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Trump Fires James Comey

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M

MikeyB

Member
You guys keep dicking around with your definitions and process. Regardless of how this turns put, the Russians (if they had the influence in this election that is alleged) struck you a fatal blow:
- your electorate is divided
- your democracy seems to result in impotent policymaking (e.g., shutting down government)
- your democratic institutions and faith in them are weakening

I wish there was something I could do to help. This stumble, even if it doesn't lead to a face plant, is going to make the world a much more unstable place.
 
L

Lorcain

Member
I'm surprised that there are people in this thread trying to argue that "laughing up sleeves" is an everyday expression that normal people use. I've never heard anyone use that expression in my entire life, or read it in a book, or seen it used in a movie. Before today if I tried to use that expression at home, at work, or with my friends they would look at me like I had lost it.

The fact that he used an older expression that hardly anybody uses in his meltdown tweet makes it a helluva lot funnier.
 
P

Pop-O-Matic

Banned
MikeyB said:
You guys keep dicking around with your definitions and process. Regardless of how this turns put, the Russians (if they had the influence in this election that is alleged) struck you a fatal blow:
- your electorate is divided
- your democracy seems to result in impotent policymaking (e.g., shutting down government)
- your democratic institutions and faith in them are weakening.
Click to expand...

That was all true LONG before the Russians got involved.
 
B

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
the gross incompetence of the trump administration is a sight to behold. sane democrats and independents would be wise to hang him like the tangerine albatross he ultimately is around the necks of republicans who are enabling him. burn. them. down.
 
A

Arrogant Bastard

Banned
MikeyB said:
You guys keep dicking around with your definitions and process. Regardless of how this turns put, the Russians (if they had the influence in this election that is alleged) struck you a fatal blow:
- your electorate is divided
- your democracy seems to result in impotent policymaking (e.g., shutting down government)
- your democratic institutions and faith in them are weakening
Click to expand...

No offense, all of that was 100% true before Russia.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
MikeyB said:
You guys keep dicking around with your definitions and process. Regardless of how this turns put, the Russians (if they had the influence in this election that is alleged) struck you a fatal blow:
- your electorate is divided
- your democracy seems to result in impotent policymaking (e.g., shutting down government)
- your democratic institutions and faith in them are weakening

I wish there was something I could do to help. This stumble, even if it doesn't lead to a face plant, is going to make the world a much more unstable place.
Click to expand...

Absolutely none of this is new unless you suddenly started paying attention to U.S. politics in the last year.
 
B

bgbball31

Member
pigeon said:
Okay, we're posting stuff from alt-right publications now.

The arguments being made here:

a) Why did racists vote for FDR? The answer, of course, is that FDR made no effort to improve the plight of people of color or end Jim Crow in the south.
b) Why did racists vote for the GOP when the GOP wasn't really racist? CHECKMATE LIBERALS. This is textbook begging the question.
c) Why did the GOP win college-educated white voters in the South? Presumably because they were...racist?
Click to expand...

I actually didn't know it was from an Alt-right source, so thanks for that info. I did some looking into Claremont after I was linked it and didn't see anything like that. My mistake.
 
B

Biske

Member
Lorcain said:
I'm surprised that there are people in this thread trying to argue that "laughing up sleeves" is an everyday expression that normal people use. I've never heard anyone use that expression in my entire life, or read it in a book, or seen it used in a movie. Before today if I tried to use that expression at home, at work, or with my friends they would look at me like I had lost it.

The fact that he used an older expression that hardly anybody uses in his meltdown tweet makes it a helluva lot funnier.
Click to expand...

Seriously. Never heard this said ever. Not once.

Laughing it up. Laughing all the way to the bank etc.

Sleeves? Naaah old man
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
bgbball31 said:
I read this the other day and it seems to be a reasonable explanation other than just "racism!" Is this wrong?

http://www.claremont.org/crb/article/the-myth-of-the-racist-republicans/
Click to expand...

I don't really agree with some of his extremely, from my perspective, "privileged" conclusions. I mean he says this:

And from the 1950s on, virtually all national and local GOP candidates tried to craft policies and messages that could compete for the votes of some pretty unsavory characters. This record is incontestable. It is also not much of a story—that a party acted expediently in an often nasty political context.
Click to expand...

And yet he can assert this?

It is not at all clear that the GOP's policy positions are sugar-coated racist appeals.
Click to expand...

and this:

Let's start with policies. Like many others, Carter and the Black brothers argue that the GOP appealed to Southern racism not explicitly but through "coded" racial appeals. Carter is representative of many when he says that Wallace's racialism can be seen, varying in style but not substance, in "Goldwater's vote against the Civil Rights Bill of 1964, in Richard Nixon's subtle manipulation of the busing issue, in Ronald Reagan's genial demolition of affirmative action, in George Bush's use of the Willie Horton ads, and in Newt Gingrich's demonization of welfare mothers."

The problem here is that Wallace's segregationism was obviously racist, but these other positions are not obviously racist.
Click to expand...

So ultimately, it's up to you whether you believe those policies to be racially biased or motivated. I personally think there is no doubt they are, while white people who believe in these policies and vote for them believe they aren't, just like Trump voters don't think their immigration policies, or Sessions clamping down on drug offenses, are racist policies.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Arrogant Bastard said:
He literally said that?
Click to expand...

Here's the quote from Trump:

He [Rosenstein] made a recommendation, he’s highly respected, very good guy, very smart guy. The Democrats like him, the Republicans like him. He made a recommendation. But regardless of [the] recommendation, I was going to fire Comey. Knowing there was no good time do it!

And in fact when I decided to just do it I said to myself, I said, “You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made up story, it’s an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should’ve won.”
Click to expand...

Here's his press secretary today:

C_k08tvXkAImVHj.jpg
 
M

mazillion

Member
Lorcain said:
I'm surprised that there are people in this thread trying to argue that "laughing up sleeves" is an everyday expression that normal people use. I've never heard anyone use that expression in my entire life, or read it in a book, or seen it used in a movie. Before today if I tried to use that expression at home, at work, or with my friends they would look at me like I had lost it.

The fact that he used an older expression that hardly anybody uses in his meltdown tweet makes it a helluva lot funnier.
Click to expand...

He's 70 years old, old people use old expressions. This is hardly something worth dwelling on.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
MikeyB said:
You guys keep dicking around with your definitions and process. Regardless of how this turns put, the Russians (if they had the influence in this election that is alleged) struck you a fatal blow:
- your electorate is divided
- your democracy seems to result in impotent policymaking (e.g., shutting down government)
- your democratic institutions and faith in them are weakening

I wish there was something I could do to help. This stumble, even if it doesn't lead to a face plant, is going to make the world a much more unstable place.
Click to expand...

There are two distinct aspects to this whole thing:

Did Trump and friends collude with Russia?
What did this collusion actually achieve?

Hopefully Trump is found guilty and thrown out, Americans learn a lesson and the world is a better place etc. But given nothing will probably be learned, is that the best outcome?

Practically, what did the Russian's actually do? At best they helped convince absolute idiots to vote in one direction through propaganda, fake news, gifs on the internet etc. This is not something you would shake your fist at and cry "those Russians outsmarted us, curses!" Basically anything they did is only exploiting the idiocy that already exists in the US. This has nothing to do with Russia. If anything Russia gets all this madness without lifting a finger.

Long term it is better to accept that Russia didn't influence the election at all even if Trump is a traitor. Idiocy influenced the election fuelled by fox news and religious fundamentalism. This is what needs to be really fixed because otherwise the country is still fair game to anyone.
 
M

MikeyB

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
Absolutely none of this is new unless you suddenly started paying attention to U.S. politics in the last year.
Click to expand...

It's one thing for those paying attention to your life to know that you are cheating on your significant other and another to have it widely broadcast in mass media.
 
A

Arrogant Bastard

Banned
pigeon said:
I genuinely don't see how. Trump literally says "I want this investigation to end, so I fired Comey." What else could he possibly say?
Click to expand...

louiedog said:
yeah
Click to expand...

Recounting his decision to dismiss Comey, Trump told NBC News, ”In fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said, ‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made up story, it's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won.'"
Click to expand...

Yah those are literally the same comment. There is a massive difference between the two.

Socreges said:
Pedantic would have been a better choice of words.
Click to expand...

It isn't even pedantic, they are completely fucking different. One has unequivocally zero room to weasel out of it, which Trump has done a thousand times. The other leaves massive room to do so.
 
J

jellies_two

Member
Arrogant Bastard said:
He literally said that?
Click to expand...
THe whole transcript is a mess he is a raving lunatic.
However the money shot is when he says

"In fact when i decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said fhis Russia thing with trump and russia is a made-up story"

The fact this stands alone inside the mess that was his conversation is as close as anyone will get that the logic was that if he fires Comey - no matter the recommendation - it will muck with the " trump Russia thing ".
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Arrogant Bastard said:
It isn't even pedantic, they are completely fucking different. One has unequivocally zero room to weasel out of it, which Trump has done a thousand times. The other leaves massive room to do so.
Click to expand...
True. The press secretary's comment is not so loose
"We want this to come to its conclusion...and we think that we've actually, by removing Director Comey, taken steps to make that happen"
Click to expand...
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
In a Private Dinner, Trump Demanded Loyalty. Comey Demurred.
WASHINGTON — Only seven days after Donald J. Trump was sworn in as president, James B. Comey has told associates, the F.B.I. director was summoned to the White House for a one-on-one dinner with the new commander in chief.

The conversation that night in January, Mr. Comey now believes, was a harbinger of his downfall this week as head of the F.B.I., according to two people who have heard his account of the dinner.

As they ate, the president and Mr. Comey made small talk about the election and the crowd sizes at Mr. Trump’s rallies. The president then turned the conversation to whether Mr. Comey would pledge his loyalty to him.

Mr. Comey declined to make that pledge. Instead, Mr. Comey has recounted to others, he told Mr. Trump that he would always be honest with him, but that he was not “reliable” in the conventional political sense.

The White House on Wednesday said this account is not correct. And Mr. Trump, in an interview on Thursday with NBC, described a far different dinner conversation with Mr. Comey in which the director asked to have the meeting and the question of loyalty never came up. It was not clear whether he was talking about the same meal, but they are believed to have had only one dinner together.

By Mr. Comey’s account, his answer to Mr. Trump’s initial question apparently did not satisfy the president, the associates said. Later in the dinner, Mr. Trump again said to Mr. Comey that he needed his loyalty.

Mr. Comey again replied that he would give him “honesty” and did not pledge his loyalty, according to the account of the conversation.

But Mr. Trump pressed him on whether it would be “honest loyalty.”

Throughout his career, Mr. Trump has made loyalty from the people who worked for him a key priority, often discharging employees he considered insufficiently reliable.
Click to expand...

Mr. Comey described details of his refusal to pledge his loyalty to Mr. Trump to several people close to him on the condition that they not discuss it publicly while he was F.B.I. director. But now that Mr. Comey has been fired, they felt free to discuss it on the condition of anonymity.

A White House spokeswoman on Thursday disputed the description of the dinner by Mr. Comey’s associates.

“We don’t believe this to be an accurate account,” said Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the deputy press secretary. “The integrity of our law enforcement agencies and their leadership is of the utmost importance to President Trump. He would never even suggest the expectation of personal loyalty, only loyalty to our country and its great people.”
Click to expand...

my favorite part of this is

Comey: "So... those crowds sure were huge. Also I got your electoral map in the mail, truly amazing."
Trump: "Let's cut the bullshit."

Appeal to ego didn't work :^[
 
A

Arrogant Bastard

Banned
More_Badass said:
True. The press secretary's comment is not so loose
Click to expand...

Agreed 100%, I wish Trump would have made that comment. I fully agree that he did it to obstruct the investigation, everyone knows that. I'm just saying he is such a dumbshit when it comes to talking and making a point that it allows him so much room to move out of it.

I desperately want to be wrong, I want this to be the thing that pushes it all forward. I just don't think it will happen. Oh golly jee guys, Trump don't talk so good.
 
T

Tovarisc

Member
In a Private Dinner, Trump Demanded Loyalty. Comey Demurred.

The conversation that night in January, Mr. Comey now believes, was a harbinger of his downfall this week as head of the F.B.I., according to two people who have heard his account of the dinner.

As they ate, the president and Mr. Comey made small talk about the election and the crowd sizes at Mr. Trump's rallies. The president then turned the conversation to whether Mr. Comey would pledge his loyalty to him.

Mr. Comey declined to make that pledge. Instead, Mr. Comey has recounted to others, he told Mr. Trump that he would always be honest with him, but that he was not ”reliable" in the conventional political sense.

The White House on Wednesday said this account is not correct. And Mr. Trump, in an interview on Thursday with NBC, described a far different dinner conversation with Mr. Comey in which the director asked to have the meeting and the question of loyalty never came up. It was not clear whether he was talking about the same meal, but they are believed to have had only one dinner together.

By Mr. Comey's account, his answer to Mr. Trump's initial question apparently did not satisfy the president, the associates said. Later in the dinner, Mr. Trump again said to Mr. Comey that he needed his loyalty.

Mr. Comey again replied that he would give him ”honesty" and did not pledge his loyalty, according to the account of the conversation.

But Mr. Trump pressed him on whether it would be ”honest loyalty."

”You will have that," Mr. Comey told his associates that he responded.

....

Mr. Comey described details of his refusal to pledge his loyalty to Mr. Trump to several people close to him on the condition that they not discuss it publicly while he was F.B.I. director. But now that Mr. Comey has been fired, they felt free to discuss it on the condition of anonymity.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/us/politics/trump-comey-firing.html

Edit: I got Spoiled
 
smokeymicpot

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
In a Private Dinner, Trump Demanded Loyalty. Comey Demurred.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/us/politics/trump-comey-firing.html

As they ate, the president and Mr. Comey made small talk about the election and the crowd sizes at Mr. Trump's rallies. The president then turned the conversation to whether Mr. Comey would pledge his loyalty to him.

Mr. Comey declined to make that pledge. Instead, Mr. Comey has recounted to others, he told Mr. Trump that he would always be honest with him, but that he was not ”reliable" in the conventional political sense.


The White House on Wednesday said this account is not correct. And Mr. Trump, in an interview on Thursday with NBC, described a far different dinner conversation with Mr. Comey in which the director asked to have the meeting and the question of loyalty never came up. It was not clear whether he was talking about the same meal, but they are believed to have had only one dinner together.

Mr. Trump had met Mr. Comey for the first time in January, during the transition, when, along with the intelligence chiefs, the F.B.I. director presented him with evidence of that intervention. Mr. Comey was tasked by his fellow intelligence directors to also pull Mr. Trump aside and inform him about a secret dossier suggesting that Russia may have collected compromising information about him.

The dinner, at which the conversation Mr. Comey related took place, was on Jan. 27, a month later.

Mr. Comey's associates said that the new president requested the dinner he described, and said that he was wary about attending because he did not want to appear too chummy with Mr. Trump, especially amid the Russia investigation. But Mr. Comey went because he did not believe he could turn down a meeting with the new president.

During the meal, according to the account of the two associates, Mr. Comey tried to explain to Mr. Trump how he saw his role as F.B.I. director. Mr. Comey told Mr. Trump that the country would be best served by an independent F.B.I. and Justice Department.
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
So Trump says it was okay to fire Comey because 1) Trump maintains that Comey told him three times that he was not under investigation, and 2) that the Trump-Russia connection is a "made up story."

That's... not great. Trump just unilaterally declared he is not under investigation, and that the subject of the investigation didn't even take place. Then he fired the guy investigating him for his connections to Russia...
 
Z

Zolo

Member
“We don’t believe this to be an accurate account,” said Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the deputy press secretary. “The integrity of our law enforcement agencies and their leadership is of the utmost importance to President Trump. He would never even suggest the expectation of personal loyalty, only loyalty to our country and its great people.”
Click to expand...

.......I feel there's some other statement to dispute this somewhere.
 
K

King Tubby

Member
Nafai1123 said:
So ultimately, it's up to you whether you believe those policies to be racially biased or motivated. I personally think there is no doubt they are, while white people who believe in these policies and vote for them believe they aren't, just like Trump voters don't think their immigration policies, or Sessions clamping down on drug offenses, are racist policies.
Click to expand...

Those other positions not being "obviously" racist is basically the southern strategy and dog whistle politics in a nutshell.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Tovarisc said:
In a Private Dinner, Trump Demanded Loyalty. Comey Demurred.

The conversation that night in January, Mr. Comey now believes, was a harbinger of his downfall this week as head of the F.B.I., according to two people who have heard his account of the dinner.

As they ate, the president and Mr. Comey made small talk about the election and the crowd sizes at Mr. Trump’s rallies. The president then turned the conversation to whether Mr. Comey would pledge his loyalty to him.

Mr. Comey declined to make that pledge. Instead, Mr. Comey has recounted to others, he told Mr. Trump that he would always be honest with him, but that he was not “reliable” in the conventional political sense.

The White House on Wednesday said this account is not correct. And Mr. Trump, in an interview on Thursday with NBC, described a far different dinner conversation with Mr. Comey in which the director asked to have the meeting and the question of loyalty never came up. It was not clear whether he was talking about the same meal, but they are believed to have had only one dinner together.

By Mr. Comey’s account, his answer to Mr. Trump’s initial question apparently did not satisfy the president, the associates said. Later in the dinner, Mr. Trump again said to Mr. Comey that he needed his loyalty.

Mr. Comey again replied that he would give him “honesty” and did not pledge his loyalty, according to the account of the conversation.

But Mr. Trump pressed him on whether it would be “honest loyalty.”

“You will have that,” Mr. Comey told his associates that he responded.

....

Mr. Comey described details of his refusal to pledge his loyalty to Mr. Trump to several people close to him on the condition that they not discuss it publicly while he was F.B.I. director. But now that Mr. Comey has been fired, they felt free to discuss it on the condition of anonymity.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/us/politics/trump-comey-firing.html

Edit: I got Spoiled
Click to expand...

slemysword_optim.gif
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
MikeyB said:
It's one thing for those paying attention to your life to know that you are cheating on your significant other and another to have it widely broadcast in mass media.
Click to expand...

The mass media has covered politics heavily forever. I mean, I understand that some of you are too young to remember the Clinton and Bush years, but trust me, the current state of U.S. politics is not significantly different than it was then. Trump is definitely the most bizarre POTUS we've ever had, but the politics haven't changed.
 
J

jellies_two

Member
Dr.Acula said:
So Trump says it was okay to fire Comey because 1) Trump maintains that Comey told him three times that he was not under investigation, and 2) that the Trump-Russia connection is a "made up story."

That's... not great. Trump just unilaterally declared he is not under investigation, and that the subject of the investigation didn't even take place. Then he fired the guy investigating him for his connections to Russia...
Click to expand...

If you read the transcript of the NBC train wreck he actually walks back the three times thing and inserts that he may have heard other people say that Comey said he wasn't under investigation. In other words he heard it on fox and friends.
 
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