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[StreetsofBeige]

It is universally understood across the political spectrum, other than "Rule of Trump" Conservatives, that this policy of tariffs will damage the US economy and have ripple effects on all the intertwined economies. There will be fewer jobs, less growth, less US influence, and more uncertainty that subsequent administrations will have to repair.

A country cannot wage economic war or desire annexation of neighbouring nations and think it's going to be business as usual or in Americas favour going forward.

Nobody truly believes Trump will invade Canada or Greenland. It's his way of making a point.

As for tariffs, it cant be that bad. If other countries can do them at the US will skewed rates and be fine, why cant the US do it back? Doesn't seem to bother China, EU, Canada or India doing rates at the US.

 

[Rentahamster]

The world tech/medicine is where it's at because of the freedom offered by US.

Europe innovation barely has a pulse.

Don't discount the massive amounts of publicly funded American university research that private companies then buy the rights to. As well as the massive amounts of military technology and NASA technology that eventually get appropriated for civilian use.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Nobody truly believes Trump will invade Canada or Greenland. It's his way of making a point.

As for tariffs, it cant be that bad. If other countries can do them at the US will skewed rates and be fine, why cant the US do it back? Doesn't seem to bother China, EU, Canada or India doing rates at the US.

You've gone full on quisling, man. There's a free trade agreement between Canada and the USA. Any tariffs that exist were negotiated and agreed upon by Trump. The USA also has carve outs that tariff agriculture goods coming in from Canada under CUSMA/USMCA.

"The world's best negotiator" signed a deal that at the time he claimed was the "best deal ever" and now regrets it, so has torn it up under the false pretense of fentanyl flowing across the border.

 

[Atrus]

Nobody truly believes Trump will invade Canada or Greenland. It's his way of making a point.

As for tariffs, it cant be that bad. If other countries can do them at the US will skewed rates and be fine, why cant the US do it back? Doesn't seem to bother China, EU, Canada or India doing rates at the US.

His way of "making a point" results in reduced sales for American goods and less clout as a result. No trade agreement makes up for people choosing to avoid American products.

As for the tariffs, a lot of the information is highly nuanced and most people speaking on it are poorly informed and have no clue other than trusting Trump talking points.

Canada and the US already have free trade deals, the last negotiated by Trump himself, and while there are small areas (<3%) where there exist protectionist measures by both the US and Canada (specified quantities of US dairy vs. Canadian sugar), there are settlement mechanisms within the agreement.

Making up a lie like the major flow of Fentanyl coming across the border to wage an economic war and circumvent the legal resolution mechanisms of a free trade agreement is not the way a civilized country should operate.

 

[Toons]

Nobody truly believes Trump will invade Canada or Greenland. It's his way of making a point.

What point lmao?

As for tariffs, it cant be that bad. If other countries can do them at the US will skewed rates and be fine, why cant the US do it back? Doesn't seem to bother China, EU, Canada or India doing rates at the US.

China isn't actively attacking their own education system and generate product and workforce that is in demand the world over.

 

[Punished Miku]

What point lmao?

The US is crazy, dangerous, unpredictable and doesn't respect laws.

 

[ADiTAR]

Don't discount the massive amounts of publicly funded American university research that private companies then buy the rights to. As well as the massive amounts of military technology and NASA technology that eventually get appropriated for civilian use.

Research and Army tech is also funded by government in the rest of the world.

 

[Hookshot]

I doubt anything would happen but there are 3 nuclear powers in the Commonwealth should America attack Canada. And over 2.5 billion people.

South Africa got rid of their nukes

 

[XXL]

Avoid American products.

Avoiding American products?

Pretty much of the links in this thread used American products.

This site is probably hosted by an American Product.

Or maybe you're going to stop using Google, YouTube, X, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Instagram, Netflix, Disney, Steam, Windows and those American products.

 

[Illiterate Actual]

Sweeping claims, by that you mean the fundamentals of economics which continue to apply in large economies.


Thomas Sowell, Basic Economics:

Strangely familiar.

Clever, though, quoting the right-wing patron saint of "See we're not racist" and "Taxes and government spending = bad"

I did go and try to fact check (ChatGPT style) one of Trump's claims about US car manufacturers being ripped off by the EU and... he's right. 10% tariff vs 2.5%. And he likes to talk about how the VAT is also a tariff, to which he's roundly mocked "hurr durr VAT isn't a tariff", and indeed I was thinking much the same. But GPT pointed out that the VAT does get applied to the total value including the tariff, and that it's in the 19-25% range... so take 25% of the 10 percent and that already cancels the base tariff on the US side. Granted there's taxes on the other end that will get applied to the 2.5%, but they're a lower tax rate on a lower percentage to begin with... so the effective tariffs end up being something like 12+% vs 3%. So at least in select cases he's not wrong that we're getting ripped off. That doesn't mean I necessarily buy the beautiful vision of zero income taxes and a government entirely funded by tariffs though.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Avoiding American products?

Pretty much of the links in this thread used American products.

This site is probably hosted by an American Product.

Have you thought this through?

If the goal of tariffs is to affect consumer activity to onshore American industry, then tit for tat tariff wars will also affect consumer activity in the rest of the world. Not to mention that if the United States feels like it just can just unilaterally rip up trade agreements, the rest of the world will not feel obliged to respect American IP law. The WTO can bang its gavel as hard as it wants, but if the United States doesn't care then why should the rest of the world?

His way of "making a point" results in reduced sales for American goods and less clout as a result. No trade agreement makes up for people choosing to avoid American products.

As for the tariffs, a lot of the information is highly nuanced and most people speaking on it are poorly informed and have no clue other than trusting Trump talking points.

Canada and the US already have free trade deals, the last negotiated by Trump himself, and while there are small areas (<3%) where there exist protectionist measures by both the US and Canada (specified quantities of US dairy vs. Canadian sugar), there are settlement mechanisms within the agreement.

Making up a lie like the major flow of Fentanyl coming across the border to wage an economic war and circumvent the legal resolution mechanisms of a free trade agreement is not the way a civilized country should operate.

It's not just US dairy or Canadian sugar. The USA literally has the same 250% tariff rule against Canadian dairy under CUSMA that Canada does against USA dairy.

 

[Bojji]

Avoiding American products?

Pretty much of the links in this thread used American products.

This site is probably hosted by an American Product.

Or maybe you're going to stop using Google, YouTube, X, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Instagram, Netflix, Disney, Steam, Windows and those American products.

That would be amazing (I would miss YT, Steam and Windows for gaming).

Of course others would fill the void, just like in china.

 

[XXL]

That would be amazing

What do you mean would be amazing?

Nothing is stopping you from doing it now if you feel that strongly about it.

Be sure to avoid playing games using Unreal Engine though. Lol.

 

[Bojji]

What do you mean would be amazing?

Nothing is stopping you from doing it now if you feel that strongly about it.

Be sure to avoid playing games using Unreal Engine though. Lol.

I'm using few things you listed because they are so popular that there is no real choice. But once those things would be banned (or themselves move away from the market) their competition would replace them.

 

[Illiterate Actual]

You sound like someone who'd support this unironically

Well yeah if we could get that bill through then you could finally get the mental help you so desperately need.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Be sure to avoid playing games using Unreal Engine though. Lol.

Once my new best friend Xi Jinping fully absorbs epic games I won't need to

 

[YCoCg]

Well yeah if we could get that bill through then you could finally get the mental help you so desperately need.

"You"?

 

[Illiterate Actual]

"You"?

Apologies. I meant "you people"

 

[YCoCg]

Apologies. I meant "you people"

Hell I respect the hustle, classify anyone against Trump as having a mental illness, then pass another law forbidding people with mental illness from voting. Boom, Trump third term locked down.

 

[Rentahamster]

Research and Army tech is also funded by government in the rest of the world.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your words, but I don't think that's a rebuttal to what I said (if it's supposed to be).

 

[DavidGzz]

I think the stock crashing is deserved for being overvalued.

But FSD does look quite promising. Waymo and others are based on LiDAR which does not scale. (Cars interfering with each other). It is the right way to go vision / AI only.

Check this out:

I can't believe that many people thought it was wrong for the car to utilize the middle turning lane to wait for a gap in traffic when turning left. I have to do that almost daily.

 

[XXL]

Once my new best friend Xi Jinping fully absorbs epic games I won't need to

I'm sure they'll put their 5+ million slaves to work, along with children and they be sure to install netting around the buildings for good measure.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Source article here:

Exclusive | Deranged anti-Elon Musk dad scrawls swastika on NYC Cybertruck in broad daylight — leaving Jewish owner stunned: ‘I feel myself burning inside’

A deranged, anti-Elon Musk dad scrawled a swastika on the side of a Cybertruck in Brooklyn in a brazen, bigoted attack committed right in front of The Post.

nypost.com

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[DeafTourette]

Source article here:

Exclusive | Deranged anti-Elon Musk dad scrawls swastika on NYC Cybertruck in broad daylight — leaving Jewish owner stunned: ‘I feel myself burning inside’

A deranged, anti-Elon Musk dad scrawled a swastika on the side of a Cybertruck in Brooklyn in a brazen, bigoted attack committed right in front of The Post.

nypost.com

I doubt they knew he was Jewish... Just saw a Tesla and did that (still deranged) swastika spray paint

 

[Atrus]

Avoiding American products?

Pretty much of the links in this thread used American products.

This site is probably hosted by an American Product.

Or maybe you're going to stop using Google, YouTube, X, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Instagram, Netflix, Disney, Steam, Windows and those American products.

The US doesn't just export technology services.

In the short-term it will be foods, feeds and beverages, autos, textiles, industrial supplies, consumer goods, and travel that people can choose to easily avoid by going with a non-American alternative. It translates to fewer jobs for Americans, less growth for American businesses and this all has a knock on negative effect to the US economy at large.

 

[EviLore]

 

[ProtoByte]

Look at a graph for income inequality since 1975. Its way more than a 2% gain like you're claiming here and everyone knows it.

I don't really care about income inequality, and I haven't made any claims about it one way or another. People act like it just happens, no responsibility on behalf of the people who make one amount of money or another.

We will have our first trillionaire soon if we don't put the brakes on this. We could have the top 1% paying 100% of all taxes and it would just mean that everyone else is too poor to meaningfully contribute.

No, it would mean the tax code wills it such.
You're also failing to recognize that assuring that 50% of the population pays less than 5% of the income tax base (to say nothing of self employment, sales, capital gains, or property taxes) and can run off gibbs, you're incentivizing them to stay in that socio-economic band.

If income is spread a bit more evenly, people can pay more into taxes.

The income was pretty evenly distributed in the Soviet Union. Even spread doesn't matter. The trough does. The country's trough is nowhere near as bad as it is elsewhere.

You have to understand that without the high earning minority that the US has, the bottom would be even lower down. And you don't keep that high earning minority by clamping down with excessive taxation and penalties.

Your point about investing is fine but they have plenty to invest already. It definitely generates economic activity if normal people aren't dying and have money to buy things. Thats where basically all small business comes from.

The vast majority of the billionaire and prospective trillionaire class' wealth IS investment. Locked up in keeping businesses running and people employed.

And "normal people" are not dying and are spending plenty of money. Give me a break.

That doesn't mean I necessarily buy the beautiful vision of zero income taxes and a government entirely funded by tariffs though.

It's definitely a ridiculous proposition. Autarchy never works, it's just a fantasy that falls into Trump's annoying behavioural tendencies.

 

[ADiTAR]

this is where it ends.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[LegendOfKage]

this is where it ends.

Would that be Canada's action or the website? Because I would think the latter wouldn't want to limit their use when it would cost them money, and if the Canadian government forcibly blocked a privately owned company from making their service available elsewhere, I would think that would be pretty authoritarian. Are there those who would cheer such a move? How would they feel if the US blocked you tube in every other country? I would find that extremely authoritarian, and I would not agree with that at all.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Would that be Canada's action or the website? Because I would think the latter wouldn't want to limit their use when it would cost them money, and if the Canadian government forcibly blocked a privately owned company from making their service available elsewhere, I would think that would be pretty authoritarian. Are there those who would cheer such a move? How would they feel if the US blocked you tube in every other country? I would find that extremely authoritarian, and I would not agree with that at all.

It's a joke based on a viral Instagram video. No one is blocking pornhub.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[Atrus]

Would that be Canada's action or the website? Because I would think the latter wouldn't want to limit their use when it would cost them money, and if the Canadian government forcibly blocked a privately owned company from making their service available elsewhere, I would think that would be pretty authoritarian. Are there those who would cheer such a move? How would they feel if the US blocked you tube in every other country? I would find that extremely authoritarian, and I would not agree with that at all.

You don't agree with export controls and sanctions?

 

[The Sum of Zero]

But access is already blocked in my state (because of some age-verification shit)...

 

[P:axMagellanic]

Have you thought this through?

If the goal of tariffs is to affect consumer activity to onshore American industry, then tit for tat tariff wars will also affect consumer activity in the rest of the world. Not to mention that if the United States feels like it just can just unilaterally rip up trade agreements, the rest of the world will not feel obliged to respect American IP law. The WTO can bang its gavel as hard as it wants, but if the United States doesn't care then why should the rest of the world?



It's not just US dairy or Canadian sugar. The USA literally has the same 250% tariff rule against Canadian dairy under CUSMA that Canada does against USA dairy.

You're talking to some magic soil, American exceptionalist there. The current world is based off an 89 years old post war dividend that's steadily and naturally eroded over time as it would, but has also been carefully and skillfully maintained for as long as possible by intelligent policy and alliance building.

At least the libs are getting owned.

 

[rm082e]

But access is already blocked in my state (because of some age-verification shit)...

Same here. VPN to the rescue.

 

[SentientStone]

Kind of ashamed as a Canadian to not know this little tidbit about God's gift to mankind.

 

[IDKFA]

The world tech/medicine is where it's at because of the freedom offered by US.

Europe innovation barely has a pulse.

that's an oversimplification if I've ever seen one.

The U.S. absolutely plays a massive role in tech and medical innovation, however Europe isn't as stagnant as you suggest. Germany and Switzerland are leaders in medical devices and pharmaceuticals, the U.K. is strong in biotech, greentech from Sweden and the Netherlands etc.

I agree that some nations in Europe, especially those tied to the overly bureaucratic and undemocratic EU, but dismissing Europe entirely ignores some of the world-class research and breakthroughs happening here.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

overly bureaucratic and undemocratic EU

Ypu understand European Parliament members get elected by the citizens of the EU?

 

[CSJ]

The world tech/medicine is where it's at because of the freedom offered by US.

Europe innovation barely has a pulse.

Tell that to ASML for one.

 

[IDKFA]

Ypu understand European Parliament members get elected by the citizens of the EU?

Sure do.

I also understand that The European Commission, which proposes and enforces laws, is not directly elected by EU citizens. Instead, it's appointed by national governments. The European Council (heads of state of member countries) makes major decisions, but citizens don't vote for it directly. The only directly elected EU institution is the European Parliament, but it can't propose legislation—only approve, amend, or reject laws made by the Commission.

What about EU law? The EU operates on the principle of "supremacy", meaning that when there is a conflict between EU law and national law, EU law takes precedence. I'm pretty sure Poland recently challenged this supremacy, arguing that Polish law—including its constitution—should be the highest authority in the country. The EU rejected this and withheld billions of euros in funding to Poland as punishment.

Oh and voter turnout to EU elections is famously low.

Maybe we should take the rest of this on PM messages as well.

 

[FullMetalx117]

The easiest checkmate the EU can do is have Novo Norodisk stop the ozempic supply to the U.S.

 

[Goalus]

Reminds me of myself when I ordered the Harry Potter saga for €160 after video game journalists and activists called for the boycott of Hogwarts Legacy.

I could see myself buying a Tesla for the same reason, but my concern would be that my car is in danger then of being destroyed be left-wing extremists.

 

[Toons]

Imagine admitting you handed another man tens of thousands of dollars to spite stranger

Also love that the assumption is that of youre against musk you must be left

Like he hasn't spearheaded the firing of thousands of workers from all political walks of life. Tribalism will make you just conjure up things in your own head and accept it as fact

 

[Punished Miku]

Imagine admitting you handed another man tens of thousands of dollars to spite strangers

We just have to convince everyone we hate health care, corporate taxes and environmental regulations and they'll rush to do the opposite. We've been going about this all wrong.

 

[Lunarorbit]

Imagine admitting you handed another man tens of thousands of dollars to spite stranger

Also love that the assumption is that of youre against musk you must be left

Like he hasn't spearheaded the firing of thousands of workers from all political walks of life. Tribalism will make you just conjure up things in your own head and accept it as fact

The Republicans have been against any renewables for decades. They've blocked development for so many years that now the Chinese are leaders in ev.

And I'm supposed to believe that poor Republicans in the south are gonna buy a $100,000 tesla? Tesla was big in California and the northeast which are all predominantly democratic.

Teslas gonna continue to crater. Trump will throw money at them now that musk is giving trump $100 million. It'll only float that company for so long.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Sure do.

I also understand that The European Commission, which proposes and enforces laws, is not directly elected by EU citizens. Instead, it's appointed by national governments. The European Council (heads of state of member countries) makes major decisions, but citizens don't vote for it directly. The only directly elected EU institution is the European Parliament, but it can't propose legislation—only approve, amend, or reject laws made by the Commission.

What about EU law? The EU operates on the principle of "supremacy", meaning that when there is a conflict between EU law and national law, EU law takes precedence. I'm pretty sure Poland recently challenged this supremacy, arguing that Polish law—including its constitution—should be the highest authority in the country. The EU rejected this and withheld billions of euros in funding to Poland as punishment.

Oh and voter turnout to EU elections is famously low.

Maybe we should take the rest of this on PM messages as well.

Point no. 1 - this is exactly the same as the US President nominating people for cabinet positions, they are also not elected. Very rarely if ever you will have a 100% direct democracy.

Point no. 2 - EU rightfully challenged Poland. You join the EU you get money but also have obligations. Eastern European countries forgot EU was born as a political project, instead they thought it will be a free ATM. There are still multiple areas where the EU doesn't get involved e.g. abortion.

 

[segasonic]

The easiest checkmate the EU can do is have Novo Norodisk stop the ozempic supply to the U.S.

There is a product by Eli Lilly that is just as good.

 

[IDKFA]

Point no. 1 - this is exactly the same as the US President nominating people for cabinet positions, they are also not elected. Very rarely if ever you will have a 100% direct democracy.

I get your point, but I'm not in the US. That's a totally different conversation.

Point no. 2 - EU rightfully challenged Poland. You join the EU you get money but also have obligations. Eastern European countries forgot EU was born as a political project, instead they thought it will be a free ATM. There are still multiple areas where the EU doesn't get involved e.g. abortion.

No EU nation is getting free money. They're paying into the budget. This shouldn't mean that EU laws supercede national laws. EU member nations should be sovereign. I think that's even more important for Poland given their history.

It's not quite true that the EU was born as a political project. It started as an economic project with the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) in 1951 and then the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1957.

I wouldn't say it became truly a political unity until the Maastricht Treaty of 1993 that established the European Union.