It doesn't really matter what gender the fanservice is- i'm still against it. It's something that is mostly unique to Japanese things, that serves to remind you "Oh yeah, they need to sell this stuff to TERRIBLE people who are only going to buy the game if this 30 seconds is included". It's not something common at all in Western media- just look at Game of Thrones. They filled the first season with Sexpositon and nudity, and people noticed it, for better or for worse. There is significantly less of it now, after the show runners took the feedback of "Well, it's really awkward to watch this with my parents/wife/friends", and realized that it was turning people off of the show.
There are thousands of super talented artists on Pixiv and the like to create all the "fanservice" type stuff for your show that you should not need to put it in the actual product. Hell, you can even take the Koga Yun approach, who has written several super interesting doujins for her own series, Loveless. If you have no interest in it, you will never encounter it. That's the way it should be
Let's not pretend using male/female sexuality as a selling point in a product is an exclusively "WACKY JAPANESE" thing, its a common practice across all cultures. Lets just not forget that America, as great as it is, is a place that FREAKS THE FUCK OUT over exposed pasties but can't/wouldn't want to pass competent gun regulation laws if the fate of the universe depended on it. Even then, being more sexually conservative than many other places in the world, we STILL use "sex" to sell our products ALL THE TIME. Just not our cartoons because cartoons are almost exclusively aimed at children here I think its fine to not like sexual fanservice (targeted to/coming from either gender) but I don't think "keep it only to fan artists" is a reasonable or realistic request. People, normal people, like both producing it and consuming it.
The "fanservice" in KLK is a blantant meta-parody/reconstruction of the concept of the female/male gaze that it's hard to even call it fanservice at times.
Nah I'm not buying that at least not for the series as a whole. Occasionally I feel that's true especially when they play up the clothing theme but they play it pretty straight pretty often (like the most recent episode for example). They get some degree of accolades for how extremely even-handed they are though. For a product CLEARLY TARGETED AT MALES, there is more male nudity, male partial nudity, male ass-shots than any other male-targeted show I'm familiar with to any degree.
On an unrelated note, the Metal Gear Rising: Revengance OST is AMAZING. If I'm looking for a good action game does that fit the bill?
Okay, this is only my perception, so please understand I don't mean to be critiquing a show I've never seen.
But Kill La Kill seems to emphasize extreme wackiness, lewdness, fanservice, and shock value, all things I don't really look or care for. Those sorts of things don't resonate with me much. So people saying 'HOLY SHIT OMG" and "this will never ever air on TV" only strengthen my perception that Kill La Kill is not a show I would personally enjoy, because of the nature of the reactions to seemingly every episode, not solely because people are excited for it and liking it.
Again, my perception. At least, I hope there's more substance to the show than that, but it's hard to tell based on reactions.
Nah I'm not buying that at least not for the series as a whole. Occasionally I feel that's true especially when they play up the clothing theme but they play it pretty straight pretty often (like the most recent episode for example). They get some degree of accolades for how extremely even-handed they are though. For a product CLEARLY TARGETED AT MALES, there is more male nudity, male partial nudity, male ass-shots than any other male-targeted show I'm familiar with to any degree.
The water has calmed down, the two ninja are gone and Anko is diving looking for Naruto. Shino is in the boat with an unconscious Ino. Anko can't find any signs of Naruto. Either he drifted away or swam off. It's too foggy to continue so she orders Shino to find the nearest shore and to head for it as her curse mark pulsates.
A dude in a brown robe is bowing to someone on a candle lit throne. It's been a long time...LORD OROCHIMARU. Indeed, it has. How fortunate he dropped by and found this man. The man is researching something. He believes it will someday be useful to Orochimaru. By the way is HE the one you spoke of before.
Yes, its the younger brother of Itachi Uchiha and also his...THE SAUCE IS HERE, THE SAUCE IS HERE. Some things are better left unsaid says the Sauce as Orochimaru laughs for a good ten seconds and the candles go out.
Naruto is alive! Bandage girl took him out of his jumpsuit and is tending him. Shino sent out bugs and can't find Naruto anywhere. Ino is worried about him but Shino thinks he is fine, he's a Leaf Ninja after all. Anko and the two remaining genin are meeting with the client, who heard about Naruto. She asks him if they have any word on Naruto. No reports. That's not the only bad news, the schedule has been moved up for the money shipment. They understand but will spend all the remaining time today looking for Naruto. They also wouldn't mind if they helped out the local economy by killing the demon. Naruto wakes up and remembers bandage girl saving him. She comes in a moment later and he thanks her for saving him and introduces himself. She says it was just a coincidence and that her name is Isaribi. He calls her his hero now and laughs. They have some food and she asks what he was doing there, he explains the mission and she tells him to give up. If he finds the demon he won't survive. He disagrees. She asks if he is feeling better and he says he is doing great after this meal. She tells him to leave when he's done so he finishes up quickly and wants to know the deal, following her outside.
Her house is vandalized, broken windows, graffiti everywhere. Naruto wants to know who did this and she says local children, and that it doesn't bug her. He tells her to remember that he owes her one as some little kids pop up and start calling her a monster and begin throwing rocks at her. One knocks her down to her knees. She's a bad omen. Naruto catches one right before it hits her right between the eyes. They ask if he is friends with the monster and that she joined up with the demon of the ocean. Naruto tells them not to make up stuff when a kid runs up and kicks him in the shins before running off with his buddies. Isarabi tells him not to follow. Naruto wants to do something and if they keep doing this she could get seriously hurt. She angrily tells him to mind his own business before telling him that she was taken by the spirits and it's wonder people think she is strange. It's not her fault but she thinks that most humans couldn't stand associating with one as strange as she. A horseman with a message rides right on by following the shoreline and she starts walking off, leaving Naruto hurt and confused. Ino and Shino are asking the dock workers and boatman if they have seen anything. Nope, they're all scared of the demon and don't go out at night. An old women tells them that they were taken of the spirits. Shino wants to know what the talk is about but they don't want to talk to it with outsiders. Ino explains that they are here to exorcise the demon and the young lady explains the legend of the Island of Demons. The shores off of the island are rich in fish but its too rocky and the currents played strange tricks, giving the impression that it was haunted. One cool summer ten years ago though the fish disappeared and they had no choice but to fish there, so her husband and she braved the waters. She caught many fish but her husband in the boat was spirited away and ever since then most people who came near the island suffered a similar fate. Shino heard something like this back on the mainland and Ino remembers the story of the girl who lived. "Ah yes, Isaribi." Ino wants to know where she lives.
Tsunade is in her office looking bored. Shizune brought the file about the Land of the Sea and asks if she is worried about Anko. Truth be told, Anko was foud there after Orochimaru experimented on her and erased her memory! Teenage Anko is LEGIT SHOOK when the ANBU found her. The medical ninja questioning her in a sealed room can't help. She can't remember anything and is in so much pain. The doctor (more Steve Blum! what a mindfuck) tells her to calm down. She doesn't even know if she got the cursed mark there. Joekage comes over and tells her not to worry about her memory they are going to treat the cursed mark. She never did remember anything. Shizune brings up what you are all thinking; this is the first time she's been back there and Tsunade says yes. What a gamble! She hopes it'll bring back memories but...
Naruto makes his way to the docks. He just missed them? They went where he was! The man at the docks points him in the right direction, they just left. He runs for it. Bandage girl is staking out the commercial house where Anko and the rest met the man earlier. So the shipment has been moved up. Anko and the rest are heading to her house wondering what she knows about the demon of the seas. Anko tells them to hold it as a girl is walking along the shore. "What? It's her" says Ino. Anko tells her to wait. She's being cautious so they tail after her like Ninja. Meanwhile Naruto is a bit behind and is yelling, saying if he goes much further he'll be at Isaribi's house.
Isaribi meanwhile is on the beach and her eyes change and her arm starts twitching. It turns into a monster arm. She's a Zora! Ino outs her as the Demon of the Ocean as a wave obscures their vision. Anko's cursed mark is twinging and she's laid out by visions while Shino sends bugs after her and him and Ino start running across the ocean after her, "It's getting away", stay classy. Anko remembers a mermaid experiment from when she was with Orochimaru. This is one of the labs where he develops jutsus and wants her help with this specimen. She's worried about the villager's reaction. He admits this one isn't going that smoothly but she's one step away from being right and the only thing to fear is neglecting their duty to the pursuit of knowledge. Could it be the same girl? Ino is readying a paper bomb to blow up the only outlet the cove has to the sea and it works. Shino traps her with some wires flung by discs and Naruto catches up. Ino was worried but Shino says he is too late, they caught the demon of the ocean. Isarabi looks away ashamed. Naruto puts it together. Ino has no idea what he's talking about. Isaribi breaks her bonds! Naruto tells them to be gentle as she's not strong but an object forms out of the water. It's glasses ninja. He has the girl. Naruto tells him to hand her over. Glasses Ninja says she's an important lab rat and he's responsible as they start leaving in a vortex. Anko orders him to remember yesterday and he stops. Anko knows what is going on and that was the girl from her memory as she collapses. Naruto wants to know what the fuck is going on as the episode ends...and Molesting Leaf Chaba plays!
I've been avoiding reading your filler theater as I was am watching it though I doubt I'll ever catch up unless I take a day off to do a soul crushing marathon
you could do it pretty easily. For every episode I write about I could watch 3-4. It's other pursuits getting in the way.
I've completely stopped catching up on casshern for example and I've got a two month backlog of One piece. I've been attempting to cut down on the posting during my free time and instead actually playing all these games I have to some success.
I think a lot of the narratives used to defend and excuse the elements in KLK that are "fan service" or borderline if not straight up pandering is very disingenuous particularly the two arguments here:
1) 'KLK's themes and narratives make the "fan service" either purposeful or deconstruct/parodies it. '
I understand and am well aware that a the theme of KLK is based on the idea of cutting/clothing (which is the play on words indicated in it's title name) and even as soon as episode 3
the body exposure is explained as having to be willing to bear it all for the sake of power and achieving your goals (at least in Satsuki's sake)
and that amongst other themes are used to create a "parody/above it all" attitude in how the fan service is handled along with the inherent sexual nature of the show . But I feel this is very very disingenuous, for one creating a purposeful message doesn't excuse criticisms on how one actually handles getting the message across, how it handles itself generally nor the messages itself. To me the message of "exposing yourself is ok for the sake of empowerment " and thus the fan service serves a point, is not really any better than telling women to "cover up" , you shouldn't tell women how they should or shouldn't feel about their bodies period. Nor do I think it creates a point where what actually happens within the show qualifies as either deconstructions (I actually really hate the use of this word) or parodies, to be quite honest in all the episodes I've watched (all but the recent one) there is nothing that strikes me as parody or deconstructions, sure it's paced pretty darn fast and is very over the top, but that doesn't make it a parody or deconstructs anything.Next later on especially I really think it handles its themes and narrative very irresponsibly and very uncomfortably
obviously I'm talking about the times in which Satsuki is molested , yes it sets up and informs a good few things about her relationship with her mother including her lack of autonomy, her resentment for her, even her general personality for the show which is reminiscent of that of an abuse victim. However everything about it's handled is ...self indulgent, superfluous, and lacking subtlety (which yes, KLK in general lacks but if so *do not* deal with serious themes and triggering acts then). Dare I say these moments don't seem like much more than pandering, cause they go far beyond whatever purpose they may serve
. I've seen some people actually excuse this with "well the show always had sexual themes and overtones" but it's like . no man, no, not every sexual thing is the same and how you handle and put your messages across matters.
2) 'It is equal opportunity in its "fan service" .'
I feel much like other matters of equality people have this false perception that "if it happens to everyone it's ok".Saying that it has equal parts gynephyllic and androphyllic "gaze and fan service" , while not only in my opinion not actually being true, makes false equivalencies that ignore the historical issues and contexts of one form of fan service versus the other and that ignore that heterosexual female sexuality is not equivalent to heterosexual male sexuality. Which is not to say females don't look at bulging muscles , exposed butts and the like, or find them sexually stimulating, but as a whole slapping in these elements doesn't serve the same effect. Nor am I saying they are male power fantasies (I assume there are people who want to be any number of dudes in KLK, but even so). Just that like, if someone has a problem with focus on female bodies sexually there being male focus as well isn't a defense nor is it the same.
I'd probably go on but I don't want to really rant and I am sure in the time it took to write this we have already moved on to some other subject and this is now a long awkward rant, I'd also say I am still watching KLK and still like it, I just don't think it's above some of the criticisms I see thrown its way about fan service and a lot of other elements.
It looks like I'm about a week away from being halfway done with Naruto filler. There's some upcoming stuff I both dread and can't wait to dive back into. Most of them are from the same episodes.
I think a lot of the narratives used to defend and excuse the elements in KLK that are "fan service" or borderline if not straight up pandering is very disingenuous particularly the two arguments here:
1) 'KLK's themes and narratives make the "fan service" either purposeful or deconstruct/parodies it. '
I understand and am well aware that a the theme of KLK is based on the idea of cutting/clothing (which is the play on words indicated in it's title name) and even as soon as episode 3
the body exposure is explained as having to be willing to bear it all for the sake of power and achieving your goals (at least in Satsuki's sake)
and that amongst other themes are used to create a "parody/above it all" attitude in how the fan service is handled along with the inherent sexual nature of the show . But I feel this is very very disingenuous, for one creating a purposeful message doesn't excuse criticisms on how one actually handles getting the message across, how it handles itself generally nor the messages itself. To me the message of "exposing yourself is ok for the sake of empowerment " and this the fan service serves a point, is not really any better than telling women to "cover up" , you shouldn't tell women how they should or shouldn't feel about their bodies period. Nor do I think it creates a point where what actually happens within the show qualifies as either deconstructions (I actually really hate the use of this word) or parodies, to be quite honest in all the episodes I've watched (all but the recent one) there is nothing that strikes me as parody or deconstructions, sure it's paced pretty darn fast and is very over the top, but that doesn't make it a parody or deconstructs anything.Next later on especially I really think it handles its themes and narrative very irresponsibly and very uncomfortably
obviously I'm talking about the times in which Satsuki is molested , yes it sets up and informs a good few things about her relationship with her mother including her lack of autonomy, her resentment for her, even her general personality for the show which is reminiscent of that of an abuse victim. However everything about it's handled is ...self indulgent, superfluous, and lacking subtlety (which yes, KLK in general lacks but if so *do not* deal with serious themes and triggering acts then). Dare I say these moments don't seem like much more than pandering, cause they go far beyond whatever purpose they may serve
. I've seen some people actually excuse this with "well the show always had sexual themes and overtones" but it's like . no man, no, not every sexual thing is the same and how you handle and put your messages across matters.
2) 'It is equal opportunity in its "fan service" .'
I feel much like other matters of equality people have this false perception that "if it happens to everyone it's ok".Saying that it has equal parts gynephyllic and androphyllic "gaze and fan service" , while not only in my opinion not actually being true, makes false equivalencies that ignore the historical issues and contexts of one form of fan service versus the other and that ignore that heterosexual female sexuality is not equivalent to heterosexual male sexuality. Which is not to say females don't look at bulging muscles , exposed butts and the like, or find them sexually stimulating, but as a whole slapping in these elements doesn't serve the same effect. Nor am I saying they are male power fantasies (I assume there are people who want to be any number of dudes in KLK, but even so). Just that like, if someone has a problem with focus on female bodies sexually there being male focus as well isn't a defense nor is it the same.
I'd probably go on but I don't want to really rant and I am sure in the time it took to write this we have already moved on to some other subject and this is now a long awkward rant, I'd also say I am still watching KLK and still like it, I just don't think it's above some of the criticisms I see thrown its way about fan service and a lot of other elements.
Okay, this is only my perception, so please understand I don't mean to be critiquing a show I've never seen.
But Kill La Kill seems to emphasize extreme wackiness, lewdness, fanservice, and shock value, all things I don't really look or care for. Those sorts of things don't resonate with me much. So people saying 'HOLY SHIT OMG" and "this will never ever air on TV" only strengthen my perception that Kill La Kill is not a show I would personally enjoy, because of the nature of the reactions to seemingly every episode, not solely because people are excited for it and liking it.
Again, my perception. At least, I hope there's more substance to the show than that, but it's hard to tell based on reactions.
I would say KLK is pretty heavy on the wackiness and lewdness. Fanservice and shock value, not so much. The "fanservice vs. not-fanservice" is hard to really explain, but I lean towards it not being fanservice, and the show is just too cartoony to really have "shock value." There's not a whole lot of difference between Daffy Duck getting shot in the face and somebody in KLK getting run through with a blade.
I think a lot of the narratives used to defend and excuse the elements in KLK that are "fan service" or borderline if not straight up pandering is very disingenuous particularly the two arguments here:
1) 'KLK's themes and narratives make the "fan service" either purposeful or deconstruct/parodies it. '
I understand and am well aware that a the theme of KLK is based on the idea of cutting/clothing (which is the play on words indicated in it's title name) and even as soon as episode 3
the body exposure is explained as having to be willing to bear it all for the sake of power and achieving your goals (at least in Satsuki's sake)
and that amongst other themes are used to create a "parody/above it all" attitude in how the fan service is handled along with the inherent sexual nature of the show . But I feel this is very very disingenuous, for one creating a purposeful message doesn't excuse criticisms on how one actually handles getting the message across, how it handles itself generally nor the messages itself. To me the message of "exposing yourself is ok for the sake of empowerment " and thus the fan service serves a point, is not really any better than telling women to "cover up" , you shouldn't tell women how they should or shouldn't feel about their bodies period. Nor do I think it creates a point where what actually happens within the show qualifies as either deconstructions (I actually really hate the use of this word) or parodies, to be quite honest in all the episodes I've watched (all but the recent one) there is nothing that strikes me as parody or deconstructions, sure it's paced pretty darn fast and is very over the top, but that doesn't make it a parody or deconstructs anything.Next later on especially I really think it handles its themes and narrative very irresponsibly and very uncomfortably
obviously I'm talking about the times in which Satsuki is molested , yes it sets up and informs a good few things about her relationship with her mother including her lack of autonomy, her resentment for her, even her general personality for the show which is reminiscent of that of an abuse victim. However everything about it's handled is ...self indulgent, superfluous, and lacking subtlety (which yes, KLK in general lacks but if so *do not* deal with serious themes and triggering acts then). Dare I say these moments don't seem like much more than pandering, cause they go far beyond whatever purpose they may serve
. I've seen some people actually excuse this with "well the show always had sexual themes and overtones" but it's like . no man, no, not every sexual thing is the same and how you handle and put your messages across matters.
I think the major issue is that handling the subject matter requires a degree of finesse and subtlety that the director (Imashi) and probably the writing team as well don't have. It comes off a bit "have your cake and eat it too". They try to justify it and it sometimes seems sincere but not only do they fail to really bring it home with the writing, they play the fanservice card completely straight often enough that it totally undercuts their points. Clothing is about expression. What they needed to do was vary the outfits and "God Robes" to be more reflective of the personality and attributes of the individual. If Satsuki has a "I don't give a fuck about bearing it all" personality give her a battle thong. If Ryuko has a more conservative outlook, give her something much more covering. I dunno, they could have really hit this home and really tied the clothing theme well into the narrative and characters but the writers didn't go far enough and didn't think it through well enough.
The scenes with Ragyo are setup up to show her as the villian but I have to agree that they are best described as gratuitous and pandering. They don't upset me the way similar scenes often did in SAO but I'm still trying to figure out why. Maybe because I buy Ragyo as a threatening villain? Maybe because there is no male-female dynamic? I dunno.
2) 'It is equal opportunity in its "fan service" .'
I feel much like other matters of equality people have this false perception that "if it happens to everyone it's ok".Saying that it has equal parts gynephyllic and androphyllic "gaze and fan service" , while not only in my opinion not actually being true, makes false equivalencies that ignore the historical issues and contexts of one form of fan service versus the other and that ignore that heterosexual female sexuality is not equivalent to heterosexual male sexuality. Which is not to say females don't look at bulging muscles , exposed butts and the like, or find them sexually stimulating, but as a whole slapping in these elements doesn't serve the same effect. Nor am I saying they are male power fantasies (I assume there are people who want to be any number of dudes in KLK, but even so). Just that like, if someone has a problem with focus on female bodies sexually there being male focus as well isn't a defense nor is it the same.
I'd probably go on but I don't want to really rant and I am sure in the time it took to write this we have already moved on to some other subject and this is now a long awkward rant, I'd also say I am still watching KLK and still like it, I just don't think it's above some of the criticisms I see thrown its way about fan service and a lot of other elements.
You edited before I had a chance to respond so my response will be a bit different but just checking, are you referring to me when you say that? I didn't bring that up to excuse the female fanservice or to claim its above critique (its not). I have no real desire to try to excuse or justify what that show tries to do, it can live or die by its own hand. I just brought it up because I thought it was noteworthy and unusual given the clear, intended demographic of the show. I also feel that with the frequent asshots, crotch shots, chest shots and all the associated pans that this goes beyond "buff dudes in little clothing". I don't think that stuff was done to deliberately appeal to the female audience (though interactions or observations with/of other heterosexual females reveals it has appeal to a non-zero number of them) and I don't think its equivalent to the female fanservice in the show but you can't make the argument that the degree of male sexualization in this show isn't much higher than in most male-targeted shows.
To go on a tangent, I think this just brings up my frustration with an inability to understand what others think male sexualization is, how it tends to have its goal posts moved or how the first version of your post gave me flashbacks of that annoying comic with the pouty Batman. I do think its problematic that many often try to promote the idea that there is an overall equivalence between how male and female sexuality is expressed across the media we consume. At the same time, it frustrates me when people try sweep all examples of ridiculously idealized male forms as power fantasy (which I don't feel even applies to KLK but you seem to agree) or talk as if a power fantasy and sexualization were somehow mutually exclusive. Like Kratos wasn't designed in mind to appeal to the female demographic at all (in fact I'd say he's the proto-type power fantasy character) but that doesn't change the fact that his body type is meant to express sexual prowess and desirability (because that's what teen boys want to be no?). For more moderate examples you have like Pre-Cyborg Raiden (a decent number of MG characters actually) and Dante who certainly have a pretty boy vibe to them but are no less ripped or much differently built than say Chris Evans or Chris Hemsworth (Live -Action Captain America and Thor) and all those examples certainly have elements that are designed to actually appeal to heterosexual females.
I think it all gets confounded because its often brought up in threads to discuss female body issues and said threads should be focused on female body issues and it annoys me when detractors bring this point up only to say "but but you see its just as bad for dudes". At the same time many rebuttals often take the tone of "men can't/aren't sexualized shut up" and then I get frustrated on the other end too.
Sorry, I'm sure that came off ranty but I just felt like getting that off my chest.
The main reason the show might not ever air on Toonami is because it has no problems showing characters in super skimpy outfits or even completely nude (with naughty bits carefully obscured ala Austiin Powers). It's the nudity, really. But the nudity or skimpy outfits aren't just for fan-service. The reason the characters appear this way has entirely to do with the nature of the story and what is unfolding. Still, this show pushes this to boundaries that are likely too far for american cable television.
Otherwise, I think the show is a lot of fun with compelling characters and moments of phenominal epic tension like I said last week.
Which is why I soooo want Gurren Lagann to air on Toonami! KLK has a lot similar elements but at least the fan-service in TTGL can be aired on television (it has before) and it never gets as creepy feeling. It's just a downright awesome show from start to finish. God, I can't stop thinking about all of us watching TTGL and how epic our reactions would be to each episode.
I would say KLK is pretty heavy on the wackiness and lewdness. Fanservice and shock value, not so much. The "fanservice vs. not-fanservice" is hard to really explain, but I lean towards it not being fanservice, and the show is just too cartoony to really have "shock value." There's not a whole lot of difference between Daffy Duck getting shot in the face and somebody in KLK getting run through with a blade.
I appreciate the responses. I'm sure the show is probably not as shallow as it may come across. That said, I probably won't watch it simply because I hardly watch anything on my own time anyway, haha.
I appreciate the responses. I'm sure the show is probably not as shallow as it may come across. That said, I probably won't watch it simply because I hardly watch anything on my own time anyway, haha.
Yea, it was just a general statement on what i've seen been said about sexualized males versus sexualized females, not just a statement by you or anything. Like I contend that no its not as simple as being a power fantasy (though I think in some cases that is the case) and I very much think there are females that enjoy said sexualization, my point was that due to the history of one thing compared to the other that it is a false equivalency and one I see raised for this stuff a lot.
edit: yes Jintor that's what I did in order to enjoy it initially and then someone decided to defend some of the more uncomfortable elements and that made me think and now I'm stuck in the Criticism Zone .
I find KLK's take on nudity to be 95% humorous with the rest divided in some portion between exciting and shameful. I've had all three reactions at once before.
It was a neat place to watch old pokémon on add free. Plus various time they ran Samurai Jack and the DCU shows along with other CN staples. but yeah. Most memorable for their trippy Boomerang ads.
No I'm just saying "You don't like X? Well I know you like Y and Y is shit so your opinion is shit" or some derivative is poor debate form. If you were actually interested in debating his opinion, assuming you disagreed with it (I never meant to imply whether you did or didn't), you have to argue specifics. Then again, you probably were just joking so whateves
I think its fine to not like sexual fanservice (targeted to/coming from either gender) but I don't think "keep it only to fan artists" is a reasonable or realistic request. People, normal people, like both producing it and consuming it.
