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[Alastor3]

Wasteland 2 gets way too much shit around here.

Yep, I think the game was pretty great. Yes, a bit rough around the edge, it wasn't perfect but I think people see the negative parts bigger than they were. There was more + part than negative.

And props to InXile when they took more than one year of their time to rework a lot of things the fan asked to changed (some people wanted to rework the combat mecanish which would probably had been too much work) for the director's cut version and make it free for those who purchase the game already instead of make it a dlc or something. I mean it could have happened, it already had happen with other games.

Sorry about my english.

 

[His Majesty]

What was cut from numenaria?

the first 'a' and an 'i'

they also decided to add an 'e'

 

[bati]

Is the Effort system part of Numenera ruleset or is it something that InXile came up with? Because it just might be one of my favorite new systems I've seen in RPGs recently. I only wish the requirements would be a bit more strict (like in Age of Decadence), the game is rather quick-load prone at the moment, much like Wasteland 2 was with its skill checks.

 

[Budi]

What's all this then?

Wasteland 2 was pretty damn great if you ask me.

Hell yeah it was, in the TOP 10 of 2014.

 

[Herr Starr]

Is the Effort system part of Numenera ruleset or is it something that InXile came up with? Because it just might be one of my favorite new systems I've seen in RPGs recently. I only wish the requirements would be a bit more strict (like in Age of Decadence), the game is rather quick-load prone at the moment, much like Wasteland 2 was with its skill checks.

It's part of the Numenera rules. In fact, those rules also allow you, and even encourage, to spend your XP as a resource while playing. Torment doesn't keep that aspect of the rules for understandable reasons.

You probably shouldn't reload if you fail skill checks. This is a game that was designed to make failure interesting.

 

[Kiyoshi]

Is the Effort system part of Numenera ruleset or is it something that InXile came up with? Because it just might be one of my favorite new systems I've seen in RPGs recently. I only wish the requirements would be a bit more strict (like in Age of Decadence), the game is rather quick-load prone at the moment, much like Wasteland 2 was with its skill checks.

I've been strict with myself when it comes to re-loading after failed efforts. The devs have stated that interesting things can happen after failures; so I'm gonna take their word for that. I've also experienced a quest where I failed a check; but was able to resolve it another way which I wouldn't have seen had I reloaded and completed it the first way.

 

[kionedrik]

Same. I think I somehow spent over an hour just talking to The Genocide guy and El-Jinto/Canadu pair and the people by the stage

I loved the whole The Genocide exposition. Such a great way of presenting the player with a different perspective of the lore and the story of the land and the personality of what seems so far to be the big antagonist.
In the same way I loved how the Council Clerk is the embodiment of a True Neutral character and will just spill the beans and provide with even more interesting stories.

 

[LiQuid!]

Don't rest often, then?


Abuse of resting is a flaw of this D&D-like systems.
Of course I don't know if the game is balanced for that.

You can't just not rest. You use the same resource pools to resolve dialog stuff around the world as you do to resolve combat. So if you're walking around with depleted pools from solving problems out in the environment and then get into combat you will not be able to expend effort on anything. If you don't rest, eventually you will just start failing every dice roll.

At the beginning of the game one of the tutorial pop ups tells you not to worry so much about succeeding at every roll because the game is designed so that interesting things can happen even if you fail, but I haven't found that to be the case. Most of the things I've expended effort on and failed, I've just gotten nothing and had to retry, expending more effort.

 

[toddhunter]

What's all this then?

Wasteland 2 was pretty damn great if you ask me.

My only problem with it was that the graphics, writing, gameplay, story and characters were really poorly done... and that was in the "fixed version".

The main menu was very solid though so overall it could be considered a great game depending on what you value.

Sounds like this is pretty good for even more reasons... but I'll wait for a couple of patches.

 

[Mivey]

Hate the idea that resting to restore effort advances the game and potentially screws up quests. I get why someone would think that's a neat and/or clever design decision but the completionist in me loathes this kind of design.

Game design shouldn't try to leverage people's additions, but rather actually make good games.

 

[Menome]

ROYGBIV

Yeah, I solved it. To get an hint you must

Spoiler

win an intellect check and recall a riddle from your memories.

There are actually two solutions to this puzzle. One awards a cipher and the other an accessory. IIRC the best solution is to pay attention to hue.
It's been a long time since I played through Act 1, so I had to look it up.

Spoiler

Remove left, front, right, right, bottom, back, back, bottom, front, left.

Hope it works!

Darn it, I'd been seriously overthinking the solution. I'd gotten the clue, but thought there was a colour-sequence hidden away somewhere else in the area that I just wasn't finding! Managed to solve it with Ziggs' clue, thanks everyone.

 

[ParityBit]

ROYGBIV

EVERYTIME I see/hear this I think the of the old pen and paper RPG Paranoia. Man, how I loved that game. Perfect for breaks from DnD and Rifts/etc.

 

[Truant]

I've talked to everyone in the Fifth Eye in, and I can't figure out who's the last Adversary.

 

[goblin]

I've talked to everyone in the Fifth Eye in, and I can't figure out who's the last Adversary.

Spoiler

Talk to the bartender, order some black ichor, and then try to do another circuit around the area.

 

[Remmy2112]

You can't just not rest. You use the same resource pools to resolve dialog stuff around the world as you do to resolve combat. So if you're walking around with depleted pools from solving problems out in the environment and then get into combat you will not be able to expend effort on anything. If you don't rest, eventually you will just start failing every dice roll.

At the beginning of the game one of the tutorial pop ups tells you not to worry so much about succeeding at every roll because the game is designed so that interesting things can happen even if you fail, but I haven't found that to be the case. Most of the things I've expended effort on and failed, I've just gotten nothing and had to retry, expending more effort.

There are consumable, non-cypher items that will restore points to pools outside of resting. Perhaps you should stockpile those to use. The cypher system and consumables seem to be designed to encourage frequent use and not stingy hoarding.

 

[Gbraga]

So, I don't know anything about the series, and I'm not very familiar with CRPGs in general, but the Story and Launch trailer got me really interested in this one.

I had around 10 minutes this morning before work, so I decided to boot it just to see how it looks like. There was this little text adventure in the beginning, and I decided to just choose anything just to get to the game already.

I died before I could even see it running.

That got me even more interested.

 

[Abstrusity]

I've heard from a friend of mine that I trust more than myself sometimes that Tides of Numanera is fantastic, even compared to Torment, so I'll be grabbing this off gog soon.

Even though I really shouldn't, since I don't have the time between work and school '-'

 

[Fledz]

I only tried the first 90min last night but damn, I am liking it so far. Lots of reading (as expected) but the story seems interesting right from the start.

Went with Strong-Willed Nano which I'm hoping will work out ok but who knows, it's a completely new ruleset to me. Hopefully I can squeeze in an hour this afternoon if I get all my work done in time!

 

[HK-47]

EVERYTIME I see/hear this I think the of the old pen and paper RPG Paranoia. Man, how I loved that game. Perfect for breaks from DnD and Rifts/etc.

Paranoia is one of my dream CRPGs, after Eclipse Phase and Hunter the Vigil. Would be pretty interesting with a roguelike design.

 

[Moff]

So after five hours I am now in the sixth screen of the game and apparently I can solve quests by simple convincing the quest givers or persons right next to them.

Is that suspicion true and if yes, don't I miss out of ...well... the actual content?

Talking about the

Spoiler

underbelly robot children and ant eggs

quests

 

[Screaming Meat]

Paranoia is one of my dream CRPGs

Oh dear god, yes.

 

[Sarek]

First game I've played where you can volunteer

Spoiler

to be eaten alive.

 

[Gormenghast]

It seems to me that official media cannot handle anymore these types of "specialized" games. It used to happen with MMOs, now it happens with these types of RPGs or even cases like Dark Souls 2: official media will try to deal with the game with the gloves on, because they know how much the franchise is loved.

Yet it takes a few months to truly understand whether or not a game was actually good. Dark Souls 2 received excellent reviews, but it took the community quite a long time to realize it wasn't good at all (beside its good parts).

For Torment it will take a similar amount of time to sober up and have a more balanced opinion. The new Torment seems to exist entirely in the shadow of the first. It's a little homage to a game everyone loved but that seems unable to be considered on the same level, or surpass it, considering it's happening so many years later. It gets all the attention now not because of its merits, but merely because it's "different".

It's like Pillars of Eternity supposed to be the new Baldur's Gate 2. But instead it's an okay game inspired to the classics but that doesn't even comes close to those. Much less surpass them.

The original Torment was written mostly by 1 guy, released in a short time. And in 2017 a full team can only offer a pale, shorter in content, imitation?

It's also kind of pathetic than in 2017 they cannot make an engine runs smoothly when it has to deal with just text and also those old engines that run the old games STILL did a much better job on the hardware we had back then. The sheer technical incompetence shown here is baffling.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Yet it takes a few months to truly understand whether or not a game was actually good.

He's right. Shut gaming media down. It's all over.

Dark Souls 2 received excellent reviews, but it took the community quite a long time to realize it wasn't good at all (beside its good parts).

 

[HK-47]

It seems to me that official media cannot handle anymore these types of "specialized" games. It used to happen with MMOs, now it happens with these types of RPGs or even cases like Dark Souls 2: official media will try to deal with the game with the gloves on, because they know how much the franchise is loved.

Yet it takes a few months to truly understand whether or not a game was actually good. Dark Souls 2 received excellent reviews, but it took the community quite a long time to realize it wasn't good at all (beside its good parts).

For Torment it will take a similar amount of time to sober up and have a more balanced opinion. The new Torment seems to exist entirely in the shadow of the first. It's a little homage to a game everyone loved but that seems unable to be considered on the same level, or surpass it, considering it's happening so many years later. It gets all the attention now not because of its merits, but merely because it's "different".

It's like Pillars of Eternity supposed to be the new Baldur's Gate 2. But instead it's an okay game inspired to the classics but that doesn't even comes close to those. Much less surpass them.

The original Torment was written mostly by 1 guy, released in a short time. And in 2017 a full team can only offer a pale, shorter in content, imitation?

It's also kind of pathetic than in 2017 they cannot make an engine runs smoothly when it has to deal with just text and also those old engines that run the old games STILL did a much better job on the hardware we had back then. The sheer technical incompetence shown here is baffling.

Ah but you see the truth. All those reviewers that enjoyed Dark Souls 2 and this game are the real fools.

This game has gotten reviews all over the scale. I dont think what you say reflects reality at all. You just want people to agree with you.

 

[Herr Starr]

It seems to me that official media cannot handle anymore these types of "specialized" games. It used to happen with MMOs, now it happens with these types of RPGs or even cases like Dark Souls 2: official media will try to deal with the game with the gloves on, because they know how much the franchise is loved.

Yet it takes a few months to truly understand whether or not a game was actually good. Dark Souls 2 received excellent reviews, but it took the community quite a long time to realize it wasn't good at all (beside its good parts).

For Torment it will take a similar amount of time to sober up and have a more balanced opinion. The new Torment seems to exist entirely in the shadow of the first. It's a little homage to a game everyone loved but that seems unable to be considered on the same level, or surpass it, considering it's happening so many years later. It gets all the attention now not because of its merits, but merely because it's "different".

Since you've traveled back in time to tell us how opinion on this game will develop in the future, did you remember to bring along lottery numbers? I could really use the money.

 

[Gormenghast]

Since you've traveled back in time to tell us how opinion on this game will develop in the future

Has it ever happened that it takes weeks for a game to meet praise? The opposite is what happens: a game comes out to very positive reviews and glowing impressions but over time the community sobers up and opinions get more balanced.

 

[Herr Starr]

Has it ever happened that it takes weeks for a game to meet praise? The opposite is what happens: a game comes out to very positive reviews and glowing impressions but over time the community sobers up and opinions get more balanced.

Yeah, we get it. Everyone else is drunk on hype and nostalgia, while you are the only person to have seen The Truth.

Or maybe there's a simpler explanation. You know, something like Torment actually being a good game and opinion on it holding months from now just like pretty much every other game out there that isn't made by Electronic Arts.

 

[Anno]

I think the general opinion of something like PoE has only increased as time has passed, and it started out with pretty glowing reviews. Which it should since it does match and surpass some of the classics. I don't know that InExile will have the same devotion to improving their game, though.

 

[HK-47]

I think the general opinion of something like PoE has only increased as time has passed, and it started out with pretty glowing reviews. Which it should since it does match and surpass some of the classics. I don't know that InExile will have the same devotion to improving their game, though.

It should go up because WM is a big improvement on the base game.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I found Wasteland 2 impenetrable and am surprised by how much I've enjoyed Tides so far. Having a big city to explore filled to the brim with interesting dialogue focused quests is pretty much what I want from a CRPG, especially after I just finished Tyranny where every new map seemed to be nothing more than chase a bad guy whilst fighting off waves of the same mobs in tedious combat.

 

[The Wart]

It seems to me that official media cannot handle anymore these types of "specialized" games. It used to happen with MMOs, now it happens with these types of RPGs or even cases like Dark Souls 2: official media will try to deal with the game with the gloves on, because they know how much the franchise is loved.

Yet it takes a few months to truly understand whether or not a game was actually good. Dark Souls 2 received excellent reviews, but it took the community quite a long time to realize it wasn't good at all (beside its good parts).

For Torment it will take a similar amount of time to sober up and have a more balanced opinion. The new Torment seems to exist entirely in the shadow of the first. It's a little homage to a game everyone loved but that seems unable to be considered on the same level, or surpass it, considering it's happening so many years later. It gets all the attention now not because of its merits, but merely because it's "different".

It's like Pillars of Eternity supposed to be the new Baldur's Gate 2. But instead it's an okay game inspired to the classics but that doesn't even comes close to those. Much less surpass them.

The original Torment was written mostly by 1 guy, released in a short time. And in 2017 a full team can only offer a pale, shorter in content, imitation?

It's also kind of pathetic than in 2017 they cannot make an engine runs smoothly when it has to deal with just text and also those old engines that run the old games STILL did a much better job on the hardware we had back then. The sheer technical incompetence shown here is baffling.

Maybe, just maybe -- I know this will sound crazy but hear me out -- other people have different opinions than you do. Even crazier, said opinions may even be informed and genuine.

You may also want to consider the possibility that the loudest, crankiest, most-prone-to-histrionics elements of a community may not in fact be objectively correct.

Finally, you do realize that Infinity Engine games were locked at 30 fps right? So no, they didn't actually run better than these games.

 

[Anno]

It should go up because WM is a big improvement on the base game.

It is, but I wouldn't want to overlook the amount of patching that game received as well. Even without WM 3.xx is a significantly better game than 1.0. Obsidian put in a lot of work to refining the game with lots of feedback and I think it will pay off with POE2.


To get back on topic a bit I'm glad to see that people here are generally enjoying the game. It's next on my list once I finish Hollow Knight and polish off my current run in POE.

 

[SlasherJPC]

The sheer technical incompetence shown here is baffling.

Yes. Exactly.This post.

 

[kionedrik]

Has it ever happened that it takes weeks for a game to meet praise?

That's pretty much what happened with Planescape: Torment. It took years actually.

 

[bati]

Can someone tell me if I got the sphere puzzle right? I got the

Spoiler

artifact

as the reward. My solution using all 10 colors was:

Spoiler

1 - Left (Lurid Red)
2 - Front (Bright Orange)
3 - Right (Blazing Orange)
4 - Right (Dull Orange)
5 - Bottom (Indigo)
6 - Back (Cool Green)
7 - Back (Brilliant Blue)
8 - Bottom (Shining Yellow)
9 - Front (Deep Violet)
10 - Left (Deep Violet again)

I couldn't figure out a way to get the intensity of orange colors in order and the last two are the same for whatever reason.

 

[Feeroper]

I see a lot of impressions of the PS4 version's performance issues - but what about Xbox One? I picked this up for PC but I'm curious about the Xbox performance and if the same issues exist there?

 

[LordBaztion]

how likely is the game to be discounted next month on the X1?

 

[decoyplatypus]

It seems to me that official media cannot handle anymore these types of "specialized" games. It used to happen with MMOs, now it happens with these types of RPGs or even cases like Dark Souls 2: official media will try to deal with the game with the gloves on, because they know how much the franchise is loved.

Yet it takes a few months to truly understand whether or not a game was actually good. Dark Souls 2 received excellent reviews, but it took the community quite a long time to realize it wasn't good at all (beside its good parts).

1. Yes, it sometimes takes months to properly evaluate a game.

2. No, it did not take months for the community to turn on Dark Souls 2. The hostility was almost immediate. And its actual status within the franchise is an open debate on GAF. Plenty of experienced players actually prefer it to the other Souls games. Relatively few people think it is an outright bad game.

For Torment it will take a similar amount of time to sober up and have a more balanced opinion. The new Torment seems to exist entirely in the shadow of the first. It's a little homage to a game everyone loved but that seems unable to be considered on the same level, or surpass it, considering it's happening so many years later. It gets all the attention now not because of its merits, but merely because it's "different".

If it takes months to understand whether some games are actually good, then of course pre- and immediately post-release coverage won't arise solely from a game's ultimate merits. But why should it? Critics and consumers are paying attention to Torment because of its promise. The fact that promise is "in the mold of [prior game we loved]" is something Torment shares with, well, 99% of other games that the gaming media writes about.

It's like Pillars of Eternity supposed to be the new Baldur's Gate 2. But instead it's an okay game inspired to the classics but that doesn't even comes close to those. Much less surpass them.

The original Torment was written mostly by 1 guy, released in a short time. And in 2017 a full team can only offer a pale, shorter in content, imitation?

It's also kind of pathetic than in 2017 they cannot make an engine runs smoothly when it has to deal with just text and also those old engines that run the old games STILL did a much better job on the hardware we had back then. The sheer technical incompetence shown here is baffling.

Pillars of Eternity is a totally sweet game. It may not measure up to BG2 in some respects (few games do), but it fully deserved the attention it received. I also think the community impressions of Pillars ("I feel like I'm a kid playing an IE game again! They've done it!" --> "You know, there are some real weaknesses here." --> "Patch 3.0 and WM have dramatically improved the game") were basically right at each stage.

As for Numenera, how the hell would we know if it's only a pale imitation? The game's been out for a little over 24 hours. We all need some time to explore it.

Can someone tell me if I got the sphere puzzle right? I got the

Spoiler

artifact

as the reward. My solution using all 10 colors was:

Spoiler

1 - Left (Lurid Red)
2 - Front (Bright Orange)
3 - Right (Blazing Orange)
4 - Right (Dull Orange)
5 - Bottom (Indigo)
6 - Back (Cool Green)
7 - Back (Brilliant Blue)
8 - Bottom (Shining Yellow)
9 - Front (Deep Violet)
10 - Left (Deep Violet again)

I couldn't figure out a way to get the intensity of orange colors in order and the last two are the same for whatever reason.

I got a different (I guess worse?) solution and a different artifact. Mine did not involve different intensity levels of the same color.

 

[LiQuid!]

Can someone tell me if I got the sphere puzzle right? I got the

Spoiler

artifact

as the reward. My solution using all 10 colors was:

Spoiler

1 - Left (Lurid Red)
2 - Front (Bright Orange)
3 - Right (Blazing Orange)
4 - Right (Dull Orange)
5 - Bottom (Indigo)
6 - Back (Cool Green)
7 - Back (Brilliant Blue)
8 - Bottom (Shining Yellow)
9 - Front (Deep Violet)
10 - Left (Deep Violet again)

I couldn't figure out a way to get the intensity of orange colors in order and the last two are the same for whatever reason.

I just did ROYGBIV and got a Cypher.

 

[FlyinJ]

In the beginning, if I made a mage/rogue, should I choose to have the woman or the man as a follower? I think the woman is a mage, so that would be a bad pair up for my mage/thief?

 

[jtb]

Come on. Of course reviewers review the hype. For a game with choice and consequence, endless dialogue trees, etc. you can't properly evaluate that on release.

You can respect the ambition, and I do, but there's still a big difference between ambition and execution. And both should be taken into account.

 

[corin7]

I got less than a hour last night, so I only got through the very beginning portions of the game but I enjoyed the hell out that despite dealing with the txt scrolling bug for a portion of it. Early on at least seems to live up to what I was hoping for it. Definitely looking forward to logging some more time with it this evening.

 

[HK-47]

Come on. Of course reviewers review the hype. For a game with choice and consequence, endless dialogue trees, etc. you can't properly evaluate that on release.

You can respect the ambition, and I do, but there's still a big difference between ambition and execution. And both should be taken into account.

Seems like they executed pretty well from impressions here. At least on the PC version. The game is getting 6-8, not tens. That doesnt speak to an out of control hype train.

 

[phazedplasma]

played a few hours yesterday. One of the few games I've played that makes you believe you are in the far far future.

Loving it so far

 

[bati]

Jesus. Every conversation with even minor npcs is pure joy to go through. I'm now talking to the

Spoiler

Stichus

and it's just amazing.

 

[Menome]

Jesus. Every conversation with even minor npcs is pure joy to go through. I'm now talking to the

Spoiler

Stichus

and it's just amazing.

I keep finding people and wishing I could take them with me as party members to try uncover more about them.

 

[Arkkoran]

Does anyone know which companions Rothfuss and Avellone wrote?

I'm guessing

Spoiler

Erritis

is Avellone's.

 

[Gothos]

I keep finding people and wishing I could take them with me as party members to try uncover more about them.

There is one fascinating character in Bloom for whom I had the same exact wish.

 

[jtb]

Seems like they executed pretty well from impressions here. At least on the PC version. The game is getting 6-8, not tens. That doesnt speak to an out of control hype train.

I hear you. I mean, regardless, I backed the game and whether other people like/dislike the game will have no bearing on my experience of the game. I'm just speaking to a more general frustration with the industry and the way it treats CRPGs in particular. That's not to say that GAF is immune from the hype train. Often, they're every bit as bad heh

Anyways, my axe to grind is with InXile specifically because I hate the lack of crowdfunding regulation and consumer protection and, let's face it, the CRPG fanbase is particularly afflicted by stockholm syndrome. Even a 5/10 CRPG is a 10/10 when you consider that we have basically no alternatives to turn to lol. So when it comes to bait/switch poorly managed projects, which Tides objectively was, it really frustrates me.