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[Yoshi]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

 

[Ogodei]

So repeal and pull the plug on those in ICU?

Hospitals won't do that, but they will kick you out if you don't have insurance and are in stable condition, but absolutely need long-term treatment to not come back to the ER three weeks later. Only obligation is to stabilize you then out you go.

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

Mostly racism. There are a slice of libertarians and objectivists who are high on their own supply and think that cutting the government to next to nothing would lead to a new golden age, but most right-wing voters quite like social welfare, they just don't want welfare for "those people," whomever that may be.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

Because Trump lied to people, saying that they would have better, cheaper healthcare than Obamacare, and they believed it.

Kind of the same with the general R strategy on Obamacare. They are selling people on one thing, it's too expensive, we'll make it better, but are actually working on making it worse.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Wasn't it trump that wanted the idea of repeal and replace in the first place? I could be remembering it wrong. Anything for a win now.

 

[GodofWine]

He is really just going to screw over the people who supported him the strongest, the rural / poor americans.


Im so embarrased for this country.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

They don't want to pay higher taxes to help people they don't even know.
And they don't want higher taxes on the rich either, because they think they'll become rich any day now.

 

[Kevinroc]

Wasn't it trump that wanted the idea of repeal and replace in the first place? I could be remembering it wrong. Anything for a win now.

Republicans have been using "repeal and replace" as a slogan for a long time. Trump just said he would replace Obamacare with "something terrific" and "everybody" would be covered.

 

[timetokill]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

"Hey, you know that guy who we've demonized for 8 years straight now and, by the way, is a black Kenyan muslim who wants to force you to gay marry at the point of your own gun that he is going to take away from you? You know how his healthcare sucks because he sucks?"

"What if I told you I could give you the best healthcare that is also the most affordable healthcare ever? Also, by the way, I'm white and definitely not gay."

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-issue_politics

 

[David H Wong]

I have no idea why this is getting so much attention. A repeal without a replace would get about 15 votes in the senate (as one of the sources points out). It's only the hardest of the hardcore right who want that, no one else does. it's a non-starter.

You want the real story? They may have already arrived at a compromise:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...alth-care-bill-insurance-regulations-ted-cruz

From Ted Cruz, of all people. Rolls back some of the tax cuts for the rich, frees up more money for Medicaid and subsidies, but also gives insurance companies more freedom to offer bare bones plans AS LONG AS they offer at least one ACA-compliant one. It might be the best bill we're going to get out of this process.

 

[Yoshi]

Because Trump lied to people, saying that they would have better, cheaper healthcare than Obamacare, and they believed it.

Kind of the same with the general R strategy on Obamacare. They are selling people on one thing, it's too expensive, we'll make it better, but are actually working on making it worse.

Even to me, an outsider to US politics, it was almost immediately clear, that they were promising to make it cheaper by reducing the coverage (which, as far as I know, is questionable as is anyway), and on top of this, reducing subsidies, so who on earth would think this would do anything but harm?

 

[btrboyev]

I just love our President gets his ideas from cable news and not health care experts.

This guy and the Republican Party are the biggest threat to Americans and soon to be the world.

 

[kamineko]

I have no idea why this is getting so much attention. A repeal without a replace would get about 15 votes in the senate (as one of the sources points out).

As a matter of tradition, American citizens often discuss the public comments of the president.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I have no idea why this is getting so much attention. A repeal without a replace would get about 15 votes in the senate (as one of the sources points out). It's only the hardest of the hardcore right who want that, no one else does. it's a non-starter.

You want the real story? They may have already arrived at a compromise:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...alth-care-bill-insurance-regulations-ted-cruz

From Ted Cruz, of all people. Rolls back some of the tax cuts for the rich, frees up more money for Medicaid and subsidies, but also gives insurance companies more freedom to offer bare bones plans AS LONG AS they offer at least one ACA-compliant one. It might be the best bill we're going to get out of this process.

This doesn't really seem workable under reconciliation (as the article notes), nor does it address the issues people like Collins and Heller have, who want no cuts to Medicaid, and instead actually want more funds for Medicaid. It just decreases the cuts to Medicaid, there are still Medicaid cuts.

Also "may have already arrived at a compromise" isn't really what that article is saying at all. It's just a Ted Cruz suggestion that McConnell hasn't accepted yet, and possibly isn't even allowed to be attached to the bill. And Cruz himself hasn't even finished drafting it up. There hasn't been any debate on it, no other Nos have signed on to support it, and the CBO estimate is still going to be disastrous.

It's also a non-starter for Rand Paul

 

[Kenai]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

Pick one (or more?) of the below depending on the person in question.

1) "He won't repeal *my* health care, just the brown people/black people/illegals/welfare queens" ect

2) "He doesn't have a real chance, and no Bernie, so I'm just gonna not vote/vote 3rd party, that'll show em"

3) "Both sides are the same, Trump might be a white supremacist, sexual predator and one of the biggest Wall Street-style crooks you can imagine, but don't forget about Hillary's emails and Ben Ghazi"

4) "I'm pretty damn rich so I can afford gud health care either way and I could really use some more money from those tax cuts"

From what I can tell the main source of regret post election has been related to 1 when a lot of senators in red states realized it's going to be hard to blame their citizen's loss of health care on Obama or some other Dem when they control all 3 branches and are up for job loss in 2018. It's also the main reason why there hasn't been anything passed yet. 2 is mostly Dem/liberal fall in love with personality related, 3 is fake moderate/fake critical thinking related, 4 is Faux News and their cronies related.

The really big thing to keep in mind above most in this country than non Americans may not understand though is that Republicans infested a lot of church related stuff (or maybe visa versa) several decades ago and as a result a lot of things that shouldn't be up for debate at all like climate change and evolution and vaccines and what not suddenly become political issues when they have no business being so due to religious takes on the matter. Not to mention stuff like anti-gay marriage and racism and prejudice against non-Christian religions that are more global problems.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Even to me, an outsider to US politics, it was almost immediately clear, that they were promising to make it cheaper by reducing the coverage (which, as far as I know, is questionable as is anyway), and on top of this, reducing subsidies, so who on earth would think this would do anything but harm?

People just think it will never apply to them. "I'm not sick, I don't need insurance." Then when they get sick, they expect the government to bail them out. The core principal of Conservative ideology is a complete lack of empathy for any situation that does not currently affect you personally, followed by an immediate change of heart once it does. I mean, that and the fact that the GOP just flat-out lied to people about Obamacare being the sole reason healthcare costs are high to begin with and having a plan to make them cheaper and better (which any rational person could easily detect as bullshit). But the promise of more money in your pocket at the end of the day is a pretty big motivator; it's why we have millions of people playing the Powerball every week.

 

[GameAddict411]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

They see the ACA as a way for the poor to benefit from them the "rich." Most rich Republicans are not lunatics, they are just extremely selfish people who want to pay less taxes. As for the irrational types, they are usually uneducated poor people who support the GOP for Religious reasons. The way they oppose gay marriage, abortion, and support "Religious Freedom." I put it on quotation marks because it's not the true meaning behind the phrase. Religious Freedom for some of these people is to oppress other religions and make Christianity the religion of the country. In other words don't oppress my oppression. The GOP is also smart when they do the social welfare program cuts, but immediately point fingers on the left. They also relay on propaganda to poison and mislead people hence the new phrase fake news.

 

[Yoshi]

Pick one (or more?) of the below depending on the person in question.

1) "He won't repeal *my* health care, just the brown people/black people/illegals/welfare queens" ect

2) "He doesn't have a real chance, and no Bernie, so I'm just gonna not vote/vote 3rd party, that'll show em"

3) "Both sides are the same, Trump might be a white supremacist, sexual predator and one of the biggest Wall Street-style crooks you can imagine, but don't forget about Hillary's emails and Ben Ghazi"

4) "I'm pretty damn rich so I can afford gud health care either way and I could really use some more money from those tax cuts"

From what I can tell the main source of regret post election has been related to 1 when a lot of senators in red states realized it's going to be hard to blame their citizen's loss of health care on Obama or some other Dem when they control all 3 branches and are up for job loss in 2018. It's also the main reason why there hasn't been anything passed yet. 2 is mostly Dem/liberal fall in love with personality related, 3 is fake moderate/fake critical thinking related, 4 is Faux News and their cronies related

People just think it will never apply to them. "I'm not sick, I don't need insurance." Then when they get sick, they expect the government to bail them out. The core principal of Conservative ideology is a complete lack of empathy for any situation that does not currently affect you personally, followed by an immediate change of heart once it does. I mean, that and the fact that the GOP just flat-out lied to people about Obamacare being the sole reason healthcare costs are high to begin with and having a plan to make them cheaper and better (which any rational person could easily detect as bullshit). But the promise of more money in your pocket at the end of the day is a pretty big motivator; it's why we have millions of people playing the Powerball every week.

This is just a very depressing picture you paint . Greed, stupidity and egoism as driving forces for policies that may kill numerous people and put even more people into deep debts. I really hope the democrats find someone like Bernie next turn to ensure strong, tax-payed health ensurance and education for everyone.

 

[zeemumu]

Jump out of the plane now, fix your parachute on the way down.

 

[BigDug13]

Can they even do this? I thought the whole reason they could do it with 51 votes was because their healthcare adjustments would be considered a budget reconciliation? How can you straight repeal and NOT replace a healthcare plan through a budget reconciliation?

 

[bluehat9]

I wonder who Trump asked, "Can I fire senators?"

 

[Autodidact]

Can they even do this? I thought the whole reason they could do it with 51 votes was because their healthcare adjustments would be considered a budget reconciliation? How can you straight repeal and NOT replace a healthcare plan through a budget reconciliation?

A straight repeal will technically save money and could be passed under budget reconciliation.

A separate replacement would require 60 votes, however.

 

[BigDug13]

A straight repeal will technically save money and could be passed under budget reconciliation.

A separate replacement would require 60 votes, however.

Seems like a really bad idea because the replacement idea after a straight repeal will never get the votes needed because the Tea Party, establishment GOP, and Democrats will never compromise with each other.

 

[DarkKyo]

Seems like a really bad idea because the replacement idea after a straight repeal will never get the votes needed because the Tea Party, establishment GOP, and Democrats will never compromise with each other.

I mean, this is an obvious concern to anyone whose not an idiotic, hypocritical shill like those running our government.

 

[gspec]

They would need 60 for repeal.

 

[RaidenZR]

Because Trump lied to people, saying that they would have better, cheaper healthcare than Obamacare, and they believed it.

Kind of the same with the general R strategy on Obamacare. They are selling people on one thing, it's too expensive, we'll make it better, but are actually working on making it worse.

Not just this, but they're simultaneously starving out Obamacare so it has no trajectory BUT to get pricier and is guaranteed to fail the Americans who need it most. It's win-win for them. They get to keep blaming it while shoving forth their own shitty policies that you've been hearing about.

 

[Iolo]

This is just a very depressing picture you paint . Greed, stupidity and egoism as driving forces for policies that may kill numerous people and put even more people into deep debts. I really hope the democrats find someone like Bernie next turn to ensure strong, tax-payed health ensurance and education for everyone.

The misconception that one person, the president, has unlimited magical power to make things happen is why progressives turned on Obama after a while, why Trump voters chose Trump and why the Republican party still doesn't have a health care solution. You need the presidency, Congress and the courts, AND a unified party.

 

[Thatonemoor]

What would that even intel? Just getting rid of all the governments health care facilities and just letting the market run it? Do you want to crash the economy? Cause that's a good way to do it.

 

[Yoshi]

The misconception that one person, the president, has unlimited magical power to make things happen is why progressives turned on Obama after a while, why Trump voters chose Trump and why the Republican party still doesn't have a health care solution. You need the presidency, Congress and the courts, AND a unified party.

Well yes, of course you need those points as well, but the president is head of government, so the president's political position is a very important point.

 

[Autodidact]

Well yes, of course you need those points as well, but the president is head of government, so the president's political position is a very important point.

Not really. Celebrity culture has led to us to overestimate the importance of the president. He cannot pass legislation besides flimsy executive orders. True change, for better or worse, comes through Congress. Those elections should receive vastly more attention than the presidential one.

The president can be an aid - or a hindrance, in Trump's case - in selling the public on a particular piece of legislation, but again, that ability stems directly from our national tendency to perceive the president as a combination of rock star and monarch. Congress plays a much larger, though less flashy, role in shaping the country.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Is he trying to get impeached ?

 

[Kenai]

Well yes, of course you need those points as well, but the president is head of government, so the president's political position is a very important point.

Hilary and Bernie basically agreed on everything health care related outside of a few un-ironed details from what I could tell, and even after being humiliated by losing to Trump she has continued her humanitarian efforts. Reps were also depressingly successful with their 20+ year long smear campaign. There's also plenty of examples of politicians who may not personally believe in something but vote on/pass on it based on legality rather than personal views.

I'm a lot more hopeful about the odds of the next candidate considering a lot of what caused Hillary to lose won't be a factor this time around and Trump has some potentially historic unpopularity and the whole Russia scandal that will hopefully lead to handcuffs sooner rather than later, but I also don't know who is actually going to run yet so they could easily have unforeseen issues as well.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Wasn't it trump that wanted the idea of repeal and replace in the first place? I could be remembering it wrong. Anything for a win now.

Repeal and replace was around for the Romney campaign. It basically started when they reached a point where they need a straight repeal was no longer politically feasible.

 

[Steel]

I have no idea why this is getting so much attention. A repeal without a replace would get about 15 votes in the senate (as one of the sources points out). It's only the hardest of the hardcore right who want that, no one else does. it's a non-starter.

You want the real story? They may have already arrived at a compromise:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...alth-care-bill-insurance-regulations-ted-cruz

From Ted Cruz, of all people. Rolls back some of the tax cuts for the rich, frees up more money for Medicaid and subsidies, but also gives insurance companies more freedom to offer bare bones plans AS LONG AS they offer at least one ACA-compliant one. It might be the best bill we're going to get out of this process.

The moment the implications of the bill comes through in the CBO score, they will have lost the moderates.

And Rand Paul is never getting on board that train. There's no real story there. The real story is they're just derping along and have no idea what they're doing. Which is what this tweet shows.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Republicans have been using "repeal and replace" as a slogan for a long time. Trump just said he would replace Obamacare with "something terrific" and "everybody" would be covered.

Repeal and replace was around for the Romney campaign. It basically started when they reached a point where they need a straight repeal was no longer politically feasible.

Thanks for the info. What a mess.

 

[L Thammy]

Trump's only goal as president is to erase all traces he can that a black president ever happened, right? He has no other purpose, selfish or otherwise?

 

[alr1ght]

Trump's only goal as president is to erase all traces he can that a black president ever happened, right? He has no other purpose, selfish or otherwise?

pretty much, and to make loads of money.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/29/opinion/trumps-obama-obsession.html

 

[Shoeless]

He is really just going to screw over the people who supported him the strongest, the rural / poor americans.


Im so embarrased for this country.

The amazing part is, they will thank him for it. As long as they "win" against democrats, everything else is acceptable. The Republican need to be a winner, even at the cost of personal well being is pretty astounding.

 

[Socivol]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

The lunatics are white and racist. They would rather destroy the country than see brown people receive equity. Ironically the poorest and reddest states seem to benefit from the ACA the most so they are fucking themselves.

 

[.JayZii]

We don't have a plan to fix it, so let's just break it for now. We can probably get around to fixing it later.

The amazing part is, they will thank him for it. As long as they "win" against democrats, everything else is acceptable. The Republican need to be a winner, even at the cost of personal well being is pretty astounding.

I can see them explaining how much they're winning at their grandparent's preventable deathbed now.

 

[Shoeless]

We don't have a plan to fix it, so let's just break it for now. We can probably get around to fixing it later.

I can see them explaining how much they're winning at their grandparent's preventable deathbed now.

Well, if the grandparents are similarly racist, they probably won't mind. It'll be more like "Every cancerous cough I spit out is one more dead foreigner on the pile of bodies. USA, USA, USA!"

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

This country is being controlled by bigotry and propaganda. It's lost its goddamned mind.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

This doesn't really seem workable under reconciliation (as the article notes), nor does it address the issues people like Collins and Heller have, who want no cuts to Medicaid, and instead actually want more funds for Medicaid. It just decreases the cuts to Medicaid, there are still Medicaid cuts.

Also "may have already arrived at a compromise" isn't really what that article is saying at all. It's just a Ted Cruz suggestion that McConnell hasn't accepted yet, and possibly isn't even allowed to be attached to the bill. And Cruz himself hasn't even finished drafting it up. There hasn't been any debate on it, no other Nos have signed on to support it, and the CBO estimate is still going to be disastrous.

It's also a non-starter for Rand Paul

David H Wrong strikes again

 

[Taramoor]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RHnKYNvx8

 

[Oersted]

Republicans have been using "repeal and replace" as a slogan for a long time. Trump just said he would replace Obamacare with "something terrific" and "everybody" would be covered.

Within one hour no less

 

[HStallion]

The Republican's new healthcare pitch: Can we just have the army shoot sick people?

 

[NullPointer]

I really need an american to explain to me why on earth it is possible to win elections on promising to abolish helath care. What kind of lunatics want to have no public wellfare? How can resistence in the general populace, including those who sure as hell cannot aford e.g. a cancer treatment for themselves or their loved ones form? What is going on there?

Public services like Welfare, Food Stamps, Medicare, Obamacare, etc are just Democrats buying off the minorities, illegals, the unemployed and underclass for their votes to push for total government/socialist control of every person in the United States. The USA stands alone for individual liberty, freedom, and making your own way without demanding tax monies from the real wealth-holders and job creators. Government's only function is to protect us and our property from war and theft, not to take care of people.

Or something along those lines.

This attitude makes it so very easy for calcified corporate interests to drive policy to tap into that tax largess themselves, in the name of sticking it to big government.

 

[Brandon F]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RHnKYNvx8

Nothing changes. Incredibly poignant of FDR.

 

[Sean C]

Not really. Celebrity culture has led to us to overestimate the importance of the president. He cannot pass legislation besides flimsy executive orders. True change, for better or worse, comes through Congress. Those elections should receive vastly more attention than the presidential one.

The president can be an aid - or a hindrance, in Trump's case - in selling the public on a particular piece of legislation, but again, that ability stems directly from our national tendency to perceive the president as a combination of rock star and monarch. Congress plays a much larger, though less flashy, role in shaping the country.

The President can veto legislation as long as it doesn't have two-thirds support (which, on partisan matters, describes most things), and the executive has, over the years, accrued enormous discretionary power. Moreover, major legislative initiatives invariably require major presidential leadership to see them through -- as the GOP is finding with the idiotic Trump in charge.

 

[uncelestial]

Zero chance this happens, zero.

It already happened and the only thing that stopped it was Obama's veto.

They would need 60 for repeal.

I don't think so; reconciliation process.