It's very weird. Used to be in Monthly Jump, then it was moved to Weekly Jump but still published monthly, then moved again to Jump Square, which is basically the replacement for Monthly Jump.
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Toonami |MarApr17| Brought to you by Arby's and Old Spice
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I mean Weekly Shounen Jump specifically, since it's the one everyone knows and reads. Monthly shounen and seinen tend to be way better at it since they're better written overall, but nobody reads them.
(check out Golden Kamuy for a good battle seinen example)
(check out Golden Kamuy for a good battle seinen example)
I think that was just a temporary thing until they got a new monthly magazine running, it didn't really run in WSJ.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
To think, the entire plot of Zeta Gundam could have been avoided if this happened in the anime.
JadedWriter
Member
Surely you mean FMA Brotherhood.
I must respectfully disagree.
BassForever
Member
To be fair Erza does win all her fights and gets tons of fights. Heck most of the female cast in ft wins fights without the need for a man to save them. If the conversation is soley about having and winning fights ft is one of the best shonen series for that.
Of course its not jump
And the sexualization of said female characters makes the fact they get so many fights suspect
But thats a separate topic from if they get and win fights
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
Erza is definitely a rare breed of having the same hax BS plot armor that is normally reserved for the lead.
That was a dope episode. Love the sketchy look to it.
The ninja episode is coming up and that's another dope one.
Stupid costumes aside, most/many male-lead Western Superhero comics are able to find good roles for the female cast (ally or villain). One just has to make an effort to not default to bad gender stereotypes and write good female characters. It's clear that many authors who write shonen manga either can't be bothered or editors meddle to the detriment of the series.
Well, Nico Robin seems to be one of most dangerous of the Straw Hats.
Her power is a bit of a game-breaker. She can easily dispatch most enemies, except for Logia users
which is where I think Oda can give her a fight, a Logia user that requires her to learn Armament Haki, though that would make her even more broken
Though I think she prefers to stay behind the scenes, mostly scope out for Poneglyphs and information. She is the only one that can read them
until Luffy learns to control the Voice of All Things
But yeah, like Fugo in Vento Aureo, her power is too broken to concoct good fights. Though unlike Fugo, she can't be written out of the story due to plot importance.
JadedWriter
Member
Revy is not on the same level as Roberta and Balalaika "I said kneel!!!"
One Piece is pretty bad at it. Though yeah, the latest arc's been an improvement.
Doctor Decimate
Member
catching up on the block
so they finally had their first good episode of Unicorn i guess
so they finally had their first good episode of Unicorn i guess
Batou got got and basically explained the uber plot.
You're probably S5 ready tbh. There's only a few episodes that are actually plot relevant. Most are just great episodes on their own.
JadedWriter
Member
A dude eating an epic sized beam Tomahawk to the face is one of my favorite moments.
No kidding. So much style. Genndy plz.
I don't blame you.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
Banagher whined about murder being wrong and then proceeded to try and mruder Full Frontal.
JadedWriter
Member
If you want to get technical that was the NTD system trying to murder Full Frontal.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
I guess that shows how much I pay attention. Like, I keep zoning in and out as it airs.
JadedWriter
Member
Yeah, Banagher really hasn't even been fighting that much yet. Any really good display of prowess has been coming from the NTD system, especially if the Unicorn is trying to kill somebody. Banagher I believe is a cyber Newtype, but he doesn't have that much control over it.
No. Fairy Tail is among the worst. Fights don't make a character good.
Giving her a lot of fights to win doesn't make her a good character at all. That's not how it works.
OK, but I just want to be clear that it doesn't make a character good. Too many people conflate a character having a lot of fights and them being a good, well-rounded character. It gets annoying after a while when people use that as the only metric as to whether a character is good or not.
Winry's a better character than pretty much everyone named so far and she's essentially a side character who has never seen a lick of action.
Other than Erza no other females are close to the strongest men in the series.
Then you got all the sexual crap in the series, Erza being a Mary Sue.
Corn said FT has good female leads that isn't just about strength.
Hellwarden
Member
So I'm watching an LP of the second Parasite Eve game...
...How stupid does this series get?
...How stupid does this series get?
Play 3rd Birthday and find out!
Oh yeah, definitely.
Whoops. Don't mind me then. Reading fail on my part. Was thinking of cntrs post.
To be clear, I don't mean just strength, I mean, like...whether they're allowed to have fights in the same way.
Like a typical shounen heroine has fights, yeah, but there's usually tons of implicit restrictions. Like only fighting other female characters, not being allowed to get into melee fights, not getting noticable injuries. fighting only mooks, or just being sidelined into a support or healing ability. More generally, the writing contrives itself to give female characters non-physical fight. Battle shounens like Naruto, Fairy Tail, or even One Piece more or less implicitly follow those rules.
Series like Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter x Hunter and My Hero Academia (and way down the line, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure) don't do that, all the characters are allowed to have real proper physical fights, whether they're male or female. That's what I mean by letting them fight on the same level.
I guess since most of the fights in Fairy Tail are bullshit, Erza does technically fight the same way as everybody else
BassForever
Member
You're screaming at the choir brah I'm not arguing anyone in FT is a well written character (a few odd moments but those are likely broken clock). The discussion was about strong girls who fight evenly with the male counterparts in shonen fight series and Fairy Tail is easily top 5 in that catergory among all shonen. If you eliminate series like Medaka Box and JoJo part 6 that have female leads FT is likely number 1 in girls getting and winning fight consistently.
Even ignoring the "because she's Erza" logic to Erza winning fights, the female FT cast even if they're fighting other females most of those fights pass the bechdel test.
JadedWriter
Member
Even Satsuki Kiryuin could be considered a good female character...fan service aside.
Oh I know, it's just the sort of mistake GAF--and the gaming community in general--likes to make a lot.
You can have a well written, good character who plays into every single gender stereotype in existence. As with all things, it's about execution. People try and turn it into some kind of checklist thing where if you don't hit the points laid out the character is no good.
A good character is multifaceted, they have hopes and dreams they try to accomplish, when they decide to take action and do so the world around them reacts to it in a real way (no matter how small that reaction is). Agency and relevance are what matters.
For example, in FMA when Winry decides to go to Rush Valley the story changes as a result. It moves because of her actions and the cast around her is forced to react to her decision.
You can have a character who gets into a lot of fights be a horrible character, hell look at western comics in the 60's. Outside of Mary Jane Watson and maybe Gwen Stacy the female characters were routinely shitty. Especially the female superheroes. They got plenty of fights, but that's it. They were constantly sidelined by their male counterparts and no one paid any attention to them despite what they did.
People like to cite the Beshdel Test as a way to see if a female character is well written, but shitty female characters routinely pass it. Go with the Sexy Lamp Test. If you replace a character with a sexy lamp and the plot remains intact then it's a shit character. If the lamp gets told to go fight someone it can go fight that person (and win) or if it needs to relay an important piece of information it can have a post-it note taped to it. The idea is that a sexy lamp character will have no agency or relevance.
Basically the character needs agency and relevance. But beyond that they also need their own character arc that isn't beholden to a man's character arc. A character can be dressed as sexy as you want, so long as you actually make them relevant, not dependent on a man, and give them agency.
She is a good character, despite the fan service.
As ludicrous as it was, Kill la Kill had pretty fun characters.
Well put, yo.
JadedWriter
Member
Thank god we're in agreement. I'm just used to people being dismissive about that given the divisive opinions regarding KLK when it came out. I thought she was more developed as a character than Ryoko.
It was definitely a subtext show. If you tried taking it seriously and just looked at it at face value you were watching it wrong.
Cornbread78
Member
I mean, I wouldn't want to duck with either of these two...
Lol
Lol
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
Kill la Kill was some good shit. Also had the best soundtrack I've ever heard in an Anime.
JadedWriter
Member
For some odd reason Blumenkrantz is my favorite song from the show.
Not to mention "don't finger bang your daughter cause she will try to kill you for that."
BassForever
Member
I hear you about the bechdel test, two well written females can have a scene discussing and man and "fail the test" but be okay if everything is written well around it (fma has a few examples of this with Winry). There are also plenty of examples of poorly written females who never have a scene discussing a man for any number of reasons. I would say in most cases the bechdel test is a good step one for "is this a well written female character" in that 90% of the females that fail the test are also not well written.
Also not to lose our way as the song loves to put it.
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