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TV's Vs Monitors, and Why TV's Make Much More Sense for Next Gen Consoles

KURDISTAN YPG

KURDISTAN YPG

Member
ok people with x900h

i have just gone to the sony site and looked up the xbr 75x900h

so it says you can update it twice 2 ways view scan for firmware update or do it manually thro usb
theres not with " view firmware update" that sometimes your tv might indicate you have latest update but is actually not there.
so im doing usb way atm.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
rofif said:
Dear god...
I have 3080.... so now I MUST get this... but they don't seem available in Poland anyway. I will get a damn loan but it's not available!
Also, I noticed it only has hdmi. Does freesync work over hdmi with nvidia? I think not ?
Click to expand...

HDMI 2.1 is superior to DP 1.4 (48Gbps vs 32.4Gbps). But the CX is capped at 40Gbps, better go for C9 for the 48Gbps bandwidth for Ampere. For Xbox Series X you're totally fine as it's also 40Gbps. PS5 is still unknown, but can see them going 48Gbps especially for the Tempest 3D Audio that eats up to 20GB/s bandwidth internally.
 
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onesvenus

onesvenus

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
HDMI 2.1 is superior to DP 1.4 (48Gbps vs 32.4Gbps). But the CX is capped at 40Gbps, better go for C9 for the 48Gbps bandwidth for Ampere. For Xbox Series X you're totally fine as it's also 40Gbps. PS5 is still uknown, but can see them going 48Gbps especially for the Tempest 3D Audio that eats up to 20GB/s bandwidth internally.
Click to expand...
Come on Bo, you are better than this.
3D audio will be encoded in some existing codec when output via HDMI, most likely Dolby Atmos or DTS-HD, which are completely fine to be used in 40Gbps in 4k/120fps.

In fact, the only way to reach 48Gbps using HDMI 2.1 is using 4K at 120fps and 12 bit colors. Taking into account that these TV panels are 10bit, you won't ever need the full 48Gbps on these televisions.

BTW, I just wanted to share this review of the Sony X900H I found today. A friend of mine has just bought one and he told me that the HDR was not as good as the one in my LG CX so I started digging for info and was the first one I found. I hope it's useful to the folks who are still looking to get a TV. Spoiler: Although in this forum seems like whatever Sony touches is amazing, it's what you pay for, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
onesvenus said:
Come on Bo, you are better than this.
3D audio will be encoded in some existing codec when output via HDMI, most likely Dolby Atmos or DTS-HD, which are completely fine to be used in 40Gbps in 4k/120fps.

In fact, the only way to reach 48Gbps using HDMI 2.1 is using 4K at 120fps and 12 bit colors. Taking into account that these TV panels are 10bit, you won't ever need the full 48Gbps on these televisions.

BTW, I just wanted to share this review of the Sony X900H I found today. A friend of mine has just bought one and he told me that the HDR was not as good as the one in my LG CX so I started digging for info and was the first one I found. I hope it's useful to the folks who are still looking to get a TV. Spoiler: Although in this forum seems like whatever Sony touches is amazing, it's what you pay for, nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...

That's only a speculation from my end, don't really know. But PS5's 3D won't use any Dolby Atmos or proprietary tech as clearly stated by Mark Cerny in the Road to PS5. My guess would be lossless LPCM for games supporting Tempest 3D Audio, and universal 7.1 channel for games that don't while devs might get to use half of the tempest 3D audio engine for other computations to offload from both the GPU/CPU even while fully utilizing it for HRTF-based 3D audio.

I personally didn't expect X900H HDR performance to beat neither C9 nor CX as its peak brightness isn't significantly higher than both, around 700-nits, and OLED have that organic look that's hard to beat. To get close enough would be great, actually. What's being criticized for HDR here are Samsungs in game mode, but some members with first had experience have addressed that it's possible to fix it by tweaking the settings.

But X900H still has massive edge over C9 and CX in terms of motion processing and burn-in immunity, and most color/picture accurate out of the box without further calibration.

There is no perfect tv, each has its flaws. People are liking X900H because it's offering more than what its pricetag suggests, which is a great welcome during such times. Thank you for your input.

gunslikewhoa said:
Same. I did mine last night. VRR will be here soon, hopefully.
Click to expand...

What size do you have?
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
gunslikewhoa said:
Heh. Thanks! I never read the OP until you mentioned this just now. 😊😊😊
Click to expand...

Well, be ready as I put you all there so members may tag you and ask questions as you have own one and would have better experience and probably add things aren't mentioned in reviews ;) I'm getting the same size later, got lots of must-pay stuff right now.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
mansoor1980 said:
dumb question..y dont tvs have 1440p native res
Click to expand...

All of the new ones seem to have, but they're not native, upscaled to 4K, which is not a bad thing. Upscaling performance varies from tv/brand to another, but most of the great upscaling while Sony is still regarded as the best in the business and best processors in general. Differences would be pretty minor when we're talking about LG/Samsung/Sony.
 
A

Ashtyr

Neo Member
onesvenus said:
Come on Bo, you are better than this.
3D audio will be encoded in some existing codec when output via HDMI, most likely Dolby Atmos or DTS-HD, which are completely fine to be used in 40Gbps in 4k/120fps.

In fact, the only way to reach 48Gbps using HDMI 2.1 is using 4K at 120fps and 12 bit colors. Taking into account that these TV panels are 10bit, you won't ever need the full 48Gbps on these televisions.

BTW, I just wanted to share this review of the Sony X900H I found today. A friend of mine has just bought one and he told me that the HDR was not as good as the one in my LG CX so I started digging for info and was the first one I found. I hope it's useful to the folks who are still looking to get a TV. Spoiler: Although in this forum seems like whatever Sony touches is amazing, it's what you pay for, nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...


In my modest opinion the XH90 if it weren't from SONY it would have gone pretty unnoticed. Her greatest achievement is having HDMI 2.1, nothing more.

Its mediocre level of nits prevents it from shining, never better said, in HDR. It also doesn't have really high contrast, nor does it stand out on anything in particular.

The SONY XH90 is in my opinion a good TV, if you find it at a low price, excessively praised for being SONY and having HDMI 2.1. I consider the samsung Q80T superior and the best buy, and if its for cinema the XH95 staying within the 2020 LEDS and more or less in a similar price range
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Ashtyr said:
In my modest opinion the XH90 if it weren't from SONY it would have gone pretty unnoticed. Her greatest achievement is having HDMI 2.1, nothing more.

Its mediocre level of nits prevents it from shining, never better said, in HDR. It also doesn't have really high contrast, nor does it stand out on anything in particular.

The SONY XH90 is in my opinion a good TV, if you find it at a low price, excessively praised for being SONY and having HDMI 2.1. I consider the samsung Q80T superior and the best buy, and if its for cinema the XH95 staying within the 2020 LEDS and more or less in a similar price range
Click to expand...

Honestly speaking, LG C9/CX are excessively praised while the vast majority of reviews aren't giving 24-30fps stutter performance true coverage, which is pretty critical issue for games running at 30fps, and probably the most vocal ones about hating 30fps gaming are using OLED's that amplify the problem.

Q80T has ghosting effect and had gimped image quality with HDR at game mode in favor of input lag, let's say Q90T instead. If you read through the pages we've done a lot about this matter. If you're going to get XSX then you also need to reconsider that Samsung has no Dolby Vision.
 
A

Ashtyr

Neo Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Honestly speaking, LG C9/CX are excessively praised while the vast majority of reviews aren't giving 24-30fps stutter performance true coverage, which is pretty critical issue for games running at 30fps, and probably the most vocal ones about hating 30fps gaming are using OLED's that amplify the problem.

Q80T has ghosting effect and had gimped image quality with HDR at game mode in favor of input lag, let's say Q90T instead. If you read through the pages we've done a lot about this matter. If you're going to get XSX then you also need to reconsider that Samsung has no Dolby Vision.
Click to expand...


well I was talking about the SONY XH90 and the Q80T for being of the same range, the oled has its own problems, but I don't think they are relevant right now.

About ghosting in the Qleds of 2020 and 2019, it was fixed a long time ago by firmware, specifically this one, which also added the filmmaker mode in the 2020 Qleds


minute 3:53



About the horrible game mode ... I thought it was clear from the back when I talked about the q90R, that it is exactly the same as any Qled.

Anyway, you can compare them on RTINGS , or watch videos of people playing on the Q80T on a multitude of yotube channels
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
onesvenus said:
Then how come you were talking about PS5 using the full HDMI 2.1 48Gbps?
Click to expand...

Guessing, as Mark Cerny said the Tempest 3D AudioTech could take up to 20GB/s of bandwidth, which is 80Gbps internally, then preserving as much details in a lossless LPCM form could need that extra bandwidth. For example, at 4K@120Hz the X900H doesn't support Dolby Vision, something similar happens on another tv suggests that 48Gbps might not be as enough as people would think, according to lately posted HDTVtest video.

It's not a fact or anything, and I'm also not sure if it'll be the same experience if used without that #3 HDMI input that packs eARC. It's an amateur educated guess, going by PS5 feature set of wifi6, 3x 10Gbps USB's, and Bluetooth 5.1 I think they might use 48Gbps bandwidth.

For that same regard, I guess PS5 might not support Dolby Vision, but only HDR10. Could be wrong, could be updated in a firmware in the future as well. Nothing official/solid.

My post was 100% clear to understand:

HDMI 2.1 is superior to DP 1.4 (48Gbps vs 32.4Gbps). But the CX is capped at 40Gbps, better go for C9 for the 48Gbps bandwidth for Ampere. For Xbox Series X you're totally fine as it's also 40Gbps. PS5 is still unknown, but can see them going 48Gbps especially for the Tempest 3D Audio that eats up to 20GB/s bandwidth internally.
 
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onesvenus

onesvenus

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Guessing, as Mark Cerny said the Tempest 3D AudioTech could take up to 20GB/s of bandwidth, which is 80Gbps internally, then preserving as much details in a lossless LPCM form could need that extra bandwidth.
Click to expand...
Wait.
We have three possible scenarios. Either the Tempest Audio is sent lossless via LPCM or it's sent encoded in some existing codec or it's sent encoded in a new codec.
In scenario 1, we have that HDMI supports 32 LPCM audio channels at a maximum of 24 bits at a 1536 kHz frequency. That gives around 1Gbps to transmit that audio.
In scenario 2, even if that audio is encoded in Atmos transmitted using Dolby True HD, that only uses around 40Mbps.
In scenario 3, if Sony decides to create a new codec, it won't matter if TVs get the full HDMI 2.1 48Gbps of bandwidth or not because TVs won't be able to decode it (unless there's a highly unlikely update because codec decompression is usually done in hardware) and if they only do audio passthrough, you'll need a non yet existing receiver to decompress it.

Do you see now why it makes no sense for you to keep talking about Tempest Audio taking 20GB/s?

The much more likely scenario is that they either send LPCM or they use some high resolution codec encoded in Dolby TrueHD or similar. Which will make no difference whatsoever after the marketing talk. The Tempest 3D audio tech is meant to be a big improvement to people who game with headphones but I'd bet money that it does nothing for people with an already good surround sound.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
onesvenus said:
Wait.
We have three possible scenarios. Either the Tempest Audio is sent lossless via LPCM or it's sent encoded in some existing codec or it's sent encoded in a new codec.
In scenario 1, we have that HDMI supports 32 LPCM audio channels at a maximum of 24 bits at a 1536 kHz frequency. That gives around 1Gbps to transmit that audio.
In scenario 2, even if that audio is encoded in Atmos transmitted using Dolby True HD, that only uses around 40Mbps.
In scenario 3, if Sony decides to create a new codec, it won't matter if TVs get the full HDMI 2.1 48Gbps of bandwidth or not because TVs won't be able to decode it (unless there's a highly unlikely update because codec decompression is usually done in hardware) and if they only do audio passthrough, you'll need a non yet existing receiver to decompress it.

Do you see now why it makes no sense for you to keep talking about Tempest Audio taking 20GB/s?

The much more likely scenario is that they either send LPCM or they use some high resolution codec encoded in Dolby TrueHD or similar. Which will make no difference whatsoever after the marketing talk. The Tempest 3D audio tech is meant to be a big improvement to people who game with headphones but I'd bet money that it does nothing for people with an already good surround sound.
Click to expand...

Well, I've been using headsets only since 2007, and that only makes me feel better, and that matters more actually. We should get more details soon anyway.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
MaestroMike said:
Which games/types of games are going to be inferior on OLED compared to the Sony LED?
Click to expand...

None visually, only OLED stutter at 24-30fps could be bad for 30fps games due to the extremely fast response time in OLED's. There is no clean cut, you pick the tv that you can endure its negatives.
 
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Dthomp

Dthomp

Member
R6Rider said:
Just placed an order for the TCL 6 Series (R635) 55"

Doesn't have HDMI 2.1, but has the features I wanted from it and couldn't care less about 4k at 120hz especially at the distance I'll be. Can't beat the price for quality according to almost everyone who has reviewed or tested one. It will be my first TV I've bought in 10 years and a huge upgrade over my monitor I currently use.
Click to expand...

Any chance to get a review of this tv from ya? My BB has a couple of these left and for the price it seems like a worthy buy since I don't want to go over a grand on a TV and this hits most of the things I need for next gen
 
R6Rider

R6Rider

Gold Member
Dthomp said:
Any chance to get a review of this tv from ya? My BB has a couple of these left and for the price it seems like a worthy buy since I don't want to go over a grand on a TV and this hits most of the things I need for next gen
Click to expand...

Sure. I'm no TV expert and this is my first 4K TV and first TV with HDR, but here are my thoughts on the 55". Also note, that I haven't calibrated mine at all, only messed with the settings a little bit.

Starting off with gaming mode, since that's what I mostly use it for and I have to say it's been great so far. The TV will automatically switch to gaming mode once you start your console up. Gaming mode has it's own presets which are pretty good, but you can adjust color temperature, brightness, color/tint, and a few other things to your liking. The response time is about 20ms in gaming mode and coming from a 27" monitor I haven't noticed it at all.

HDR in games is largely dependent on how you calibrate each game which is usually done in the game itself (a few PS4 games use the system settings such as Ghost of Tsushima). I've played Ghosts of Tsushima, CoD Warzone, inFamous: Second Son, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, and a few other titles in HDR and they look great once set correctly.

The HDR itself blew me away when I first saw it. The very first thing I did with the TV was watch some HDR videos on Youtube, and then on Amazon Prime. This TV has amazing blacks and peak brightness is among the best. Some shows or movies might be too black in some areas and compared to higher end TVs there was a bit more crushed blacks/loss of details, but nothing major.

Other Stuff: The looks of the TV are good, pretty thin bezel and a gloss back section. The legs are firm and sturdy and have cable management slots built into them. Sound for TVs in general is bad, but this TV actually has ok sound. Roku built in is great for quickly watching movies and shows. Uniformity was pretty good based on several tests I did. Color banding isn't the best, but it's rarely noticeable and isn't any worse than my previous TV or monitor.

Overall I'm super happy with this TV, and I did lots of research on it and watched many videos. It's even better in some areas than the more expensive models out there. Honestly I don't think there's a better TV for this value out there. Are there Sony and Samsung models that are better? Yes, but not for the prices you pay in comparison. If you want some more info with some visual comparisons, there are some great videos that compare this tv with similar priced ones and even higher end models.

Also Note: I haven't had a chance to test out VRR yet, or any game with 120hz. I also haven't tested any sports beyond some TV tests on YouTube, but it does have settings like action smoothing, action clarity, and black pixel insertion which can be on or off.

When I do some 120hz gaming on it, I'll edit this post.
 
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RasAlGhoul

RasAlGhoul

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
None visually, only OLED stutter at 24-30fps could be bad for 30fps games due to the extremely fast response time in OLED's. There is no clean cut, you pick the tv that you can endure its negatives.
Click to expand...

This is very true. There is no perfect TV. I owned an OLED for years. The stutter wasn’t worth the contrast for me. Switched to the Sony X900H and while the pq isn’t as good it’s still 90% as good. And no stutter so 30fps games look a million times better. Plus no concerns over image retention or burn in. Though I never had burn in on my B6. Plenty of IR though.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
RasAlGhoul said:
This is very true. There is no perfect TV. I owned an OLED for years. The stutter wasn’t worth the contrast for me. Switched to the Sony X900H and while the pq isn’t as good it’s still 90% as good. And no stutter so 30fps games look a million times better. Plus no concerns over image retention or burn in. Though I never had burn in on my B6. Plenty of IR though.
Click to expand...

Indeed, people need to concentrate on that features matter the most for them. If you're a PC gamer it's a very tricky one, as LG C9/CX seem like the perfect tv's for you, yet you have plenty of static bars/images that could cause a problem overtime. LG Nano90 LCD is also a valid choice for a PC gamer. For console gamers I would rather stick to C9/CX/X900H.
 
bronk

bronk

Banned
On that x900 update. People are saying 2.1 is only in two hdmi ports. Im assuming its port 1 and 2? Weird they wouldn't mention this in the update notes on the tv.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
bonk64 said:
On that x900 update. People are saying 2.1 is only in two hdmi ports. Im assuming its port 1 and 2? Weird they wouldn't mention this in the update notes on the tv.
Click to expand...

3 and 4. On Samsung there is only one but not sure which one, on LG C9/CX all 4 of them.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
bonk64 said:
Cool thanks for the heads up.
Click to expand...

If you look at the 3+4 ports, you'll find them shinier than 1+2 as well. Also it's confirmed that it's using full 48Gbps bandwidth. Current update covers just 4K@120Hz, VRR/ALLM to be released later during "Winter" 2020.

At 4K@120Hz it doesn't support Dolby Vision.
 
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PSX

PSX

Member
I love this but... Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem





Gigabyte g32qc 1440p 165fps support and freesync 32" monitor sitting from my desk about 3-4 feets away it does look big enough and very sharp but I kinda worried about not having 2.1 miss out on features or it doesn't matter for 1440p?

recording it from my iPhone lol
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
PSX said:
I love this but... Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem





Gigabyte g32qc 1440p 165fps support and freesync 32" monitor sitting from my desk about 3-4 feets away it does look big enough and very sharp but I kinda worried about not having 2.1 miss out on features or it doesn't matter for 1440p?

recording it from my iPhone lol
Click to expand...


If you're fine with it, that all what matters, trust me. If you skip this year, you'll even have better choices by next year. So nothing to rush. You can try it an see how it reacts if you like it or not, you can can use HDMI 2.1 to DP 1.4 adapter at least.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
If you look at the 3+4 ports, you'll find them shinier than 1+2 as well. Also it's confirmed that it's using full 48Gbps bandwidth. Current update covers just 4K@120Hz, VRR/ALLM to be released later during "Winter" 2020.

At 4K@120Hz it doesn't support Dolby Vision.
Click to expand...
Its not needed and the full 48gbs won't be unlocked until the Android 11 update.

Thats why we are only getting 4K/120 at this time.

Good news is the X900H is one of the only tv's to have the full 48gbs.
 
PSX

PSX

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
If you're fine with it, that all what matters, trust me. If you skip this year, you'll even have better choices by next year. So nothing to rush. You can try it an see how it reacts if you like it or not, you can can use HDMI 2.1 to DP 1.4 adapter at least.
Click to expand...

already have 65" Sony TV 2017 model, I am getting 70" TV for the living room later on but I will have to wait for a bit longer , but like the setup with PC, Switch, PS5. everything in one spot :messenger_grinning_sweat:

4e40cd500cdd99e918f62346e04aae41.gif
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
PSX said:
wasn't paying attention just yet for TVs I didn't know 70" sizes not much available in market, 5" more won't make a difference I found this the LG 75NANO85UNA beautiful! any idea?
Click to expand...

I personally don't like LG Nanocell tv's. If it's for consoles go for X900H. If you wanna use it for PC as well then check if that has the same Freesync/G-Sync like Nano90.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
PSX said:
wasn't paying attention just yet for TVs I didn't know 70" sizes not much available in market, 5" more won't make a difference I found this the LG 75NANO85UNA beautiful! any idea?
Click to expand...
For gaming I can't recommend a better TV than the Sony x900h for the best price performance combo.

They currently are on sale which is another plus.
 
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