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Tour de France 2017 |OT|

B

bobnowhere

Member
Per Race Doctor: Porte is ok, in hospital for observation. Apparently he braked to avoid another rider, probably Aru.

It's always funny to see Cannondale win, happens so infrequently, and that is from someone with two Cannondale bikes.
 
J

Joelstinton14

Member
Shanks D Zoro said:
That is a lot of big names out in a single day.

At least Greg agrees that Aru attacking was the right thing to do.
Click to expand...

It sucks really because we lose Man on Man action. Losing Valverde and Porte dilutes the field. I guess it is racing at the end of the day. At least bardet and Aru look like challengers this year.
 
S

Shanks D Zoro

Banned
Joelstinton14 said:
It sucks really because we lose Man on Man action. Losing Valverde and Porte dilutes the field. I guess it is racing at the end of the day. At least bardet and Aru look like challengers this year.
Click to expand...

Yep, Valverde would have loved today's stage.

Pretty much a three way battle, maybe Uran.
 
T

teepo

Member
loving aru right now

fuck the rules and especially fuck froome

speaking of which, do you think froome will be penalized for the shoulder bump like demare and bouhanni were
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
Froome's done it bar a crash. Bad form from Aru. Better luck next year Fabio. Hope Martin takes second. He's really improved this year.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
In these days of hyper sensitive machinery, I can't help wondering if a GC leader might consider faking a shifting problem or some other phantom mechanical if they were feeling particularly under threat.
 
C

chicken_pasta

Banned
Aru attacked, but then realized what was going on and slowed down. He's not a Quintana/Nibali type, to attack the leader while he poops.
teepo said:
loving aru right now

fuck the rules and especially fuck froome

speaking of which, do you think froome will be penalized for the shoulder bump like demare and bouhanni were
Click to expand...

I feel Froome was falling here. He apologizes shortly after.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
Had Aru gone there, we might have had an interesting race on our hands. As it is, you can't pry off the yellow jersey with a crowbar (it's against the unwritten rules).
 
C

chicken_pasta

Banned
jakonovski said:
Had Aru gone there, we might have had an interesting race on our hands. As it is, you can't pry off the yellow jersey with a crowbar (it's against the unwritten rules).
Click to expand...

I'm usually all about fair play, but if we want to see someone other than Froome in yellow, the lads will have to attack him at every chance they get, mechanicals included.

But really, I don't have a problem with Froome. He may not be a great entertainer, but he's clearly the most solid cyclist on the peloton, so there's little you can say.
 
C

chicken_pasta

Banned
Geoff said:
I'm not watching an 11 minute video to try and discern your position. Aru clearly attacked the second he saw Froome's arm go up. He was fifth wheel and went under his arm. You can argue the ethics of what he did but he definitely did it.
Click to expand...

You only need to watch from the timestamp I set. He attacks, but then slows down and is absorbed back quite quickly.
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
He slowed down because the rest of the group sat on his wheel and told him to stop. He didn't really have a choice if no one was going to work with him.

As for the ethics, this stuff happens every now and again and each time people respect the jersey, not the guy who's wearing it.
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
It means you don't take cheap shots at the tour leader. There is still honour in cycling. I think that's a good thing, even if it doesn't extend to not doping (in the past).
 
J

jakonovski

Member
Waiting for mechanicals or poopy butts is not particularly honourable to me, that's just making racing that much more predictable and boring. Not to say I wouldn't get salty if my fave got snubbed.
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
I never understood the mechanic debate when it's in a pack like that. If it's two or three riders out, sure but expecting an entire group to chill is kind of eh. It's just a weird thing because people don't hold up over flats.
 
T

teepo

Member
i don't even understand the whole poopy butt thing especially since nairo did slow down the attack (which movistar didn't even initiate) once he and everyone else knew what exactly happened. were they seriously supposed to stop the race so someone could take a dump?

the unwritten rules thing is such horseshit. people just draw the line whenever it's most convenient for whomever they're rooting for
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
TarpitCarnivore said:
I never understood the mechanic debate when it's in a pack like that. If it's two or three riders out, sure but expecting an entire group to chill is kind of eh. It's just a weird thing because people don't hold up over flats.
Click to expand...

You don't need to slow down on flat stages because everyone finishes together anyway unless there are cross winds.
 
C

captscience

Member
teepo said:
the unwritten rules thing is such horseshit. people just draw the line whenever it's most convenient for whomever they're rooting for
Click to expand...

I'm not a Froome supporter but I thought the attack was at best cowardly. The line in this case couldn't be any more clear. Aru literally attacked under the upraised arm of the yellow jersey. Listening to the Cycling Podcast, Aru claims he didn't realize Froome had a problem. That's obviously BS and to me, shows that he knows he made a questionable move.

I'm not quite sure why there's so much vitriol towards cycling's unwritten rules. It's part of what has separated and defined the sport and to me was one of the aspects that initially drew me to cycling. There seems to be quite the overreaching among Aru defenders that see traditionalists as people who don't want the yellow jersey to be attacked at all. That just nonsense.

Here's a nice video of Arnaud Demare's family waiting for him to finish today. In French but I think non-speakers will get the gist of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2-QshEJKLA
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
Duh! Sorry. I remember when some dick threw carpet tacks all over the road in 2012 Cadel Evans punctured and Wiggins/Sky neutralised it so he could catch up, although that was a bit different to a normal flat...

I think if the yellow got a flat they'd wait wouldn't they? I think it only works for the Maillot Jaune because when a you get a group like that, if someone attacks, they are principally attacking the leader first and foremost, who is typically more defensive.
 
S

seanoff

Member
Robbie McEwen on SBS is Australia called Aru's attack disgusting and later said he should be ashamed because it was behaviour not befitting his status as a pro bike rider.


Just in case you think Robbie is some scrub. 3X green jersey winner in the TdF and 12 stage wins. 12 Giro stage wins, etc.


Aru went way outside the understanding.
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
The thing is in an attack like that there shouldn't be neutralizing. So many things can go wrong on a climb and it may take time for any support vehicle to catch up. None of the pack stopped for the Porte crash I assume? Did anyone slow down when Uran was getting serviced? If I recall no one stopped when Froome ran with his bike last year.

It's just such an arbitrary thing and there's so many ways you can apply it. Having it only apply for the Yellow is even more dumb.
 
S

seanoff

Member
TarpitCarnivore said:
The thing is in an attack like that there shouldn't be neutralizing. So many things can go wrong on a climb and it may take time for any support vehicle to catch up. None of the pack stopped for the Porte crash I assume? Did anyone slow down when Uran was getting serviced? If I recall no one stopped when Froome ran with his bike last year.

It's just such an arbitrary thing and there's so many ways you can apply it. Having it only apply for the Yellow is even more dumb.
Click to expand...


It doesn't only apply to yellow tho. It applies to any contender whether for the overall classification or even just for a stage. If the same thing had happened to Aru, Porte, etc there would have been no attack and if there was there would have been the same response. Ie the person that attacked would have got abused too.

Its usually only for mechs, but mechs dont include dropping a chain, that's considered rider error.

If Aru had attacked before Froome put up his hand, all good. But he didnt. He attacked after. 10 secs earlier and he was free to go.

Crashes are also considered rider error so they are off the list generally. Except for the one year where the moto crashed and covered the descent in oil. In which case they neutralised the whole race AND where the crash is caused by spectators.
 
S

Shanks D Zoro

Banned
Robbie called it cowardly? Greg Lemond an actual tour winner called it part of racing.

All these commonwealth lads stick together and defend each other, but rarely give a fuck about anyone else who isn't in their circle.

People are chatting absolute bullshit when trying to defend the virtues of cycling. Cyxling is many things, honourable and made up of gentlemen is a load of bullshit.

This idea of the leaders jersey should be respected above all others is bullshit.

Why didn't Froome neutralise the race to allow Martin, who was sitting fourth only 25 seconds behind to catch up?

These unwritten rules are a crock of shit, racing is racing. If you have a mechanical and your opponents attack. Then unlucky. That is racing. And don't say but I got into cycling for them. A pretty big part of cycling is not cheating, but almost every single grand tour winner has pretty much done it one way or the other.

I love cycling, but the sooner this idea of unwritten rules is dropped the better.
 
T

teepo

Member
if that 30 for 30 documentary on lemond and hinalut taught me anything, it's that loyalty and honor ultimately mean shit
 
C

chicken_pasta

Banned
The unwritten rules are a beautiful part of the sport. I'd argue the group shouldn't stop if a guy crashes, because that's 100% on his skills. If the leader has a mechanical or another type of emergency (bathroom break), in my opinion, the other GC riders should wait for him. Aru's was a cheap shot, but he didn't profit at all from the attack. He slowed down and let the group catch him again, and actually ended up losing seconds to Froome.

Now let's look at Nairo's and Nibali's attack to Tom during the Giro:

At the end of Stage 15, the GC looked like this

Code: 
Classifica generale dopo la 15ª tappa
  1 Tom Dumoulin (Ola) Team Sunweb in 63h48'08"
  2 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team a 2'41"
  3 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ.fr a 3'21"
  4 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Bahrain-Merida a 3'40"
  5 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Katusha-Alpecin a 4'24"

During Stage 16, Tom had the bathroom break and the peloton attacked while he was out. The arrival of that stage was

Code: 
Ordine d'arrivo 16ª tappa: Rovetta-Bormio
1 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Bahrain-Merida in 6h24'22"
2 Mikel Landa (Spa) Team Sky s.t.
3 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team a 12"
4 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) Ag2r La Mondiale a 24"
5 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Katusha-Alpecin a 34"

Which changed the GC to

Code: 
1 Tom Dumoulin (Ola) Team Sunweb
2 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team a 31"
3 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Bahrain-Merida a 1'12"
3 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ.fr a 2'38"
5 Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Katusha-Alpecin a 2'40"

Now that was an unfair attack. Had Nairo and Nibali not attacked Tom while he was out, he would've kept the pink for the rest of the Giro, which he deserved for being the best rider. During that stage, Nairo took 2'10" back from Dumoulin, and not because he was the better rider, but because Tom had to stop.

This is why I believe the unwritten rules are good. The overall winner is supposed to be the best overall rider of the peloton, not the opportunistic asshole who attacked while his rival was down, due to something out of his control.
 
F

Fonds

Member
chicken_pasta said:
Aru you had to get those bonus seconds ffs!

Edit: good to hear Porte is still a cunt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCWvr4ne_Gc
Click to expand...

To be fair, that guy is a complete cunt himself.
"I was doing around 700 watts, not gonna put up Strava data...".
He's the kind of guy that sometimes makes me be ashamed to be a cyclist. Mouthing off at cars when theyre passing him at a completely safe distance.

Good thing Porte called him a cunt.
 
C

chicken_pasta

Banned
Fonds said:
To be fair, that guy is a complete cunt himself.
"I was doing around 700 watts, not gonna put up Strava data...".
He's the kind of guy that sometimes makes me be ashamed to be a cyclist. Mouthing off at cars when theyre passing him at a completely safe distance.

Good thing Porte called him a cunt.
Click to expand...

Haha I'm well aware of that. Durianrider puts up a pretty nasty persona, that's easy to tell.
 
30yearsofhurt

30yearsofhurt

Member
When Cadel Evans had his mechanical in 2011 did anyone slow down for him? No.
This selective reverence for the yellow jersey is 100% horseshit.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
One more thing about these unwritten rules. If they're so important, maybe they should be written down? Selectiveness is the only reason for them being unwritten.
 
F

Fonds

Member
The problem (in my opinion) with the unwritten rules is that there is a discrepancy between mechanical or physical failure.
For some reason most people still view the sport as a purely physical effort.
The bike is however a major part of the sport. Preparing your bike and set-up is just as big a part of it.

If your bike breaks down, then that's just your bad luck or poor preperation imho.

It's not as if we're seeing Lewis Hamilton take 5 when Max Verstappen his Red Bull has another engine failure.

Ditch these so called gentlemens' agreements and just let the fastest guy on the sturdiest bike win.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Yeah, I was thinking about that yesterday. When I'm racing on the mountain bike I take VERY sturdy versions of my the particular tyres I like.

There's a reason you almost never see me at the side of the trail dealing with punctures vs the guys running the paper thin (stupidly light / fast) versions of the same tyres.

By the same token, many guys will run heavy hub gears for reliability, and others run rigid carbon forks so that they don't risk suspension failure. Reliability is a very big part of ultra endurance events though.
 
L

luchadork

Member
its hard to feel bad for froome when him and sky are pushing the boundaries of sportsmanship every tour in their pursuit of 'marginal gains'.
 
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