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Turkey is a democracy confirmed. Government loses majority.
- Thread starter Stereogatari
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Dragoon En Regalia
Member
I'm pleased to see that level of turnout, coming from a U.S. perspective. Has voter turnout normally been at that level?
Would also like to know if there's an internal trend against Erdogan connected to the results.
Would also like to know if there's an internal trend against Erdogan connected to the results.
so Erdogan is conservative right? What's the ideology of the parties that won big? should we be expecting a more or less conservative government? Regardless it's great to see turnout that high. I wish we could get close to that in the US. Turnout was 36% last election here, which is a fucking disgrace.
archnemesis
Member
I can't find many good sources about the election, but it seems like there were some issues.
- Swedish politician says intl election mission threatened at gunpoint
- Elections overshadowed by tension and violence
- Reports of widespread fraud across Turkey taint general election
What's your take, Stereogatari? Do you believe it was a fair election?
- Swedish politician says intl election mission threatened at gunpoint
- Elections overshadowed by tension and violence
- Reports of widespread fraud across Turkey taint general election
What's your take, Stereogatari? Do you believe it was a fair election?
Barajas_201
Member
Congrats to Turkey citizens! Elections are taking place today in Mexico and I hope we have a similar result against the PRI-Verde 
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
im not completely in tune with the politics in Turkey but from what i gathered, the president seemed to be making Turkey into some sort of autocracy, so hopefully this clips him a little bit.
Stereogatari
Banned
Yes in Turkey politics are very popular among all demographics, not much apathy towards politics which is ironic considering how "undemocratic" Turkey is stereotyped as. Despite Erdogan's totalitarian tendencies, there is a vibrant opposition culture in Turkey like you expect from typical Western countries.
To roughly equate it with US politics:
AKP- Republicans. Considerably religious and quite nationalist.
CHP- Democrats. The party founded by the founding father of Turkey. Secular, left-wing etc. but still nationalist (I know it's confusing but bear with it lol).
MHP- Proper nationalists slightly religious. Analogous to Republicans that are more nationalist than religious.
HDP- Mainly orientated towards pro-Kurdish issues. Imagine if Black people had a party that represents them. Loads of usual CHP supporters voted for these guys to get them over the 10% threshold. If they didn't get over the 10% threshold then AKP would have got all their seats.
I'm hoping CHP, MHP and HDP join to form a new government. But MHP and HDP won't get on, but I hope they consider their mutual hate of AKP and stick it out for the good of the country.
No, the events in Syria aren't effecting this election. Everyone is concerned about internal issues, primarily whether Turkey will go in the direction of becoming a Presidential System like America.
Yes more or less final results.
I believe it was mostly a fair election. There are reports like this during every Turkish election. But I don't think the dodgy stuff has significantly affected anything.
darkhunger
Member
I'm in Turkey for a visit right now and things related to the election is definitely a lot more in your face than anything I've seen in the U.S. or UK. Banners and flags line the streets as if there's a holiday celebration, and everyone and everything is talking about it. People just seems to care a lot more about politics in this part of the world.
Slackbladder
Member
40.9% of the vote and not enough to form a majority Government? Hmm. Whilst here in the UK the Tories get 39.4% of the vote and easily gain a majority. I feel Turkey is more of a Democracy than the UK!
Stereogatari
Banned
Turkey has PR system. So yep.
If Turkey had a FPTP system like UK then AKP would have won the majority easily.
In the UK countless votes go to waste. It's a shame. Whereas in Turkey a vote has much more value.
Have there been any rumblings on how willing the parties are to do this? How are MHP in regards to Kurds?
Stereogatari
Banned
They loathe Kurds and obviously Kurds loathe them. To be fair the average ethnic Turk, even many left-wing progressive CHP voters, aren't too fond of Kurds. But with MHP it's full blown racism, they even have a Turkish equivalent of the Nazi Salute which is the Wolf symbol. In Turkish mythology it is said the Turkish race was born when a young warrior was raised by a she-wolf and they mated to birth the Turkish race, so that's where the symbol comes from.
So it's a slim chance that they'll make friends, but perhaps there is a slim chance they'll do it just to get AKP out.
Canis lupus
Member
So if you can beat a dictator in the ballot box, can you still call him a dictator?
Facism
Member
Dat Asena
If anything, the political system in Turkey seems more democratic than several western ones lol
Every vote counts + significant voter turnout & public interest in politics + healthy opposition.
I get the feeling they get shit on by much of the west because their Islamic roots.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
one step backward from going full Russia
Thanks for the info. These MHP guys don't sound like the greatest bunch...
I mean, there was also the whole issue of censorship by taking down twitter/youtube when it didn't suit the government's agenda.
Thanks for the detailed response! Everything I've heard about Erdogan has been bad news, so hopefully a coalition like you mentioned forms.
Stereogatari
Banned
Turk stronk!
That's pretty much all it comes down to. The World tends to think we're a brown skinned, extremely religious country. In other words a typical "Muslim" country like what they see on the news.
When we're more like a white, olive and light brown skinned country (so a lot of us look indistinguishable from Europeans) and Turkey is split between religious and non-religious people, and most of the "religious" people do not fit the image of "religious Muslims" that exists in the West. It's more like what "religious Christians" are like in the US, for lack of a better word, first world civilised religious people.
Also the problem is that the government represents a country in World News. So when Erdogan does dumb shit, it represents us all unfortunately.
Wow this is great news and I honestly didn't expect this to happen considering the massive electoral fraud AKP committed during local elections last year. I'm living in the US so I hadn't seen this news yet but this is really great and gives me a glimmer of hope for the future of Turkey.
Canis lupus
Member
Indeed, Western media has treated Turkey and its democracy unfairly, they've been trying to paint it as yet another failed system. There even was this journalist who asked whether this was Turkey's last election. So much fear mongering.
It's a good outcome for Turkey concidering the route Erdogan was taking. He wanted to go full Putin and change the constitution but the voters did a good job there. Unfortunately, I've missed my chance to vote by a day (don't live there) but I'm happy with the results. 40% is quite a number for the AKP but bear in mind that ~50% supported parties which are considered anti Erdogan.
I hope that the nationalist party MHP won't consider a coalition with the conservative AKP, but I guess their goals are too contradictory even though they share some beliefs. The MHP won't do a coalition with the HDP (and CHP), that's a sure thing. The HDP are supporting minorities since they're the successor party of the Kurds. MHP members hate the Kurds and other minorities so I believe that they will never agree to take part in a coalition with them. That would basically mean early elections.
At the guys comparing it with the UK election: can't really compare it since UK has the FPTP and Turkey not. The voter participation is high because Erdogan's government has been a quite controversial one (think of the Gezi Riots; people died there) and there was far more bullshit involved than Cameron could ever do. Voter participation in general is only high when the election takes place during crucial times. The Western World is quite satisfied even though the conservative parties don't care much about minorities and the poors. But as long as our lives are relatively easy compared to the ones suffering from things like censorship there will never be a sky high voter participation.
I hope that the nationalist party MHP won't consider a coalition with the conservative AKP, but I guess their goals are too contradictory even though they share some beliefs. The MHP won't do a coalition with the HDP (and CHP), that's a sure thing. The HDP are supporting minorities since they're the successor party of the Kurds. MHP members hate the Kurds and other minorities so I believe that they will never agree to take part in a coalition with them. That would basically mean early elections.
At the guys comparing it with the UK election: can't really compare it since UK has the FPTP and Turkey not. The voter participation is high because Erdogan's government has been a quite controversial one (think of the Gezi Riots; people died there) and there was far more bullshit involved than Cameron could ever do. Voter participation in general is only high when the election takes place during crucial times. The Western World is quite satisfied even though the conservative parties don't care much about minorities and the poors. But as long as our lives are relatively easy compared to the ones suffering from things like censorship there will never be a sky high voter participation.
Canis lupus
Member
rolfmao
RustyNails
Member
Erdogan is not bad news. Yeah he's conservative and has slight autocratic ways about him. You should however read about how he wrested the political control from the military and gave it to civilian government thus ending decades of quasi military and sometimes direct military dictatorship rule, and how his economic policies made turkey formidable power in the region. Its as if Pakistan ended the military patriarchy and became an economic powerhouse within a decade.
titiklabingapat
Member
Not happy with the conservative uptick but great result for a republican democracy nonetheless.
Stereogatari
Banned
rolfmao
Loool Gandhi's got some negotiating to do.
I'm no fan of Islamism, but the "ERDOĞAN IS EVIL INCARNATE" rhetoric is boring. The Western Media paint him as a pantomime villain; Hitler looking Muslim guy fits the bill. There's so much more nuance and politicians in Turkish politics. The Western Media used to adore him back when it suited them. Hypocrites.
That's a strange opinion. Yes, he ended the political control of the military and that was necessary. However, he's an autocratic leader willing to change the constitution to ensure his power and he's capable of shutting down everything which doesn't apply to his ideology. The choice shouldn't be between an undemocratic leader and an undemocratic military of the past. Furthermore the economical boom is over. The Turkish currency is losing its value, a lot of investors are backtracking, etc. . Economical reformations were created before Erdogans time but he realised them and that was his achievement, I give him credit for this. But it remains a mystery for me why one would support a government which is willing to shit on your individual rights just because they had (not anymore) some economical achievements.
He's bad news. He may have got things done, but he's all about destroying democratic potential these days.
IdreamofHIME
Member
84.5% turnout for the Scottish referendum.
Turk stronk!
That's pretty much all it comes down to. The World tends to think we're a brown skinned, extremely religious country. In other words a typical "Muslim" country like what they see on the news.
When we're more like a white, olive and light brown skinned country (so a lot of us look indistinguishable from Europeans) and Turkey is split between religious and non-religious people, and most of the "religious" people do not fit the image of "religious Muslims" that exists in the West. It's more like what "religious Christians" are like in the US, for lack of a better word, first world civilised religious people.
Also the problem is that the government represents a country in World News. So when Erdogan does dumb shit, it represents us all unfortunately.
?? Turk is a slang word for secular around here, has been for a long time.
Our turnout for the g.e was pretty decent too (scotland).
PJV3
Member
A wannabe autocrat who wants to change the constitution for himself is bad news, it won't end there, it never does.
Stereogatari
Banned
Reddit's WorldNews sub continues to show how moronic it is. News story about an isolated incident of some voter fraud dominates up votes and comments with 1000+ comments. People bemoaning what Turkey has become etc.
The story about the democracy affirming election results is under 100 comments.
Morons. Turcophobic and Islamophobic morons. Latch onto the isolated story that confirms their prejudices. Ignore the actual election results that destroy their prejudices.
Minority MPs elected:
1 Roma MP from CHP
1 Assyrian MP from HDP
3 Armenian MPs (one each from CHP / HDP / AKP)
1 Yazidi MP from HDP
3-4 openly pro-LGBT MPs from CHP and HDP
And of course the 80+ from the pro-Kurdish HDP.
The story about the democracy affirming election results is under 100 comments.
Morons. Turcophobic and Islamophobic morons. Latch onto the isolated story that confirms their prejudices. Ignore the actual election results that destroy their prejudices.
Minority MPs elected:
1 Roma MP from CHP
1 Assyrian MP from HDP
3 Armenian MPs (one each from CHP / HDP / AKP)
1 Yazidi MP from HDP
3-4 openly pro-LGBT MPs from CHP and HDP
And of course the 80+ from the pro-Kurdish HDP.
That's good to know, makes me feel proud. Where is that?
He did, but he's going to find it much much harder now.
RustyNails
Member
What are the specific articles he want to change or addend?
Stereogatari
Banned
In short, he wanted to make Turkey a Presidential Republic like America rather than a Parliamentary Republic like much of Europe.
But his plans are well and truly scuppered.
RustyNails
Member
So he basically wanted to change the system of governance from one form of democracy to another. I don't see how that makes him "SUDDENLY SADDAM!!!"
Does that mean LGBT? I think at least one was on the ballot for HDP.
Suddenly Hungary.
PJV3
Member
He's doing it for himself, I don't think it makes him Hitler, but the ego and the inability to let go of power isn't good.
If Cameron tried that when his time is up I would feel the same.
I don't think the US is a good analogy. A big part of American politics is splitting the power in three between the President, Congress and court system, not everything on the President.
That's not exactly the truth. He doesn't want a presidential system like the one in the US . He wants to have a similar type of position yes, but he wants to have more power (Obamas power is still relatively restricted) and no limit for ruling. Obama will leave after this period, Erdogans intention is to stay till the very end. It's more of a Putin like ruling.
Nope. Please do some proper research. There is a reason why he failed with the elections today. Even some members of his party rejected this undemocratic transformation.
Young Turk. It's a popular expression that has morphed a bit here in the United States
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
The left got it's biggest result since the 1980 coup. 38% that's huge for a country like Turkey. More importantly the first-time voters were overwelmingly left oriented. The success of the HDP is that they got out of the confines of being the "Kurdish" party and was able to transform itself to a leftist socialist party that could attract also Turkish voters. Not the South East (Kurdish region) but the big cities like Istanbul and Izmir were their biggest successes.
Some other notable things, the Armenians are back with 3 MP's. With a little under 100 it will be the biggest participation of women in parliament (still to low, but it's heading in the right direction). Too bad the gay dude didn't make it. Lastly Erdogan can shove that presidentcy right into his ass!
Some other notable things, the Armenians are back with 3 MP's. With a little under 100 it will be the biggest participation of women in parliament (still to low, but it's heading in the right direction). Too bad the gay dude didn't make it. Lastly Erdogan can shove that presidentcy right into his ass!
The bombing at the HDP rally and Erdogan's noncommittal stance on it pissed off a lot of people. I think Eskisehir had a openly gay candidate run for office as well, even if he didn't win.
There's no telling how things would have gone if AKP got the extra 1% they needed for an outright majority last election.
There's no telling how things would have gone if AKP got the extra 1% they needed for an outright majority last election.
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