We were talking about it in BCT but the basic issue is that A LOT of people bought into and became invested into the female Link rumors. So literally anything Nintendo did short of female Link was going to get some people PISSED. However, Aonuma's dumb diet-sexism did a good job of adding kindling onto the fire :/
Toonami |JunJul16| You Thought It Was Dragon Ball Super, But It Was ME, DIO!
- Thread starter Grexeno
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We were talking about it in BCT but the basic issue is that A LOT of people bought into and became invested into the female Link rumors. So literally anything Nintendo did short of female Link was going to get some people PISSED. However, Aonuma's dumb diet-sexism did a good job of adding kindling onto the fire :/
I don't bother with the post season. It's pointless. I did last year a bit because I had a bunch of downtime with my back fucked up but otherwise, nah.
Waluigi.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
A massive kerfuffle about girl Link is just the same people who have been sitting there deluding themselves about a new Crash game for years based on conspiracy theories that flat earth truthers would scoff at.
I'm not against the idea of girl Link, who fucking cares. But I dunno why anyone suddenly expected that.
I'm not against the idea of girl Link, who fucking cares. But I dunno why anyone suddenly expected that.
Or just simply "Sasuke."
how much longer in the anime until it goes completely towards Sauke Shippuden
I know this is a sasuke arc, but I don't think this arc was the problem
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Yeah thats true Aonuma is doing himself no favors
BassForever
Member
What I find weird about the concept of a female Link is it seems like people either have terrible memories or only played Zelda 1 on the NES since Link has had a personality in every game in the series and he's not just some blank slate for the audience to "link" with. He's had relationships he's formed before the games events take place and been motivated based upon past experiences we may or may not have seen in game. Just because Link is a silent protagonist doesn't mean he isn't a real character in his own world we just don't see him speak outside of answer questions.
i'd rather not get into it here, because I don't think it's what the thread is a bout, but him saying "what would link do" doesnt imply "what would the man do", it implies that fans want to play as link in a mainline LoZ title, and they'd have a hard time balancing the two if they just decided to throw Zelda in. If Zelda is given a minor role, people are going to complain that she isnt being featured enough, if she's given a major role, people will complain that they arent playing as Link, hence why they said that they wanted to seperate the two characters into different games.
A large majority of Zelda fans love Link as a character and want to play as Link. I dont think they were ever against a gender swapped Link either, but it doesnt mesh with their lore at all, which theyve been trying to push hard in their Zelda games
I for one want A Zelda focused game and a Link focused game, that means we get way more Hyrule goodness
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The two best Zelda games of all time
Hellwarden
Member
If there's ever another Zelda animated show, we can only hope it reaches the level of animation done by the CDI Zelda developers
Doctor Decimate
Member
I think the key point about the blank slate thing is that there was not much, if anything, in his personalities that was inherently masculine
This is the stupidest logic on earth. Im sorry fam, I love you fam, but this is some Bassforever talking about Ping Pong tier shit.
Zelda is not a role playing game, there are many other games where you can change your characters name (IE FF games) where you aren't role playing a character. game developers and artists alike shouldnt be held back by an inherent need to be inclusive in every single game on earth.
So.......................does this mean you dislike the many JRPGs which allow you to choose your party member's names? Like Chrono Trigger?
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
People should stop saying this now. You could at least make the argument before but now theres equipment stats, food you have to eat instead of hearts, durability (which was in before but not as much) and probably more.
Indeed.
I dont see anything on the Tonnami Faithful site yet.
Im gonna guess
1.4 DBZ
1.0 IBO
.92 HXH
.83 Shampoo
.79 Shitpooden
.68 One Piss
.65 Parasyte
BassForever
Member
The characters are written to interact with him as a male though, either by showing romantic interest in him, giving him male roles in the villages he grows up in, and in specific examples the plot wouldn't work at all if Link was female (why would the Helmrock King not steal female Link when he stole his younger sister in Wind Waker).
it's a video game definition of an RPG, but you don't do any role playing. Japanese games generally are very linear and are more about telling a story about predetermined characters. The only interaction you face are generally combat and puzzles.
none of those things are inherent to role playing at all.
BassForever
Member
Does anyone have a link to how Toonami cut the IBO opening? Watching it on demand and it's uncut here.
To the bolded: brah, no.
To the rest: no one is saying change Link's gender in past games, we're saying make it selectable going forward.
they havent done an OP cut yet since last weeks episode was the first to show the opener. Next week is when we'll see the cut, and honestly, the OP wasn't my jam so im not that upset about it being cut, but hey, they could always do a HxH tier cut and disappoint me
BassForever
Member
I gave more specific examples in the actual thread so I won't repeat them here but your "brah no" doesn't work with the games we've played.
I'm also not saying we shouldn't add a full female character like a Linkle or make a game starring Zelda, but Link has always been a character outside of the NES games and I'd like him to remain one. I don't want a male/female Link switch I want a fully realized silent protagonist who is female in a Zelda game.
It's about representation in equality. It's something that may never end.
Zelda is all you need.
I don't think I've seen a big game that made physics that big of a deal since Half-Life 2.
You know actual people there?
(I can't believe I'm saying this) I know, right?
Apparently the Link shirts they're handing out are men's size only so......yeah....
We are living an accelerating world.
^
Add in how androgynous he is.
If you really need a sex toggle in your games then maybe Zelda isn't the game for you. Im not going to sit here and say that you should be happy if that's your main concern with the game. If that's what you truly want then just dont purchase the game. I dont really know what else too say. If that's a dealbreaker for you, vote with your wallet then.
No, Link has never been a character. Link has been multiple characters, about as many as there are games. Link has always been a player insert character, literally one of the main reasons most often given for why he doesn't speak, even through text. And when you have a player insert character, players better actually be able to insert themselves into the character, which includes gender.
Theres lots of games with silent protagonists that have incredibly strong narratives for said character. Hell, look at Chrono Trigger, Half Life etc etc
Legend of Zelda is not a role playing game. Go play some D&D and tell me with a straight face that you can roleplay as Link. He's a predetermined character who does predetermined things.
Like I said, if this is a dealbreaker for you, im not going to tell you that you arent wrong to be unhappy about it. But like, there's no precedent to expect anything beyond expectations for a game that you havent even played. If it's really that important to you, dont purchase the game. One of the reasons why im having a really hard time playing the Witcher is because im stuck playing as Geralt through his adventure, and I liked ciri a lot more as a protagonist. But im not going to tell artists what they should or shouldnt create based off my personal opinions and my personal wants.
I would argue the Villager from Animal Crossing is more "player insert" than Link. Hell, I'd say the same for Robin from Fire Emblem because you can customize him/her.
....but it also helps that they didn't have pre-determined traits because they were new characters, & in the case of Villager, a new franchise.
....but it also helps that they didn't have pre-determined traits because they were new characters, & in the case of Villager, a new franchise.
Animal Crossing is more of a role playing game then LoZ is. It makes sense to have a character selection option. I don't really like the "make a character" option in Fire Emblem that much, but that's mostly because it turns into "Make Kirito or mary sue" and that's mostly a cosmetic choice rather then a role playing choice anyway, since it really doesnt do anything beyond choose what waifu/husbando you're going to pick. I guess it's a nice feature, but it didnt really make me go WOW THIS IS A GAME CHANGER FOR ME since you're not roleplaying a character at all.
BassForever
Member
Sorry, Link has been multiple REAL characters in his own games as a silent protagonist. His role as an link avatar only truly existed in the first NES game. Since the many Link's we've seen have been characters in their own worlds with relationships, motivations, and personalities that are shown by their actions, their facial expressions, and how others interact with them. Wind Waker Link is a very different Link from Twilight Princess Link who is a very different Link from Skyward Sword Link etc. In almost every Zelda game if you retroactively added a male/female option you'd have to alter lots of dialogue to make the character still work.
Also if Link is supposed to be just an avatar character where are all the people up in arms about him not being black or Hispanic? Why aren't people frustrated we can't pick his height? His age? His weight? His hair color? Link has always been a character outside of the first Zelda game where he very easily could have been female.
ASSauLTxMasTER
Member
not sure if anyone posted ratings yet
Doctor Decimate
Member
"Him being male in past games affected certain plot points" doesn't really change anything I said unless you want to argue that those plot points are so monumentally significant that he can never be written in a way that could potentially depict both genders, which just isn't true. And as Grexeno said, Link is multiple characters; he's different in The Wind Waker than he is in Twilight Princess than he is in Skyward Sword, and I see no reason here that dictates he could not also be different in a future game.
While I do think there's a lot of outrage based around little more than "THEY DIDN'T DO THE THING I HOPED THEY WOULD," that doesn't really mean the topic is closed to discussion or that people shouldn't call out some rather poor reasoning on Aonuma's part.
not sure if anyone posted ratings yet
Great ratings for HxH and IBO considering how DBZ only brought in 1.3 mil. Also, really good rating for Shamppo as well
There are realistic expectations, and then there's being very silly and wanting something that hasnt ever been standard in a long long series and also wanting something that contradicts a lot of design decisions made by the Zelda teams over the past few games. Also, Aonumas reasoning was fine, he thought about putting Zelda into the game, but decided against it because A) He'd rather just give her her own game B) He couldn't think of a way too please the large majority of the fanbase who wants to play as link if Zelda is a prominent character and C) The lore reasons dont make any sense. You are also talking about a quote from a japanese man, translated into english, who probably was not expecting a question like that, because let's face it, no one was really clamouring for a gender toggle Zelda game other then people on this forum.
Im not going to tell people not to be upset about what they think is important, and yes, you can voice your opinions, but this isn't criticism at all. This is pandering for a feature that isnt in the game and wont be in the game. Maybe it will be in future Zelda games, and you guys can rejoice over that. I'll be happy for you because I play video games for the gameplay generally, especially Nintendo titles. But saying things like "If I can change my name, I better be able to pick my gender" is not a criticism, it's a demand.
If they ended on the Baseball episode, would that have pleased you? I think that's the perfect ending to Shampoo
It's the best episode by far...but even then no. This story needs a finish...I just don't like the one it gets.
It's funny, im just noticing it for the first time, but that baseball episode and space dandy have so much in common. Such a ridiculous episode that really shows off the show.
I think the major issue with Shampoo is it didnt know if it wanted to be a comedy or a serious show, and while the highs were super high, the lows were pretty low too.
There were some top tier animation though in that series, stuff that can easily compete with top tier Cowboy Bebop. It's just that Bebop never reached those same lows Shampoo did
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