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Toonami |Oct/Nov/Dec16| A Bacchanalia of Blood

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Not open for further replies.
J

Jarate

Banned
Zonic said:
& having 11:30 back is also a good thing. From DeMarco's point of view, I fully understand this will be a good thing for the block.

Too bad the completionist in me tells me "ONE MORE ARC, AND YOU'VE SEEN KAI FULLY" & I feel as though if I don't see it, then any opinions I might have about it wouldn't "count" because "oh you didn't see it? then how can you have an opinion on something you don't know about/only heard of?"

*checks Wiki for episode count*.....so wait, it's split into TWO arcs? One is 44 episodes, then the other is 35, for a grand total of 79 episodes.....

......if I skip it, will I be correct in all the assumptions I have in that it's just going to be yet another copy/paste, but somehow WORSE pacing & decision making compared to Cell?
Click to expand...

Honestly it's worth a hate watch for you. There are some really good aspects if the Buu Saga, but there's so many stupid design decisions as well.
 
B

BassForever

Member
Zonic said:
& having 11:30 back is also a good thing. From DeMarco's point of view, I fully understand this will be a good thing for the block.

Too bad the completionist in me tells me "ONE MORE ARC, AND YOU'VE SEEN KAI FULLY" & I feel as though if I don't see it, then any opinions I might have about it wouldn't "count" because "oh you didn't see it? then how can you have an opinion on something you don't know about/only heard of?"

*checks Wiki for episode count*.....so wait, it's split into TWO arcs? One is 44 episodes, then the other is 35, for a grand total of 79 episodes.....

......if I skip it, will I be correct in all the assumptions I have in that it's just going to be yet another copy/paste, but somehow WORSE pacing & decision making compared to Cell?
Click to expand...

No because Buu Kai is the worst arc and if Sayian/Freeza arcs didn't sell you on DBZ then Cell/Buu isn't going to win you over either.
 
B

BBboy20

Member
fdO45Py.jpg


I swear, I am not a fanboy.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
|Jan17| Super Buu this arc. Buuuuuuuuu

So that's 2 for "get out while you still can" & 1 for "let the hate flow through you". I'm just trying to think what I could do to pass the time while waiting for Jojo after watching Super. I usually hop on to Pokemon Shuffle when Shippuden comes on & check other online stuff. Not much to check on only after one show ending at midnight.
 
B

BassForever

Member
There is no reason to "finish a show/game" if you aren't enjoying it life is too short. Its one thing if you find enjoyment from your hate/frustration of it like we do with SAO or I do with Danganronpa, but if DBZ Kai just doesn't interest you and watching it with toonami gaf doesn't make it bearable use the time to play or watch something else.

Another good question is what happens with attack on titan? S2 is airing in Japan this spring and you know funimation and toonami are gonna want to jump all over that simuldub.
 
gamerguy2002

gamerguy2002

Member
Zonic said:
|Jan17| Super Buu this arc. Buuuuuuuuu

So that's 2 for "get out while you still can" & 1 for "let the hate flow through you". I'm just trying to think what I could do to pass the time while waiting for Jojo after watching Super. I usually hop on to Pokemon Shuffle when Shippuden comes on & check other online stuff. Not much to check on only after one show ending at midnight.
Click to expand...

If you're that indecisive on Buu Kai, Do the internet's coinflip and run a poll! whatever wins is what you'll do.
 
M

Mizerman

Member
Zonic said:
& having 11:30 back is also a good thing. From DeMarco's point of view, I fully understand this will be a good thing for the block.

Too bad the completionist in me tells me "ONE MORE ARC, AND YOU'VE SEEN KAI FULLY" & I feel as though if I don't see it, then any opinions I might have about it wouldn't "count" because "oh you didn't see it? then how can you have an opinion on something you don't know about/only heard of?"

*checks Wiki for episode count*.....so wait, it's split into TWO arcs? One is 44 episodes, then the other is 35, for a grand total of 79 episodes.....

......if I skip it, will I be correct in all the assumptions I have in that it's just going to be yet another copy/paste, but somehow WORSE pacing & decision making compared to Cell?
Click to expand...

All I can say is that if the Cell arc bored you, the Buu arc won't be any better.
 
D

Dr. Chaotix

Member
The Buu arc will go by much quicker if you just read it in the manga format I think. Of course, that's for anyone super on the fence about it.

What was it that Toriyama said about the Buu arc again? Something about it being nothing but one big long fight and how it made him never want to do a fighting manga again? Wish I could find that shit.
 
C

Crimson_Echidna

Banned
Dr. Chaotix said:
The Buu arc will go by much quicker if you just read it in the manga format I think. Of course, that's for anyone super on the fence about it.

What was it that Toriyama said about the Buu arc again? Something about it being nothing but one big long fight and how it made him never want to do a fighting manga again? Wish I could find that shit.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that, but I do know Toriyama said he wrote the
Gotenks vs. Buu
fight the way he did as stress release. That would also explain why Mr. Satan was more prominent in the Buu Saga.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Ya know what. I think for my sanity & for the sake of everyone group watching what they acknowledge is a nostalgia trip, I'm just going to skip Buu.

It sounds like all the criticisms I have with Cell would just carry on over to Buu, especially if fans consider it somehow worse. My main fear was that, if I skipped it, my opinions about the series as a whole would hold less weight because "wut, you didn't see ### arc? That's when it gets good!", i.e. why I'm being patient with HxH & the whole Nen thing, because I'm hopeful it will be used in more interesting ways & I've been enjoying it so far. & from what I've noticed, despite a few moments like Cell just being all "lulz i'm still alive after using self destruct also i'm back in form 3 mode somehow", I'm easily the most harsh on the show as a whole due to my lack of nostalgia & this being my first time seeing it, not as a kid who's being introduced to the world of anime, but as an adult who is able to reference numerous anime, let alone other shonen series. & as someone who tries to not be the negative person, I don't want to hamper anyone's viewing, especially if it's a childhood memory.

Dr. Chaotix said:
What was it that Toriyama said about the Buu arc again? Something about it being nothing but one big long fight and how it made him never want to do a fighting manga again? Wish I could find that shit.
Click to expand...
If even the author himself wasn't happy with how he did the arc, then damn, that kind of cements that I should just stay away.
 
M

Moaradin

Member
There's a lot of things I remember really liking about the Buu arc. It's been years since I've seen it though, so I'm actually really interested in watching it again with better pacing and an updated dub.
 
B

BassForever

Member
Don't get me wrong buu arc has some great moments and I'd at least watch the first 10 or so episodes with Videl and Sayiaman, honestly I'd say everything up to super buu is really solid and thats when things quickly unravel
 
C

ckohler

Member
I know little about the Buu arc so I'm intrigued and Videl looks like a cool character. I'm glad we're getting Super and I would have preferred it to Buu but getting both is fine with me, especially since we're gaining 30 minutes and not sacrificing any slots to do it.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
So Buu doesn't actually "start" until episode 106, when he actually appears? I guess I'll stick with Kai until then, but as soon as Buu is mentioned, I'm out.

Looking at the upcoming episodes, it seems there's just a mini-arc that's not very long that's between cell & buu?

BassForever said:
Don't get me wrong buu arc has some great moments and I'd at least watch the first 10 or so episodes with Videl and Sayiaman, honestly I'd say everything up to super buu is really solid and thats when things quickly unravel
Click to expand...
Those episodes sound like they'll be a nice break from the awful pacing & could be Toriyama just wanting to go back to his humor roots, hence why I'm partly interested in Super, especially if it contains new scenes from Battle of Gods.
 
B

BassForever

Member
Zonic said:
So Buu doesn't actually "start" until episode 106, when he actually appears? I guess I'll stick with Kai until then, but as soon as Buu is mentioned, I'm out.

Looking at the upcoming episodes, it seems there's just a mini-arc that's not very long that's between cell & buu?

Those episodes sound like they'll be a nice break from the awful pacing & could be Toriyama just wanting to go back to his humor roots, hence why I'm partly interested in Super, especially if it contains new scenes from Battle of Gods.
Click to expand...

I'd at least tune in for a few of the fights namely
goku vs majin vegeta, gotenks vs super buu, and vegetto vs super buu
since those are really awesome but depends upon how much you enjoy the fighting itself.

The problem with the buu saga isn't as much the characters making things worse by acting illogically for the sake of drama (the 2 note worth examples are actually established well imo) but the zurg rush of power ups that end up being meaningless. You know how piccolo is hyped as a super namekian for 5 minutes and then falls off? Thats every power up in the buu saga and the series has a string of them in a row.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Buu is magic and doesn't have to explain shit. He can also pretty much do anything Cell did, only better. Oh and then more magic nonsense.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Grexeno said:
Also we should make a pact right this second that none of us are watching the 8 PM airing.
Click to expand...
If it's like last time, I'm just gonna flat-out forget they're doing it.

BassForever said:
I'd at least tune in for a few of the fights namely
goku vs majin vegeta, gotenks vs super buu, and vegetto vs super buu
since those are really awesome but depends upon how much you enjoy the fighting itself.

The problem with the buu saga isn't as much the characters making things worse by acting illogically for the sake of drama (the 2 note worth examples are actually established well imo) but the zurg rush of power ups that end up being meaningless. You know how piccolo is hyped as a super namekian for 5 minutes and then falls off? Thats every power up in the buu saga and the series has a string of them in a row.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that just sounds frustrating, especially when some of my biggest issues are 1.) Nobody has an actual strategy aside from "get stronger" or "SHOOT A TON OF BEAMS", & 2.) the forms are just "my attacks do more damage".

.......and 3.) I don't feel like the fighting is all that good when it's mainly fast punches/kicks & shooting beams, but I also understand this is '90s Toei trying to make a crapton of episodes each week, so of course the animation isn't the best.

So I see this is split up into "two" parts, Majin Buu & "Evil Buu". & based on the episode summaries I'm looking at, in the first part, Buu actually only really appears about half way through & it's basically 26 episodes?

From the sounds of it, maybe I should just watch until either A.) Buu actually truly appears, or B.) this 2nd half of the arc.
 
B

BassForever

Member
Zonic said:
If it's like last time, I'm just gonna flat-out forget they're doing it.

Yeah, that just sounds frustrating, especially when some of my biggest issues are 1.) Nobody has an actual strategy aside from "get stronger" or "SHOOT A TON OF BEAMS", & 2.) the forms are just "my attacks do more damage".

.......and 3.) I don't feel like the fighting is all that good when it's mainly fast punches/kicks & shooting beams, but I also understand this is '90s Toei trying to make a crapton of episodes each week, so of course the animation isn't the best.

So I see this is split up into "two" parts, Majin Buu & "Evil Buu". & based on the episode summaries I'm looking at, in the first part, Buu actually only really appears about half way through & it's basically 26 episodes?

From the sounds of it, maybe I should just watch until either A.) Buu actually truly appears, or B.) this 2nd half of the arc.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd say second half of the arc is really where things fall apart and many of the issues that frustrated you really become frustrating even for die hard fans. Honestly initial majin buu is a pretty fun antagonist, "evil" buu is really the sign when things fall apart. Its actually very bleach like in terms of how things play out from that point until the finale which is probably worth looking at since its referenced in super.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
BassForever said:
Yeah I'd say second half of the arc is really where things fall apart and many of the issues that frustrated you really become frustrating even for die hard fans. Honestly initial majin buu is a pretty fun antagonist, "evil" buu is really the sign when things fall apart. Its actually very bleach like in terms of how things play out from that point until the finale which is probably worth looking at since its referenced in super.
Click to expand...
Alright, it sounds like I'll stick around until "evil" buu comes around. Honestly, it's when the villain gets a 2nd or more annoying a 3rd form when it feels like it starts to drag, like when Perfect Cell was introduced, that's probably when the pacing became even worse because it felt like they were finding new ways to drag it out.

Transformations are fine, but make it feel like they're actually different instead of "hey I changed my look & my punches hit harder now"
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Late, but I'm surprised both shows are airing. It just seems like bad planning, likely on Toei's part. Still, it'll be nice to watch Super at last.
 
S

Sibersk Esto

Banned
Zonic said:
Transformations are fine, but make it feel like they're actually different instead of "hey I changed my look & my punches hit harder now"
Click to expand...

This is an interesting point because the actual reasoning for Majin Buu's transformation is more nuanced than just I WANT TO BE STRONGER NOW.

At least the first time.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
The reason for all of Buu's forms, especially the first, second, and final form are pretty interesting on paper. In execution however...
 
C

Chaotic-Strike

Banned
I think the one positive I can say about the Buu saga is the animation. Most of the fights are fairly well animated during this saga.

I just hope Funimation did something about the green tint that we're probably going to get.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
So what was the episode count difference between Android + Cell arcs in Kai & the original? I can only find that Buu is a total of 69 episodes long in comparison to its 167 episodes for the extended international version.

..................how the hell do you shave off almost ONE HUNDRED episodes from one arc?
 
T

TheGamingBox

Banned
Zonic said:
So what was the episode count difference between Android + Cell arcs in Kai & the original? I can only find that Buu is a total of 69 episodes long in comparison to its 167 episodes for the extended international version.

..................how the hell do you shave off almost ONE HUNDRED episodes from one arc?
Click to expand...

you read wrong

167 is total episodes of kai including buu, buu kai is around 68 episodes i believe
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
My bad, I misread what the DBZ Wiki said. 167 episodes for Kai in total, not just Buu.

Okay, found a better detailed comparison.

Saiyan arc: 35 episodes original, 16 Kai, difference of 19 episodes
Namek arc: 39 episodes original, 14 Kai, difference of 25 episodes
Frieza arc: 33 episodes original, 24 Kai, difference of 9 episodes
"Artificial Human" arc: 22 episodes origional, 13 Kai, difference of 9 episodes
Cell arc: 55 episodes original, 31 Kai, difference of 24 episodes
 
D

Dr. Chaotix

Member
I just bought me and my friend tickets for One Piece: Film Gold. I'm so lucky there's a showing at the theater I always go to. It won't be showing until January but whatever. I've got my seats dammit.
 
gamerguy2002

gamerguy2002

Member
Zonic said:
My bad, I misread what the DBZ Wiki said. 167 episodes for Kai in total, not just Buu.

Okay, found a better detailed comparison.

Saiyan arc: 35 episodes original, 16 Kai, difference of 19 episodes
Namek arc: 38 episodes original, 13 Kai, difference of 25 episodes
Frieza arc: 32 episodes original, 23 Kai, difference of 9 episodes
"Artificial Human" arc: 21 episodes original, 12 Kai, difference of 9 episodes
Cell arc: 54 episodes original, 30 Kai, difference of 24 episodes
Click to expand...

Wait, thats only 94 episodes. you're missing 4.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Zonic said:
My bad, I misread what the DBZ Wiki said. 167 episodes for Kai in total, not just Buu.

Okay, found a better detailed comparison.

Saiyan arc: 35 episodes original, 16 Kai, difference of 19 episodes
Namek arc: 38 episodes original, 13 Kai, difference of 25 episodes
Frieza arc: 32 episodes original, 23 Kai, difference of 9 episodes
"Artificial Human" arc: 21 episodes origional, 12 Kai, difference of 9 episodes
Cell arc: 54 episodes original, 30 Kai, difference of 24 episodes
Click to expand...

Not to mention the filler arc skipped between Frieza and Android Sagas.
 
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