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True Detective - Season 2 - We get the Season we deserve - Sundays on HBO

J

jelly

Member
The police chief reminds me of Enrico Colantoni from Veronica Mars and Person of Interest. I actually thought he looks so weird it might possibly be him in prosthetics and make up.
 
K

King Tubby

Member
WarrenMax007 said:
Like i was honestly scratching my head reading all the "who is Stan?" questions, because to me it was very obvious that he was one of Vince's men.
Click to expand...

The people asking "Who is Stan?" know that he's one of Vince's goons. That's apparent to everyone. The point of that isn't "OH MY GOD I AM SO CONFUSED" it's "Why is the show acting like this is such a big deal, having done none of the work in the previous 2 and a half episodes to establish this person in any way in the audience's mind?" It's especially galling given how many scenes have been wasted on ponderous, pretentious bullshit like Ray and Frank staring at each other in a bar in slow motion while a sad song plays. It's poor writing, made even worse by the scene where Frank is shown the body and Vince Vaughn absolutely fails at evincing the character's anger or sadness.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
King Tubby said:
The people asking "Who is Stan?" know that he's one of Vince's goons. That's apparent to everyone. The point of that isn't "OH MY GOD I AM SO CONFUSED" it's "Why is the show acting like this is such a big deal, having done none of the work in the previous 2 and a half episodes to establish this person in any way in the audience's mind?" It's especially galling given how many scenes have been wasted on ponderous, pretentious bullshit like Ray and Frank staring at each other in a bar in slow motion while a sad song plays. It's poor writing, made even worse by the scene where Frank is shown the body and Vince Vaughn absolutely fails at evincing the character's anger or sadness.
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding.
 
Grinchy

Grinchy

Banned
And it was the fact that the show took the time to show the dead goon's face twice, acting as if we were supposed to recognize him immediately and be shocked that he had died. It was shot as though it were some kind of big reveal.
 
C

cLOUDo

Member
the all "who is stan" stuff was a thing for me because i have no idea of the names of the character, except for farrell

for me is just vince,rachel, moto dude aka gay dude, vince's wife and velcoro
 
S

shadowkat

Unconfirmed Member
King Tubby said:
The people asking "Who is Stan?" know that he's one of Vince's goons. That's apparent to everyone. The point of that isn't "OH MY GOD I AM SO CONFUSED" it's "Why is the show acting like this is such a big deal, having done none of the work in the previous 2 and a half episodes to establish this person in any way in the audience's mind?" It's especially galling given how many scenes have been wasted on ponderous, pretentious bullshit like Ray and Frank staring at each other in a bar in slow motion while a sad song plays. It's poor writing, made even worse by the scene where Frank is shown the body and Vince Vaughn absolutely fails at evincing the character's anger or sadness.
Click to expand...

Well, I thought it was the construction guy since I didn't quite catch his name and because the relative importance the episode gave to him. Frank was using him to get back money and to have him die would be a blow. Stan is just some random henchman that we barely saw.
 
B

Big Baybee

Member
I don't think the show is bad, I like Rachel and Colin, but Vince is awful and John Carter is just bland. It feels like something that should be airing on CBS. I want to see where it goes, though.
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
duckroll said:
It doesn't seem very hard to understand. Vinci is a corrupt city. Everyone is on the take and has corrupt business interests. Ben Casper is the city manager and one of the many things he was doing was buying up land along the proposed high speed rail route through holding companies and offering portions of it to business partners who want to invest. He knew the exact route in advance and the fact that the deal would be approved because he was a city official involved in the meetings. Frank is a criminal thug who had his tentacles in everything in the city - clubs, casinos, money laundering, racketeering, etc but he sold it all off to go "legit" when the land investment deal was offered. Now Casper is dead and he finds out that his part of the deal was never confirmed, even though Casper took all his money. At the same time there's increased state attention on the corruption in the city, and the state attorneys are taking advantage of Casper's murder to get people from outside of the city into the city to get more dirt to build a case against the city officials.
Click to expand...

Great summary.

Add to that that Velcoro (Farrell) is under pressure from the City officials to solve the case in order to take the heat off them, whilst simultaneously being pressured by Seymon (Vaughn) to find out who did Casper in because presumably they have or know where his money is (which he's going to want back before any homicides get 'solved'). Plus also he's now been informed by his ex-wife that he's under investigation. Dude is between a rock, a hard place and then some.
 
B

biosnake20

Member
sflufan said:
Mercifully, only 8.
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w5spFaA.gif
 
M

MutFox

Banned
shadowkat said:
Well, I thought it was the construction guy since I didn't quite catch his name and because the relative importance the episode gave to him. Frank was using him to get back money and to have him die would be a blow. Stan is just some random henchman that we barely saw.
Click to expand...

So Stan isn't the construction dude?
The dead body looked like him I thought...
 
D

danthefan

Member
I loved the first series but not enjoying the second at all. The two mains in S1 put in performances so far beyond what any of the S2 cast are capable of it's not even funny. Vince Vaughan is particularly dreadful.
 
obin_gam

obin_gam

Member
Just read a theory on reddit about where this show is going and if it's correct (it seems fairly probable) then we're in for shit ton of cool dark stuff.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
Article on David Lynch references/influence in S2:

Mulholland Drive Some have already remarked on the fact that a street sign with the words “Mulholland Dr.” on it is prominently featured early on — indeed, there’s a big, fat close-up of it — in the first episode. Not only that, but the car passing by the sign in question is carrying the dead body of Ben Caspere, the city controller whose death sets off this season’s featured investigation, and the episode repeatedly cuts to its journey. In Mulholland Drive, the crash of the car in question set off the plot of that movie, and the film repeatedly cuts back to its journey. Also, we don’t know that the figure of Caspere is dead at first — he’s got sunglasses on and is sitting straight in the backseat, next to a not-entirely-un-Lynchian black crow mask, which of course will return in episode two.

The décor. It is very hard not to think at least a little about Twin Peaks in the flashback where Ray Velcoro (Colin Farrell), in full L.A. sheriff's department regalia, walks through a red door into a wood-paneled bar where Frank Semyon (Vince Vaughn) is sitting drinking coffee. It also feels like Ray is stepping into hell — which was an idea Twin Peaks played with as well. (Also, Blue Velvet, Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive … oh, right, every David Lynch movie is basically a journey into hell.)

Industrial blight. True Detective season two is set in and around the fictional city of Vinci, which we’re told is an industrial wasteland that’s effectively been given over to corrupt manufacturers for decades to do as they wish. Of course, industrial blight has been Lynch’s thing ever since his debut feature, Eraserhead. What’s notable about Lynch’s use of industrial imagery, however, is that it’s usually not particularly plot-oriented; he turns it into an abstraction and uses it to reveal his characters’ inner states of being. True Detective at first seems to treat the industry theme in more matter-of-fact fashion. However …

The soundtrack. The industrial noise and the low, bass rumbles heard throughout True Detective this season do feel very Lynchian and suggest that the show has taken that industrial aesthetic to heart in ways that go beyond mere plot — using this kind of heavily stylized sound design much the same way Lynch used it in Eraserhead, Lost Highway, and Inland Empire.

The songs. “Songs,” in this case, are different than “soundtrack.” Along with industrial noise and stomach-churning thrums, Lynch is well-known for prominently featuring dirgelike pop songs in his work, not just as a way to create mood but also as narrative and symbolic touchstones: “Blue Velvet” and “In Dreams” in Blue Velvet; “Crying”/”Llorando” in Mulholland Drive; Rammstein in Lost Highway; Julee Cruise’s songs in Twin Peaks; etc. It seems like True Detective’s new season has taken that idea to heart, most notably with Lera Lynn’s “My Least Favorite Life” in episode one and “The Rose” in episode three. Songs, it seems — sad, creepy, unsettling ones — are going to be a big part of this season. It’s worth pointing out that these songs aren’t just the usual type of soundtrack mood-filler: The action of the show often stops, or at least slows down, to indulge in these musical moments. This has attracted its fair share of criticism as well, but it also happens to be a thoroughly Lynchian concept.

Land development. In both True Detective and Twin Peaks, extra-legal machinations around land development seem to figure closely in the investigation of a murder. In Twin Peaks, local tycoon Ben Horne has nefarious plans to take over a local sawmill so he can turn it into a country club, while in True Detective a lot of local gangster Frank Semyon’s motivations have to do with trying to buy lucrative land being developed near an encroaching rail line. In both cases, of course, a line is drawn between American themes of development and expansion and horrific, perverse violence — a classic noir concept that both Pizzolatto and Lynch have clearly seized on.

Recording technology. David Lynch loves technology, and he loves using it in odd ways. So, too, does Nic Pizzolatto. In Twin Peaks, Agent Dale Cooper sent regular audiotaped missives to an unseen “Diane,” while audiotaped messages from Laura to her psychiatrist revealed key plot points; meanwhile, creepy-ass videos of Bill Pullman’s home in Lost Highway set that film’s “plot” into motion. In True Detective, we see Ray trading recordings with his troubled son Chad. There’s also a mysterious, remote-controlled video camera present when Ray is shot by a man in a crow’s mask, which may remind you of the voice-activated recording of a myna bird that witnessed a murder on Twin Peaks. Additionally, if there’s technology being used in weird ways, chances are porn is involved: We see this in Lost Highway, and True Detective has already given us a scene where Ani Bezzerides (Rachel McAdams) busts a porn webcam house where her sister is working (complete with chickens in the backyard).

Shooting the hero. At the end of season one of Twin Peaks, the show’s lead Agent Dale Cooper (Kyle MacLachlan) was unexpectedly shot by a masked gunman and left to die. At the end of episode two of this season of True Detective, Ray is shot by a masked gunman and left to die. Dale Cooper’s shooting, and his subsequent visit to what seemed like The Beyond, gave him important clues for season two. Which brings us to …

Conway Twitty in dream purgatory. As episode three begins, the just-shot Ray has a vision of himself sitting in a wood-paneled bar, having a highly symbolic, bizarre conversation with a younger version of his father, played by Fred Ward. (“Where is this?” “I don’t know. You’re here first.”) Meanwhile, Conway Twitty (or is it supposed to be a Conway Twitty impersonator, looking an awful lot like an Elvis impersonator?) sings “The Rose” in the background (read the story behind the song here). I’m not even sure where to start with this; I half-expected a “Guest Director: David Lynch” credit to float by on the screen after this moment. But suffice it to say that this half-dreamed visit to The Beyond will probably play some role in the remainder of this season, not unlike Dale Cooper’s own visitation after getting shot.

The dialogue. So far, this season has drawn its share of criticism — mainly for being too on-the-nose and filled with tough-guy clichés. To be fair, last season’s dialogue was also pretty portentous, but it was also delightfully weird, which undercut its self-importance. But True Detective’s general sense of self-conscious, surreal machismo is very much Lynchian — from its overt tough-guyisms (“This filth hurt your woman.” “I had a right, by any natural law”) to its oddball, overripe pronouncements. (“I like the bike. The highway suits me, sir. I am no good on the sidelines.” “Don’t ever do anything out of hunger. Not even eating.”)

A flamboyant psychiatrist. One of the most critical figures in the investigation into Laura Palmer’s murder on Twin Peaks turned out to be her very oddball psychiatrist, Dr. Lawrence Jacoby (played by onetime musical star Russ Tamblyn), who was fond of colorful shirts and cocktail umbrellas. So far, in True Detective, we’ve only met Ben Caspere’s psychiatrist (played by onetime rock star Rick Springfield) once, but he seems to be no less flamboyant, with his immobile face and his dandyish clothes (that ascot!). Something tells us we’ll see more of this guy as the season proceeds.

Surrealism. “You see that, too, right?” Caspere’s house is filled with weird fetish artwork and imagery, and this bizarre sculpture-installation-thingy of a miniature naked girl floating in a pool of milk might not even be the creepiest one. But it’s particularly mysterious because of the way it’s shot — as an insert, so we have no real sense of the scale of the thing. It looks just like a normal-size girl in a pool of milk. Lynch is a master of these kinds of offhand, dreamlike moments of surrealism — moments that make you catch yourself afterward and ask, “Wait, did I just see what I think I did?”

“What if I died there?” At the opening of episode two, Semyon lies in bed with his wife recounting a disturbing childhood memory about getting locked in the basement by his drunk father. He remembers how he was stuck there for five days when his father got arrested, and how he had to fight off some rats. “Ever since, I wonder, what if he never comes home?” Semyon muses. “What if I’m still in that basement, in the dark? What if I died there?” The thing that’s setting him off in this particular instance is two water stains above his bed. “Someone’s trying to tell me to wake up. Like I’m not real. Like I’m only dreaming.” Yes, this is probably Semyon’s way of noting that his money and power are whisper-thin. But this also recalls the big reveal at the end of Mulholland Drive, when we find out that the whole film has been, on some level, the dream of a dead woman, rotting away in a dark bedroom. And it also ties in with what appears so far to be a curious undercurrent of transcendence running throughout the show — an idea that ties directly with all of Lynch’s work, in which people often literally transcend levels of existence.
Click to expand...
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
I feel kind of bad for Kitsch. He's not a great actor, but he's doing the quiet stuff fine, which is what most of his work has been so far.

I get an uncomfortable vibe from him when the other characters are talking about women being interested in him, which is what he should be doing, but anytime he's had to show real emotions he falls flat.

He'd probably do a lot better with a goofy character, or someone like Marty.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
I like how that one guy called Kitsch out on his angsty cop drama bullshit. Makes me wonder if the character isn't normaly like that and he's just acting tough and serious so no one figures out he's gay.

Kitsch is secretly a good actor.
 
S

Syph Medwes

Member
Grinchy said:
And it was the fact that the show took the time to show the dead goon's face twice, acting as if we were supposed to recognize him immediately and be shocked that he had died. It was shot as though it were some kind of big reveal.
Click to expand...
The face thing is a good point.
overall though, i dont see the confusion. The point is simply another one of Frank's men is dead and it's leading to increased tension and paranoia. In this case, it's quantity over quality
 
D

duckroll

Member
I think when a show goes for a scene where you have a bunch of people in a gang standing over a dead body saying things like "Why Stan?" and "He didn't deserve this." and so on, there is an expectation that this is an important scene about someone of note dying which all these people apparently care about. If the audience has no idea who this person is and doesn't care at all, why bother having a scene like that?
 
M

Mr. Saturn

Member
Einchy said:
I like how that one guy called Kitsch out on his angsty cop drama bullshit. Makes me wonder if the character isn't normaly like that and he's just acting tough and serious so no one figures out he's gay.

Kitsch is secretly a good actor.
Click to expand...

All of the characters are angsty though, that's one of the issues with this season.
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
duckroll said:
I think when a show goes for a scene where you have a bunch of people in a gang standing over a dead body saying things like "Why Stan?" and "He didn't deserve this." and so on, there is an expectation that this is an important scene about someone of note dying which all these people apparently care about. If the audience has no idea who this person is and doesn't care at all, why bother having a scene like that?
Click to expand...

To establish the pattern of the murderer going after vaughn's people?

Show isn't very good but too many ppl are hung up over stan and why we should care, of course we're not supposed to give a shit about him, or even know who he is. It's just pointing out that vaughn's ppl are slowly getting snuffed out

As for cutting to the face its prolly to show that he was taken out the same way as Casper. With the eyes burnt out
 
J

jonezer4

Member
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
What the fuck does "Half anaconda half great white" even mean
Click to expand...

Pizza man could use an editor. That line could have been so much better. For instance.

LUKE WILSON
He looks... half anaconda, half great white...
(pauses, looks sad)
half jaguar... three fourths bald eagle...
(looks even sadder, like, really sad)
two thirds fruit bat, and...
(right in VV's face)
100 percent alien ghost.

Discotheque said:
To establish the pattern of the murderer going after vaughn's people?

Show isn't very good but too many ppl are hung up over stan and why we should care, of course we're not supposed to give a shit about him, or even know who he is. It's just pointing out that vaughn's ppl are slowly getting snuffed out
Click to expand...

The audience need not necessarily be devastated, but surely when someone is killed on one of the main character's crew, we should be feeling a growing sense of dread for Vince's fate. That dread would obviously be better elicited by us knowing (and better yet, caring) who Stan is. The dread is downright completely undermined by us saying "Who?"
 
T

thekad

Banned
Fathom said:
giphy.gif


Do yourself a favor and get out of the thread if you can't stand this show. Same goes for all the other people hating on it without actually criticizing anything. It's getting old.
Click to expand...

But duckroll said it isn't true. It's all legitimate criticism.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Discotheque said:
To establish the pattern of the murderer going after vaughn's people?

Show isn't very good but too many ppl are hung up over stan and why we should care, of course we're not supposed to give a shit about him, or even know who he is. It's just pointing out that vaughn's ppl are slowly getting snuffed out
Click to expand...

We already knew that Stan was someone working for Frank who didn't show up for work, and then he was found dead. The rest was unnecessary and typically only used when the dead character is someone worth a damn to the narrative. The reason why people are all going "who the fuck is Stan" is because the show went out of it's way to make Dead Stan seem like someone who people should be familiar with.

To avoid all this crap, the show could have just gone from Frank finding out that Stan was found dead right to the nightclub scene where he gathers everyone he has worked with to explain that one of his men was found dead and he wants to know what is going on. Then no one would be asking who the fuck Stan is.
 
W

WarrenMax007

Member
I think some of you are reading too much into that scene with Stan. It was pretty much this
Syph Medwes said:
The face thing is a good point.
overall though, i dont see the confusion. The point is simply another one of Frank's men is dead and it's leading to increased tension and paranoia. In this case, it's quantity over quality
Click to expand...
But i know that when something is supposedly bad, people will overanalyze every little detail, finding anything to hate on. There is legit criticism in this thread, but a lot of it is just hyperbole.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Fathom said:
giphy.gif


Do yourself a favor and get out of the thread if you can't stand this show. Same goes for all the other people hating on it without actually criticizing anything. It's getting old.
Click to expand...

I never read that neoGAF was a rainbows, unicorns and fairy dust forum filled with only happy positivity and that threads were merely for people who were currently enjoying something.

This is a forum where a lot of people liked the first season of True Detective and are currently aghast at the quality of the second season. Maybe you can be all grown up about the criticism and filter out what you don't like to hear instead?
 
vpance

vpance

Member
Anton Sugar said:
Article on David Lynch references/influence in S2:
Click to expand...

Maybe they should've went full on Lynch. But yeah, the references are plain to see, which I appreciate, cheap imitation or otherwise.

I think that's part of the reason why I don't have a problem with any of the acting, despite being somewhat stilted at times with questionable writing. I enjoy the overall weird vibe, and the case is still interesting enough for me to keep tuning in.
 
H

HoJu

Member
King Tubby said:
The people asking "Who is Stan?" know that he's one of Vince's goons. That's apparent to everyone. The point of that isn't "OH MY GOD I AM SO CONFUSED" it's "Why is the show acting like this is such a big deal, having done none of the work in the previous 2 and a half episodes to establish this person in any way in the audience's mind?" It's especially galling given how many scenes have been wasted on ponderous, pretentious bullshit like Ray and Frank staring at each other in a bar in slow motion while a sad song plays. It's poor writing, made even worse by the scene where Frank is shown the body and Vince Vaughn absolutely fails at evincing the character's anger or sadness.
Click to expand...

the show wasn't acting like it was a huge deal, Vince was. I don't get the obsession over Stan. He was one of Vince's men, who was seemingly loyal and close to him, and now he's dead. And now Vince is paranoid since it confirms that Caspar's death wasn't random, someone (or something!) is after him. that's it.

and i don't think the season is terrible, it's just that not much about it is sticking. Farrell is fun to watch though.
 
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