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Tour de France 2017 |OT|

C

Charamiwa

Banned
chicken_pasta said:
The unwritten rules are a beautiful part of the sport. I'd argue the group shouldn't stop if a guy crashes, because that's 100% on his skills. If the leader has a mechanical or another type of emergency (bathroom break), in my opinion, the other GC riders should wait for him. Aru's was a cheap shot, but he didn't profit at all from the attack. He slowed down and let the group catch him again, and actually ended up losing seconds to Froome.

Now let's look at Nairo's and Nibali's attack to Tom during the Giro:

At the end of Stage 15, the GC looked like this

Code: 
Classifica generale dopo la 15ª tappa
  1 Tom Dumoulin (Ola) Team Sunweb in 63h48'08"
  2 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team a 2'41"
  3 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ.fr a 3'21"
  4 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Bahrain-Merida a 3'40"
  5 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Katusha-Alpecin a 4'24"

During Stage 16, Tom had the bathroom break and the peloton attacked while he was out. The arrival of that stage was

Code: 
Ordine d'arrivo 16ª tappa: Rovetta-Bormio
1 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Bahrain-Merida in 6h24'22"
2 Mikel Landa (Spa) Team Sky s.t.
3 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team a 12"
4 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) Ag2r La Mondiale a 24"
5 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Katusha-Alpecin a 34"

Which changed the GC to

Code: 
1 Tom Dumoulin (Ola) Team Sunweb
2 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team a 31"
3 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Bahrain-Merida a 1'12"
3 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ.fr a 2'38"
5 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Katusha-Alpecin a 2'40"

Now that was an unfair attack. Had Nairo and Nibali not attacked Tom while he was out, he would've kept the pink for the rest of the Giro, which he deserved for being the best rider. During that stage, Nairo took 2'10" back from Dumoulin, and not because he was the better rider, but because Tom had to stop.

This is why I believe the unwritten rules are good. The overall winner is supposed to be the best overall rider of the peloton, not the opportunistic asshole who attacked while his rival was down, due to something out of his control.
Click to expand...

Can't believe we're still talking about this. Why would anyone stop and wait for Dumoulin in this case? Because he had a sick tummy? What if he had sick legs too, should we wait?

His body responded badly to the stage and he paid for it. That's exactly what cycling is about.
 
A

Addnan

Member
Since it's a day off you guys should read about ANC-Halfords. Quite crazy how that team got the the tour and how all of that was handled. Cycling podcast has a kilometer 0 called tour of survival, interesting listen and another one lunch with Paul Watson. Well worth a listen to learn about the last British team before Sky.


Km0 in here somewhere https://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/kilometre-0-tour-de-france-2017

Paul Watson https://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/lunch-with-paul-watson-episode-17
 
F

Fonds

Member
Thats Majka and Porte out of my velo team.
Guess I can forget about that now unless Pinot or Mollema step up.
 
J

Joni

Member
They need less teams, and they need to get the non-sprinting teams out of the hectical final kilometers of the sprint stages.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Joni said:
They need less teams, and they need to get the non-sprinting teams out of the hectical final kilometers of the sprint stages.
Click to expand...

Next year they are reducing teams to 8 people and they increased the time difference from 1 to 3 seconds before actual time is lost in a split this year but they should probably on flat stages lets GC contenders free wheel the last 2-3 km's.
 
J

Joelstinton14

Member
Fonds said:
The problem (in my opinion) with the unwritten rules is that there is a discrepancy between mechanical or physical failure.
For some reason most people still view the sport as a purely physical effort.
The bike is however a major part of the sport. Preparing your bike and set-up is just as big a part of it.

If your bike breaks down, then that's just your bad luck or poor preperation imho.

It's not as if we're seeing Lewis Hamilton take 5 when Max Verstappen his Red Bull has another engine failure.

Ditch these so called gentlemens' agreements and just let the fastest guy on the sturdiest bike win.
Click to expand...

The problem getting rid of 'unwritten rules' is that dilutes the racing.

Where do you draw the Line. What if a rider gets a puncture or mechanical on a flat stage, and the peloton attacks? A solid half hour riding from the peloton and that person would be effectively out of the race. That would be really shit.

Most people watch the racing because they want to see Froome vs Contador vs Quintana go hammer and tongs at each other on mountain stages. They don't want to see hollow victories because someone had a mechanical in an unfortunate moment.

I think they got the balance right as it is - if you are 'racing' and you get a mechanical, fair enough, bad luck. But if you are ambling up hill in a group and you get attacked as you get a mechanical its pretty shit.

The other thing you have to consider is that wearing the yellow jersey does not mean you are just the leader of the race - you have other responsibilities as well - you effectively become captain of the peloton. If road conditions are bad and there several bad crashes it may be seen that the yellow jersey discusses a truce with the other teams and they collectively decide to bring the peloton home safe, or like when Cadel Evans and others received punctures because of tacks , Wiggins decided to hold up and allow them to catch back on. (Admittedly it can also be abused like Lance abuse of Simeoni). So what i'm trying to say the Yellow jersey as more going on to it than just leader of the race - and there has to be some respect there. There has to be respect in the sport itself - otherwise you are just cultivating an atmosphere that isn't particularly pleasant , which is on show to the rest of the world.

TLDR: You shouldn't be attacked if you are ambling in a group/peloton, but if you are racing, and you get a mechanical , then bad luck. Pretty much as it is now.
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
Joelstinton14 said:
The problem getting rid of 'unwritten rules' is that dilutes the racing.

Where do you draw the Line. What if a rider gets a puncture or mechanical on a flat stage, and the peloton attacks? A solid half hour riding from the peloton and that person would be effectively out of the race. That would be really shit.

Most people watch the racing because they want to see Froome vs Contador vs Quintana go hammer and tongs at each other on mountain stages. They don't want to see hollow victories because someone had a mechanical in an unfortunate moment.

I think they got the balance right as it is - if you are 'racing' and you get a mechanical, fair enough, bad luck. But if you are ambling up hill in a group and you get attacked as you get a mechanical its pretty shit.

The other thing you have to consider is that wearing the yellow jersey does not mean you are just the leader of the race - you have other responsibilities as well - you effectively become captain of the peloton. If road conditions are bad and there several bad crashes it may be seen that the yellow jersey discusses a truce with the other teams and they collectively decide to bring the peloton home safe, or like when Cadel Evans and others received punctures because of tacks , Wiggins decided to hold up and allow them to catch back on. (Admittedly it can also be abused like Lance abuse of Simeoni). So what i'm trying to say the Yellow jersey as more going on to it than just leader of the race - and there has to be some respect there. There has to be respect in the sport itself - otherwise you are just cultivating an atmosphere that isn't particularly pleasant , which is on show to the rest of the world.

TLDR: You shouldn't be attacked if you are ambling in a group/peloton, but if you are racing, and you get a mechanical , then bad luck. Pretty much as it is now.
Click to expand...

Uran had a broken rear mech, could not shift, no one waited and he still won. Froome had a mech issue as well and could not shift. Why did they wait for froome but not Uran?

There is no "hallowed" victory if 1 person out of 10 gets a mech break. The break happened right at the base of the climb and the cars were still right there. It's not like this happened at the crest of a hill where NO cars could be found.
 
J

Joelstinton14

Member
TarpitCarnivore said:
Uran had a broken rear mech, could not shift, no one waited and he still won. Froome had a mech issue as well and could not shift. Why did they wait for froome but not Uran?

There is no "hallowed" victory if 1 person out of 10 gets a mech break. The break happened right at the base of the climb and the cars were still right there. It's not like this happened at the crest of a hill where NO cars could be found.
Click to expand...

They did wait for Uran though. He went back to the car, and Froome's group did not 100% sit up, but they knocked off some of the pace. I remember at the time it happening because the conservation about the Aru incident was still on going in here. Also that Martin only lost a minute with two crashes also points to that. There was a clear shot of them looking around for Uran until he joined back on. The fact he was still with them after going back to the car proves that. Unless the car kept up pace with them so he could join back on.

Again, As i said earlier, When Aru attacked they weren't really racing. They were ambling up the mountain. If froomes mech had broken when they had upped the pace and effectively 'racing' i wouldn't have had a problem with Aru attacking. It is just bad luck.

And it is pretty hollow victory if you are going along at a gentle pace and then suddenly attack because one has had a puncture.

But i guess some of us are always going to disagree on this so.. :)
 
T

teepo

Member
fucking greipel, the fuck has he been doing this year. he has continually been in a great position only to blow it in the final 1km. dude is getting old though
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Long straight roads, lazy day for the peleton and they are all falling asleep and falling down. Cataldo gone, Fuglsang and Bardet down and injured in some way.
 
F

Fonds

Member
Contador bring a complete dick while his teammate is down and clearly hurting.
He doesn't have to help him as he wants to stay close, but at least ask him if he's ok.... jeez.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Fulgsang has small cracks in his wrist and up near his elbow from his crash yesterday. Continuing on but it's going hurt going uphill out of the saddle, a lot.
 
F

Fonds

Member
Super misty.... this is going to be one hell of a dangerous descent.

Edit: well that cleared up quite quickly... nvm.
 
N

NewDust

Member
I might have overlooked it all this time, but now that I'm looking for it I can't see them anymore... Is the ardoisier (motorcycle with the time slates) still a thing?
 
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