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[slit]

Wouldn't it just be an asset that the next president would have their blessing vs Trump?

No, not in the current U.S. political climate. We're going through a very protectionist period right now.

 

[paperboywriter]

Putin won another election. God fucking damn it.

 

[Xando]

Could it be that Putin is aiding and funding -besides Trump- people like Le Pen in France, Wilders in The Netherlands and the AfD in Germany (and maybe Farage in the past) for the sole purpose of weakening the EU and NATO and therefore strengthening Russia as a kind of prelude to occupying and / or enlargen their influence sphere in Eastern Europe like they did in Ukraine?

Should we look to ties between Wilders, Le Pen, the AfD on the one hand and Putin on the other hand?

Are they trying to build a new World Order or am I now a tin foil hat wearer?

EDIT: it can't be a coincidence that like Trump is refusing to sgow his tax return, Wilders doesn't want to show the foreign investors of his party.

Le pen has been getting money from russian banks close to putin.
Afd got some shady money from russia via switzerland.
These things have been going on for some time now.

 

[thehypocrite]

He is right in that when NATO was founded the continent of Europe was devastated and was not in a position to defend itself militarily. The US had a huge reason to defend those nations because it was investing heavily in rebuilding them and had to secure it's investment. However, the economy was rebuilt long ago.

NATO was funded not just for that reason. It was also created to foster long term peace in the region and it has been extremely successful in that regards. Is fucking peace obsolete? Please do tell.

 

[Principate]

Looks like we may actually see the end of US hegemony in our lifetimes. Never thought I'd see the day.

 

[radios shipping overview]

The Manchurian Asshole from Queens.

 

[DjRalford]

I'm gonna start putting bets on how long until he is assasinated, if he carrys on someone will rub him out.

 

[Buzzman]

Well, looks like the world is just about ready to plunge into fascism once again, hopefully tens of millions won't be exterminated this time.

 

[paperboywriter]

He is right in that when NATO was founded the continent of Europe was devastated and was not in a position to defend itself militarily. The US had a huge reason to defend those nations because it was investing heavily in rebuilding them and had to secure it's investment. However, the economy was rebuilt long ago.

Pls, go and hit the books. What a load of drivel.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

The EU needs an army badly.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Is fucking peace obsolete? Please do tell.

I don't know why you are dumping this on me.

I said that it was more of a necessity then because Western Europe was incapable of defending or uniting itself.

What you are saying is just your private fantasy.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

He's going to destroy modern Western institutions/thinking.

 

[metalslimer]

Looks like we may actually see the end of US hegemony in our lifetimes. Never thought I'd see the day.

We deserve it.

 

[CrunchyB]

Could it be that Putin is aiding and funding [snip] Wilders in The Netherlands

Wilders is funded, amongst others, by some American Zionists. He is staunchly pro-israel and anti-Islam, so that makes sense I guess. I think he is rather neutral on Russia.

LePen Senior is a giant antisemite, but his old party, now led by his daughter, has subdued this message for electorial purposes.

 

[thehypocrite]

I don't know why you are dumping this on me.

I said that it was more of a necessity then because Western Europe was incapable of defending or uniting itself.

What you are saying is just your private fantasy.

It was put on you for the ignorant drivel you posted.

 

[Lowmelody]

Trump wants to use the nuclear arsenal as a power move to force countries to kneel to the US. He wants Russia and the US to be major powers carving up the planet.

Yup, Trump himself openly talked about this exact thing since the 80's.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Americans elect man who believes NATO is obsolete, Muslims should be put on a database and climate change is a Chinese hoax.

Every major policy Trump has advocated seems to have been approved by, at least, 47% of the American electorate. Crucially, these positions are not new - he held them throughout his campaign and people readily embraced them.

Rather than portraying this as the words of a sole lunatic, it's time people here deal with the reality that half the country supports lunacy. The country is going to hell and all people seem to be debating is one man; it is infuriating to see how blind people are to the underlying causes.

Trump is a disaster but the responses here tell me that Europe needs to get it's shit together. Hand wringing over NATO looks weak after all these years

 

[gutter_trash]

Fuck Trump

 

[E92 M3]

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

He will go down in history as the worst president the US ever had.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

It was put on you for the ignorant drivel you posted.

If it's drivel then explain why I am factually incorrect in saying that Europe was more needing of investment and protection then than now.

Do you think that just Germany and France together could not be capable of defending their countries against Russia if they had to and were given time to organise and combine their defence policies?

 

[Aarglefarg]

other EU countries are to follow en-suite, "as a friend told him".

For some urination play?

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

He will go down in history as the worst president the US ever had.

Hard for you to go down as the worst in history if history ends with you. No one will be around to remember it.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Someone told me awhile back that protecting the European countries are still one of the things Americans would support militarily.... doesn't seem to look like it from where I'm standing...

 

[Dopus]

Could it be that Putin is aiding and funding -besides Trump- people like Le Pen in France, Wilders in The Netherlands and the AfD in Germany (and maybe Farage in the past) for the sole purpose of weakening the EU and NATO and therefore strengthening Russia as a kind of prelude to occupying and / or enlargen their influence sphere in Eastern Europe like they did in Ukraine?

Should we look to ties between Wilders, Le Pen, the AfD on the one hand and Putin on the other hand?

Are they trying to build a new World Order or am I now a tin foil hat wearer?

EDIT: it can't be a coincidence that like Trump is refusing to sgow his tax return, Wilders doesn't want to show the foreign investors of his party.

Not occupying. Ukraine and South Ossetia have large ethnic Russian populations who are and were supportive of Russia. So it is a little more complicated. Other countries along the border have smaller populations and are far more hostile to Russian intervention.

Now, does Putin want more influence over Eastern Europe? The answer is of course he does. But he's not going to go invading them, at least we don't have any indication of such an escalation. Indeed, if that were to happen then it would be disastrous for everyone.

Regarding your concerns about Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders, there's little doubt he is using and exploiting the rise of right of the right as a way to further Russian influence over the region and weaken the Union. It serves their interests to have countries have closer relations and trade deals with them as opposed to the union itself. It's to their benefit that fragments.

Le Pen in particular has had a couple of deals, one of which was a Russian bank loan that allegedly has ties to the Kremlin. The rationale she gives for such deals is that French banks won't loan the money. The last loan I believe she attempted to negotiate was also with a Russian bank, but it failed to materialise. Wilders doesn't say much in regards to Russia. He's mostly running off the platform of Islamophobia. Farage, nah. Most of these have varying reasons for their position but share the common 'fear' of immigration and 'open borders'. It's not all connected.

 

[iz.podpolja]

Poland is just a Russian exclave at the moment. Government runs the show closer to a repressive secret police state than a democracy.

It's really bad. I wonder if Obama put those tanks there to protect Poland from Russia or Poland from itself . . .

Well, as for the status of political freedom in Poland it hasn't reached yet Hungarian level of authoritarianism (not saying it won't).
Ironic that even though the current government is openly mimicking the same "sovereign democracy" model as introduced in Russia, it is also (as all major political forces in Poland) starkly anti-Russian.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

He will go down in history as the worst president the US ever had.

How can you say that coming off Barack HUSSEIN Obummer. The man who took away all our guns, invaded Texas, implemented a marxist health care dystopia, made Islam the official state religion/banned Christianity and sold out the country to Iran!

 

[excelsiorlef]

If it's drivel then explain why I am factually incorrect in saying that Europe was more needing of investment and protection then than now.

Do you think that just Germany and France together could not be capable of defending their countries against Russia if they had to and were given time to organise and combine their defence policies?

Thread Trump says NATO is obsolete.

What you said: He's right... explanation why.... without any indication that you think he's wrong when he says that it is obsolete...

 

[thehypocrite]

If it's drivel then explain why I am factually incorrect in saying that Europe was more needing of investment and protection then than now.

Do you think that just Germany and France together could not be capable of defending their countries against Russia if they had to and were given time to organise and combine their defence policies?

Here's how I know you're dishonest presenting hypocritical arguments. In your original post you took the costs into consideration when presenting your opinion about the creation of NATO, now on the hypothetical you ask if they could without taking into consideration the cost that such a war will impose on those countries, heck, they may not even be a war when nuclear superpowers collide an the entirety of humankind would be at risk of destruction. Those are the fucking stakes, that's why peace and the institutions that provide the sustenance for peace are so important. So, yes, you are wrong and your posts is full of assumptions that disregard the spectrum of possibilities at play.

 

[tuxfool]

Well, as for the status of political freedom in Poland it hasn't reached yet Hungarian level of authoritarianism (not saying it won't).
Ironic that even though the current government is openly mimicking the same "sovereign democracy" model as introduced in Russia, it is also (as all major political forces in Poland) starkly anti-Russian.

They would be, they're the ones that really suffered when they last were under the Russian sphere of influence.

 

[slit]

If it's drivel then explain why I am factually incorrect in saying that Europe was more needing of investment and protection then than now.

Do you think that just Germany and France together could not be capable of defending their countries against Russia if they had to and were given time to organise and combine their defence policies?

It's not about Russian tank forces rolling into Western Europe. It's about Russia having unchecked power in the former Soviet sphere of influence. Those countries are still very weak and susceptible to Russian exploitation. France, Germany, and the UK would be completely capable of defending themselves but they would not have a unified stance on how to handle Russian aggression in Eastern Europe. Do you know how the World Wars started? It started because nobody had consensus on what to do about military aggression until it was too late.

 

[Steel]

It's not only he says a good deal is possible with Britain, he has the throw the EU under the bus as well.

Now who could benefit from a broken Europe?

Who?

Who?

Who?

Trump's good friend.

 

[Red]

The guy is clearly showing signs of mental illness. How do people not see this every time he makes a speech?

We put meekrochip in his head.

 

[D i Z]

He told you all that he was going to burn it all down. You said that he was to stupid to be serious.
Brexit told you all you needed to know about how far this was going to move, and that was just the beginning.
Look to French and Germany for their coming struggles to stay on the side of reason.

 

[Vuze]

The guy is clearly showing signs of mental illness. How do people not see this every time he makes a speech?

Wondering the same. I haven't seen him delivering a single cohesive speech without drifting into a spiral of unrelated ranting or other weird shenanigans. But perhaps that's just the plan all along.

ISIS is #1 tricky btw

 

[Trickster]

Hard for you to go down as the worst in history if history ends with you. No one will be around to remember it.

I'm sure someone will manage to etch into stone just how awful Trump was before we all die. This way the aliens who eventually stumple onto earth will know

 

[darkwing]

I thought it was January 20, whew what a nightmare

 

[mlclmtckr]

Translator's note: Keikaku means Putin

 

[Joezie]

The military complex won't like not having to do build and do stuff so how does he compensate, start a few wars with someone?

The Military-industrial complex is a national security gauge for politicians in general. Just because the US isn't at war, doesn't mean it won't build new equipment. It will simply build for the war it THINKS it might have vs the war it is currently having.

The F-15 and 16 were introduce for combat service in 74 and 78 respectively, and yet neither of them would see actual war(US F-15's, Israelis saw combat within a year of introduction) until desert storm and the Balkans in the 90's.

 

[The Artisan]

him in office is going to be a disaster on all fronts.

fixed, god forbid

 

[SporeCrawler]

Europe needs to get their shit together and unify asap. Enemies on all fronts at this point.

Eastern Europe going to have a panic attack over this.

Time to arm up in the EU if this clown actually continues this bullshit.

Oh, and NATO does nothing against terror? Short memory Trump. America is the only country to ask NATO to go to war, in response to a terror attack.

Isnt Poland (PiS) pretty much chummy with Putin now though? Same with Orban.

 

[Kusagari]

In direct opposition to the majority of his party and his defense secretary.

This administration is going to be such a cluster fuck.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Here's how I know you're dishonest presenting hypocritical arguments. In your original post you took the costs into consideration when presenting your opinion about the creation of NATO, now on the hypothetical you ask if they could without taking into consideration the cost that such a war will impose on those countries, heck, they may not even be a war when nuclear superpowers collide an the entirety of humankind would be at risk of destruction. Those are the fucking stakes, that's why peace and the institutions that provide the sustenance for peace are so important. So, yes, you are wrong and your posts is full of assumptions that disregard the spectrum of possibilities at play.

The cost of a nuclear war would be horrific with or without NATO. I'm not sure what you are saying here as lots of countries are not in NATO but that does not immediately mean that Russia will think that launching a nuke at them would be fine. I think that the last time a nuke was seriously considered as an option was in the Korean war by the USA but thankfully it was decided against.

The main purpose of NATO is to defend Europe from Russian aggression or to deter that aggression. Sadly nuclear weapon deployment is part of that but France has it's own nuclear weapons program also. But really I think that spending on conventional forces and anti terrorism is what most people think about. As in should Europe reconsider how much it needs to do to protect itself from potential Russian aggression and reconsider the challenges that face the world in the future. Really the best defence is for war to be politically and economically impossible in the first place.

It's not about Russian tank forces rolling into Western Europe. It's about Russia having unchecked power in the former Soviet sphere of influence. Those countries are still very weak and susceptible to Russian exploitation. France, Germany, and the UK would be completely capable of defending themselves but they would not have a unified stance on how to handle Russian aggression in Eastern Europe. Do you know how the World Wars started? It started because nobody had consensus on what to do about military aggression until it was too late.

We had the situation in Ukraine where NATO did not intervene so although while I agree that these countries want defence in practice it isn't coming from NATO. Maybe for good reasons such as possible escalation to direct conflict with Russia.

 

[SilentRob]

I absolutely can't wait for Merkel to destroy this fucker.

 

[Lkr]

What's gonna happen to Trump's little ego (and hands) when he realizes Merkel is much smarter and more qualified than he is?

 

[Captain Tuttle]

What's gonna happen to Trump's little ego (and hands) when he realizes Merkel is much smarter and more qualified than he is?

What do you think she'll do?

 

[BoboBrazil]

This all part of Bannon's plan. He wants the world to burn to the ground.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

In direct opposition to the majority of his party and his defense secretary.

This administration is going to be such a cluster fuck.

The issue is that these fucks seem to be willing to fall in line. Even if it means destroying NATO.

They care about power and nothing else. Fuck the country as a whole. They got theirs.

 

[nephilimdj]

What's gonna happen to Trump's little ego (and hands) when he realizes Merkel is much smarter and more qualified than he is?

Maybe Trump will just point out the original goal of NATO

"to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down."

I mean USA is paying Albania 250 odd million a year to help it join EU, its not just NATO its funding

 

[iz.podpolja]

It's not about Russian tank forces rolling into Western Europe. It's about Russia having unchecked power in the former Soviet sphere of influence. Those countries are still very weak and susceptible to Russian exploitation. France, Germany, and the UK would be completely capable of defending themselves but they would not have a unified stance on how to handle Russian aggression in Eastern Europe. Do you know how the World Wars started? It started because nobody had consensus on what to do about military aggression until it was too late.

I'd say it's about the pesky EU in general - its existence means that Russia isn't the biggest player on the continent, even in its Eastern part. If it was dismantled Russia would have probably only Germany to speak with as equals, with the rest of countries, especially in the east, being susceptible to any form of pressure - this is so much less costly then a war (which serves mostly as means of boosting Putin's popularity at home IMO).
Reasonably, the long term goals in international politics for Russia probably are: creation of a divided, nationalistic (or otherwise conflicted) Europe + inward-looking isolationistic USA. Only then can a country with a relatively small economy & population exert enough influence to play in the "big league".