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[Stereogatari]

I'm not blaming Greeks, though. What I'm saying is that this displacement was tragic.

Not to mention that Turks lived in more places than Greece, so Lausanne doesn't apply in most cases.

Never.

It's not in the Wests interests at all to ever present themselves as anything other completely benevolent.

Turkey has no responsibility to admit to anything as most other considerably "Westernized" governments tend to not have to deal with it. Germany does, but only because they lost and only because of how bureaucratic and mechanized it was and its overall scope.

Thanks, you've worded it far better than I have managed to.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Thanks, you've worded it far better than I have managed to.

Careful, agreeing with me will get you black listed by the forum's jingoist/chauvinist liberals.

 

[p3tran]

Careful, agreeing with me will get you black listed by the forum's jingoist/chauvinist liberals.

hmmm, dont know about other subjects , but on this particular one what you say is not correct either.
I mean, look at whats happening between greece and germany right now...
calling shit <<benevolent>> practically means you have a very superficial understanding of shit that goes on (again, in this particular subject, I have no clue about other subjects)

 

[Stereogatari]

I just read the Wiki article on the genocide and interestingly the last Ottoman Emperor acknowledged the genocide, as did Ataturk of course.

 

[ultratruman]

Last page I posted that the Turkish Embassy here in DC has flyers for a "peace walk" from the White House to the Embassy on the 100th anniversary of the genocide that says something like "uniting Armenians and Turks" or something like that. There are people, real people who want the government to acknowledge the truth. There are even politicians who want to. The problem is the indoctrination is too deep, and the current regime does not want to acknowledge it. It's weird, because Ataturk had acknowledged and condemned the genocide at the time, and the denial narrative somehow came later. But since people are constantly taught from childhood that it never happened, it's hard to re-educate them as adults. The education system needs to change, and the government needs to acknowledge it - both of these lie at the feet of the government, and as long as Erdogan reigns (which seems like it will go on for as long as he lives) it won't happen. Shame, really.

AbsolutelY. Nobody wants to admit what they were told by their respected elders about their country's history is a Lie. Sentiments like this feed national insecurity, which bullys like Erdogan thrive from.

 

[Measley]

To be fair its not like America talk about the Native American genocide.

There's a difference between not talking about it, and claiming it never happened.

Good luck finding a large group of Americans who do the latter.

Situations also a bit different, since many Americans openly claim to have Native American ancestry.

 

[Stereogatari]

There's a difference between not talking about it, and claiming it never happened.

Good luck finding a large group of Americans who do the latter.

Situations also a bit different, since many Americans openly claim to have Native American ancestry.

Turks don't claim it never happened.

Many Turks openly claim to have non-Turkic Anatolian ancestry.

The issue is that Turks feel they are associated with the Armenian genocide more directly than other countries (bar Germany) are associated with their past crimes.

 

[Moosichu]

Turks don't claim it never happened.

Many Turks openly claim non-Turkic Anatolian ancestry.

The issue is that Turks feel they are associated with the Armenian genocide more directly than other countries (bar Germany) are associated with theirs.

But the government is. It's in the OP. Their refusing to call it what is was. Also, of course no one alive today is responsible for what happened then.

 

[Stereogatari]

But the government is. It's in the OP. Their refusing to call it what is was. Also, of course no one alive today is responsible for what happened then.

They don't deny that Armenians were killed by Turks.

"Turkish officials accept that atrocities were committed but argue that there was no systematic attempt to destroy the Christian Armenian people. Turkey says many innocent Muslim Turks also died in the turmoil of war."

I disagree with their position.

 

[Shuggananas]

"claim"
fuck you too

 

[Arksy]

no I did not ignore your post. I read it. and the example you used is very wrong.
you can blame this (horrible-disgusting thing you say) on turkish government of that time, too. just like the three-pit of genocides. they ordered for this. not ..balkan countries. I think its pretty clear. is it not?

This is ridiculous. Are you trying to tell me that the utter devastation wrought by the retreating Greek army (and their scorched earth campaign) during the Turkish war of independence was all Turkey's fault?

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

Hackers target the Vatican’s Web site over Pope Francis’ ‘genocide’ comment

Turkish hackers reportedly targeted the Vatican’s Web site on Monday after Pope Francis referred to the mass killings of Armenians by Turks as a “genocide,” according to reports.

Vatican.va was knocked offline after a cyber attack Monday night, according to reports, but was back online by Tuesday morning.

A Turkish hacker posted on Twitter taking credit and demanding an apology.


The Vatican has been targeted by hackers in the past. Anonymous, an international hacking group, took down the Catholic Church’s main Web site in 2012. The group has made repeated attempts to take down the church’s website.

The attack comes as pope called the 1915 killings of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Turks a “genocide,” and not just any genocide but “the first genocide of the 20th century.”

In the voice of the comedian Bill Burr...Ohhhhh Jeeeeeezzzzusss!

 

[TheRealTalker]

Germany, defying Turkey, to call 1915 Armenian massacre 'genocide'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/20/us-turkey-armenia-germany-idUSKBN0NB1JZ20150420
(Reuters) - The German government backed away on Monday from a steadfast refusal to use the term "genocide" to describe the massacre of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turkish forces 100 years ago after rebellious members of parliament forced its hand.

In a major reversal in Turkey's top trading partner in the European Union and home to millions of Turks, Germany joins other nations and institutions including France, the European parliament and Pope Francis in using the term condemned by Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan.......

Turkey sends condolences to descendants of killed Armenians to mark centenary

Published April 20, 2015Associated Press
ANKARA, Turkey &#8211; Turkey's prime minister said a ceremony would be held in Istanbul to commemorate Armenians killed a century ago by Ottoman Turks and again issued condolences to their descendants.

However, in a message released Monday, Ahmet Davutoglu stopped short of calling the slaughter of Armenians genocide and criticized efforts to force Turkey to admit to the crime.

Historians estimate that up to 1.5 million Armenians were killed by Ottoman Turks around the time of World War I, an event widely viewed by scholars as the first genocide of the 20th century. Turkey however, denies that the deaths constituted genocide, saying the toll has been inflated, and that those killed were victims of civil war and unrest.

The message came days before Armenians mark the centenary of the killings on April 24.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...scendants-killed-armenians-to-mark-centenary/

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ap...-says.aspx?pageID=238&nID=81335&NewsCatID=338

&#8220;To protect the memory of the Ottoman Armenians and the Armenian cultural heritage is a humane and historic duty of Turkey. With this understanding, the Ottoman Armenians will be commemorated in Turkey just like in the entire world through a religious ceremony to be held on April 24 by the Armenian Patriarchate,&#8221; read the statement.

.

 

[Jasper]

Uh-oh Turkey.....both your former WW1 allies recognising the Armenian Genocide in under 48 hours....

Austria Recognizes Armenian Genocide

VIENNA&#8212;The Austrian Parliament drafted a statement on April 21 condemning the Armenian Genocide and calling on Turkey to face its past. According to sources, all six factions of parliament came together and agreed on the statement, which will be presented to the public on April 22.

The news comes a day after Germany announced its plan to &#8220;stand behind&#8221; a resolution affirming the Armenian Genocide, which will be voted on April 24.
Germany&#8217;s Parliament is set to use the term &#8220;genocide&#8221; in a resolution, and the government said on April 20 that it will support the motion sponsored by the ruling parties.

A draft of the German resolution notes the Armenians&#8217; fate is &#8220;exemplary for the history of mass destruction, ethnic cleansing, expulsions, and genocides by which the 20th century is marked in such a terrible way.&#8221;

http://www.mozaaf.com/post/849171


&

Germany, defying Turkey, to call 1915 Armenian massacre 'genocide'

(Reuters) - The German government backed away on Monday from a steadfast refusal to use the term "genocide" to describe the massacre of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turkish forces 100 years ago after rebellious members of parliament forced its hand.

In a major reversal in Turkey's top trading partner in the European Union and home to millions of Turks, Germany joins other nations and institutions including France, the European parliament and Pope Francis in using the term condemned by Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan.

Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert said the government would support a resolution in parliament on Friday declaring it an example of genocide.

Germany had long resisted using the term "genocide" even though France and other nations have. But Merkel's coalition government came under pressure from parliamentary deputies in their own ranks planning to use the word in a resolution.

"The government backs the draft resolution ... in which the fate of the Armenians during World War One serves as an example of the history of mass murders, ethnic cleansings, expulsions and, yes, the genocides during the 20th century," Seibert said.

Turkey denies that the killings, at a time when Ottoman troops were fighting Russian forces, constituted genocide. It says there was no organized campaign to wipe out Armenians and no evidence of any such orders from the Ottoman authorities.

"We believe that there is no such black stain in our history," Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc said when asked about the German resolution, saying similar votes in other parliaments had not changed Turkey's position.

But in an apparent softening of tone, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said Ottoman Armenians would be commemorated at a religious ceremony in the Armenian Patriarchate in Istanbul on April 24, the 100th anniversary, in what he described as a "historic and humane" duty for Turkey.

A source in his office said the ceremony would be attended by a government minister, an unprecedented move.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/20/us-turkey-armenia-germany-idUSKBN0NB1JZ20150420

 

[The Albatross]

If only President Obama would follow suit:

Obama won't call it Armenian 'genocide' on 100th anniversary of atrocity

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/21/politics/obama-armenian-genocide-100th-anniversary/index.html

Washington (CNN)President Barack Obama, wary of damaging relations with Turkey amid growing unrest in the Middle East, won't use the 100th anniversary of the massacre of Armenians under the Ottoman Empire to declare the brutal episode a genocide.

Despite Obama's campaign promise in 2008 to "recognize the Armenian Genocide" as president, the White House on Tuesday issued a carefully worded statement on a high-level administration meeting with Armenian groups that avoided using the term "genocide."

An administration official said Obama, who will mark the centennial this Friday, would similarly avoid using the word. The term angers Ankara, which denies that Ottoman Turks carried out a genocide.

(more at link)