Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
The Toronto page is kept up to date, whereas the other ones are not.
lol @ paying for "emporis research". Their entire database was user created, was it not?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Toronto-Age |OT2|
- Thread starter EvilMario
- Start date
The Toronto page is kept up to date, whereas the other ones are not.
lol @ paying for "emporis research". Their entire database was user created, was it not?
criesofthepast
Member
Thanks. Yes keep posting!
I fully believe that there are more skyscrapers being constructed, but even so, I have to believe that some aspect of the methodology must be different to account for the massive gap in numbers. Toronto is a huge amalgamated city, and perhaps they're throwing in the 905 region as well? I'd wonder if they're comparing to the ~600k Vancouver proper, but the website does mention the metro area.. I dunno.
This would make the most sense.
It's just not the population of Vancouver either though. There's limited space on which to build in the city, whereas Toronto has a lot of prime lots to build on even downtown (and obviously the further out you go, the more available land there is). Condo boom in Toronto has been no secret though. There's been a housing slow down (or as far down as a crash) predicted for years, but hasn't hit yet. Still seems like there's bidding wars on everything, and developers have no problems selling three quarters of their units before they even break ground on a condo.
Zombie James
Banned
Same with me. Just hope I have stable employment when that happens...
High five!
added_time
Member
The real numbers wouldn't be all that different. Toronto has WAY more under construction than Vancouver. It's not even comparable.
Something is definitely wrong with the numbers on the page, because off the top of my head, I can come up with 7 under construction in my neighbourhood. So considering that I'm likely forgetting some, there's still all the other neighbourhoods in Vancouver and further than that all the other cities in metro Vancouver.
added_time
Member
I know the numbers are wrong but I'm just saying that the gap would still be shockingly wide even if it completely accurate.
I wonder when the big crash would come though, the next decade? I'm looking at houses at the same time so it's really hard..
added_time
Member
Houses are much less likely to crash in price since there is no room in the city to build any more. Condos can keep being built though so the stock gets higher which can lower the demand and price.
Yeah, that's why it's hard. I look at houses and prices just go up, even outside of central/ideal neighborhoods. Meanwhile condos will eventually go down. I start to wonder if it's a bad idea to wait and get a cheap temp condo, then eventual house... but then I may be screwed as by that time, houses will have gone way too high.
Zombie James
Banned
BigJonsson
Member
Dumbass should read a book on Democracy
LRT will at least get done in our lifetimes, and service more areas than Ford's subway plan, at lower cost.
Subways are great if you planned to build them before developing the city, not when you have to block off and dig up for months or years some super busy areas that have already been built.
Subways are great if you planned to build them before developing the city, not when you have to block off and dig up for months or years some super busy areas that have already been built.
added_time
Member
Good morning friends! That LRT news sounds too good to be true! We will see what happens I guess!
Today's Toronto photo of the day is something a bit different. Here is a photo from 1904 after a fire destroyed a lot of the downtown of the city:
as you can see, we were very lucky that City Hall survived that fire!
For reference, here is what that area looked like a few days before the fire:
Today's Toronto photo of the day is something a bit different. Here is a photo from 1904 after a fire destroyed a lot of the downtown of the city:
as you can see, we were very lucky that City Hall survived that fire!
For reference, here is what that area looked like a few days before the fire:
Way too early to call. Stintz has much more experience.. and dirty laundry.. but it's nice to see her doing the right thing now. But it's interesting that she waited this long.
I can't imagine she survives much longer as TTC chair. Maybe Ford is just worried about how it'll look if he axes her now and will let it go on though. I wonder if it'll weaken his foundation if some of the borderline Councillors feel empowered to go against him now.
Should be interesting to see. I hope Transit City v2.0 is put back in motion. If they wait any longer, they'll have to start submitting new studies, and it'll be delayed years. I'll be curious to how the Province handles the funding as well with the flip flop.
Yay!! So good if this happens!
All this bureaucracy is making me sick. The 2009 plan was good for areas of the city that relies on public transit. I'm glad it's coming back hopefully in some form. I really wish Rob Ford would take the TTC is the outer extremities and see how long it takes to travel anywhere.
lunarworks
Member
It's clché as fuck to say, but... "Shit just got real."
I don't expect this to go down without a temper tantrum from Ford. Stintz being knocked off the board will only be the first step. But it looks like council is finally going to stand up to him. The only thing I'm worried about is the influence council can have over the actual TTC board, which Ford has stacked with his toadies.
He'll just tell people to go buy a car.
This is where Rob Ford is an idiot. Yes people who live in places like Etobicoke want downtown to be more car friendly. Only because the transportation to take them downtown is horrid. The fastest and easiest way is by car.
That said, they dont WANT to be driving their cars. They don't want to be paying huge fee's for parking and sit in traffic for hours.
the LRT system solves both of these problems. However, the LRT system as it was, still leaves hundreds of thousands in the dark so to speak. It needs to be back, but it also needs to include major lines along places like Islington.
Then, nobody will want to fucking use their car.
That said, they dont WANT to be driving their cars. They don't want to be paying huge fee's for parking and sit in traffic for hours.
the LRT system solves both of these problems. However, the LRT system as it was, still leaves hundreds of thousands in the dark so to speak. It needs to be back, but it also needs to include major lines along places like Islington.
Then, nobody will want to fucking use their car.
TRANSIT IS FOR THE POOR. IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE IN THIS CITY, THEN GET OUT.
Doug Holyday view not Ford, but I'm sure there are similar views..
I think every line, save the Waterfront LRT perhaps (the one extending out to the Humber Loop.. and I ride the 501 daily), is very important. Having an LRT up Jane from the Station would be critical for the development this side of the city, where it would actually reach one of the very few affordable housing sections left in Toronto (good luck finding $300,000 bunaglows along the Danforth) and a slew of apartment buildings everywhere.
The problem with building an LRT north on Islington is that the population north of Dundas is almost exclusively single family residents. Compared to a lot of other sections of the city, you're hitting a tiny percentage of people that would actually use the transit. I wouldn't take away any of the planned Transit City lines to build on Islington. If you build north, you reach almost no one, and if you build south, you're not reaching the density you're looking for when you build an LRT until you reach the Queensway. Kipling is the same way, you're just not reaching the population requirements, and north of Bloor, it's middle-high end single family houses until you reach Eglinton. And unlike say.. building the extension from Gunners Loop on St Clair to Jane, where population is thin.. there's no hope of density increasing on Islington because of the established homes there. Along St Clair, there is a lot of land and plots that are opening for development.
The east end actually does a bit better than most of Etobicoke at reaching the density you're looking for when building these LRTs, but it'll still be a tough sell to build it on something like Victoria Park even. In some cases, buses really are superior when you're borderline meeting requirements for LRT.
Seems like Busways would be a good solution for a lot of north/south transit it the city. Most of Etobicoke is an absolute dead zone in terms of transit.
One of the best things about the Transit City plan is that it goes up to east and west borders of the city. It's not hard at all for Metrolinx to build on that and extend it deep into the suburbs (though I don't think Mississauga really qualifies as a suburb anymore) and then we'll really see some affect on congestion. Plus really easy to build another link to the airport as well. It's really by far the best use of 8 billion dollars.
Yes. The airport link is vital, even though opponents of the LRT extending that far is just what I brought up; population. It would serve a very important purpose though, having rail transit to and from the airport. It's good for business, it's good for tourism, and it's good for anyone in the city that uses the airport.. of which there are many.
I hope that if most of the east/west lines are built for Transit City, that they could eventually link with the LRT on Hurontario. Of course the Mississauga LRT might be an even larger pipe dream than Transit City at this point. It seems like they've been planning it for eons.
Glad this is happening but I can only imagine the shit Ford will be saying if this goes through. I can already see him taking a page out of Harper's book and whine about how the council is being undemocratic and that the people voted him in, subways, etc. Then after some time period he'll cry about how expensive the project and that the left commies of city hall are adding back the gravy he cleaned up (minus the fact he didn't do shit, and his subways are more expensive). And I'm going to guess that this comes up around election time lol.
Here is the issue
The area around Islington is densely populated with families. Those are homes, buildings and a majority of them are occupied by families with children. Many of whom work and commute downtown.
That is a tiny snapshot between two major intersections. It goes like that for miles. Is it as desnly populated as some areas getting the LRT? No. However it still houses around 200,000 people.
All that needs to be done is have one LRT line down Islington to Eglington, or, more preferably, going to the subway station.
That one line would serve over a hundred thousand people, easily. Islington is one of the main bloodlines of Etobicoke, especially since it connects to the 401 at Rexdale BlVD.
I am not saying get rid of any specific LRT line. I am saying add one for Islington. The money that will be made will recoup the cost of putting it in.
Another incentive is many of the people building the LRT will be from this area. It's very working class, and a substantial number of the residents are in or connected to the construction business. If you every want to see one section of the LRT system built quickly, on budget and efficiently, it will be the Islington line.
The area around Islington is densely populated with families. Those are homes, buildings and a majority of them are occupied by families with children. Many of whom work and commute downtown.
That is a tiny snapshot between two major intersections. It goes like that for miles. Is it as desnly populated as some areas getting the LRT? No. However it still houses around 200,000 people.
All that needs to be done is have one LRT line down Islington to Eglington, or, more preferably, going to the subway station.
That one line would serve over a hundred thousand people, easily. Islington is one of the main bloodlines of Etobicoke, especially since it connects to the 401 at Rexdale BlVD.
I am not saying get rid of any specific LRT line. I am saying add one for Islington. The money that will be made will recoup the cost of putting it in.
Another incentive is many of the people building the LRT will be from this area. It's very working class, and a substantial number of the residents are in or connected to the construction business. If you every want to see one section of the LRT system built quickly, on budget and efficiently, it will be the Islington line.
I don't care if he whines, as long as he's powerless to delay transit progress in the city any longer.
Ironically, most of the lines will probably be mid-way through completion by the time the election rolls around, and people will be sick of construction, so Ford can actually use that as a finger waving point saying he told them so and the 'war on cars' must end.
Maybe for expansion later, but even north of Eglinton it's mostly single family housing still. As long as the Eglinton extension to the airport is put through, the area will be served by an LRT regardless. And you're just as likely to have to take a push to reach an Islington LRT if you live within the area, as you would be to reach the Eglinton LRT.
Buses are the way to go for now, preferably with lane restrictions on traffic for four lane roads like Islington during rush hour. Let cars with more than a single driver and buses have a priority lane.
I hope every reach of the city has rail transit eventually, but it is a great expense and government won't approve it without meeting specific requirements.
Here is the issue
The area around Islington is densely populated with families. Those are homes, buildings and a majority of them are occupied by families with children. Many of whom work and commute downtown.
That is a tiny snapshot between two major intersections. It goes like that for miles. Is it as desnly populated as some areas getting the LRT? No. However it still houses around 200,000 people.
All that needs to be done is have one LRT line down Islington to Eglington, or, more preferably, going to the subway station.
That one line would serve over a hundred thousand people, easily. Islington is one of the main bloodlines of Etobicoke, especially since it connects to the 401 at Rexdale BlVD.
I am not saying get rid of any specific LRT line. I am saying add one for Islington. The money that will be made will recoup the cost of putting it in.
Another incentive is many of the people building the LRT will be from this area. It's very working class, and a substantial number of the residents are in or connected to the construction business. If you every want to see one section of the LRT system built quickly, on budget and efficiently, it will be the Islington line.
A problem is that Etobicoke keeps electing Ford in who doesn't believe in any reasonable transit. Wouldn't a Busway down Islington that connects the Transit City East/West LRTs on Finch, Sheppard, and Egltion to the Subway on Dundas be a good option considering the lack of density? According to Stintz's compromise language Busways wouldn't be very hard to convert to LRT as I'm sure a lot of those old single family homes will start being bought up by developers to convert to denser townhomes and condominiums.
lunarworks
Member
Nope. They'll still want to use their cars. It's a certain mindset. They just want the city to bend over backwards to please them with unrealistic plans like widening roads and building new ones. Just bring up the words "Spadina Expressway" with just about any suburbanite over 40 and they'll start foaming at the mouth about "the stupidest mistake the city ever made".
Fact: Widening and building new roads doesn't relieve traffic. It just encourages more cars to get on the road. Just look at Los Angeles. They built tons of wide roads and highways, and it's a traffic nightmare.
I have lived in Etobicoke for 20 years, and went to school in North York and downtown. Nobody wants to use cars, we have to use cars.
The only reason they elect Ford is because he was the only one who had a message for places like Etobicoke. Etobicoke has generally voted, federally, very liberal since the 1970's. You get someone else running for Mayor who has a message for Etobicoke, they will be voted in.
What's the message though? The message is "War on Cars" and "Council is wasteful and spends too much" and "Need to build subways, above ground transit is BAD". None of these is support of LRT and two of them are directly opposed. Stintz tried to find a compromise that Ford would go for with Busways but even that is not good enough for Ford.
You'd be fine with a busway down Islington as opposed to a LRT right?
Unless you're from the Ford family.
Even if people don't stand up for public transit when it's talked about, I think most people would use it if it were available. I'm not against building LRT in Etobicoke, but building smaller routes on the north / south corridors is not high priority.
Thankfully, Etobicoke would be receiving the Eglinton LRT and the much more express Waterfront LRT (from Long Branch) if Transit City is really put back in how it originally was.
If Transit City actually does go through, I hope it means another round of LRT expansion comes in 2020, and we can hit areas further north.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
The return of Transit City? Damn, this is not good news at all.
It's great news!
added_time
Member
One worry I have is that the provincial government could use another change of mind by Toronto Council as an excuse to cut a lot of the funding. I hope that isn't something they would consider.
Zombie James
Banned
I still think McGuinty was playing nice with Ford just because of the election. A mayor doesn't run a city like a dictatorship. If the majority of councillors support something and they vote on it, that's what passes. That's how it's always worked.
BigJonsson
Member
If Ford axes Stintz he will take a ton of fire for firing a woman in politics
And speaking to my own experience, I live close enough to Steeles to walk and take the bus to Finch if I don't drive to Finch or Yorkdale
My friends that live nowhere near a bus route to the subway always drive downtown and pay way too much in parking
Most of the time I don't understand why people would rather drive and pay to park when the subway is so close
And speaking to my own experience, I live close enough to Steeles to walk and take the bus to Finch if I don't drive to Finch or Yorkdale
My friends that live nowhere near a bus route to the subway always drive downtown and pay way too much in parking
Most of the time I don't understand why people would rather drive and pay to park when the subway is so close
Zombie James
Banned
Firing Stintz now would serve no purpose, the meeting's already been set and 24 councillors are already on board. All that would do is make Ford's contempt for transit, taxpayers, and democracy all the more public.
Convenience really. I'm only an extra 5-10 minutes north of you and most times I'd rather drive when possible. Don't want to deal with the 60 bus that can just infuriate me sometimes and then dealing with the drunk riffraff on the subway/bus ride heading back home.
Oh and then walking from Steeles back home at like 2:30am.
lunarworks
Member
Do you think he cares? He'll just gloss over it and say "Subways are what I was elected for. The taxpayers asked for subways, and I am going to deliver subways!"
Zombie James
Banned
Taxpayers also voted for no service cuts, guaranteed, but he doesn't give a shit about that one.
