It SHOULDN'T but it DOES, so the person in charge should be aware of that kind of thing, don't you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=409Pjtq7jzY
Trump says the US not bound by one china policy, using it as a bargaining chip
- Thread starter ZOONAMI
- Start date
- Status
It SHOULDN'T but it DOES, so the person in charge should be aware of that kind of thing, don't you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=409Pjtq7jzY
JonnyDBrit
Member
I'm more confused by it being a 'bargaining chip' in the presumption of a trade deal when like, doesn't the US already have a trade deal with China, based on this?
Lord Frieza
Member
I understand the moral aspect of this, but do we really think Trump is coming out this from a moral standpoint? Bruh, come on. And even if you think it's morally right, it is foolish not to think about the consequences of this.
PdotMichael
Banned
Makes me wonder if Trump can even point Taiwan on a world map.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
So I guess China will be going to England for it's relations with the 13 colonies.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
How very Trumpian of you.
So we just fall in line and continue with the facade? Because of what? Fear?
Hexa
Member
That's what was said about literally everything he did from the moment he declared himself running but he's still President.
At this point, I've stopped assuming cause and effect apply to Trump in any predictable way and am just hoping for the best.
Mighty Chin
Banned
As it stands right now Trump is clueless to what the day to day business of the President is. He's in for a rude awakening. As are we.
Metalingus5150
Member
The political culture of China is different than the US. For some people it's a simple conversation, for China it is something completely different. Given how powerful they are, it was extremely foolish for Trump to do what he did. No we're not arguing to not recognize Taiwan, but we're not the face of the nation.
TheLaughingStock
Member
It's not for business as a whole. But we know the kinds of people and firms that enrich themselves during international conflicts and financial crises.
Omegasquash
Member
All the "shouldn't" in the world doesn't matter one whit to China. It's one of their big deals, big enough to go to war over. Pissing them off isn't a good idea.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
China is happy to take the longer, more peaceful approach to reintegration with Taiwan like they are with Hong Kong, but if pushed they would be happy to force the issue, too, I'm sure.
These kind of comments are idiotic, but what else should we expect? He obviously idolizes Putin and "rules don't apply to me" strongmen in general. Openly questioning the sovereignty of other nations is just part of the fun for him, I guess.
And all of those conspiracy nuts thought he would be the better candidate to not bring on a World War III.
These kind of comments are idiotic, but what else should we expect? He obviously idolizes Putin and "rules don't apply to me" strongmen in general. Openly questioning the sovereignty of other nations is just part of the fun for him, I guess.
And all of those conspiracy nuts thought he would be the better candidate to not bring on a World War III.
You're implying that he knows what the TPP does. In his mind, its "crooked Hillary's NAFTA 2.0".
Atom Heart Mother
Banned
Yeah, I know. I just want something about it to happen. Maybe other countries will start reversing it.
Lord have mercy
They only see one color, and it's not orange, black, or white.
Ultimately, he's chosen a very, very friendly cabinet so I'm assuming they're expecting things to be quite nice under a Trump administration.
It is interesting that we're holding Trump to the same standard as some random forum denizen.
PdotMichael
Banned
It does because the USA accepted People's Republic of China as only China and not Republic of China.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Other Countries aren't gonna play these stupid fucking games, unless other countries get their very own imbecile-elect.
chillybright
Banned
I should note that I believe that Taiwan should be an independent nation recognised by the international community, instead of the current mess where both claim to hold sovereignty over the entirety of China (unless both sides can come to a mutually acceptable agreement). That said, Trump's bravado strikes me more as one of the first rounds of what is looking to be a multiyear pissing match with the People's Republic. Given the current tension over sovereignty in the South China sea, and the potential for more if South Korea and Japan are indeed encouraged / pushed to upscale their own defense apparatuses, I'd rather see some efforts towards de-escalation.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
They aren't a foreign nation that the US or the People's Republic of China recognize.
Remember that Taiwan still officially subscribes to the "One China" policy just like the PRC, except that in their version, they are the rightful government of all of China.
Pretty much, both claim to be the rightful rulers of all of China and won't officially budge. The United States chose long ago which one it agrees with. To officially recognize one is to deny the other, so it's really just not something the president of a nation can hedge their bets on.
In light of all that, I think China's response was rather measured.
Taiwan doesn't consider itself independent, it considers itself the rightful China.
As many have said before, this is one of those things that triggers even ordinary mainland chinese people.
You completely missed the point, and judging by your initial post I am not surprised.
Lol if you think China can conventionally capture Taiwan in a day. They aren't considered a sort of unsinkable aircraft carrier because they can easily fall. Unlike China, Taiwan for the past 30+ years has been purely defense minded. Unless China plans on all out war in which they lose thousands and thousands of military personnel, Taiwan will hold off China long enough for US support. Plus if China wants to use missiles, Taiwan will counter with their own and there are more Chinese casualties near their coastline.
When will people realize China is a paper tiger still in terms of military. They are not the US, they are not even Russia.
PdotMichael
Banned
I would bet some money before anything happens. Taiwan will disassociate itself from Trump pretty fast. Playing the tough man is easy if there is the entire Pacific between one and the place of interest.
Even Taiwan considers an invasion of China as not stoppable.
I wouldn't trying to go that route. Even if you love your China is a paper tiger posts.
Even Taiwan considers an invasion of China as not stoppable.
I wouldn't trying to go that route. Even if you love your China is a paper tiger posts.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Wrong thread.
chillybright
Banned
And rightfully so.
An independent Taiwan not only means tremendous embarrassment for a totalitarian ruling party, it also geo-politically means another US ally, and potentially US military forces, would be on the close border of China. Both are absolutely unacceptable for CCP and Chinese citizens.
Tsai and her party, as well as over half of Taiwanese citizens going full celebration mode since the call indicates otherwise.
onadesertedisland
Member
Yeah, this is now no longer just fucking over citizens, it's endangering the world. The hissy fit middle-America threw is so fucking dangerous.
exmachina64
Banned
Is this a trick question?
Peace for the region. Its easy to act all macho when you are not in the frontline of a possible conflict.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Will the US risk war over Taiwan?
In the space of a day though? Please. Like I said, their entire arms purchases and military doctrine for almost 30+ years has been defense of the island and prevention of invasion until US forces arrive. They will not fall as quick as you think.
Also, it is crazy how so many have such a hatred for Trump, they prefer China and the unreasonableness of their demands for the past 40 years and their actions. China is not a rational state actor. This is still a government that tortures people like Falun Gong, quashes dissent with secret police who take away people in the night and their family, who have issues with almost every single neighbor, are literally stealing land in the south china sea to build military installations, they destroyed a satellite in space causing more space debris in one event than the last 20 years of Russian and US space launches just to show they could, they as a nation manipulate currency to decrease the cost of their exports and flood nations with their goods causing millions of jobs to suffer, they control media through extensive use of propaganda etc.
The fact that this rattles China so much should tell you how rational they also are. Fuck Donald Trump, he is a clown and a bad businessman. But he is doing exactly what he said he would. Rankle China. The fact that they get rankled should make China worry. In the world, the US is still the unquestioned economic and military power.
They are legally bound to do so. The question would be the same for NATO nations. Would the US risk war for Poland if Russia invades. If the US won't or doesn't, than all they have ever said of defense of allies, democracy, will go out the window if they allow communist china to invade Taiwan. The US would not prefer it. The world would not prefer war. But if it happens, it happens and then China will realize do they want to go to war with the US for Taiwan? Also you have to ask, will Taiwan risk what they have for war with China.
PdotMichael
Banned
The better question would be will Taiwan risk a war over Taiwan?
Trump's Asia ambitions can backfire in several different ways.
CrocMother
Banned
It's not just war, it's World War 3
PdotMichael
Banned
The statement was pretty clear. Without the USA and full backup the island of Taiwan can't be defended by the own forces.
And the statement is already several years old - the gap between China's capacities and Taiwan's only got bigger.
It's a combination of internet dickwaving and naivity to argue that the USA would go to war and destroy China.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Ah yes it looks like the "simple phone call" was a horrible idea
Our waters? Lol. It's the South China Sea. They aren't flying planes down the California coast. Meanwhile we have a naval fleet in the region, just flew a sortie of bombers over Korea, and have b1 and b2 bombers on Guam.
The Chinese would have to move a naval fleet close to Hawaii for it to even be near the same level of cross continental military influence. And if they did that we would undoubtedly wipe out their fleet.
And he's just fragile enough to:
A) Double down
B) Explain that it was his plan all along
C) Continue to be willfully ignorant of the intricacies of foreign policy.
His brain is the best brain, with the best words, and he's intelligent enough! Leave him alone, beta-libcucks.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
D)all of the above
He will double down saying it was his idea all along while continuing his ignorance
Dreamgazer
Member
The consistent estimate over the past 15 years or so is that if Taiwan and China was to go to war, then Taiwan would probably be able to hold off China for approximately a week.
Feng Shih-Kuan (Taiwan's current Minster of National Defense)'s report to the TW congress in September 2016, puts it at "more than a week." While a week is certainly longer than a day - that still isn't much in terms of how most internal conflict goes.
Taiwan being purely defense minded also don't mean much when all they can do is purchase overpriced 10+/15+ year old fighter jets from the US/French. If China is a paper tiger in terms of military firepower (3rd overall), then Taiwan is pretty much a speck of dust. Although it's true that neither side needs to see the bloodshed....
That being said, China wouldn't even need to resort to military means. They can just continue their current practice of:
- Discouraging Tourism to Taiwan so that the overzealous tourism/hotel industry goes to shit.
- Threaten Taiwanese businesses in China to pick sides or ditch their allegiance.
- Reject farm/fishery (east coast) imports so that Taiwan has to scramble for trade deals with Japan -> political debates over whether or not to allow import of food from Fukushima region for trade deal.
- Reduce Taiwan's dwindling foreign alliances even further through economic pressure.
Taiwan is in a rough spot with a DPP government already, they really don't need Trump add more fire to the flame.
(Unless Trump is open to some massive trade deals with Taiwan...)
capitalCORN
Member
OMFG Did some of you asshats forget how China operates? Or how much China is already grafted to the west? This is a fucking no win situation. Scratch that. If China overtakes Taiwan, what's the west going to do realistically? SANCTIONS?!?!
Tax cuts for businesses and citizens, infrastructure plan(commodities jumped because materials will be used for the projects, etc), and deregulation are now all built into stock prices as investors are bullish on their likelihoods of implementation given the repub controlled government. Bond yields are affected as well. Basically a little bubble that is contingent on those things coming to pass.
It's clever, I'll give him that. Of course the irony is while many nations have been done in over pride, Trump is perhaps more vulnerable to it than anyone. I don't think China has reasonable choices here, the most they can do is overreact with trade war or whatever but then they're just the global bad-guys because nobody else cares about their complex with Taiwan the way they do. It's entirely a vulnerability that will get exploited.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's quite the opposite.
Trump has already played all of his cards. Going further means to tank the economy.
- Status