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Toonami |Oct14| A Place for Manly Souls

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Soulflarz

Banned
Dont wana waste a whole page w/ us quoting you, but yeah Seda, id strongly agree on the dynamic/static sense

If a character is great in how they act, why the hell would I get mad at the show for not changing them? I think some characters shouldnt change in major ways. Obviously, some definently should, but it really isnt a "yes it must happen" situation.
 

Seda

Member
but Sakura

Sakura's isn't a very good character because her motivations are godawful, barely contributes despite how much of her we see, and because her motivations are godawful. Having her around so often simply balloons those issues. It's a combination of things that noticeably takes its toll on the Naruto narrative.


EDIT: I disgressed a bit. My point was, CWarrior's critcism of Gurren Lagann seemed to focus on how Simon is at the center of things and that there are a number of characters 'in the background'. That alone doesn't really.....say anything.
 

LOLDSFAN

Member
Just watched the Smash live-stream.

Z1syen6.gif
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
That whole "Own both copies of Smash to get DLC chars" is bullshit and not at all shocking that it came from Nintendo.

...how exactly is getting a character you'd have to pay for for free if you buy both versions, which are completely different games might I remind you bullshit?

Also keep in mind that the character isn't one they just pulled from the game to offer as DLC and that it's actually additional work going into the game, hence the spring release date.
 

Moaradin

Member
Yeah, I don't get this Smash DLC "outrage". It's just a little promotion for people that own both versions of the game. What's wrong with that? There is a 99.9% chance you'll be able buy the character separately.
 

Seda

Member
The one criticism I can sort of understand is if you are totally anti-microtransaction and believe that all add-ons should always be free.

It's clear that Smash Wii U is a complete, fully functional game with a large roster and a plethora of modes. It's a game that's been in the oven for a while and is seemingly clearly ready to ship. But the dev wants to make more content for it still, so they throw fans a bone to bring back a favorite that they didn't initially develop prior to release. You could argue that they should have taken the effort to put him in while they were developing the game, but there's always the opportunity to include /more/ afterwards - whenever a game decides to ship, whatever it includes. You could also argue it should be free, which, sure, that'd be nice, - but the resources put into the DLC creation certainly aren't free.



Really the only thing weird here is how they decided to announce the promotional details but not the regular pricing details.
 
...how exactly is getting a character you'd have to pay for for free if you buy both versions, which are completely different games might I remind you bullshit?

Also keep in mind that the character isn't one they just pulled from the game to offer as DLC and that it's actually additional work going into the game, hence the spring release date.

Because I don't want to pay for two games to use a character in for the one game I only plan to play. Hell I'd be fine if the charge more than what's standard for a fighting game character if I can just get MewTwo in Wii U alone.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Because I don't want to pay for two games to use a character I'll only use in one game. Hell I'd be fine if the charge more than what's standard for a fighting game character if I can just get MewTwo in Wii U alone.

So don't? Just buy the character when he comes out.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
My DLC policy is a combination of many things to see whether or not I'll buy it.

1. Is it worth the cost? Most important. A really cool costume might be worth a buck, an extra map that you're only going to play once meanwhile isn't worth 3-5 bucks. A really bad costume isn't worth any price, not for completion sake.

2. Was this obviously something that was cut from the game just to be sold? This loses major points and I'll usually skip the entire game if I find out about it. Street Fighter Versus Tekken is the prime example.

3. What does it actually add to the game? Cosmetic only DLC usually goes far down the peg for me, it has to be really cheap or really good for me to jump. Multiplayer maps are also usually far down the depth chart unless it's something like Mario Kart 8 where that's the entire meat of the game. Characters and new scenarios is where it is at, though you can get Character DLC that is only a step above cosmetic.

So far the best DLC has been stuff like Borderlands, lots of content at a fair price, comes a bit after so it's probably stuff that wasn't ripped from the game.

Nintendo also has a good DLC track record. Awakening's was a bit hit or miss but the prices were decent but the Mario Kart 8 and Mario Golf 3DS packs have been shockingly good value, almost akin to old school expansion packs at extremely low prices for what they provide.
 

Seda

Member
My DLC policy is a combination of many things to see whether or not I'll buy it.

1. Is it worth the cost? Most important. A really cool costume might be worth a buck, an extra map that you're only going to play once meanwhile isn't worth 3-5 bucks. A really bad costume isn't worth any price, not for completion sake.

2. Was this obviously something that was cut from the game just to be sold? This loses major points and I'll usually skip the entire game if I find out about it. Street Fighter Versus Tekken is the prime example.

3. What does it actually add to the game? Cosmetic only DLC usually goes far down the peg for me, it has to be really cheap or really good for me to jump. Multiplayer maps are also usually far down the depth chart unless it's something like Mario Kart 8 where that's the entire meat of the game. Characters and new scenarios is where it is at, though you can get Character DLC that is only a step above cosmetic.

So far the best DLC has been stuff like Borderlands, lots of content at a fair price, comes a bit after so it's probably stuff that wasn't ripped from the game.

Nintendo also has a good DLC track record. Awakening's was a bit hit or miss but the prices were decent but the Mario Kart 8 and Mario Golf 3DS packs have been shockingly good value, almost akin to old school expansion packs at extremely low prices for what they provide.

yep, pretty reasonable.
 

Raxus

Member
Man god's opinion on DLC are canon in my eyes. It is a shame we are getting less and less value out of DLC.

Destiny is really bad for this as well.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
My DLC policy is a combination of many things to see whether or not I'll buy it.

1. Is it worth the cost? Most important. A really cool costume might be worth a buck, an extra map that you're only going to play once meanwhile isn't worth 3-5 bucks. A really bad costume isn't worth any price, not for completion sake.

2. Was this obviously something that was cut from the game just to be sold? This loses major points and I'll usually skip the entire game if I find out about it. Street Fighter Versus Tekken is the prime example.

3. What does it actually add to the game? Cosmetic only DLC usually goes far down the peg for me, it has to be really cheap or really good for me to jump. Multiplayer maps are also usually far down the depth chart unless it's something like Mario Kart 8 where that's the entire meat of the game. Characters and new scenarios is where it is at, though you can get Character DLC that is only a step above cosmetic.

So far the best DLC has been stuff like Borderlands, lots of content at a fair price, comes a bit after so it's probably stuff that wasn't ripped from the game.

Nintendo also has a good DLC track record. Awakening's was a bit hit or miss but the prices were decent but the Mario Kart 8 and Mario Golf 3DS packs have been shockingly good value, almost akin to old school expansion packs at extremely low prices for what they provide.

My thoughts exactly. You are talking perfect sense.
 
My DLC policy is a combination of many things to see whether or not I'll buy it.

1. Is it worth the cost? Most important. A really cool costume might be worth a buck, an extra map that you're only going to play once meanwhile isn't worth 3-5 bucks. A really bad costume isn't worth any price, not for completion sake.

2. Was this obviously something that was cut from the game just to be sold? This loses major points and I'll usually skip the entire game if I find out about it. Street Fighter Versus Tekken is the prime example.

3. What does it actually add to the game? Cosmetic only DLC usually goes far down the peg for me, it has to be really cheap or really good for me to jump. Multiplayer maps are also usually far down the depth chart unless it's something like Mario Kart 8 where that's the entire meat of the game. Characters and new scenarios is where it is at, though you can get Character DLC that is only a step above cosmetic.

So far the best DLC has been stuff like Borderlands, lots of content at a fair price, comes a bit after so it's probably stuff that wasn't ripped from the game.

Nintendo also has a good DLC track record. Awakening's was a bit hit or miss but the prices were decent but the Mario Kart 8 and Mario Golf 3DS packs have been shockingly good value, almost akin to old school expansion packs at extremely low prices for what they provide.

The perfect way to buy DLC. One I'll never be able to follow if all the money I put down on Ultimax shows me.
 

Cwarrior

Member
You also can't expect every character to have the same level of significance to the plot. Like, you probably shouldn't criticize a narrative for simply spending the majority of time developing around the main character. Of course, the extent to which a narrative does this can differ and be discussed, and every character should have some /reason/ for being introduced in the first place. However, some characters are going to be prominent and some are going to be supporting. You can argue why a particular character should or not be more prevalent, but a criticism of a character simply because of their importance, is pretty weak to stand on its own, really.

I kind of evaluate characters in two ways. 1.) Their character personality and motivations, and how the character may grow throughout the series. 2.) Their role in the narrative as a whole and what they contribute in plot development. There are some characters I like that really don't do much (and could probably be removed without too much hassle), but I still appreciate for some character trait or personality. Conversely, there are number of unlikable characters that exhibit a /useful/ role in a plotline.

A lot of left field stuff, it would be unrealistic to expect every character to have the same level of significance to the plot when there exist the method of having different class for characters in a story (like main character,secondary characters ect).

But what at the same time it's riddiclous how little to any effect the other characters have on the going ons in the plot, there action don't change anything which makes any times spent watching there actions in the fight less meaningful...you will understand this point on the later end of the show (also doesn't help a lot are 1 tone characters).


(I should note that I oftentimes see people imply that static characters == bad and dynamic characters == good. This is simply not the case as I see it. Good characters don't necessarily have to significantly change throughout the series, and dramatic character development is not automatically good.)

Obviously I haven't seen the series in whole so this is subject to change.

ehhh yeah well am not one those people that spout that dumb notion, I strongly agree with you on that subject.

I don't think this is a point you will fully understand until you finish the show, a lot of the flaws in the poor written story becomes more apparent the further you go through in the later end.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
I can create a sub account and let you watch through Adult Swim if it comes down to that. Let me know by Saturday.

Probably the only option I got since I have no clue when this dispute is going to end. It is either that or I retire from Toonami posting for the duration.
 

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
is it weird to not care about Destiny?
I was not caring about Destiny before it was cool.

.....seriously, instantly when I heard it was a shooter, my interest dropped to -100.

So think we'll get a proper DBZ Kai commercial this week, or will we have to wait until next week.
 
It really boggles my mind how many people thought mewtwo was only for people who bought both versions. Especially when Nintendo tweets and pr mentioned "register both games during a promotional period to get free mewtwo dlc" obviously if you miss that promotional period and buy both games you'd still have to pay for him like anyone who buys only one version of the game.
 

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
It really boggles my mind how many people thought mewtwo was only for people who bought both versions. Especially when Nintendo tweets and pr mentioned "register both games during a promotional period to get free mewtwo dlc" obviously if you miss that promotional period and buy both games you'd still have to pay for him like anyone who buys only one version of the game.
Seriously. It's the OST that's only available to those who have both versions.

Mewtwo is obviously going to be DLC later on. Hell, part of me is expecting a season pass like with MK8 & Hyrule Warriors. Though they probably could've made it more clear when talking about it. Makes me wonder if he'll be cross-buy.
 

bigkrev

Member
It really boggles my mind how many people thought mewtwo was only for people who bought both versions. Especially when Nintendo tweets and pr mentioned "register both games during a promotional period to get free mewtwo dlc" obviously if you miss that promotional period and buy both games you'd still have to pay for him like anyone who buys only one version of the game.

Because it's Nintendo, who still doesn't have an online account system done correctly in 2014. It's not unreasonable to be skeptical.
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
This is one the many things wrong with granlaggan, it has so many characters but yet they mostly serve as nothing more then background wallpaper.they have little to no effect on the story while simon is the most important person in it's universe and most of the rest exist to artificial fill the room.
The rest wallpaper at best.

I'm not a fan of the modern "Shonen shows introduce characters because they suck at developing the ones they have!" mentality, but I never got this feel from GL. The whole show isn't just about 1 main protagonist, but at humanity fighting against the Gunmen / Beastmen, and how that effects them. You actually NEED such a large cast in this case, to make it feel as if this is something that's a world-scale, or at least country scale issue, rather than the goings-ons of 3 golden-children from a handful of villages.

I feel like it's closer to the praise One Piece gets for always referencing it's backstory, and respecting all details. If you want to make me feel like a world is fully developed and worth being in for loads of story, introducing the "texture" or the world through a large variety of characters that all know their place in the tale, is a good way. Personally, I like the way GL does it better than OP, but that's just how I feel, possibly strongly due to being an Anime-Only fan of the series.

I will say, up to the current point, I don't really think highly of Yoko. So far all she has contributed really is the introduction to the surface world and to Simon's funk in recent episodes. Otherwise, it seems she tags along for the simple reason that gunmen are bad and need to be stopped, and she had a crush on Kamina.

Obviously I haven't seen the series in whole so this is subject to change.

I can't take Yoko that lightly. I actually like the fact she's a decently effective footsoldier, which pretty much no one in the show is right now. She also was very nice to have around a few episodes back, while Kamina and Simon are so amazingly ignorant of the overworld. Something akin to playing through 2 hours of tutorial in a game sequel, only for the game to act as if you need to start over with it's world from square one. Having her to push us along felt good, and helped balance out their strong (but swiftly overcame) ignorance of simple things like "stars" or "basic animals".

She also sets up a nice foil for any upcoming females in the series. Our main men show us the more showy, and more meek sides of their races. Would we appreciate Nia or Adinae (however her name is spelled) if our only female contact in the series before them was, say, the Black Siblings?

Just watched the Smash live-stream.

Z1syen6.gif

I've really enjoyed Nintendo's recent streaming stuff. They've got personality, they have fun with their info, and they have worthwhile stuff to say. Considering my brother and I used to take turns going through all the "Single Player" content in older Smash, all the "Now it's 2 player!" stuff felt SO good to see.

Any DLC outrage is also funny to me. "We just spent a jam packed 30 min telling your of all this great awesome stuff, but what you'll mostly take away is your disagreement with DLC policies!" (-_-;) The only thing I was "mad" about... was that we'll have to wait until the spring to add MewTwo to the Roster, heh heh.

 

Tenumi

Banned
So correct me if I'm wrong, but currently, the schedule's looking a little like this.

11:30 PM: Attack on Titan
12:00 AM: DBZ Kai
12:30 AM: Naruto Shipuden
1:00 AM: One Piece
1:30 AM: Gurren Lagann
2:00 AM: Inuyasha: The Final Act
2:30 AM: ???
3:00 AM: Space Dandy
3:30 AM: Cowboy Bebop
4:00 AM: FMA: Brotherhood
4:30 AM: Ghost in the Shell 2nd Gig
5:00 AM Big O
5:30 AM: Samurai Jack
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
So correct me if I'm wrong, but currently, the schedule's looking a little like this.

11:30 PM: Attack on Titan
12:00 AM: DBZ Kai
12:30 AM: Naruto Shipuden
1:00 AM: One Piece
1:30 AM: Gurren Lagann
2:00 AM: Inuyasha: The Final Act
2:30 AM: ???
3:00 AM: Space Dandy
3:30 AM: Cowboy Bebop
4:00 AM: FMA: Brotherhood
4:30 AM: Ghost in the Shell 2nd Gig
5:00 AM Big O
5:30 AM: Samurai Jack

You're missing Hellsing Ultimate (it will be on Episode IX when Final Act starts)
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
YAY at Takahashi back on Toonami :) Another show I give up any chance of sketching to while it's on. I welcome the return of Weeklyasha to the block. The bumps now need to all star Mik~ Jaken!
 
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