It isn't just a shutdown at stake, it is also the debt ceiling. If the US government defaults on its debt, it could literally destroy the world economy.
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Trump's debt limit deal with Dems likely to lead to DACA becoming law at end of year
- Thread starter Cerium
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It isn't just a shutdown at stake, it is also the debt ceiling. If the US government defaults on its debt, it could literally destroy the world economy.
neurosisxeno
Member
All according to keikaku.
Paul Ryan wanted to raise the debt ceiling till past the midterms.
You know that might be why Trump is completely willing to fold in regards to the debt ceiling... The guy's been through enough bankruptcies to pick up on what superficially happens during them. Maybe Trump believes that if the United States goes bankrupt, the United States will be taken away from him.
Republicans flirted with default before, under Obama, and the US's credit got downgraded before they caved.
They will cave.
Destruction of the world economy is not a plausible outcome and Dems will not fold out of fear of it.
Also, if it ever gets to that point, I'm pretty sure Trump will have no compunctions about invoking the 14th Amendment. Obama didn't want to use such heavy handed tactics but Trump would do it in a heartbeat.
neurosisxeno
Member
Paul Ryan's also incompetent. So you should never have expected that to actually work.
Again, I'm not saying that Democrats shouldn't try to force it. They should, and hopefully they will be successful. But if it comes down to it, the Dreamers are more important than stopping the wall. Not to mention the world economy.
It probably would have worked if Trump didn't cave.
Trump will invoke the 14th long before there's a serious threat to the world economy. That's not something anyone should worry about. I promise you it's not something Democrats will worry about.
You're willing to risk the entire world economy on Trump's rationality?
I'm saying that what you're talking about is not realistic or worth treating seriously. You might as well worry about extinction by meteor.
Trump is the dumbest, most irrational person to ever be president. You might have a point if he was a normal president.
Republicans already tried using default as leverage under Obama and they caved.
They will cave again.
We've seen this movie before. It's not new.
And they got something (sequester).
Also, during that time, a smart, rational person was the President. We don't live in that reality now.
That President refused to negotiate. It was the congressional Republicans who folded. It's the congressional Republicans who will fold again if it comes to it. Trump doesn't have to have anything to do with it and it'll never get that far. I don't know why you're so obsessed with the end of the world but it's verging on absurd at this point.
They got sequester.
I don't get why you are willing to risk economic disaster for the fucking wall based on the rationality of Trump and Congressional Republicans. The wall is stupid, but it isn't that huge a deal.
You're being hysterical and I'll bookmark this page for when the world doesn't end in December.
I already said that I think Trump will fold, if I'm right you will have nothing to make fun of me for.
RoninChaos
Member
So why is this such a big deal? Does this run out the clock on reconciliation so congress has to work together?
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Nah, reconciliation is the end of this month for healthcare, there's no way they're trying that shit again with all the crap they have to do.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
It would have worked if Trump literally didn't despise Mr. Turtle and Ryan.
I guarantee most of this was just to spite them, because that's all Trump is actually driven on.
I think you are correct.
Republicans wanted to push any debt ceiling stuff past midterms. Democrats said no to long term (bluffing) and Trump bit on it.
He basically took the debt ceiling football from the GOP and gave it to the Dems, so now the Dems can use the debt ceiling as leverage in the midterms.
Dems will obviously never go for a default, but Trump bit on a high school president level tactic because he takes words literally at face value.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Basically if they had extended by 18 months they could of avoided any chance of the Federal Government going bankrupt prior to the 2018 election. Now if it does go bankrupt they would have that on their heads (being the sole party in power) as the majority of them ran for re-election.
It's a non-win scenario. No way that they can keep their jobs and let that happen. So now Schumer/Pelosi are going to force them to vote on other issues (DACA) prior to not shutting the government down.
This works for Trump in two ways. If the rumors are true and he didn't understand DACA this let's him work it out with the Dems to pass it long term (his first piece of big time Legislation). It also opens the doors to future Bi Partisan deals which Trump might need if he is going to accomplish anything outside of EO's (which can be reversed the day after he leaves) since it's clear the Republicans even with the majority can't pass shit.
I hate Trump...... but this is the smartest political thing he's done yet. The old sonoabitch might finally be learning.
Assuming he wants to get DACA passed into law, fucking Ryan and the Turtle here is actually smart.
SyenceLabb
Member
He has narcissistic personality disorder.
The most obvious case of anybody ever.
Let him do that if it protects nearly one million Dreamers.
They've looked like fools from the beginning. This is just a reminder.
You never win the war by refighting the last battle.
Mark Andrew
Member
I dont think anyone could have reasonably called Trump partisan before this. Just self-interested.
agreed. the farther Trump moves away from the republican policy agenda, the better.
BertramCooper
Banned
Let's separate governance from politics here for a sec.
Dems are great at governance and terrible at politics.
Republicans, inversely, are terrible at governance and great at politics.
You should be confident that this deal will stick. Pelosi and Schumer are ruthlessly competent statesmen. You should be less confident that the Democratic Party can translate this legislative success into any sort of political gain. Because we're pretty bad at doing that.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol this has to be Schumer's first win in years. Lets hope he succeeds at getting DACA become an actual law.
He and Nancy also won when they got the government funding bill a few months back with very few concessions to Republicans.
Also Chuck just became minority leader in January.
ebullientprism
Member
Dead Prince
Banned
Poodlestrike
Banned
This fucking...
What the fuck does that even mean?
Anyway, I really hope that Dreamers don't end up getting screwed even if Trump gets a win.
I'm with this guy.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Actually, they do have action to do. They need to re-register by early October to get a 2 year renewal on their application.
I don't understand. Someone help me understand.
Dead Prince
Banned
don't try to. it's coming from trump. he probably doesn't understand the majority of the things he is told or say.
BlastProcessing
Member
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