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Toonami |OT7| I Don't Believe It
- Thread starter Seda
- Start date
- Status
Doctor Decimate
Member
i kinda wonder sometimes how stuff would've panned out if IGPX and Big O season 2 had been really successful, as far as networks like CN investing in the anime industry.
Doctor Decimate
Member
now i'm sad
Yep. At the very least, had those two shows done well, CN would have been keen to order others. Considering how well Avatar's done, and the fact it gets some inspiration from anime, Nick would order some as well.
All of that aside, there was still plenty of great shows that got dubs that never made it to TV. Full Metal Panic and Ippo for starters. For some reason no one wants to take a chance on the funniest anime of all time, Level E (written by Togashi himself), either. Something like ROD the TV could have done well here as well, for all it was lacking in plot as it went on it had a really good beginning and a good aesthetic (and the best anime OP of all time). I remember there was a time Adult Swim would show the first 9 episodes every Christmas Eve.
Seriously, if FLCL can work on Toonami so can Level E. That just bugs me. I really want to watch Level E with you guys, the reactions would be god-tier.
Doctor Decimate
Member
to the pre-block we go?
BassForever
Member
Woah how did Toonami GAF leave my subscriptions page :'(
Toonami Gaf has rejected your existence. :-(
Do it! And then soothe the tears of the soon-to-be crying women and men. ;-)
Yeah, I always felt it's good on it's own, but the ending isn't something I'd have wanted, when I first saw the opening of the first episode (which, y'know, they basically re-make at the end of the episode.) I started off with Noir and mystery, with a dark setting that injected a bit of Old school Mecha into classic movie mystery...
...and I end with some mind-frak Eva-like mass questioning of humanity, what it means to live, and a VR ground with Angel Rosewater getting spoken to by what could be a computer sim / SAO terminal.
WOHOO...?!? It's like they started out to make JP "Batman: TAS", and then figure out half way that they didn't know any more about how to explore the genre, so they skipped 10 years of mecha-anime ideas, while keeping a Captain Gloval "FIRE THE MAIN GUN!" Moment for the series end, just to make us feel kinda good...
For me, I love the fact that IGPX and Big O both tried very hard to be anime that reflected on what the genre did well, and then added another cultures perspective atop of it.
Takashi might come off as plain to some, but I feel like he faced his issues within the show run, and had more obvious growth than a comparable Gundam Pilot in his place, who'd have to watch 3 or 4 characters die, in order to reach the same place. :iz might have been a Tsundere half the time, but she wasn't oblivious to this; she actually started to realizie how messed up it was, and try to change herself. Amy is kinda the "cute mascot girl", but she actually has a few moments of admitting to being just as hot-blooded in moments as our main hero.
Many say they found early IGPX boring, but I always think it's great that the show seems to be constantly working on offering a more satisfying take on Action + Drama; almost each episode tried to offer a bit of each, and they minimalized the All-drama or all-action aspects fairly well. The Balance was greater in S2, but would 2 stand out as much, if 1 didn't exist? *shrug*
As for Big O, as mentioned, it combined a sophisticated Western Noir with Easter Giant Robots. Maybe it would have been more successful if it became even more dark and "adult", toting a line closer to Golgo 13 rather than a Shonen series. I would have loved to have seen Big O start a rend of tossing Eastern design and Western themes together more often; could have been the anime genre equivalent to Resident Evil games in a way, which have always mixed darker, grittier designs with gameplay that prides itself on arcade-born gameplay design concepts.
Sure, sounds like fun! I used to have a movie theater a town or two over that occasionally showed Import movies and Miyazaki animation... yet it closed down a couple years ago. I always wished I could go back, and take in a few more showings with them, as they offered something that I've not found as constant an equivalent for since...
Strangely, one of my first thoughts I had. Maybe meet some new people & make new acquaintances as well. Homework & such is starting to take its toll on me again, might be good to do something like that once in a while, even if the movie is sad.
Back in high school, I went with a friend to see the One Piece movie that was pretty much the retelling of the Alabasta arc. It was only us & I think one other family with younger kids. Only other anime/import they showed off the top of my head was the live-action Death Note film with the Funimation dub.
Oh god, my brother and I went to that. The theater was FILLED with a bunch of high school girls. It was kinda creepy!
BassForever
Member
Rating comparison 10/13/12 vs 10/12/13
10/13/12
12:00a Bleach 1,049,000
12:30a Samurai 7 831,000
1:00a Casshern SINS 738,000
1:30a Eureka 7 742,000
2:00a Sym-Bionic Titan 662,000
2:30a Thundercats 673,000
3:00a FMA: Brotherhood 687,000
3:30a FMA: Brotherhood 660,000
4:00a Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 628,000
4:30a Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 665,000
5:00a Cowboy Bebop 587,000
5:30a Cowboy Bebop 555,000
10/12/13
12:00a Bleach 1,044,000
12:30a Naruto 937,000
1:00a One Piece 843,000
1:30a Soul Eater 786,000
2:00a Sword Art Online 754,000
2:30a IGPX 688,000
3:00a Star Wars: The Clone Wars 724,000
3:30a Big O: Season 2 686,000
4:00a Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood 757,000
4:30a Cowboy Bebop 700,000
5:00a InuYasha 712,000
5:30a InuYasha 632,000
Increase or decrease from last year/this year
12:00a Bleach/Bleach -5,000
12:30a Samurai 7/Naruto +106,000
1:00a Casshern Sins/One Piece +105,000
1:30a Eureka 7/Soul Eater +12,000
2:00a Sym-Bionic Titan/SAO +92,000
2:30a Thundercats/IGPX +15,000
3:00a FMA:B/Clone Wars +37,000
3:30a FMA:B/Big O S2 +26,000
4:00a GitS/FMA:B +129,000
4:30a GitS/Cowboy Bebop +35,000
5:00a Cowboy Bebop/InuYasha +125,000
5:30a Cowboy Bebop/InuYasha +77,000
10/13/12
12:00a Bleach 1,049,000
12:30a Samurai 7 831,000
1:00a Casshern SINS 738,000
1:30a Eureka 7 742,000
2:00a Sym-Bionic Titan 662,000
2:30a Thundercats 673,000
3:00a FMA: Brotherhood 687,000
3:30a FMA: Brotherhood 660,000
4:00a Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 628,000
4:30a Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 665,000
5:00a Cowboy Bebop 587,000
5:30a Cowboy Bebop 555,000
10/12/13
12:00a Bleach 1,044,000
12:30a Naruto 937,000
1:00a One Piece 843,000
1:30a Soul Eater 786,000
2:00a Sword Art Online 754,000
2:30a IGPX 688,000
3:00a Star Wars: The Clone Wars 724,000
3:30a Big O: Season 2 686,000
4:00a Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood 757,000
4:30a Cowboy Bebop 700,000
5:00a InuYasha 712,000
5:30a InuYasha 632,000
Increase or decrease from last year/this year
12:00a Bleach/Bleach -5,000
12:30a Samurai 7/Naruto +106,000
1:00a Casshern Sins/One Piece +105,000
1:30a Eureka 7/Soul Eater +12,000
2:00a Sym-Bionic Titan/SAO +92,000
2:30a Thundercats/IGPX +15,000
3:00a FMA:B/Clone Wars +37,000
3:30a FMA:B/Big O S2 +26,000
4:00a GitS/FMA:B +129,000
4:30a GitS/Cowboy Bebop +35,000
5:00a Cowboy Bebop/InuYasha +125,000
5:30a Cowboy Bebop/InuYasha +77,000
Schadenfreude
Member
So why are you comparing two random weeks?
YoY growth is basically the metric by which most industries work.
Not TV though which cares quite a bit more about week to week results, though it's still a useful metric.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Ugh, that Alabasta movie was baaaaaad
BassForever
Member
What Man God said
I just enjoy seeing trends and how Toonami is growing, I could also put last week to this week if people are interested.
Honestly I just love numbers and comparisons, seeing how things are improving or declining
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Sorry I didn't get a chance to post my synopsis/analysis of the Big O season finale but here it is! I'll expand a little more on some deeper themes later but hopefully this stimulates some good discussion.
Now, SHOWTIME!
Episode 26 begins with Roger’s newspaper reading informant, Big Ear, stating, “Understand Roger, this city was created to be a stage, with no memory prior to 40 years ago. It’s nonsense to ask if memories exist. I just thought I would let you know.” To me, this tidbit of information suggests that there was nothing prior to “The Event” 40 years ago, lending more credibility to my theory of Paradigm City being stuck in an infinite time loop. The destruction and rebirth is a never ending cycle that revolves around the megadueces; they are the true actors on our stage.
Next we cut to the fight between Big O and Big Fau. Like I said in my earlier post, this show is full of religious symbolism. Did you notice how there is a cross in the cockpit of Big Fau right behind Alex Rosewater’s head? As we all know, Alex has a serious god complex; go back to episode 21 where he states that he will "create a new world and destroy those who don’t deserve to live in it." Alex’s self righteous claims and hubris seem to paint him as a false prophet capable of boasting nothing but blasphemy rather than being the all powerful deity he sees himself to be. Another thing I noticed to support this theory is how the hourglass wobbles whenever Alex makes an outrageous statement. I mean, look at this:
“It has absolutely no elegance at all. A clumsy megaduece piloted by nothing but a fake dominus”
*hourglass tilts*
“Oh? You want me to teach you what happens to watchdogs who bare their teeth at their master do you? This world has a new order now, it has a new god! Tell me, do the lives of people who don’t serve this order have any value!?”
*hourglass tilts*
“Yes of course…power must be demonstrated to the ignorant…HEY DAD, YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A COWARD AND A PUPPET. Well, I’m neither one of those and I’m going to prove it!”
After that last quote Big Fau sticks its cords into Rosewater’s back and begins to assimilate him.
While watching on Saturday I overlooked this part but it’s funny how Alex claims he is not a puppet mere seconds before becoming one, his unwavering arrogance is truly a sight to behold. I also mentioned during the live-watch this weekend that the hourglass symbolized that time was running out, which was accurate. Each boastful remark brought him closer and closer to the harsh reality that he is NOT Big Fau’s dominus and Alex was ultimately destined to end up being swallowed just like Schwartzwald and Alan before him.
Cutting back to Angel, we see her scars start to glow as the elder Rosewater cries out, “It’s that memory…it desperately wants to be remembered”. Dorothy wakes up without her memory core once Big O is tossed into the ocean. This is pretty significant, Dorothy is no longer controlled by memories, in essence she is the first person to break free of the cycle. Rejoice toonami-gaf, Dorothy has finally become free!
After leaving Roger to drown in his megaduece, Rosewater emerges from the sea and says to his megaduece, “Are you trying to absorb me into your systems Big Fau? I’m not like that pitiful reporter or even that sniveling cyborg. I am a true dominus! The one and only.” Notice how the hourglass begins to violently shake at this statement in vehement disagreement.
As Roger sinks to the bottom of the sea Big O attempts to assimilate him in order to save its pilot from dying after hearing Dorothy cry out "ROGERRR!". When the cords come out Roger laments, “Big O…is this what you want. If you do this, you and I will become one being. But, I’ve always been with you…isn’t that right? Big O then stops and Roger goes on, “Right, this is my decision” while the camera pans to him grinning.
Notice the difference between Alex and Roger in relation to their megdueces. Big O actually respects Roger’s opinion and lets him walk his own path while Big Fau rejects Alex as a true dominus and slowly absorbs him like every other false shepherd. Roger does not seek to be controlled; Alex is just another rotten tomato. After this exchange Dorothy remarks, “Roger Smith has made his decision”.
Cut to Angel and Gordon Rosewater
“Memories by nature are unreliable. They’ll degenerate and become fraudulent while they’re inside people’s minds. People subconsciously create these stories called memories.” As Gordon says this while carrying Angel away, the stage begins to disappear. This was my first hint that Angel is a megaduece with the power to erase time.
Sitting in the elevator, Angel remarks, "I just want to go back." To this Gordon responds, "With the memories of what time? At what point in time? You have the power to either contain or release them, even those memories of events prior to 40 years ago." Angel then slowly comes to the realization the SHE is the director, stating, "So then…now I'm the one making the choice?" Angel has finally come to the conclusion that she is controlling the events of this city. She has become the director for our story just as I had predicted. Think about the definition of a negotiator:
Negotiator - someone who negotiates (confers with others in order to reach a settlement)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/negotiator
Roger’s role in the story is to negotiate with the director to prevent the reset of Paradigm City so that the inhabitants may retain their memories. Think to the imagery in the flashback we witness this episode: A column of Big O’s marching through a city of flame and rubble, Big Duo’s flying in the sky, a battlefield littered with destroyed megadueces, a new megaduece we’ve never seen before shooting lazers, Roger Smith sitting dead within the cockpit of Big O, another Paradigm City materializing along with people appearing to populate it…This is the event! Every 40 years Paradigm City is destroyed in a megaduece war which triggers Big Venus to appear and “reset the stage” by deleting history and starting over again. This is why I said Paradigm City is stuck in an infinite loop.
I know some of you might be skeptical that Angel is actually a megaduece but for further proof, notice how in the final flashback, Big Venus initially has wings and then in the next scene is seen without them. Does that seem oddly familiar? Well it should toonami gaf, remember this line in reference to Angel: “A bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers and turn into the beast it was before it evolved into a bird.” The scars on Angel’s back look like wings, right? They also match the lights seen on the back of Big Venus when illuminated.
There’s some great lines and scenes before the final showdown that I’d like to point out.
Roger: Dorothy! You coulda come up with a gentler way to bring me around ya know! Like…mouth to mouth or something.”
Dorothy: Not with the displacement capacity of my air tank, you’re such a louse Roger Smith.”
Roger: You’re definitely our Dorothy
*Cue Beck laughing hysterically and doing his patented "foot clap" once Roger and Big O emerge from the sea*
Alex Rosewater: You plan on remaining half dead forever? Big Fau! I give you all that I am now, I know that’s what you wanted!”
*hourglass tips over and turns red*
Right before Roger can release his most powerful attack (thanks to Beck ironically), Big Venus appears and starts to rewrite Paradigm City – everything behind where it walks disappears which is how Rosewater and Big Fau are defeated; the two are simply erased from existence. Roger now stands to fulfill his role as negotiator and break this cycle that has occurred every 40 years for a seemingly infinite amount of time. He has become aware of his true purpose and is no longer a tomato, he is Roger the negotiator.
*Cue the hype music*
Roger: You must listen to me! The humans that are living here and now in the present are made up of more than their memories of the past. I myself don’t even know who I am! I don’t have a single solitary memory about myself! But I don’t believe anyone took them from me. I most likely erased them of my own free will…I was the one who made that choice! I made it for myself so I could live in the present and the future because I must go on believing there is a me!
Notice how Roger holds his arms up forming a cross with his body. I believe this was done intentionally; Angel is meant to represent Lucifer who had his wings plucked and fell from heaven. Roger here is a prophet (perhaps Jesus Christ?) attempting to negotiate humanity out of an endless cycle of sin and temptation – if we do not learn from our mistakes in the past we are bound to repeat them. We've seen the comparisons of Roger to Jesus before, remember this?
Moving on, Roger shouts to Big Venus/Angel, “You must stop denying your own existence! You have to live as a human being!” This causes Angel to shed a tear and change the role of the characters in the story – she doesn’t erase Paradigm back to the beginning. Instead things reset to Act 1 and the credits roll. We see Angel and Dorothy standing side by side smiling as Roger drives off in his car.
“My name is Roger Smith and I perform a much needed job here in this city of Amnesia”
Now, SHOWTIME!
Episode 26 begins with Roger’s newspaper reading informant, Big Ear, stating, “Understand Roger, this city was created to be a stage, with no memory prior to 40 years ago. It’s nonsense to ask if memories exist. I just thought I would let you know.” To me, this tidbit of information suggests that there was nothing prior to “The Event” 40 years ago, lending more credibility to my theory of Paradigm City being stuck in an infinite time loop. The destruction and rebirth is a never ending cycle that revolves around the megadueces; they are the true actors on our stage.
Next we cut to the fight between Big O and Big Fau. Like I said in my earlier post, this show is full of religious symbolism. Did you notice how there is a cross in the cockpit of Big Fau right behind Alex Rosewater’s head? As we all know, Alex has a serious god complex; go back to episode 21 where he states that he will "create a new world and destroy those who don’t deserve to live in it." Alex’s self righteous claims and hubris seem to paint him as a false prophet capable of boasting nothing but blasphemy rather than being the all powerful deity he sees himself to be. Another thing I noticed to support this theory is how the hourglass wobbles whenever Alex makes an outrageous statement. I mean, look at this:
“It has absolutely no elegance at all. A clumsy megaduece piloted by nothing but a fake dominus”
*hourglass tilts*
“Oh? You want me to teach you what happens to watchdogs who bare their teeth at their master do you? This world has a new order now, it has a new god! Tell me, do the lives of people who don’t serve this order have any value!?”
*hourglass tilts*
“Yes of course…power must be demonstrated to the ignorant…HEY DAD, YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A COWARD AND A PUPPET. Well, I’m neither one of those and I’m going to prove it!”
After that last quote Big Fau sticks its cords into Rosewater’s back and begins to assimilate him.
While watching on Saturday I overlooked this part but it’s funny how Alex claims he is not a puppet mere seconds before becoming one, his unwavering arrogance is truly a sight to behold. I also mentioned during the live-watch this weekend that the hourglass symbolized that time was running out, which was accurate. Each boastful remark brought him closer and closer to the harsh reality that he is NOT Big Fau’s dominus and Alex was ultimately destined to end up being swallowed just like Schwartzwald and Alan before him.
Cutting back to Angel, we see her scars start to glow as the elder Rosewater cries out, “It’s that memory…it desperately wants to be remembered”. Dorothy wakes up without her memory core once Big O is tossed into the ocean. This is pretty significant, Dorothy is no longer controlled by memories, in essence she is the first person to break free of the cycle. Rejoice toonami-gaf, Dorothy has finally become free!
After leaving Roger to drown in his megaduece, Rosewater emerges from the sea and says to his megaduece, “Are you trying to absorb me into your systems Big Fau? I’m not like that pitiful reporter or even that sniveling cyborg. I am a true dominus! The one and only.” Notice how the hourglass begins to violently shake at this statement in vehement disagreement.
As Roger sinks to the bottom of the sea Big O attempts to assimilate him in order to save its pilot from dying after hearing Dorothy cry out "ROGERRR!". When the cords come out Roger laments, “Big O…is this what you want. If you do this, you and I will become one being. But, I’ve always been with you…isn’t that right? Big O then stops and Roger goes on, “Right, this is my decision” while the camera pans to him grinning.
Notice the difference between Alex and Roger in relation to their megdueces. Big O actually respects Roger’s opinion and lets him walk his own path while Big Fau rejects Alex as a true dominus and slowly absorbs him like every other false shepherd. Roger does not seek to be controlled; Alex is just another rotten tomato. After this exchange Dorothy remarks, “Roger Smith has made his decision”.
Cut to Angel and Gordon Rosewater
“Memories by nature are unreliable. They’ll degenerate and become fraudulent while they’re inside people’s minds. People subconsciously create these stories called memories.” As Gordon says this while carrying Angel away, the stage begins to disappear. This was my first hint that Angel is a megaduece with the power to erase time.
Sitting in the elevator, Angel remarks, "I just want to go back." To this Gordon responds, "With the memories of what time? At what point in time? You have the power to either contain or release them, even those memories of events prior to 40 years ago." Angel then slowly comes to the realization the SHE is the director, stating, "So then…now I'm the one making the choice?" Angel has finally come to the conclusion that she is controlling the events of this city. She has become the director for our story just as I had predicted. Think about the definition of a negotiator:
Negotiator - someone who negotiates (confers with others in order to reach a settlement)
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/negotiator
Roger’s role in the story is to negotiate with the director to prevent the reset of Paradigm City so that the inhabitants may retain their memories. Think to the imagery in the flashback we witness this episode: A column of Big O’s marching through a city of flame and rubble, Big Duo’s flying in the sky, a battlefield littered with destroyed megadueces, a new megaduece we’ve never seen before shooting lazers, Roger Smith sitting dead within the cockpit of Big O, another Paradigm City materializing along with people appearing to populate it…This is the event! Every 40 years Paradigm City is destroyed in a megaduece war which triggers Big Venus to appear and “reset the stage” by deleting history and starting over again. This is why I said Paradigm City is stuck in an infinite loop.
I know some of you might be skeptical that Angel is actually a megaduece but for further proof, notice how in the final flashback, Big Venus initially has wings and then in the next scene is seen without them. Does that seem oddly familiar? Well it should toonami gaf, remember this line in reference to Angel: “A bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers and turn into the beast it was before it evolved into a bird.” The scars on Angel’s back look like wings, right? They also match the lights seen on the back of Big Venus when illuminated.
There’s some great lines and scenes before the final showdown that I’d like to point out.
Roger: Dorothy! You coulda come up with a gentler way to bring me around ya know! Like…mouth to mouth or something.”
Dorothy: Not with the displacement capacity of my air tank, you’re such a louse Roger Smith.”
Roger: You’re definitely our Dorothy
*Cue Beck laughing hysterically and doing his patented "foot clap" once Roger and Big O emerge from the sea*
Alex Rosewater: You plan on remaining half dead forever? Big Fau! I give you all that I am now, I know that’s what you wanted!”
*hourglass tips over and turns red*
Right before Roger can release his most powerful attack (thanks to Beck ironically), Big Venus appears and starts to rewrite Paradigm City – everything behind where it walks disappears which is how Rosewater and Big Fau are defeated; the two are simply erased from existence. Roger now stands to fulfill his role as negotiator and break this cycle that has occurred every 40 years for a seemingly infinite amount of time. He has become aware of his true purpose and is no longer a tomato, he is Roger the negotiator.
*Cue the hype music*
Roger: You must listen to me! The humans that are living here and now in the present are made up of more than their memories of the past. I myself don’t even know who I am! I don’t have a single solitary memory about myself! But I don’t believe anyone took them from me. I most likely erased them of my own free will…I was the one who made that choice! I made it for myself so I could live in the present and the future because I must go on believing there is a me!
Notice how Roger holds his arms up forming a cross with his body. I believe this was done intentionally; Angel is meant to represent Lucifer who had his wings plucked and fell from heaven. Roger here is a prophet (perhaps Jesus Christ?) attempting to negotiate humanity out of an endless cycle of sin and temptation – if we do not learn from our mistakes in the past we are bound to repeat them. We've seen the comparisons of Roger to Jesus before, remember this?
Moving on, Roger shouts to Big Venus/Angel, “You must stop denying your own existence! You have to live as a human being!” This causes Angel to shed a tear and change the role of the characters in the story – she doesn’t erase Paradigm back to the beginning. Instead things reset to Act 1 and the credits roll. We see Angel and Dorothy standing side by side smiling as Roger drives off in his car.
“My name is Roger Smith and I perform a much needed job here in this city of Amnesia”
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Gucci Messiah
Banned
My memory is a little fuzzy on that, I thought he was absorbed. I'll have to go back and watch. Still, the point was that none of the people piloting Big Fau were its true dominus.
Top tier music, really gives you goosebumps. However, this is my favorite:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhtZWkNa3YU
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Yes, she is the megaduece. We see Angel as a human for most of the series but she clearly has more than one form, the second manifestation being Big Venus.
"A bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers and turn into the beast it was before it evolved into a bird."
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
I don't think you get the symbolism behind the scars, you have to look at the deeper meaning rather than focusing on what happens at the surface. That's mandatory to truly understanding the story, otherwise you'll be lost. And Angel has had those scars since childhood, not from being jacked into Big Venus. It has no pilot like the others, that's why Roger refers to it as "Angel" when attempting to negotiate. They are one being.
It's both. Venus is her avatar. The world of Big O is the adaptation of a book written by Angel. Roger was hired by Rosewater. He's the main actor, Gordon Rosewater is the director. They are all actors on the stage of Paradigm. It's basically The Truman Show, except everything is the show and we are the audience. The first episode of the season was a giant foreshadow to the truth.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
You're ignoring every point I've made.
The quote: "A bird whose wings have been plucked will shed all its feathers and turn into the beast it was before it evolved into a bird."
The picture:
The fact that we see big Venus with wings in one flashback but they disappear in the next scene.
Angel has had the scars since childhood, not from jacking into Big Venus. They're symbolism, the show is filled with it; Big Venus does not have a pilot like the other megadueces. Venus is Angel and Angel is Venus; I believe they are two forms of the same being. There are way too many parallels between the two to ignore or dismiss as coincidence.
What we don't know is if Angel is the manifestation of Big Venus' memories; that part is left open to interpretation. I tend to lean towards no.
Future Foundation
Member
I think it did, just sped up. I don't remember if it was SoC or 2nd Gig, but I definitely remember end credits for one of those two (and have Living Inside the Shell stuck in my head to pay for it).
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
2deep4me
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Roger is not the main actor, he plays a supporting role as the negotiator. The main actors on this stage are the megadueces and Angel is the director; she just doesn't realize it until the final episode.
From episode 26:
Angel: "I just want to go back."
Gordon: "With the memories of what time? At what point in time? You have the power to either contain or release them, even those memories of events prior to 40 years ago."
Angel: "So then, now I'm the one making the choice?"
Gordon: "It's up to you, Negotiator!"
Angel is in control of the events of this world. At this point she has become aware of her role as the director. It is revealed to the viewer that Roger must now negotiate with Angel to decide what the future will hold for the city of amnesia.
I don't buy the whole "Truman Show" theory. Schwartzwald refers to the domes as "abandoned equipment" in episode 25:
"Paradigm City--a grand, ostentatious stage--and above it, secretly looking down at the folly of human blunders, were not the ever-expecting and comforting presences of gods, but only this abandoned equipment"
http://www.paradigm-city.com/scripts/article.php?a=ep25
There is no outside audience and the director (Angel) doesn't take her place until the climax of the final act. Most of the theatrical references are metaphors, I don't think they were meant to be taken literally. Paradigm City isn't a show just like Gordon's tomatoes aren't actually tomatoes.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Nah, you're looking too deeply in.
The stage rigging could be a metaphor, sure, or it could be a failed experiment of this world.
Even as a metaphor, Schwartzwald is basically the only one in the entire world who had the resources and ability to move outside of Paradigm and he knows what is (isn't) out there.
It's a more interesting show if the stage is real and it's not just a barren wasteland.
Both seasons used to have their EDs, usually sped up, but [as] eventually cut those off.
2nd GIG does still sometimes have a few random episodes with end credits for some reason, though.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
I edited too late
The beauty of Big O is that the story is open to different interpretations. I can totally see where you're coming from but I just have serious doubts about this being a Truman Show rip-off.
Doctor Decimate
Member
i think the stage is real insofar as it's meant to communicate that the whole thing is artificial. beyond that? eh.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
I'm still having a hard time trying to decide if the world of Big O is nothing more than a computer simulation. Did they really pull a matrix here? Really wish there was a season 3 to flesh things out.
Doctor Decimate
Member
anyways, what i got out of it is that Angel is hitting the reset button God knows how many times giving people a chance not to fuck up and destroy everything, but people keep doing that so she ends up having to hit the reset button. the whole "memories" thing morphs into your usual "live in the present, don't dwell on the past", and then Roger sort of convinces her to leave stuff be in the future since what happens happens. boom.
BassForever
Member
When I get home MCXC I'll read all this big o analysis and see how much more it breaks my mind. Glad to have you break it down the last few episodes allowed me to knock off "experience an acid trip" from my bucket list.
Schadenfreude
Member
I just noticed that Aniplex is splitting up SAO into 4 bluray volumes. Now I know why the anime industry is dying. How do you split up a 25 episode series into 4 volumes and charge that kind of money for them? Christ, man. 25 doesn't even split up evenly into 4. I know anime stuff is expensive, but that just seems like overkill. Even Final Act is only split up into 2 volumes.
Doctor Decimate
Member
eh. that's kinda just Aniplex being Aniplex. nobody else is that insane.
Yeah, I don't understand why they don't box entire seasons or series together when they're 24-26 episodes long, which is about the same amount of an US TV season, maybe 1/2 that if the show is 40 minutes compared to 20. I mentioned it a while back, but back in high school or junior high, I saw FLCL at Sam Goody which only had TWO episodes for $30. I remember when stuff like Samurai Champloo was $100+ for the entire series. Thankfully, it's MUCH better now, but some companies like Aniplex still charge outrageous prices *coughGurrenLaganncough*
Heck, at the very least, split the series in 1/2 if you're gonna add a bunch of bonus stuff, on-DVD or physical so you get 12 or 13 episodes.
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