you're limited to just the series that Funimation sub-licensed over to VRV. That said, they have majority of Funimation's notable dubs and all of their simuldubs, but it was the occasional searches for things like Hellsing Ultimate and Trigun not showing up that made me realize that they don't get everything.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Gotcha. Funimation is more of a bonus subscription for me since it'd be only $3 more than just getting Crunchyroll. As long as I can access simulcast (I don't think there's a lot I'd watch simuldub), then I'm content.

For some reason, I keep having this mentality of "boy, I wish I had someone to share my account with to make it feel as though it's worth paying for the subscription." Maybe it's due to all the years I've been groupwatching Toonami with you guys.
 
C

cntr

Banned
toonami showdown stuff:

Aside from the obvious stuff, I think it makes sense why AoT isn't as huge of a thing anymore.

AoT is the kind of thing teenagers are into, right? That's the age where you get into the edgy shit, and that clearly ended up being a big part of AoT's original demographic.

But that was four years ago. Most of those fans probably now think of Attack on Titan as "that embarrassing edgy trash I watched as a kid", whatever the actual quality of S2 ended up being. And S2 wasn't picked up by the current batch of teenagers, so...
 
T

TheSun

Member
cntr said:
toonami showdown stuff:

Aside from the obvious stuff, I think it makes sense why AoT isn't as huge of a thing anymore.

AoT is the kind of thing teenagers are into, right? That's the age where you get into the edgy shit, and that clearly ended up being a big part of AoT's original demographic.

But that was four years ago. Most of those fans probably now think of Attack on Titan as "that embarrassing edgy trash I watched as a kid", whatever the actual quality of S2 ended up being. And S2 wasn't picked up by the current batch of teenagers, so...
Click to expand...

Yeah, judging by reactions online and out, as well as the biggest AoT stan in my school, your assessment seems about right.

Personally I couldn't get into it, the humans suck.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
bigkrev said:
Ready for a molten Hot take?

I never *got* King of the Hill or understood why it was funny. Ever. Always just seemed like a bland show anytime I watched it.
Click to expand...
As a kid, I thought the same thing, especially when I was watching it right after Simpsons. Now, I think it works because I realize it's meant to be more grounded, but I can see why it's not everyone's type of comedy. It's very low energy most of the time, especially compared to Simpsons.

I tried watching some of the later/last seasons (mainly when they switched to digital animation & introduced Lucky, who added....not much from what I saw), but it wasn't doing it for me, especially when some episodes just seemed a bit too mean spirited.

Meanwhile, I discovered that there's Tokyo Ghoul funko pop figures, & one of Kaneki being in his ghoul mode is exclusive to Hot Topic. That....is a perfect summary of the series in one figure.
 
M

Mizerman

Member
Zonic said:
As a kid, I thought the same thing, especially when I was watching it right after Simpsons. Now, I think it works because I realize it's meant to be more grounded, but I can see why it's not everyone's type of comedy. It's very low energy most of the time, especially compared to Simpsons.

I tried watching some of the later/last seasons (mainly when they switched to digital animation & introduced Lucky, who added....not much from what I saw), but it wasn't doing it for me, especially when some episodes just seemed a bit too mean spirited.

Meanwhile, I discovered that there's Tokyo Ghoul funko pop figures, & one of Kaneki being in his ghoul mode is exclusive to Hot Topic. That....is a perfect summary of the series in one figure.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the later season of KotH were of lesser quality, especially when Lucky became a regular.
 
C

Crimson_Echidna

Banned
So I'm 30+ episodes into Gundam Wing now and I'm realizing that despite all the marketing, the 5 pilots are barely ever on screen together at the same time.

TheSun said:
Yeah, judging by reactions online and out, as well as the biggest AoT stan in my school, your assessment seems about right.

Personally I couldn't get into it, the humans suck.
Click to expand...


I think too that the ship has sailed on the whole "speculator interest" from non-anime fans.

That and you got more people actively streaming now and cutting the cable, so the people who were die-hard on watching the series just did it through Crunchyroll or Hulu.

I think Samurai Jack's success proves there's still a potential audience willing to tune in on Saturday Nights, it's just you're not really going to draw them in with Anime they can already readily watch online.
 
D

Doctor Decimate

Member
cntr said:
toonami showdown stuff:

Aside from the obvious stuff, I think it makes sense why AoT isn't as huge of a thing anymore.

AoT is the kind of thing teenagers are into, right? That's the age where you get into the edgy shit, and that clearly ended up being a big part of AoT's original demographic.

But that was four years ago. Most of those fans probably now think of Attack on Titan as "that embarrassing edgy trash I watched as a kid", whatever the actual quality of S2 ended up being. And S2 wasn't picked up by the current batch of teenagers, so...
Click to expand...

four years is a while, but do people really age out of this stuff? like, as depressing as this idea is, i don't necessarily think that "i like the EEEEEEEEEEEDGE" phase stops when you're about to hit your 20s for a lot of people. though i guess a decent part of it was its mainstream adoption so in that regard maybe its issue is that it doesn't play to a lot of what the regular anime audience is into? i dunno.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Doctor Decimate said:
four years is a while, but do people really age out of this stuff? like, as depressing as this idea is, i don't necessarily think that "i like the EEEEEEEEEEEDGE" phase stops when you're about to hit your 20s for a lot of people. though i guess a decent part of it was its mainstream adoption so in that regard maybe its issue is that it doesn't play to a lot of what the regular anime audience is into? i dunno.
Click to expand...
yeah there are definitely people who never grow out of it, but I'd say most teenagers do. like, man, I thought Gantz was the hottest shit when I was 13.

and more generally, that kind of shit's been around in some form or the other long before anime became a thing, like emos or goths.

(also, tbh, I think part of why it might not seem that way is that the internet has a tendency to show you the weirdest and worst parts of a fanbase, not the normal stuff.)
 
M

Moaradin

Member
I mean currently, not of all time. Obviously it isn't going to have more sales than those giants that have been around for decades.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Oh, pfft, sorry, misread.

Looking it up, yeah, it's one of the most popular manga, but there's a lot of other series that sell about the same number. One Piece is the only one that's way above the rest.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Lol at that ToonamiGAF "shout out" in the Toonami Showdown ranking.

Edit: another Toonami Showdown reply: there was a Samurai Champloo manga, but it was only 2 volumes & came out after the anime like Gurren Lagann & Cowboy Bebop.
 
R

Regiruler

Member
Doctor Decimate said:
I like Breath of the Wild a lot but also I'm getting sitting here in the Gerudo desert after doing 2 dungeons and struggling a bit to wanna continue.

I explored a ton and it took quite a while before I felt bogged down by repetition and stuff, but I still got to that point eventually; I think some variety would've helped a lot. I think the world itself is REALLY well-designed but also fuck Korok seeds for the most part and the enemy encampments because both got old real quick. The encampments lacked variety and much of a reward so I started just avoiding them outright, and the Korok seeds began to feel like pretty trivial challenges. The reward itself isn't bad for what it gets you eventually, but there's only so many times I can do the apple tree thing before I stop bothering. Some of them are more unique (or at least a couple seemed that way when I encountered them the first time) but they ultimately ended up few and far between.

So I guess I get where Zonic is coming from to a point but also I played quite a bit and feel like I easily got my money's worth so
wtzgU.gif


It's tough because I feel the size of the world and the amount of negative space it has are huge positives for that feeling of exploration but also it must be really hard to populate that kind of world with unique challenges.
Click to expand...

Gerudo Desert is the best area in the game, if you quit you're not missing much. It has a very interesting shrine gimmick which is used well but not too much, has a unique miniboss, unique mode of transportation, an overarching town completion quest for a pretty unique reward, and a unique level + mid boss.

Nothing else really compares.

Games like BotW are designed for quantity over quality. It's an inescapable part of such a level of player freedom, as you can't have interconnected cogs that make for the truly greatest world and level design.
 
I

Imperial Bishop

Banned
You can attribute most of AoT's success to the phenomenal direction of the first season.

Can you imagine how different its popularity would be if the anime was helmed by a less competent director?

YoodiHoshi said:
Lupin the 3rd's 50th anniversary today, did you guys know?
Click to expand...

Oh, the 1960's. Back when anime was good.
 
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