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Toonami |May14| Toonami just got a lot Cooler

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Man God

Non-Canon Member
I take umbrage with MM calling Yamcha a competent fighter pre Z.

Tien, sure, he can win without the help of a shape changing cat, but Yamcha is basically a jobber who once kinda tied a very tried, very young goku.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Then I would disagree, because while Toriyama's choice with the character doesn't make him look great on an audience outlook, within the world itself, he's treated as anything but. Whenever he loses a battle, all the characters, including Goku, treat it like a huge shock. This is commonly known as the "Worf Effect"

For example, in the manga, when Yamcha loses to Jackie Chun, Goku's response isn't "omg yamcha sux" it's "Oh shit, Jackie Chun beat Yamcha? Jackie Chun is a huge deal". Also Kami referred to Yamcha as a very great fighter, he just had bad luck.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
In the sense that Yamcha has god like Superman powers by the end of DB, sure, and I usually take an optimistic view on such things. He's unlucky that everyone in the series is better than him.

Krillin is at least as strong by the end of DB though
 

Moaradin

Member
Yamcha was made out to be a joke after he was jobbing not even a full episode after he was introduced. It's hard to ever take him seriously.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Weaker than Tenshinhan and Krillin by the end of DBZ, and stronger than Yajirobe and Chaozu.

In terms of the human, he is right in the middle. I mean I'm not even a big fan of the guy, but that is hardly "everyone in the series is better than him"
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Weaker than Tenshinhan and Krillin by the end of DBZ, and stronger than Yajirobe and Chaozu.

In terms of the human, he is right in the middle. I mean I'm not even a big fan of the guy, but that is hardly "everyone in the series is better than him"

Yajirobe sat on his ass and ate rice for the whole series. Mister Satan could have given him a hard time.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Yajirobe sat on his ass and ate rice for the whole series. Mister Satan could have given him a hard time.

I doubt it, since Yajirobe is superhuman thanks to his Kami training.

Anyway my main argument still stands. I fail to see how any of the main humans (Krillin, Ten, Chaozu, Yamcha) are less skilled in combat than the Half-Saiyans (Trunks, Goten, Future Trunks, Gohan).
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Yajirobe cut Vegeta's tail off. If it wasn't for him there wouldn't have been a rest of Z.
Still the best DBZ fight, because it was the last time a fight was decided by teamwork and everybody putting everything on the line, instead of super saiyan vs final form bullshit.

Goku was clearly the most powerful of the good guys, but everybody (except Yamaha) brought something to the table.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Jackie Chun said Tenshinhan was a great fighter, and likewise Kami said the same about Yamcha. Meanwhile Cell called Trunks out on his fighting abilities, while Gohan's skill was called out during the Dabura fight. That's my logic of reasoning.

There's my logic of reasoning. I'm not really seeing any proof that the half-Saiyans are better fighters except that they were born with hax powers.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Still the best DBZ fight, because it was the last time a fight was decided by teamwork and everybody putting everything on the line, instead of super saiyan vs final form bullshit.

Goku was clearly the most powerful of the good guys, but everybody (except Yamaha) brought something to the table.

Frieza has all of that and more. He keeps coming back like JASON!
 

MikeMyers

Member
Agreed with htown, the Saiyan Arc is the last arc I like.

Freeza was just a rehash of Vegeta (even his fight was similar). Cell and Buu didn't even have a proper motivation or a connection to the people who killed them.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
I probably would have ended the series with Freiza and I think it's the last legitimately great fight. Especially the pre SSJ stuff.

Then again I'm not a beloved Japanese millionaire who seemingly forgets lots about the work he's best known for, so what do I know?

Cell and Buu are just rehashes.
 

MikeMyers

Member
I used to love Freeza, but a re-read made me realize he is just a rehash of Vegeta. Both are arrogant Princes who claim to be the strongest in the universe, want the Dragon Balls for immortality, and both fuck up with the Destructo Disk that leads to their downfall.

Until after Namek, then Freeza becomes a remake of Cyborg Tao.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
I think the difference for me is that Vegeta always seemed to be beatable though tough as hell and stronger than Goku while Freiza always gave off the impression that he really was just fucking with them and only got caught off guard temporarily. It's a subtle distinction and cutting hairs as well (Vegeta probably seemed plenty impossible for Krillin/Piccilo/Gohan) but there you have it.

Meanwhile Cell is literally just everyone thrown into a blender and Buu is magic pink, dumb as bricks but bloodthirsty Cell. It's too much.

TL:DR: Vegeta is a powerful prince while Freiza is a GOD.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Eh, I think I like Vegeta better. Freeza doesn't really have any backstroy. We get the whole thing with the Saiyans, but even there he is still the same person as he is in the present. With Vegeta, we just know that he comes from some barbaric race that does whatever it wants to survive. That isn't deep, but at least it is something. Vegeta also doesn't really have any asspulls, except for maybe creating the Moon Ball. Freeza on the other hand is full of I'M NOT REALLY LEFT HANDED moments ("You thought my transformation was my real power? I can power up even when transformed! I can power up even when transformed again! I can tranform two more times! I'm actually only using way less than half of my full power! I can survive in the vacuum of space, apparently!")
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Freiza is very upfront about only using a fraction of his true power from the beginning...it's just that Vegeta doesn't believe his boasting.
 

MikeMyers

Member
t's just that Vegeta doesn't believe his boasting.

And Piccolo (allows Freeza to reach his third form), and Goku (doesnt believe Freeza is using half his power).

On a flip note, of the shows on Toonami, which do you think is most like DBZ? I would say Bleach.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Sailor V doesn't even have her own solo adventures. Or are you going by the comic? Because the the others are introduced straight away.

And Usagi still a better protagonist than Goku not bad, but definitly my least favourite of the Senshi. Well her and Chibiusa.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
Sailor V doesn't even have her own solo adventures. Or are you going by the comic? Because the the others are introduced straight away.

And Usagi still a better protagonist than Goku not bad, but definitly my least favourite of the Senshi. Well her and Chibiusa.

My biggest problem is Usagi is a literal crybaby whose cries are horrible enough to be weaponized.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Hey let's focus almost an entire season on Chibiusa, what could ever go wrong here? Let's give her her own SSJ transformation!

She's also a large focus in two better seasons, but still!
 

MikeMyers

Member
She grows out of it eventually.

Season 1 is all about Mamoru and Rei anyway. Mamoru becomes bland after the first season, so substitute Mamoru for Minako in later seasons.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Too many god damn M names. It's too confusing! At least when I watch the original sub versions my brain just inserts the proper Americanized names.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Sailor V doesn't even have her own solo adventures. Or are you going by the comic? Because the the others are introduced straight away.

And Usagi still a better protagonist than Goku not bad, but definitly my least favourite of the Senshi. Well her and Chibiusa.

Yeah, I was talking about Codename:Sailor V.

I'd love an anime adaptation of that.
 

Seda

Member
Blue Exorcist is going to become the new hate watch,
it goes full on stupid here soon.
That's all I'll say.

I'm not feeling it at all recently. I don't want my complaining to get in the way of those enjoying it though, so I'll probably just be more quiet when it's airing.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
No but I can understand why they would. Never liked the original names even after seeing them for nearly two decades of watching the show. I knew a guy big into Sailor Moon tape trading with awful HK dubs so I've been kicking it in this scene since around the time DIC started...and I just can't get used to them.

I won't boycott an updated, uncut dub of it. That's silly. The US version has enough problems that this one annoyance won't get me to not buy it.

Would I pay money for a version with the US names? You bet your ass I would. In a heartbeat. Maybe they'll take the hint from how DBZ was treated and have a just splice in the American names version!

EDIT: Seda you're too damn polite and I doubt you'll find anyone here who cares enough about BE to adamantly defend it. I think it's been okay lately and my only real concern was with the new character's top being too damn small. Wearing the incorrect size is uncomfortable and not really all that attractive!
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
No but I can understand why they would. Never liked the original names even after seeing them for nearly two decades of watching the show. I knew a guy big into Sailor Moon tape trading with awful HK dubs so I've been kicking it in this scene since around the time DIC started...and I just can't get used to them.

I won't boycott an updated, uncut dub of it. That's silly. The US version has enough problems that this one annoyance won't get me to not buy it.


Would I pay money for a version with the US names? You bet your ass I would. In a heartbeat. Maybe they'll take the hint from how DBZ was treated and have a just splice in the American names version!

EDIT: Seda you're too damn polite and I doubt you'll find anyone here who cares enough about BE to adamantly defend it. I think it's been okay lately and my only real concern was with the new character's top being too damn small. Wearing the incorrect size is uncomfortable and not really all that attractive!

Yea, don't do that, that mindset lead to some of the stupidest screeds I have seen on the internet in awhile.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
I guess you're right, it wouldn't be impossible to compile the original.

You'd be missing a lot of stuff though, parts of a couple episodes and an episode here and there.
 
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