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[Phantast2k]

This is well beyond negligent. This is throughly malicious.

As tragic as it may be, the US has ceased to be an ally. It is time to accept it and plan a new global strategy for the next decade. There's a real chance the damage will be immense even if Trump doesn't get a second term.

This is not just a threat too, they're starting to act on it:
Donald Trump 'wants EU to break up in wake of Brexit vote', outgoing US ambassador in Brussels suggests

”To think that by supporting fragmentation of Europe we would be advancing our interests would be sheer folly," he said. ”It's lunacy."

He added: ”For us to be the cheerleaders of Brexit and to be encouraging Brexit Mark 2, Mark 3, is the height of folly."

Describing calls to EU institutions from Mr Trump's aides in recent weeks, Mr Gardner said: ”That was the one question that was asked – basically, ‘What's the next country to leave?'. Which is kind of suggesting that the place is about to fall apart.

Trump's America would absolutely not be an ally.

 

[CyclopsRock]

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Is this bait? I can't tell anymore.

Bait for what? The position I just put forward there is about as mainstream and accepted as it goes.

 

[TAJ]

So, if he doesn't want to spend on NATO, Iraq/Afghanistan, specialized planes and, I presume, American forces for UN peacekeeping missions... what military projects is he wanting to spending more money on? Nuclear arsenal and invading China?

He's specifically said that he wants to build our nuclear arsenal.
Beyond that, who knows? If we're lucky it will just be Reagan-style reckless procurement spending.

 

[Two Words]

wrong thread, lol.

 

[Kaako]

If Putin really planned everything to happen like, I have to at least give him props for that machiavellian masterpiece.

He played the entire nation(US) like a damn fiddle. There will be books and movies about this entire fiasco, no doubt.

 

[kess]

This is going to work out great when America alone has to deal with a resurgent Taliban in Afganistan

 

[FStubbs]

And the US has its hegemony, which up till now it considered to be worth the price.

Distancing himself from this mindset could actually bring the Republican establishment to turn on him and impeach him.

I doubt it considering the Republican base LOVES Trump. I sound like a broken record in this topic but I'll repeat again..

Racism. It is the most important core part of the Trump platform AND the Republican platform. The base loves to hate people. Trump is bringing that hate to the White House. Everything Trump has said here has a tinge of hate in it.

Remember, they voted to "Make America Great Again". That implies America is not great now so anything dealing with America "now" has to be dismantled to bring about the isolationist white utopia his voters desire.

 

[Joel Was Right]

They dont trust media, or facts, or science. So where does that leave our country?

I was about to post this.

Your society has failed if the electorate have no desire to Google what NATO, or climate change, is before making a decision on who to vote for President. If facts are "liberal bias", and therefore irrelevant, then unfortunately the great American experiment will have reached a sad end.

 

[thehypocrite]

Here's an English source:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...obsolete-and-dismisses-eu-in-german-interview

He's indifferent but can't help talking about it. Trump is a traitor to the human race and every living being including the earth. Fuck this piece of overrotten golden shit that carries a name. Your entire existence is an entire indictment of humankind.

 

[TAJ]

I was about to post this.

Your society has failed if the electorate have no desire to Google what NATO, or climate change, is before making a decision on who to vote for President.

But literally everything except OAN and Breitbart are ultra-left-wing propaganda.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Americans are paying for something they benefit from whether they know it or not: a world system dominated by the American order.

If countries fund their own militaries and no longer lean on US support, then there's no reason to regard America as papa and defer to their interests anymore. If you were going to write a history of how America shrunk from a superpower into a typical world player, this would be the first chapter.

I agree, but I disagree with the way you made those countries seem like vassal states. It is - or has been - a mutually beneficial, symbiotic relationship. American retains dominance in Europe, European countries can maintain very small militaries, they can benefit from MAD without needing their own nuclear programmes, and American homogenisation of power is a benefit for a continent that's scared of having another massive war. After the second world war, the tired nations of Europe were happy to concentrate on rebuilding domestically and outsourcing their defence to the US. That happiness largely exists to this day.

 

[thehypocrite]

Bait for what? The position I just put forward there is about as mainstream and accepted as it goes.

Yeah, sure. I'm sure that closing military bases of the US won't have innumerable repercussions for these countries in all sorts of ways. Life isn't a game of risk or civilization, it ain't as neat as your extremely superficial assessment would have you believe.

 

[slit]

This is not just a thread, they're starting to act on it:
Donald Trump 'wants EU to break up in wake of Brexit vote', outgoing US ambassador in Brussels suggests



Trump's America would absolutely not be an ally.

He's going to do whatever he can to try and weaken it, that's for sure with Russia pulling on the other end.

 

[Jisgsaw]

I doubt it considering the Republican base LOVES Trump. I sound like a broken record in this topic but I'll repeat again..

Racism. It is the most important core part of the Trump platform AND the Republican platform. The base loves to hate people. Trump is bringing that hate to the White House. Everything Trump has said here has a tinge of hate in it.

Remember, they voted to "Make America Great Again". That implies America is not great now so anything dealing with America "now" has to be dismantled to bring about the isolationist white utopia his voters desire.

I know the Trump 's base is like that.
However, his base is not in the Congress/Senate. When his actions will start to turn against the interests of these congressmen and senators, they'll probably go ahead and support the Democrats for impeachment, I'm sure they'll find some reasons that don't upset their base too much.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I'll panic when troops start pulling out of Poland
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/14/europe/poland-us-troops-nato-welcome/

I'm guessing that was a recent Obama move. So we should expect Trump to start backing up his talk with action as soon as he is in the White House.

Is he going to make deals with NATO, he wants them to pay a protection tax like a gangster so freaking weird this world

 

[Opto]

Trump wants to use the nuclear arsenal as a power move to force countries to kneel to the US. He wants Russia and the US to be major powers carving up the planet.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

At this point this is surreal..... are we all such sheep we'll follow this guy when it's clear he's doing things for the benefits of Russia?

 

[royalan]

They dont trust media, or facts, or science. So where does that leave our country?

Like all things revealed. People just double down. Ignore Nato for a second and think about his constant stream of actions and words. People voted for it.

No reason to think any understanding of nato would mean anything after kellyanne gave them their retorts for Facebook.

Oh no, I agree. But people not understanding NATO occurred well before this election.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

He played the entire nation(US) like a damn fiddle. There will be books and movies about this entire fiasco, no doubt.

Your generation will have a tough job explaining your grandchildren what the fuck was wrong with you. Greetings from Germany.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Trump wants to use the nuclear arsenal as a power move to force countries to kneel to the US. He wants Russia and the US to be major powers carving up the planet.

Yep, I read that article..... the joke is when Putin says Psyche you handle this while my country benefits monetarily and politically from America being unstable

 

[CyclopsRock]

Yeah, sure. I'm sure that closing military bases of the US won't have innumerable repercussions for these countries in all sorts of ways. Life isn't a game of risk or civilization, it ain't as neat as your extremely superficial assessment would have you believe.

Are you sure you're quoting the right person? When did I say any of that?

 

[slit]

I have a feeling Trump is going to try and make sweetheart trade deals with the UK to make it seem safe to leave the EU for countries that are frustrated.

 

[Opto]

Yep, I read that article..... the joke is when Putin says Psyche you handle this while my country benefits monetarily and politically from America being unstable

Do you have that article on hand? I was looking for it but couldn't find it

 

[Ollie Pooch]

I'm sure that Donald came to this conclusion entirely on his own, and that has nothing to do with the fact that dismantling, dividing or otherwise weakening NATO is Russia's #1 foreign policy goal.

I'm shocked at how openly he is doing all this stuff - his first presidential meeting with Putin, making these comments about NATO, basically falling into line with every Russian policy. He just doesn't care.

 

[Nafai1123]

All according to pl...Putin.

 

[thehypocrite]

Are you sure you're quoting the right person? When did I say any of that?

Yes. I quoted the right person and post.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Man, where are we going

 

[dragonelite]

America has been a super power long enough to see itself become the villian.

 

[Kaako]

At this point this is surreal..... are we all such sheep we'll follow this guy when it's clear he's doing things for the benefits of Russia?

Sadly this is where we are currently as a nation/society are we not? Or this orange fuck wouldn't have even made it out of the primaries.

Your generation will have a tough job explaining your grandchildren what the fuck was wrong with you. Greetings from Germany.

Fucking tell me about it.
Greetings from I don't even know anymore.

 

[pulsemyne]

Good job the rest of the EU countries aren't stupid enough to leave. They are all just looking at the UK to wait and see what a shit show it's going to be.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Yes. I quoted the right person and post.

Well, I have no idea why you think that I think it's all easy least lemon squeezy. It's difficult, difficult, lemon, difficult. But since I didn't say it was easy, and you haven't actually substantively said what you disagree with, I can't do much to respond to you.

 

[Palette Swap]

This is not just a threat too, they're starting to act on it:
Donald Trump 'wants EU to break up in wake of Brexit vote', outgoing US ambassador in Brussels suggests



Trump's America would absolutely not be an ally.

I wonder how he would react if a foreign head of state actively wanted US states to break from the Union.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I'm shocked at how openly he is doing all this stuff - his first presidential meeting with Putin, making these comments about NATO, basically falling into line with every Russian policy. He just doesn't care.

That he doesn't care isn't even the worst part. That not all US politicians are up in arms and readying themselves to kick this guy out is more worrying.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

He is right in that when NATO was founded the continent of Europe was devastated and was not in a position to defend itself militarily. The US had a huge reason to defend those nations because it was investing heavily in rebuilding them and had to secure it's investment. However, the economy was rebuilt long ago.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Do you have that article on hand? I was looking for it but couldn't find it

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/12...teaming-up-with-russia-political-writer-says/

Here you go, it's a summary but links to the actual article that was posted on Twitter.

 

[Already Torn]

So like, at this point all of the countries in the world are gonna have to start calling for him to be impeached on the grounds of being a Russian puppet too, yeah?

 

[Cromat]

This is the end of the world as we know it.

Spoiler

i don't feel fine

 

[Phantast2k]

Good job the rest of the EU countries aren't stupid enough to leave. They are all just looking at the UK to wait and see what a shit show it's going to be.

Um, there going to be elections in France and Germany in 2017. We just saw how Russia alone has been able to influence US elections. Together with US they could a whole lot more to get scum like AfD and Front National elected or near power (in Germany).
A EU without either of those countries is hard to imagine.

 

[BocoDragon]

I agree, but I disagree with the way you made those countries seem like vassal states. It is - or has been - a mutually beneficial, symbiotic relationship. American retains dominance in Europe, European countries can maintain very small militaries, they can benefit from MAD without needing their own nuclear programmes, and American homogenisation of power is a benefit for a continent that's scared of having another massive war. After the second world war, the tired nations of Europe were happy to concentrate on rebuilding domestically and outsourcing their defence to the US. That happiness largely exists to this day.

They're not vassals. But American presence does serve to prop up America's interests abroad regardless of how warmly the host country feels about it. That's why it's a bizarre move to say "pay up" when the ultimatum is threatening to give up America's strategic advantage.

I'd also say that in any country hosting an American military presence, there is a large percentage of the population who'd wish they left tomorrow. It's just not politically prudent to do so when America's maintaining the stability of your region at little cost to you, but serving them with a "pay up" is a funny sentiment when a lot of the reaction might be "we didn't even really want you here in the first place...? We thought it was primarily your advantage to be here?"

 

[KingSnake]

This is well beyond negligent. This is throughly malicious.

As tragic as it may be, the US has ceased to be an ally. It is time to accept it and plan a new global strategy for the next decade. There's a real chance the damage will be immense even if Trump doesn't get a second term.

US actively trying to dismantle EU and NATO is the opposite of an ally for western Europe.

 

[CrunchyB]

After the second world war, the tired nations of Europe were happy to concentrate on rebuilding domestically and outsourcing their defence to the US. That happiness largely exists to this day.

This decision was not entirely voluntary, the US forced Western Europe to quit their colonial ambitions.

NATO and the Marshall Plan were the carrots. These helped secure American hegemony and was in many respects a brilliant move.

 

[LegendofJoe]

US actively trying to dismantle EU and NATO is the opposite of an ally for western Europe.

There are millions here who want nothing to do with the DumbFuckistan America that Trump is trying to create. We need all the help we can get to turn the tide. The right has Russia, who do those of us on the left have?

 

[Opto]

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/12...teaming-up-with-russia-political-writer-says/

Here you go, it's a summary but links to the actual article that was posted on Twitter.

thanks. now back to vomiting from anxiety

 

[norinrad]

Vladimir is rubbing his hands right now. He's just sitting next door patiently waiting for agent Trump to finish his assignments.

 

[thehypocrite]

Well, I have no idea why you think that I think it's all easy least lemon squeezy. It's difficult, difficult, lemon, difficult. But since I didn't say it was easy, and you haven't actually substantively said what you disagree with, I can't do much to respond to you.

The way you presented the option for these countries to get the military bases of the US out of their territories was such a gross oversimplification that you might as well. This isn't Twitter. You can write as much as you need to explain your positions. There's also saying the "US tax payers are funding their security" which is 100% fake news bullshit. Those bases are there to protect US tax payers interest first and foremost.

Freedom ain't free, commerce ain't free, trade ain't free, nothing is fucking free, not even peace. So yes, you did presented a half-baked post that grossly simplified a rather complex dynamic.

 

[Sou Da]

Of course NATO isn't trending on twitter huh. Damn shame no one can get organized to control social media trends like those /pol/ fucks.

 

[Opto]

So like, at this point all of the countries in the world are gonna have to start calling for him to be impeached on the grounds of being a Russian puppet too, yeah?

a country calling for a US president to be impeached would go very poorly over here. GOP base would set deflectors to maximum and, ironically, would be called foreign interference on our democracy

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

Could it be that Putin is aiding and funding -besides Trump- people like Le Pen in France, Wilders in The Netherlands and the AfD in Germany (and maybe Farage in the past) for the sole purpose of weakening the EU and NATO and therefore strengthening Russia as a kind of prelude to occupying and / or enlargen their influence sphere in Eastern Europe like they did in Ukraine?

Should we look to ties between Wilders, Le Pen, the AfD on the one hand and Putin on the other hand?

Are they trying to build a new World Order or am I now a tin foil hat wearer?

EDIT: it can't be a coincidence that like Trump is refusing to sgow his tax return, Wilders doesn't want to show the foreign investors of his party.

 

[Already Torn]

a country calling for a US president to be impeached would go very poorly over here. GOP base would set deflectors to maximum and, ironically, would be called foreign interference on our democracy

Wouldn't it just be an asset that the next president would have their blessing vs Trump?

 

[Principate]

Could it be that Putin is aiding and funding -besides Trump- people like Le Pen in France, Wilders in The Netherlands and the AfD in Germany (and maybe Farage in the past) for the sole purpose of weakening the EU and NATO and therefore strengthening Russia as a kind of prelude to occupying and / or enlargen their influence sphere in Eastern Europe like they did in Ukraine?

Should we look to ties between Wilders, Le Pen, the AfD on the one hand and Putin on the other hand?

Or am I now a tin foil hat wearer?

This is old and well known. Le pen has even had a meeting in the trump tower