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[TheRealTalker]

From the Deash Update thread

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171995

Turkey and Free Syrian Army launch attack on Jarablus on the Turkish border

A dozen Turkish tanks have rolled across the Syrian border after heavy Turkish shelling of an area held by so-called Islamic State (IS).
Military sources told Turkish media 70 targets in the Jarablus area had been destroyed by artillery and rocket strikes, and 12 by air strikes.
Turkish special forces entered Syria earlier as part of the offensive.
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the operation was aimed against both IS and Kurdish fighters.
Turkey shelled Syrian Kurdish forces in the region this week, determined not to let them fill the vacuum if IS leaves, the BBC's Mark Lowen reports from Gaziantep, near the Syrian border.
The concern in Ankara is that the Kurds could create an autonomous area close to the border which might foster Kurdish separatism within Turkey itself, our correspondent says.

The tanks were followed by pick-up trucks believed to be carrying Turkish-backed Syrian rebels from the Free Syrian Army.
"At 04:00 [01:00 GMT] our forces began an operation against the Daesh [IS] and PYD [Kurdish Democratic Union Party] terror groups," President Erdogan said in a speech in Ankara.
The offensive is aimed at "putting an end" to problems on the border, he said.
A Turkish tank heads towards the Syrian border, 24 AugustImage copyrightAFP
Image caption
At least a dozen tanks were involved
The Turkish town of Karkamis - just across the border from Jarablus - was evacuated as a precaution following earlier IS mortar attacks.
Turkey has vowed to "completely cleanse" IS from its border region, blaming the group for a bomb attack on a wedding that killed at least 54 people in Gaziantep on Saturday.

An unnamed senior US official in Washington told BBC News before the start of the Turkish operation that it was "partly to create a buffer against the possibility of the Kurds moving forward".
"We are working with them on that potential operation: our advisers are communicating with them on the Jarablus plan.
"We'll give close air support if there's an operation."

Hopefully the US can keep Turkey/FSA from fighting the SDF in the region, at least while Daesh is still active. Obviously ideally they'd work together against Assad too after that and come to an agreement on running Syria, but that would be the most optimistic scenario.

Seems like Turkey was spooked by the Kurds' success into doing what they should have been doing three years ago.

BREAKING: Biden says Syrian Kurdish forces will lose US support if they don't retreat to east bank of Euphrates - @joshledermanAP
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/768451495213891585

BREAKING: YPG spox. "At the request of the US-backed SDF, we are withdrawing from west of the Euphrates."
http://www.birgun.net/haber-detay/ypg-firat-in-batisindan-cekiliyoruz-125439.html …
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/768456946684948480

MORE: Non-YPG elements of the SDF will remain west of the Euphrates River in northern #Syria.

SYRIA: Turkish F-16s enter Syrian airspace for first time since Russian jet incident in November, no threat up to now - @CNNTURK_ENG
https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/768425250946154496

Note this is after a few days of YGP forces facing off against Assad for the first time in Hassaka.

Plus there is even more ground being taken from Assad in Aleppo

 

[Stereogatari]

Thank you based Biden.

 

[Blueliner]

What a giant shitshow, and with no end in sight. With all of the different nations now involved, especially if on a ground level, this whole war becomes more and more dangerous for not just the region, but increasingly towards the world.

 

[TheRealTalker]

it is interesting how the YPG just completely listened to Biden

I guess they value that air support

 

[NyMartin90]

From the other thread

Turkish tanks and FSA Arab troops
https://twitter.com/Dalatrm/status/768362735918837760

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171995

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Turkey?src=hash

Also Biden is in Turkey visiting

Joe Biden is in Turkey to try and reset relations strained by the fallout from last month's failed coup attempt. Turks felt they did not get a clear message of support from Washington so Mr Biden is doing everything he can to send one - including deliberate comparisons to the trauma Americans suffered after the 9/11 attacks.
The Turkish government is also upset by America's alliance with Kurds in northern Syria. It believes they are linked to Turkish Kurds who are battling Ankara. The US finds the Syrian Kurds an effective force against Islamic State militants but the Turks fear the alliance is helping them gain territory for an autonomous zone along the Turkish border.
A US official travelling with Mr Biden admitted that some Turkish fighters had pushed further north than they should have and said Turkey's offensive on IS in Jarablus was probably partly to create a buffer zone against any further Kurdish advance.
But he said the US had "put a lid" on any more such moves, creating a breathing space for the Jarablus operation, which the US supports and to which it is ready to contribute.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171995

https://twitter.com/cnnturk_eng?lang=en

 

[TheRealTalker]

Biden is in Turkey and Kerry is in Saudi Arabia

I have a feeling we might see something happen in Yemen too

 

[NyMartin90]

So is YPG giving up Manbij if they have to move to East Euphrates?

 

[TheRealTalker]

So is YPG giving up Manbij if they have to move to East Euphrates?

yup pretty much if they decide to take Manbij

they said they'd leave non YPG forces there though... which likely means Arab units

 

[kmag]

Ah the US shitting on the Kurds yet again.

 

[thefro]

As I said in the other thread, this isn't a bad thing for the US as long as both groups can keep from fighting each other instead of Daesh/Assad.

yup pretty much if they decide to take Manbij

they said they'd leave non YPG forces there though... which likely means Arab units

Which they should do until the Turkish-backed units make it to Manbij anyway.

Ah the US shitting on the Kurds yet again.

I would assume it's a bigger deal than that and Turkey hopefully won't be attacking YPG forces randomly for a while. But we'll see.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Ah the US shitting on the Kurds yet again.

Tis the life of the Kurds

everyone uses them



They decided to accept this since unlike last time they can't help Assad/Russia since Assad attacked them recently.

As I said in the other thread, this isn't a bad thing for the US as long as both groups can keep from fighting each other instead of Daesh/Assad.



Which they should do until the Turkish-backed units make it to Manbij anyway.

you know what would be crazy? If some forces invade via North of Jordan to also create a buffer zone.

but that likely won't happen unless Russia allows it since unlike the North, the South is more Assad territory

 

[CHEEZMO™]

you know what would be crazy? If some forces invade via North of Jordan to also create a buffer zone.

but that likely won't happen unless Russia allows it since unlike the North, the South is more Assad territory

Well there is the New Syrian Army which sort of counts.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Well there is the New Syrian Army which sort of counts.

if any of these things succeed without "coalition" infighting that we constantly see then I wonder if any nations will have the balls to actually deliberately attack key Assad positions

if this northern offensive is just a farce and just a swapping of terroritories with out actually planning a real ending we shall also see

I figured this would happen. The Kurds overplayed their hand and spooked the Turks, and the Turks have the US by the balls because of Incirlik and NATO. Damn it.

Well, it's not like the Kurds should be holding anything to the west of the Euphrates anyway since those aren't Kurdish lands, but I was hoping they wouldn't have to give those up until the end of the war since they're doing the best at actually winning. I guess say goodbye to Afrin Canton, Rojava.

When the US gets out after ISIS is more or less defeated, I hope the Kurds don't have to become reliant on Saudi aid.

if the Kurds had maintained those areas till the end of the war then they could've used it as a bargaining chip for independence

 

[sphagnum]

I figured this would happen. The Kurds overplayed their hand and spooked the Turks, and the Turks have the US by the balls because of Incirlik and NATO. Damn it.

Well, it's not like the Kurds should be holding anything to the west of the Euphrates anyway since those aren't Kurdish lands, but I was hoping they wouldn't have to give those up until the end of the war since they're doing the best at actually winning. I guess say goodbye to Afrin Canton, Rojava.

When the US gets out after ISIS is more or less defeated, I hope the Kurds don't have to become reliant on Saudi aid.

if the Kurds had maintained those areas till the end of the war then they could've used it as a bargaining chip for independence

The map of the Middle East needs to be redrawn at some point if there's going to be peace, so I'm ok with that. I know Turks aren't (sorry Stereogatari) but these ethno-national conflicts will not cease until it's settled once and for all, like with the Balkans.

(I just noticed how weird it is that I'm quoting someone above me who quoted me below him)

 

[Future PhaZe]

gulen is in trouble

 

[NyMartin90]

I find this coincidence to be hilarious

 

[TheRealTalker]

gulen is in trouble

pretty much


Biden literally came to Turkey giving presents

Biden says U.S. co-operating with Turkey on evidence against Gulen

U.S Vice President Joe Biden during Ankara visit says "wish Gulen were in another country, not in U.S"- @CNNTURK_ENG

I find this coincidence to be hilarious

knowing Erdogan....




basically in a nutshell the Syrian conflict is truly unpredictable

 

[xenist]

Ah the US shitting on the Kurds yet again.

There is nothing that guarantees the US will shit on you like fighting with them as a loyal ally.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Wonder what the next phase is. Linking with al-Rai? Might be too early to go to Manbij immediately.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Wonder what the next phase is. Linking with al-Rai? Might be too early to go to Manbij immediately.

they are going even more south since the YGP gave away this area to Turkey

https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/768458586846560257

I doubt they'll go west

 

[NyMartin90]

If the Kurds have to focus their forces on the East of the Euphrates I can see them getting to Raqqa first

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Biden is in Turkey and Kerry is in Saudi Arabia

I have a feeling we might see something happen in Yemen too

Well Saleh and the Hothis are calling for Russia to help which seems their last straw and Russia don't have anything to gain, Assad is far more valuable to Russia than Saleh ever was.

 

[thefro]

Wonder what the next phase is. Linking with al-Rai? Might be too early to go to Manbij immediately.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/24/middleeast/turkish-troops-isis-syria-operation/

Troops will create a safe zone of 90 by 40 kilometers (55 by 25 miles) for refugees between the towns of Marea and Jarablus, Turkish media said.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Well Saleh and the Hothis are calling for Russia to help which seems their last straw and Russia don't have anything to gain, Assad is far more valuable to Russia than Saleh ever was.

and I doubt the South, (Taiz, Hadramout, Aden, etc...) would want the North to even consider running them

https://twitter.com/riskstaff/status/768033561874165760

the current map of Yemen basically has the areas similar to the pre unification of Yemen and likely if SA has balls they'd make South Yemen become independent and then just leave the war


you would then likely see a North that at first has some crazy nationalism, then maybe a military build up with help from Iran seeing as they already recently got missiles there and Iran confirmed they are involved a few days ago

maybe try again to retake the South (but if the South has a secure border by then they might fail which would likely make the north go downhill from there and might actually consider again having peace talks
----

On Another note you can see the Syrian Live Map here
http://syria.liveuamap.com/

 

[Oriel]

The Kurds were looking at linking up their canton in the West with their rapid territorial gains, effectively blocking off Turkish access to FSA areas. This was in contravention of Turkish aims to form a buffer zone inside Syria where Syrian rebels could freelt operate from. The spread of ISIS and the Russian intervention put an end to that goal.

This invasion by Turkish forces was the last resort, something Erdogan had tried to avoid from the beginning but was planned for just in case.

 

[thefro]

AFP is reporting Turkish-backed rebels are claiming they have taken Jarablus

No article up from them yet, but Al Arabiya has this:

In an operation backed by Turkish shelling, Syrian rebels said on Wednesday that Jarablus in northern Syria on the Turkish border has been “libeated” from ISIS militant group.

“Jarablus is completely liberated,” Ahmad Othman, commander of the Sultan Mourad rebel group, told AFP from the scene, while another rebel spokesman said ISIS fighters had fled towards Al-Bab, to the southwest.

Earlier, a rebel commander with the Failaq al-Sham group, who requested anonymity, told Reuters that most of ISIS fighters in Jarablus had pulled out, some of them surrendering. Another commander estimated up to 50 percent of the town was now under the control of the Turkish-backed rebels.

“Daesh (ISIS) fighters have withdrawn from several villages on the outskirts of Jarablus and are heading south towards the city of al Bab,” the Failaq al Sham commander said.

After a pre-dawn barrage of heavy artillery and airstrikes, Turkey sent tanks and special forces into Syria on Wednesday to help clear a border town of ISIS militants and prevent Kurdish rebels from making any gains, marking the NATO member’s most significant military involvement so far in the Syria conflict.

The operation -- named “Euphrates Shield” -- began around 4:00 am (0100 GMT) with Turkish artillery pounding dozens of ISIS targets around Jarablus, the Turkish prime minister’s office said.

Turkish tanks and special forces accompanied by pro-Ankara Syrian rebels then rolled across the border in an unprecedented operation to drive ISIS out of the town from which it has fired rockets into Turkey.

Hours after the start of the operation, Turkey’s state-run news agency and a Syrian opposition media activist said the rebels captured Kaklijeh - an ISIS-held village near Jarablus - with the support of Turkish armored units. The village is some 3 kilometers (1.8 miles) from the Turkish border, the Anadolu Agency said.

 

[TheRealTalker]

#Jarablus has fallen; FSA control former #ISIS HQ.

Phase II of operation will seek to connect with Al-Rai.

Phase III = to capture Al-Bab.

.

 

[sphagnum]

Man, that was quick.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Seems a lot of the ISIS fighters evacuated. Not surprising, considering we've known this was gonna happen for a week, plus the artillery and air strikes.

 

[Kolx]

and I doubt the South, (Taiz, Hadramout, Aden, etc...) would want the North to even consider running them

the current map of Yemen basically has the areas similar to the pre unification of Yemen and likely if SA has balls they'd make South Yemen become independent and then just leave the war


you would then likely see a North that at first has some crazy nationalism, then maybe a military build up with help from Iran seeing as they already recently got missiles there and Iran confirmed they are involved a few days ago

maybe try again to retake the South (but if the South has a secure border by then they might fail which would likely make the north go downhill from there and might actually consider again having peace talks
----

On Another note you can see the Syrian Live Map here
http://syria.liveuamap.com/

What is the point of leaving north Yemen to Al Houthis? Wasn't this the whole point why SA intervened in the first place? to push them out of the borders?

 

[sphagnum]

Seems a lot of the ISIS fighters evacuated. Not surprising, considering we've known this was gonna happen for a week, plus the artillery and air strikes.

Shoring up the defenses for Raqqa.

 

[TheRealTalker]

What is the point of leaving north Yemen to Al Houthis? Wasn't this the whole point why SA intervened in the first place? to push them out of the borders?

the point of stopping the houthis from advancing on the rest of the country

when the war started Houthis had Aden, etc...


but seeing as the North basically stopped all talks then there is no point in pursuing any further unless they want to kill everyone up north

plus the South wants independence

even on an economic standpoint what would be better is to let the South go independent, focus of AQAP and secure their SA southern border with units and air defense

on a humanitarian sense this will also save lives

 

[Baybars]

Shoring up the defenses for Raqqa.

Raqqa is going to be the mother of all battles. Since there are thousands of civilians in there. Including christian arabs who decided to stay there. Mind you. Raqqah was liberated from assad before it was taken over by isis henchmen, killing hundreds of rebel fighters in the process

 

[TheRealTalker]

apparently SDF ignored warning to withdraw (not sure if it is Kurds though)

and now it is basically on between Turkey and them

New Map

it is now a race between the two on who will get more ISIS territory

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

I guess turkey has the might, but the Kurds have been treated like shit by so many people that I find it hard to side against them.

 

[TheRealTalker]

meanwhile ISIS is busy taking photos about birds

https://twitter.com/colebunzel/status/768812097983516672

I guess turkey has the might, but the Kurds have been treated like shit by so many people that I find it hard to side against them.

the Kurds also betrayed a bunch of other groups too

but then that is the Syrian civil war for you

 

[NyMartin90]

the Kurds also betrayed a bunch of other groups too
but then that is the Syrian civil war for you

While the Kurds have a week to retreat across the Euphrates it looks like they're advancing rather than retreating for now.

This is interesting.

 

[Stereogatari]

I guess turkey has the might, but the Kurds have been treated like shit by so many people that I find it hard to side against them.

Remember that Turks could've been nationless like Kurds if our ancestors lost the Independence War as European powers attempted to divide the remaining Turkish land between them for colonisation. Kurds fought together with Turks at that time in the name of Islam.

Turks have the might today because their ancestors fought to establish it. Otherwise we'd be treated like shit as well. Kurds unfortunately for them, didn't have a strong Westernised intellectual class at the time of World War I, so they didn't have an independent say at the table of Balkan and Middle Eastern nationalism.

I side with Kurdish aspirations in Iraq and Syria. But unfortunately the latter would put Turkey's security situation under a huge threat.

 

[thefro]

While the Kurds have a week to retreat across the Euphrates it looks like they're advancing rather than retreating for now.

This is interesting.

There's a large portion of SDF that aren't Kurdish YPG and are Arab/Assyrian/Turkmen militias, so it's hard to tell just from the map what the actual Kurdish forces are doing.

 

[NyMartin90]

There's a large portion of SDF that aren't Kurdish YPG and are Arab/Assyrian/Turkmen militias, so it's hard to tell just from the map what the actual Kurdish forces are doing.

There are some reports of Kurds not acknowledging Biden's call for retreat.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/turkey-shells-kurdish-militia-northern-syria-turkish-state-192354001.html
Turkish artillery on Thursday shelled targets of the militia of the Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD) in northern Syria after they advanced in violation of an accord with the United States, state media said.

Turkish forces opened fire on PYD "militants" from 6:00 pm (1500 GMT) after intelligence showed they were advancing despite a promise by the US that the Kurdish militia would retreat,

 

[TheRealTalker]

the Kurds were likely going to Partition those areas

we must also note that in these liberated areas by the Kurds there is a mass migration of Syrians leaving the said areas

the biggest mistake was the Kurds backstabbing the Syrian opposition early on in the war and killing Syrians with Assad's foreign militias only for their so called treaty with Assad to blow up in their faces recently

and about the whole US ally thing....
it was either them or a Nato ally and they kid themselves trying to believe that the US was actually really an ally with them instead of just using them for tactical means

So in the end their dream is likely going to die here... again but the main people to blame for it was themselves seeing as they closed all their doors

----

On another note there is this article discussing Turkey, Iran , Russia and Syria + all the current stuff that was going on between them

http://mebriefing.com/?p=2482

good read

 

[NyMartin90]

Syrian war: Turkey suffers first death in cross-border campaign

Turkey has suffered its first loss of life in an intensifying campaign in northern Syria, the military says.
A soldier was killed when Kurdish fighters fired on tanks. Kurdish media say three tanks were destroyed.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37205035

Things are escalating with the Kurds

Also found this online its pretty funny:

http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1472339908080.webm

 

[xenist]

The Kurdish militant nationalism genie ain't getting back into the bottle. If anyone thinks that a small stroll by the Turkish army and a little finger wagging by the US is going to stop the Kurds from having a nation they're wildly deluded. Especially after having kicked ISIS ass so convincingly. Unless the US while trying to please Turkey and Iraq manages to swap an islamist death cult for a heavily armed Marxist guerrilla army.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Who could have thought his would happen of you park a 50 year old tank on a hill in a warzone where everyone and their dog have modern anti tank missiles ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivi..._of_the_two_turkish_tanks_hit_and_destroy_by/

 

[DrFurbs]

How many countries are fighting in Syria now? Must be 6 or 7 at least.

 

[Kathian]

How many countries are fighting in Syria now? Must be 6 or 7 at least.

It's basically the modern Spanish civil war.

 

[Steeven]

How many countries are fighting in Syria now? Must be 6 or 7 at least.

Including those only performing air strikes? Around 18-19 countries. It seems a bit old-fashioned to only count nation-states though, what about the different nationalities within ISIS?

 

[Stereogatari]

It's basically the modern Spanish civil war.

That's exactly how I've started seeing it. Especially when you think about normal civilian people from the West going over to fight for different sides. That was a popular theme of the Spanish Civil War as well of course.

 

[The Hamburglar]

More attacks on Kurds I bet disguised as targeting Isis.

 

[Oriel]

Fucking ridiculous that the FSA and SDF are fighting each other when there's a whole swaith of ISIS territory between the Turkish border and Aleppo still to be liberated.

More attacks on Kurds I bet disguised as targeting Isis.

Nah, the Turks don't even bother hiding their attacks on Kurdish forces in Syria any more.