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Toronto-Age |OT2|

Z

Zzoram

Member
Sober said:
I think I gave a toonie and never looked at the pamphlet when I got home, and this was back in first year uni.

I don't even want to get started on the sensationalizing of "Black history month"...
Click to expand...

Canada has a much smaller black population than the US, and Canada never had a significant black slave trade. Heck, Canada was the refuge the US black slaves would try to escape to in the underground railroad.

If anything, we should have a "Black history week" and "Aboriginal history month" since they are the largest and most historically mistreated ethnic group in Canada. We should probably even have a "Asian history month" since that is the largest ethnic minority population and there was a lot of mistreatment there too with the Japanese internment camps, Chinese head tax, and all those Chinese railroad workers/miners that were just slightly above slave labour that built Canada's infrastructure.
 
Z

Zzoram

Member
How about they keep TTC service, and lay off all the tellers who sell tickets and replace them with machines like those parking ones that take cash/coin/credit to sell tokens?
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Zzoram said:
How about they keep TTC service, and lay off all the tellers who sell tickets and replace them with machines like those parking ones that take cash/coin/credit to sell tokens?
Click to expand...

UI2Is.jpg


I wish we could. ;_;
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Zzoram said:
How about they keep TTC service, and lay off all the tellers who sell tickets and replace them with machines like those parking ones that take cash/coin/credit to sell tokens?
Click to expand...
You...do realize how unions work?

I'll accept we need token sellers...but cap their fucking wages and OT...
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Kuro Madoushi said:
You...do realize how unions work?

I'll accept we need token sellers...but cap their fucking wages and OT...
Click to expand...

Why though? Having staff at the busiest stations to direct tourist maybe, but why have fare collector's at every single station? Other city's with busier transit systems manage. I know why we have fare collector's, but I don't accept that we need them.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
EvilMario said:
Why though? Having staff at the busiest stations to direct tourist maybe, but why have fare collector's at every single station? Other city's with busier transit systems manage. I know why we have fare collector's, but I don't accept that we need them.
Click to expand...
Fake tokens and passes
People slipping through without paying
Security (lul)
Ask for help and directions

I know they're union...but come the fuck on at that pay rate with overtime?! = 100Gs?
 
D

daemonic

Banned
An automated system would just work perfectly fine. I'd say have employees stationed at major stops like Yonge/Bloor for example, but that would suffice.
 
S

Stet

Banned
Roto13 said:
We absolutely do not need token sellers. Cities that don't fail at transit like Toronto does don't have fare sellers.
Click to expand...

Or cut back fare sellers to the major stops. Bloor, St. George, Queen, Queen's Park, St. Clair West, Eglinton, etc.
 
S

somesayyea

Member
I think we're missing the bigger picture with this get rid of token sellers discussion. Getting rid of token sellers will not fix the issues with our transit system. We need more investment from all levels of government and we need to have some consistency from our political 'leaders' in regards to transit plans (i.e. stop with the flip flopping and changing of plans every time a new mayor/government is elected).

Getting rid of token sellers won't fix any of the major structural issues...
 
K

Kabuki Quantum Lover

Member
somesayyea said:
I think we're missing the bigger picture with this get rid of token sellers discussion. Getting rid of token sellers will not fix the issues with our transit system. We need more investment from all levels of government and we need to have some consistency from our political 'leaders' in regards to transit plans (i.e. stop with the flip flopping and changing of plans every time a new mayor/government is elected).

Getting rid of token sellers won't fix any of the major structural issues...
Click to expand...

Achievement Unlocked: Getting to the Root of the Issue.

I fully agree. I think Metrolinx needs to gain more influence in municipal transit systems and develop a province-wide public transportation system. It seems like we're going one step forwards, twelve steps back.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Yes, the Province needs to step in with funding, but the fare collector's are just a microcosm of issues with the TTC, refusing to move forward. There should be pressure on the Province to step up with funding, but the Liberals believe they own Toronto so much that it's not really a threat if they don't step in.

But the TTC needs to look in the mirror and realise its one of the most archaic transit systems imaginable in a city this size. They need to stop hiring for needless positions when there are retirements, and they need to actually hand out good contracts when there are projects like St Clair / Roncesvalles, instead of running three hundred percent over budget and overtime. They need to fix the overtime system so employees stop abusing it, and they need to look at a bunch of automation (which will never happen because of the strength of the union) like re-fillable smart cards for fares.

Blame all around, but don't act like the TTC is just the poor victim.
 
S

somesayyea

Member
The intent of my post was not absolve the ttc from any blame. It's obvious that there are some issues with the way in which the ttc as an organization is run. My point was simply to expand the scope of the discussion.
 
A

Azih

Member
Well the major problem with the system is congestion and the only way to relieve that is through massive capital investment (more track, more stations, more buses etc.). That that hasn't happened isn't the fault of the TTC or the city (other than horrible political leadership from the city of course). This is neglect from the province and the feds straight up. (I weep still for Transit City).

As for unions and automation. One thing I've noticed is that union members are selfish as all hell. They seriously give CEOs a run for their money in being self centered jerks. They'll sell out their younger members at the drop of a hat to preserve their own perks. I don't think the unions will give a damn as long as the labour layoffs are restricted to younger members, buyoffs are provided to those close to retirement, clamp down on overtime, and attrition. All of these will save money, it'll just be slower than it should.

But here's the thing. Automation requires capital investment as well.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Azih said:
Well the major problem with the system is congestion and the only way to relieve that is through massive capital investment (more track, more stations, more buses etc.). That that hasn't happened isn't the fault of the TTC or the city (other than horrible political leadership from the city of course). This is neglect from the province and the feds straight up. (I weep still for Transit City).

As for unions and automation. One thing I've noticed is that union members are selfish as all hell. They seriously give CEOs a run for their money in being self centered jerks. They'll sell out their younger members at the drop of a hat to preserve their own perks. I don't think the unions will give a damn as long as the labour layoffs are restricted to younger members, buyoffs are provided to those close to retirement, clamp down on overtime, and attrition. All of these will save money, it'll just be slower than it should.

But here's the thing. Automation requires capital investment as well.
Click to expand...

TTC does manage to push for funding on things like the Spadina extension (good), Sheppard Subway and extension (bad), and new streetcars / subway trains. When's the last time you hear the TTC Chair step out and say we need to look at automating the system more? They've had to be dragged, kicking and screaming to explore the Presto-card, and I don't think they're going to willing start to explore how to save money by replacing jobs.
 
A

Azih

Member
EvilMario said:
TTC does manage to push for funding on things like the Spadina extension (good),
Click to expand...
That's McGuinty's baby really.
When's the last time you hear the TTC Chair step out and say we need to look at automating the system more? They've had to be dragged, kicking and screaming to explore the Presto-card, and I don't think they're going to willing start to explore how to save money by replacing jobs.
Click to expand...

Giambrone said that he'd be fine with implementing Presto as long as the province paid for installing it. It's a turf war maybe but damn the dude was right that the TTC doesn't have the money to pay for it. As it's a MetroLinx thing than it makes sense that the province should pay for it.

At least there was a damn discussion. With Ford at the helm it's just cut, cut, cut.

Edit: Though looking it up more. Seems like Metrolinx forced some action on Presto

http://www.thestar.com/news/transpo...-wants-to-give-presto-smart-cards-green-light

But read the article. There's no funding for the damn thing. It seems like the province expects the city to pay, which is unfair on the city under any administration but Ford won't even pay for nurses to fight bedbugs.
 
S

soultron

Banned
Wanted to post this for fellow Toronto GAFfers:

Please note: This post is, in no way, endorsed by or sponsored by Gamercamp LV3 or its organizers.

othead.png


This weekend, Toronto comes alive with an electrifying 3-day-long festival of fun, friends, and games!

ABOUT: Gamercamp LV3 is the third iteration of what has become an annual festival here in Toronto. Organized by Toronto locals Jaime Woo and Mark Rabo, the festival aims to welcome everyone, be they developers or those who just enjoy games, into a convention like no other. Set over the course of three days, Gamercamp is packed with speakers, tournaments, live-action games set across the city, playtest sessions, alternative peripheral experiments, local talents (indie, AAA, emerging, etc.), film screenings, food, and much more.

You can come to learn and perfect your craft, as a game maker, while meeting with and learning from other developers. You can come to enjoy yourself and play a variety of games and participatory activities. Or you can do both. Once more, this is a festival that aims to bring everyone who partakes in the joy of play together -- no matter if you make games, play games, or do both.

-----------------------------------------/ABOUT

SCHEDULE: Note that some events occur at the same time as others, as Gamercamp occurs at multiple locations within Toronto.


Click here (or the above image) for the Friday schedule and locations!


Click here (or the above image) for the Saturday schedule and locations!


Click here (or the above image) for the Sunday schedule and locations!

-----------------------------------------/SCHEDULE

Check gamercamp.ca for more details, highlights, and the list of speakers!

AlphaTwo00 and I will be there volunteering. PM me if you want to say hello, as I'd love to meet you if you're going!
Click to expand...
 
R

Rinoa

Member
EvilMario said:
I have this image from the future, early next year, giving you an idea of what an average TTC bus / streetcar stop will look like.

fgJy4.jpg
Click to expand...

Flashbacks of yonge subway down and everyone crowding on bloor/yonge for the replacement buses that never come (and even if they did it's too crowded+traffic slow).

We REALLY need an effin relief line.
 
A

AlphaTwo00

Member
Rinoa said:
Flashbacks of yonge subway down and everyone crowding on bloor/yonge for the replacement buses that never come (and even if they did it's too crowded+traffic slow).

We REALLY need an effin relief line.
Click to expand...
It's really a chicken and egg issue. A relief line will never happen because there's not enough ridership, and ridership doesn't go up unless service is at a rate that would make people drop their cars. The suburban population, as much as they are disgusted with driving time, are more convinced that the TTC is a terrible system and cannot be trusted. Listen to the local radio stations, and that's what they preach. How would you convince people to take public transit if everyone badmouths it in the first place?
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
AlphaTwo00 said:
It's really a chicken and egg issue. A relief line will never happen because there's not enough ridership, and ridership doesn't go up unless service is at a rate that would make people drop their cars. The suburban population, as much as they are disgusted with driving time, are more convinced that the TTC is a terrible system and cannot be trusted. Listen to the local radio stations, and that's what they preach. How would you convince people to take public transit if everyone badmouths it in the first place?
Click to expand...
You tax driving. Of course, no one is crazy enough to actually do that.
 
L

lunarworks

Member
AlphaTwo00 said:
It's really a chicken and egg issue. A relief line will never happen because there's not enough ridership, and ridership doesn't go up unless service is at a rate that would make people drop their cars. The suburban population, as much as they are disgusted with driving time, are more convinced that the TTC is a terrible system and cannot be trusted. Listen to the local radio stations, and that's what they preach. How would you convince people to take public transit if everyone badmouths it in the first place?
Click to expand...

If you build it, they will come.

Well, aside from the Sheppard line. That was, and is, a stupid line.
 
S

ShaneB

Member
Won a couple of Leafs tickets last night at my work's holiday party. Great seats, but I'd much rather sell them and get the cash.

They're for Jan 5th against the Jets, section 116. If you know anyone who would want them, by all means let me know.

Looking online it just looks like a mountain of sellers, so I worry I'd just get lost in the shuffle, so I figured I'd ask here.
 
S

Stet

Banned
ShaneB said:
Won a couple of Leafs tickets last night at my work's holiday party. Great seats, but I'd much rather sell them and get the cash.

They're for Jan 5th against the Jets, section 116. If you know anyone who would want them, by all means let me know.

Looking online it just looks like a mountain of sellers, so I worry I'd just get lost in the shuffle, so I figured I'd ask here.
Click to expand...

What's the printed price?
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Damn! At Pizzeria Libretto their Danforth location. Just opened on Monday. Was packed last night and it looks to be just as good as the Oss location.

Ordered the Luigi and pork belly pizzas. Hopefully update with impressions soon.

Edit: I'm impressed and mighty glad they're here. I would not recommend the apps though since they're small and overpriced (almost the cost of another pizza). Wife says this location is better, I would say just as good.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
Kuro Madoushi said:
Damn! At Pizzeria Libretto their Danforth location. Just opened on Monday. Was packed last night and it looks to be just as good as the Oss location.

Ordered the Luigi and pork belly pizzas. Hopefully update with impressions soon.

Edit: I'm impressed and mighty glad they're here. I would not recommend the apps though since they're small and overpriced (almost the cost of another pizza). Wife says this location is better, I would say just as good.
Click to expand...

We definitely enjoy the Ossington and Dundas location. Will have to check out the Danforth one at some point. Is it any larger (seating wise)?
 
B

BladeWorker

Member
ShaneB said:
Won a couple of Leafs tickets last night at my work's holiday party. Great seats, but I'd much rather sell them and get the cash.

They're for Jan 5th against the Jets, section 116. If you know anyone who would want them, by all means let me know.

Looking online it just looks like a mountain of sellers, so I worry I'd just get lost in the shuffle, so I figured I'd ask here.
Click to expand...

Would, but I'm already going to that game.
 
A

AlphaTwo00

Member
firehawk12 said:
You tax driving. Of course, no one is crazy enough to actually do that.
Click to expand...
How. That's the big problem. The vehicle registration tax in theory pulls in income, but it doesn't actually affect people commuting from outside of Toronto, so it doesn't do anything in reducing traffic. And of course, putting a toll-booth around the border of the city isn't exactly "a method".

lunarworks said:
If you build it, they will come.

Well, aside from the Sheppard line. That was, and is, a stupid line.
Click to expand...
The idea with that was suppose to take people away from the DVP. The problem is that if commuters did that, their travel time downtown is the same, the cost would have been even more (parking at TTC Station + Metropass), and they are restricted by the TTC schedule. It's not surprising that no one benefited from it outside of condo developers.

It should be a lesson to all TTC plans in the future: relief lines NEED to actually significantly better option to pull people away from their cars.
 
B

BladeWorker

Member
AlphaTwo00 said:
It's really a chicken and egg issue. A relief line will never happen because there's not enough ridership, and ridership doesn't go up unless service is at a rate that would make people drop their cars. The suburban population, as much as they are disgusted with driving time, are more convinced that the TTC is a terrible system and cannot be trusted. Listen to the local radio stations, and that's what they preach. How would you convince people to take public transit if everyone badmouths it in the first place?
Click to expand...

The TTC raises its fares not just for revenue generation, but to try to relieve congestion on the system. It's overloaded. To say that there is not enough ridership is false.

People used to say that there wasn't enough ridership to sustain the Sheppard line, but ten years later it's doing well. A relief line would find use, someone just has to have the balls to commit the dough to building it.

It would also help if more provincial and federal tax revenues contributed to transit in this city, too, given that no major transit system that functions as it should has to rely, as the ttc does, so significantly on fares for operational income.

How do I propose to raise revenues? Congestion tolls, a la London. The technology exists, it's time we used it.
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
BladeWorker said:
The TTC raises its fares not just for revenue generation, but to try to relieve congestion on the system. It's overloaded. To say that there is not enough ridership is false.

People used to say that there wasn't enough ridership to sustain the Sheppard line, but ten years later it's doing well. A relief line would find use, someone just has to have the balls to commit the dough to building it.

It would also help if more provincial and federal tax revenues contributed to transit in this city, too, given that no major transit system that functions as it should has to rely, as the ttc does, so significantly on fares for operational income.

How do I propose to raise revenues? Congestion tolls, a la London. The technology exists, it's time we used it.
Click to expand...

TTC admits that it has enough ridership. In fact, they say every new rider means they have to shoulder more cost, and that's why they're cutting services and are talking about raising fares next year.

Agreeing on tolls, although people opposed will say any sort of congestion tax / tolls will cost the city business from places like the 905.

I think the system should explore things like BART in San Francisco has where you pay by distance. You swipe your refillable metropass when you go in and you swipe it when it goes out, deducting the proper amount for distance traveled.

I brought this up before, but people think that only the poor live in Etobicoke and Scarborough. But that's just not true, with some of the wealthier neighborhoods being on the outlying areas of the city, with very poor areas downtown (and vice versa of course).
 
A

AlphaTwo00

Member
EvilMario said:
I think the system should explore things like BART in San Francisco has where you pay by distance. You swipe your refillable metropass when you go in and you swipe it when it goes out, deducting the proper amount for distance traveled
Click to expand...
Which would require overhauling the whole token/transfer system. :p
 
S

ShaneB

Member
Stet said:
If you sell for ticket price, I might buy them. Depends on if my friend wants to go or not. I'll let you know soon.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me. I have no idea if I could sell them for a lot more than face value, but yeah, let me know whenever, no rush.
 
B

BladeWorker

Member
EvilMario said:
I think the system should explore things like BART in San Francisco has where you pay by distance. You swipe your refillable metropass when you go in and you swipe it when it goes out, deducting the proper amount for distance traveled.
Click to expand...

I feel like we've discussed this at length in the thread before. But yes, I agree that zoned fares are a good idea. And, oh look, we already use them on GO - just not to their prime effectiveness.
 
A

AlphaTwo00

Member
So, a quick catchup before I fall dead asleep:

Gamercamp was pretty cool. Didn't see any other gaffers around other than soultron. There was some sort of hoverhand post here.

Snakes and Lattes was there, with a pop-up coffee bar and a selection of their boardgames. WE TOTALLY NEED TO DO A GAF MEETUP THERE NOW! I've been told though that if we do plan to go on weekends (or with a big group), it might be best to call ahead (they're expanding right now).

I also bought this:
7kxjcr.jpg

Seems like it would be riot.
 
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