Trump says the US not bound by one china policy, using it as a bargaining chip
- Thread starter ZOONAMI
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China don't care.
Right, it's a judo style technique. They'd play into his hands via overreaction, he doesn't waste anything they look really bad. Trump wins. Whether or not he'll also tank the economy is another thing entirely because he has several ways to do that and China loses then too because they are more or less grafted to the US.
It's not clever at all on trumps end because of the economic repercussions if a full on trade war develops.
China holds the cards and doesn't actually have to do anything re Taiwan other than say fuck you to the US. That will of course tank their economy as well, but Taiwan is such an issue they would sacrifice GDP to have it remain their territory.
If trump goes much further and officially recognized Taiwan as independent, Taiwan is such an issue that China would go to war over it, saying fuck our international reputation, etc. Taiwan is such a matter of face that losing it blanks their legimatacy on the mainland immediately, while sinking GDP and a negative international reaction at least buys them some time.
I don't know that anyone realizes how fragile the CCP believes itself to be, and potentially actually is. A full scale civil war in china would be about the most devastating thing that could happen to the world, outside of a ww3 involving several nations and/or US vs China.
And if any of this hypothetical nightmare scenario happens, history will blame Trump as it would be a deafening failure of foreign policy and a complete lack of understanding about the delicate nature of the status quo surrounding one china.
PdotMichael
Banned
What kind of spin is that?
old
Member
Ah the internet expert. Tell me how geopolitics work oh wise internet intellect. Did you get your degree from Wikipedia U.?
I agree. It's honestly a brilliant way to begin negotiations with China. It's a total sore spot for them. Any discussion happening on the world stage over Taiwan is going to be anti-China net. The longer and more prolonged the discussion is, the more China will lose.
old
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Yes, you've just met one. Hi.
It's amazing how so many people kind of see Trump as "the new sheriff in town", ready to get them outlaws in order.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's naive to think that anyone would side with Trump in such a crucial question - ready to tank their economies. It would be another Ukraine for the USA.
Well where to start.
"Good. Smart move. Make earn their shit. No more freebies. No more doormat USA."
"Make earn their shit" - Seriously, can't even find the word to insert there? And who are you referring to? China? Taiwan? In fact it doesn't matter because no one is earning shit. This is how the US (and the world) deals with the PRC and the ROC and the basis of normalized and as tense free relations as possible.
"No more freebies" - WTF are you going on about.
"No more doormat USA" - This isn't somehow about the US being a doormat you fool. No one is "walking over" the US. This is about who the US sees as the legitimate government of China. Two sides claim they are the rightful leaders of China/Taiwain. The relations that have been built up since the 70's when China started opening up to the west is dependent on who the US backs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-China_policy
With your ignorance on the topic I would go to your school and ask for your money back.
Hes using the same tactic every other "strongman" politician has ever used, and it's actually quite sad how many people can fall for it
Even if you support a hard stance against China, you have to realize that all this "strategy" was born of a blunder instead of a well prepared plan, how's that smart?
The other half of your post just reeks of insecurity, the idea that a country as powerful (and willing to use that power) as the US is acting like a "doormat" sounds like a personal projection. How much the weak hates weakness (real or imaginary).
SENPAIatLARGE
Banned
Feel free to put forth some effort convincing us you have any idea what you're talking about other than slogans you read from /r/the_donald.
Here is an example: I do not know what I am talking about on this matter. I rely on bits of insight from others I can do research on to enlighten myself.
Questions about the perception of legitimacy of the Chinese government is something I can start with.
I'm not sure how to start googling "No more doormat USA".
Do you realize that most people in china would consider that they have been a doormat basically for the last 300 hundred years or so? Even calling the 19th century a century of humiliation? Largely at the hands of western powers and Japan including the US during the 19th century?
The opium wars? The sino japanese war? The boxer rebellion? The invasion by Japan during WW2?
Did we earn Hawaii or Puerto Rico or Guam, etc etc etc? Taiwan when you think about is somewhat of a similar situation except with a much longer history and also deeply ingrained because of the civil war and Japan, and also a lot of people on the mainland having familial ties to Taiwan and vice versa.
The US is a doormat? You mean the only country in the world that unilaterally exerts it's military force on a global scale? China is done taking any shit, especially from a western power.
PdotMichael
Banned
The world is unfair to the USA.
Hierophant
Banned
we're all going to get a bit more unfair considering you just elected a literal buffoon
They wouldn't blame Trump because all he did was call it out. Only an idiot would think that's Trump's bad, the issue is not unlike how it is in the Middle East. Some very powerful people drew some really stupid borders and the situation is most likely not sustainable. Note that China is pretty much always under small-scale civil war on the Western edges, they do the North Korea thing where they forbid journalists and outsiders from going into Tibet and Xinjiang to keep it on the downlow and censor the hell out of any news coming from it but those places want independence as well. Trump is basically sticking a "Free Tibet" sticker on his car and China is losing it.
I don't think picking sides matters here - who is picking sides over what? Who are we talking about specifically? Trump wants to pressure China and he looks to be doing so in every way possible - including threatening the risk of stirring internal tensions.
PdotMichael
Banned
And Trump will only isolate himself if he does it.
Which nation in the world would support a trade war for no reason?
Thing is China will 100% not play fucking chicken with the issue of Taiwan. I do not understand how Trump's aides and advisers think that confronting China on the issue of Taiwan is somehow a good negotiating point or negotiating kickoff point. Does he not understand that Taiwan is a no go area? You can not pressure the Chinese using Taiwan.
old
Member
Haha yeahI met a lot of'em actually, but I'll remain doubtful you're one of them. At least going by your comments so far.
Oh no, Bufbaf doubts me. My day is ruined.
Blunder? Says who? You? Were you in the room? I gotta call CNN. I've met an inside source with direct relations to the Trump camp.
Ah, so to the internet "expert" resort to pointing out typos (long since corrected typos at that). I guess that's what you go with you don't have much else. Here I thought you were a geopolitical mastermind who could give me key insights. Much disappoint.
You guys just don't like Trump. So you don't like whatever he does. He could put a man on Mars and you'd argue it's a waste of money. I'll say good day here so I don't continue to hijack this thread.
Hierophant
Banned
if you decide to travel, get rid of any american flag patches and possible replace it with a canadian oneGoing to be interesting to see how Americans react to our country becoming extremely unpopular and hated throughout the world in the next 2 years.
Seeing the direction this country is going in it will probably be celebrated.
I think you have it backwards.
By making Trump's USA the boogeyman, China's government can utilize the situation to unify their innards and stomp out dissent. Especially in a time where their economy is finally slowing down, they have the opportunity to use a foreign enemy to mask internal troubles. It's not good for China in the long term, but Trump's a useful tool for consolidating power.
Hierophant
Banned
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeesh. Garbage posts.
Going to be tough to hide that passport though.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Except for a couple other hundred reasons and it's not a "just not like"
Back-In-Black
Banned
Eh, I hate Trump's gut and would gladly spit on his grave but his supposed "crazy" attitude towards Russia is too early to be called dumb. Ronald Reagan generated the same persona as being "crazy" with the Russians finally causing them to spend themselves into ruin and used his fear to negotiate deals prior hand with the Russians on nuclear arms control. If the Chinese perceive Trump as unstable and literally willing to turn the clock back on Taiwan, damn the consequences, then they just might be willing to concede on things such as trade.
We can't blast Trump for being a weak puppet of Russian and then also be upset that he is antagonizing China with such brazen moves.
EDIT:
Because China is a beacon of democracy and free speech that doesn't already stamp out all forms of dissent?
We can't blast Trump for being a weak puppet of Russian and then also be upset that he is antagonizing China with such brazen moves.
EDIT:
Because China is a beacon of democracy and free speech that doesn't already stamp out all forms of dissent?
Going to be interesting to see how Americans react to our country becoming extremely unpopular and hated throughout the world in the next 2 years.
Seeing the direction this country is going in it will probably be celebrated.
You don't actually think this is new? It basically cycles with the political parties at least in my life time. You are hitting an all time low though.
You don't seem to grasp the importance that positive relations with china has to the US economy and the importance of the one china policy to that. You're ignorant. You don't know what you're arguing or why other than "trump is right hur durr strong america". Go back to /r/the_donald and keep staying uninformed.
Hierophant
Banned
i was too young to be fully aware of the bush years and now I'm apparently living in the bush years 2.0
Unknown Soldier
Member
China gotta be shook at this point. We should park a carrier fleet in international waters and wave at the next Chinese bomber that flies overhead. They need reminding who has the deepwater Navy round these parts.
PdotMichael
Banned
and then?
Ignoring the fact that a carrier group would be plain outmatched by the Chinese forces in the region.
Nope. This is worse.
I think we were and always be unpopular with countries that we fucked over with our policies but this seems like we are moving into territory where we are just going to be generally hated even by our allies.
I can see us in the future telling people "Americans are not like what you see on the television, the people are actually really nice".
Unknown Soldier
Member
And then nothing. It's our fleet in international waters. It's for them to look at.
LMAO? China has no worldwide power projection. They know it and we know it.
PdotMichael
Banned
So you want to do something pointless.
okay...
And China has quite the incredible power projection in the South China Sea
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