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[Toparaman]

Source:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ng-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

Some key excerpts:

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database.

Trump signed the bill into law without a photo op or fanfare. The president welcomed cameras into the oval office Tuesday for the signing of other executive orders and bills. News that the president signed the bill was tucked at the bottom of a White House email alerting press to other legislation signed by the president.

Basically he tried to sneak the signing of this bill past the public's attention.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

why tho

 

[Sölf]

What could possibily go wrong?

 

[Jack The Nipper]

why tho

Republicans love guns.

For many gun collecting is thier number one hobby.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

why tho

Why not

 

[brian577]

I feel safer already!

 

[Moppeh]

Mental illness is a huge problem in this country and the only cure is a gun.

God Bless America.

Cryingeagle.jpg

 

[Chuck Norris]

Hasn't "mental health" been the entire scapegoat for Republican gun lovers after every school shooting?

 

[Macho Madness]

I think the 2nd amendment is trash but this regulation was also trash.

 

[Premium Quality]

Even if you are a pro-gun fanatic, I can't think of a reason why this would be a good thing.
People with mental health issues going on shooting sprees make your side look bad.

 

[Toparaman]

why tho

Guessing NRA lobbyists had a big role.

Drain the swamp.

He'll make America safe again.

Hasn't "mental health" been the entire scapegoat for Republican gun lovers after every school shooting?

Trump's own words from an Oct 2015 story:

Donald Trump, once a staunch supporter of background checks on gun purchasers, says the country should focus on the “mental illness problem” in the wake of the mass shooting last week at Umpqua Community College in Oregon that left 10 people dead.

“You're going to have problems no matter how good, no matter what kind of checks you do, you know, what kind of laws,” the Republican presidential contender said in an interview aired Sunday on NBC's “Meet the Press.” “Now, with that, I think mental health, we have to do better. We have to do a much better job with mental health.”

But remember kids, he can't be bought or sold.

 

[Gnome]

why tho

Action for actions sake, good ol hallmark of fascism. Also "when I hear talk of culture I reach for my gun" seems to be a growing sentiment in America.

 

[CyclopsRock]

why tho

Because it's a blanket ban that has little to do with one's capacity to safely operate a gun (for example, it bans some people with eating disorders from buying a gun).

 

[Capitan]

well he can get a gun then i guess

 

[TheWasTheJoke]

I think the 2nd amendment is trash but this regulation was also trash.

Why though?

Any potential harm of marginalisation will be far outweighed in lives saved

 

[Remmy2112]

Hasn't targeting mental illness been the Republican go-to scapegoat and deflection when talking about mass shooters? Like, every time there has been a mass shooting Republicans have for the last decade or longer almost always deflected the issue away from gun control to mental illnesses. Now Trump signs this? Urgh.

 

[BasicMath]

why tho

Reps claimed that it stripped people of due process.

I think it's similar to the "No fly, No buy" regulation that Dems were after. Where the government was allowed to restrict your basic rights without any kind of due process or you even knowing.

Feel free to correct me if I'm off.

 

[massoluk]

I wish Dem forced in a vote on prohibiting gun sale to mentally ill and terrorists. Put them on record.

 

[iamaustrian]

better arm kindergarten kids too. in case the next nutjob storms a playschool with an AK.

also mandatory bowing knifes and cal 22 for infants. just in case

seriously? WHY would anyone think:"Hey, that's a great idea!"?

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

People with mental health issues going on shooting sprees make your side look bad.

What is this actually implying? mentally ill people are more likely to go on shooting sprees?
that seems like its just adding fuel to the stigma that mental illness already carries

None of the articles that I can find show any kind of significant correlation between mental illness and crime, rather that its grossly misrepresented.

 

[Tk0n]

why tho

cant exclude a large part of your voting base from buying guns.

 

[Gnome]

better arm kindergarten kids too. in case the next nutjob storms a playschool with an AK.

also mandatory bowing knifes and cal 22 for infants. just in case

seriously? WHY would anyone think:"Hey, that's a great idea!"?

It's not enough to be a teacher in America, you have to be a cowboy too.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Why though?

Any potential harm of marginalisation will be far outweighed in lives saved

"It's for the greater good" isn't an excellent argument for stripping people of their rights though is it?

 

[Toparaman]

Because it's a blanket ban that has little to do with one's capacity to safely operate a gun (for example, it bans some people with eating disorders from buying a gun).

Would an eating disorder qualify someone for Social Security? Because otherwise I don't see how the original regulation would've applied to such a person.

Genuine non-rhetorical question by the way, since I don't know.

Edit:
This CNN article claims that it is indeed the case. Also apparently the ACLU opposed the regulation. But personally I think the regulation was fair. I would like to see stricter gun control applied to the larger population as well.

 

[SpaceCadetKeon]

So that makes...two bills he's signed so far? Nice to know the GOP's taking advantage of their control over all three branches.

 

[iamaustrian]

What is this actually implying? mentally ill people are more likely to go on shooting sprees?
that seems like its just adding fuel to the stigma that mental illness already carries

None of the articles that I can find show any kind of significant correlation between mental illness and crime, rather that its grossly misrepresented.

uhm, I don't know but people actually going on shooting sprees do not seem "mentally stable" to me...at all

 

[darkwing]

how would this not go wrong

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

This is what makes me a dual citizen so proud. I welcome the EU.
If I could, I would just emigrate to Spain and avoid this.

 

[Protome]

uhm, I don't know but people actually going on shooting sprees do not seem "mentally stable" to me...at all

Calling shooters mentally ill is just an excuse that has been used for years to avoid dealing with the fact that murdering people doesn't make you medically insane. You can be sane and also a monster.

All it successfully does is create even more of a stigma around those who have actual mental illnesses.

 

[Gnome]

What is this actually implying? mentally ill people are more likely to go on shooting sprees?
that seems like its just adding fuel to the stigma that mental illness already carries

None of the articles that I can find show any kind of significant correlation between mental illness and crime, rather that its grossly misrepresented.

The issue is probably one of undiagnosed cases because, well, I don't think mentally healthy people go on shooting sprees, the act itself is a pretty damming statement about ones mental health.

 

[Ri'Orius]

So, has anyone who fits these specific mental health criteria perpetrated a gun crime? Is there any indication that they're more dangerous with a firearm than the general population?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if guns were significantly harder to get. But it's entirely possible that this specific regulation is gun control's equivalent of the Muslim ban. Mentally ill people do terrible things, but there are plenty of innocent mentally ill people. If we're going to target a specific subset (analogous to a specific set of Muslim countries), I'd like to see some evidence we're targeting the right people.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

So, has anyone who fits these specific mental health criteria perpetrated a gun crime? Is there any indication that they're more dangerous with a firearm than the general population?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if guns were significantly harder to get. But it's entirely possible that this specific regulation is gun control's equivalent of the Muslim ban. Mentally ill people do terrible things, but there are plenty of innocent mentally ill people. If we're going to target a specific subset (analogous to a specific set of Muslim countries), I'd like to see some evidence we're targeting the right people.

Most likely to commit suicide is the key thing the Trump team is ignoring,
Guns contribute to suicide just as the opiod epidemic does to the US epidemic.

 

[Grazzt]

American psychos and their guns.

 

[Xe4]

Most likely to commit suicide is the key thing the Trump team is ignoring,

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. People who have mental health issues are more likely to attempt suicide, and gun usage tracks highly with successful suicide attempts.

More than anything else, this is going to cause people to hurt and kill themselves rather than anyone else.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

The issue is probably one of undiagnosed cases because, well, I don't think mentally healthy people go on shooting sprees, the act itself is a pretty damming statement about ones mental health.

I agree, they probably have some undiagnosed problems, which is how it gets to that point.
People who are getting treatment for a vast array of things not at all similar to Antisocial personality disorders being denied the same rights as everyone else does seem like it would cause issues.
Like I know people like to have guns in their house for 'self defense' and whatnot.

The problem is that "mental illness" is such an absolutely tremendous grouping of so many very different things that its just far too poorly defined to be a useful metric.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

.

 

[Bold One]

You Americans

 

[Gnome]

I agree, they probably have some undiagnosed problems, which is how it gets to that point.
People who are getting treatment for a vast array of things not at all similar to Antisocial personality disorders being denied the same rights as everyone else does seem like it would cause issues.
Like I know people like to have guns in their house for 'self defense' and whatnot.

The problem is that "mental illness" is such an absolutely tremendous grouping of so many very different things that its just far too poorly defined to be a useful metric.

Agreed, this is where language in policy really matters. Essentially, if we're going to levy restrictions at mental illness then it needs to specify what mental illness and be coupled with actual proof why it's needed. Not that I think it will actually solve the gun rights issue though. Better mental health checks are a good thing, but it's unfair to tie that fact to something as heinous as shooting sprees. And if someone going on a shooting spree is the first act an ill person decides to take that proves illness, then what good will legislation against mental illness do? Probably none.

 

[Hinchy]

All right! I've been struggling with depression and it's been getting worse. Now's my chance.

EDIT: I'm only half kidding. I have no plans on dying any time soon but the fact that if I snapped I could go out and get a gun and kill myself is frightening. It's within my capability and I've thought about it before.

EDIT 2: I wouldn't ever harm anyone else.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Would an eating disorder qualify someone for Social Security? Because otherwise I don't see how the original regulation would've applied to such a person.

Genuine non-rhetorical question by the way, since I don't know.

Edit:
This CNN article claims that it is indeed the case. Also apparently the ACLU opposed the regulation. But personally I think the regulation was fair. I would like to see stricter gun control applied to the larger population as well.

Surely the argument is to write bills that don't target those who have no problem - or, no more problems than anyone else - in safely operating a gun, rather than stripping people of their rights in an almost arbitrary way? Of course the ACLU supported repealing it - their mandate is basically to protect people's rights from the government.

 

[Toparaman]

All right! I've been struggling with depression and it's been getting worse. Now's my chance.

The regulation was to take effect on Jan 18. Basically it never actually took effect.

And please don't hurt anyone, including yourself.

 

[Transhuman]

 

[Hinchy]

And please don't hurt anyone, including yourself.

Yeah sorry I edited my post. And I'm trying my best. I'd never hurt anyone aside from myself, regardless.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

why tho

he's looking out for his supporters, the people with mental illnesses.

 

[YourMaster]

Edit:
This CNN article claims that it is indeed the case. Also apparently the ACLU opposed the regulation. But personally I think the regulation was fair. I would like to see stricter gun control applied to the larger population as well.

These two points don't have to go together. I think the proper point of view would be to be against targeting people with 'mental health issues' that do not make gun violence more likely, but be for stricter gun control for the general population as that strongly reduced gun deaths and criminals with guns.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

he's looking out for his supporters, the people with mental illnesses.

what the fuck?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

what the fuck?

Being a Trump supporter=mentally unstable. And they want guns.


This does seem akin to the whole "keep people on the no fly list from buying guns" thing.

 

[aussiedude08]

How long till a mentally unstable person commits a mass shooting.

This isnt going to end well. and Trump will try and claim its a non story if the person who commits a shooting is white.

 

[Aeriscloud]

why tho

He wants to buy a gun someday.

 

[Toparaman]

Yeah sorry I edited my post. And I'm trying my best. I'd never hurt anyone aside from myself, regardless.

Good to hear. Hang in there. I've been diagnosed with low-level depression myself, though thankfully never been suicidal.

Edit: I gotta hit the bed, so apologies if I don't post in this thread again. Mostly just wanted this news story to not fall under the radar.