Oops, thanks! Was looking for that interview
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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End
- Thread starter Joqu
- Start date
Oops, thanks! Was looking for that interview
InaudibleWhispa
Member
Can't say why for sure, but Cooper seemed to expect to be in the earlier timeframe (I'm guessing 1989). He stares at the modern hotel with confusion & concern. He says Carrie Page is a "girl" called Laura Palmer, not a woman. And of course "What year is this?". My guess is the skip to the present caused Laura and Diane to be consumed by their new identities. Perhaps there's an internal battle happening within Cooper, even if he isn't consciously aware of it, to keep hold of his identity and attempt his plan, adding to his confusion and his muted personality.
He seems to follow this plan based on instinct rather than determination; stumbling across Judy's Cafe, looking at it, then looking down, then looking back as if he's remembering. He knows to ask about the waitress, and he knows it's Laura, but he's caught off guard by her age and her lack of memory (same with the Palmer house inhabitants). He knows something is wrong, and the motel time skip has to be it. As for why Judy might be trying to prevent Cooper from saving Laura and taking her to Sarah:
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Man, "The World Spins" is so hard to listen to after the finale. It's just so fucking heavy.
plagiarize
Banned
I can see Mr C further victimising her.
Yes that make sense. Thanks. I like the Judy/Sarah, pain theory
Death Metalist
Member
Most puzzling shot in the entire season
giancarlo123x
Banned
I finally watched this last night and this fucking murdered me. I really hope they can pull a fourth season off.11,3 meg gif incoming.
Most puzzling shot in the entire season
He should have been dead. Doop shot right at his head. More evidence of the dream logic of that part I guess. One of the good guys escapes certain death.
plagiarize
Banned
That is what happened yes, to pass on to Harry.
So I was thinking today and I'm trying to remember if Mr. C ever killed anyone who was actually innocent. All the kills I can think of were people who were criminals in one way or another.
I don't recall ben ever handing thay key off.
I don't recall ben ever handing thay key off.
It's apparently Clint Eastwood's daughter
The scene definitely took place at the Great Northern, when Truman told Ben that Richard killed someone.
It sounds very similar, like playing it forwards and backwards amounts to the same thing.
Chills at the credit scene. Both 17 and 18 knocked it out of the park in that department.
I think my absolute favorite part of watching this live, is drawing my own conclusions. It's not like watching Mulholland Drive fifteen years later, being a little confused, having some idea, googling for the answer that you agree with most, and going 'yeah I guess that's it.'
I love this ending so much you guys.
I love this ending so much you guys.
Most puzzling shot in the entire season
Honestly what is going on there. When I saw that I thought it meant he had been shot in the head.
Airola
Member
I've been writing about a theory like this several time in this thread, but I'd like to elaborate it a bit.
I imagine a thing like this might've happened at some point:
Mike sits on a chair in the White(?) Lodge.
The Giant / Fireman: "Remember Phillip (and Leland)."
It was important for Mike to find Phillip Gerard and use his body, and stay close to him. And he might've been asked to remember Leland too (like Cooper was not just asked to remember Richard but Linda too) to be able proceed on his mission set up by the Fireman.
And just as Phillip Gerard ended up using haloperidol to suppress Mike's access to him, I'm sure if Season 4 happens, there will be this Richard character using haloperidol too to treat schizophrenia (keeping Cooper away).
Mike is from another reality. He had his own reality where he lived in. And our reality was probably very strange to him at first too. And maybe he at first also thought he was himself in this strange reality and just later realized he is already actually using a man named Phillip Gerard.
Now Cooper is in the same situation. He has been put in a different reality, strange to him, but he still thinks he is in his own reality. And he found where Laura is, but currently it's just Carrie, perhaps under the influence of haloperidol. He is able to see "the true face" of Laura in Carrie though.
Maybe the Laura orb the Fireman sent to earth was him sending Laura in that other reality as a spirit. Maybe that was the moment when Laura ended up being in Carrie. He sent Laura to earth, but that doesn't have to mean it was about him sending Laura from his dimension to our world. It could be that when Laura's spirit in the Lodge disappeared, it happened because The Fireman made the orb. He sucked Laura into the orb and sent the spirit to the world, but not into our reality on it, but into another.
And what comes to Cooper's Mr. C'ish actions, maybe the spirit version that walks around the world always contains both sides of the person instead of one being in the lead. It's like with Mike when it might've not been always clear if he's malevolent or benevolent. His laughs in Season 2's scene where he says "he's as real as you and I" didn't sound like a laugh a nice person would do. And in the script of FWWM he actually shouts to Bob while he is killing Laura that "It's his own daughter you are killing" and laughs after that. So maybe he was supposed to be this mish-mash of a good and a sinister person. And maybe that's what Cooper in episode 18 was. He's now Mr. C and Cooper fully mixed together. The good side no longer calls the shots nor does the bad side. Both tendencies of him can easily come out when certain situations arise.
tl;dr
My bet is on Cooper, Diane and Laura walking in a reality of not their own as spirits just like Mike, Mrs. Tremond, her grandson, and maybe even Bob do/did. Cooper just doesn't realize yet that he uses someone named Richard and Carrie doesn't know that someone named Laura lives through her. And right in the end Laura pushes through Carrie and takes over with a shock of a lifetime.
But Audrey was in completely different place and looked different. Laura on the other hand was still in the same place and looked just like Carrie.
I imagine a thing like this might've happened at some point:
Mike sits on a chair in the White(?) Lodge.
The Giant / Fireman: "Remember Phillip (and Leland)."
It was important for Mike to find Phillip Gerard and use his body, and stay close to him. And he might've been asked to remember Leland too (like Cooper was not just asked to remember Richard but Linda too) to be able proceed on his mission set up by the Fireman.
And just as Phillip Gerard ended up using haloperidol to suppress Mike's access to him, I'm sure if Season 4 happens, there will be this Richard character using haloperidol too to treat schizophrenia (keeping Cooper away).
Mike is from another reality. He had his own reality where he lived in. And our reality was probably very strange to him at first too. And maybe he at first also thought he was himself in this strange reality and just later realized he is already actually using a man named Phillip Gerard.
Now Cooper is in the same situation. He has been put in a different reality, strange to him, but he still thinks he is in his own reality. And he found where Laura is, but currently it's just Carrie, perhaps under the influence of haloperidol. He is able to see "the true face" of Laura in Carrie though.
Maybe the Laura orb the Fireman sent to earth was him sending Laura in that other reality as a spirit. Maybe that was the moment when Laura ended up being in Carrie. He sent Laura to earth, but that doesn't have to mean it was about him sending Laura from his dimension to our world. It could be that when Laura's spirit in the Lodge disappeared, it happened because The Fireman made the orb. He sucked Laura into the orb and sent the spirit to the world, but not into our reality on it, but into another.
And what comes to Cooper's Mr. C'ish actions, maybe the spirit version that walks around the world always contains both sides of the person instead of one being in the lead. It's like with Mike when it might've not been always clear if he's malevolent or benevolent. His laughs in Season 2's scene where he says "he's as real as you and I" didn't sound like a laugh a nice person would do. And in the script of FWWM he actually shouts to Bob while he is killing Laura that "It's his own daughter you are killing" and laughs after that. So maybe he was supposed to be this mish-mash of a good and a sinister person. And maybe that's what Cooper in episode 18 was. He's now Mr. C and Cooper fully mixed together. The good side no longer calls the shots nor does the bad side. Both tendencies of him can easily come out when certain situations arise.
tl;dr
My bet is on Cooper, Diane and Laura walking in a reality of not their own as spirits just like Mike, Mrs. Tremond, her grandson, and maybe even Bob do/did. Cooper just doesn't realize yet that he uses someone named Richard and Carrie doesn't know that someone named Laura lives through her. And right in the end Laura pushes through Carrie and takes over with a shock of a lifetime.
But Audrey was in completely different place and looked different. Laura on the other hand was still in the same place and looked just like Carrie.
A deleted scene explains that Frank Truman's hat was also a item that the Fireman required to be present for the battle with BOB. Its ability to deflect bullets is needed for Truman to stall DoppelCooper long enough for Lucy to shoot him.
darkwing-buck
Member
Darth Chocula
Member
Dopplecooper getting shot threw off his aim enough that he shot through his hat sitting on his head.
HashtagLapsed
Member
I wonder what it is about electricity Lynch seems so interested in. It is obviously a major concept in Twin Peaks. When the Cowboy enters and leaves in Mulholland Drive. The end of Blue Velvet etc.
I was just thinking today, is there ANY reason Cooper would have thought Frank (or Harry for that matter) would have had the room 315 key? Obviously it should have been in his pocket when he entered Dougie in Ep. 3, but at most he'd remember having it in the car ride with Jade and then not having it after that. I can't think of any circumstance where Cooper should suspect any Truman had the key. Gordon would have known but Cooper hadn't had a chance to speak to Gordon yet IIRC.
Also, I think I've found the perfect summation of feelings about that ending.
It's weird, Lynch is probably the only writer/director I can think of where I always want to know more about the story and of course he's the only one that will just flat out refuse to give you more. Or if he does it's in a way that leaves you with even more questions. What a lovable asshole.
What some people don't realize is that dreams in the show aren't really dreams as we think of them. These dreams are basically different realities. If Judy can pull Lara out of one reality and have her live her life as a completely different person in a 'dream', then these dreams are as real as anything else. Especially since there's crossover between them. So...so what if Coop's return was a dream? All of the people and experiences still matter.
One of the things this season has conveyed is that matter and consciousness is one and the same at a fundamental level. Atomic bombs, electricity, fire, all intertwined as a mechanism for the lodge spirits and dreams to manifest. "It's all a dream" isn't just vapid hand-waiving. It's weaved into the fabric of the reality of the show.
One of the things this season has conveyed is that matter and consciousness is one and the same at a fundamental level. Atomic bombs, electricity, fire, all intertwined as a mechanism for the lodge spirits and dreams to manifest. "It's all a dream" isn't just vapid hand-waiving. It's weaved into the fabric of the reality of the show.
Eraserhead has a lot of electrical sounds in it as well as photo of the a bomb and a tree similar to the arm.
I guess that makes sense but oh man do I not like that reasoning. Why would Briggs know the future? If anything it should be the Fireman but if it was him, he'd probably be able to warn them that changing the past would mean the future is completely uncertain and potentially worse. Hmm, I wonder if that means Briggs is alive in this timeline/dimension/dream. Obviously not because Don Davis is dead, but why not if Laura is alive? Hell, the Log Lady could be alive too.
Watching that The Art Life doc this summer really cemented how much of the imagery and ideas Lynch packs into his work stemmed from his childhood. I can imagine Lynch as a kid walking down dark streets in the suburbs and hearing the power lines hum and looking at the wires stretching down the road and associating some strange, malevolent power with that.
Briggs has been to the White Lodge. When Coop and Andy visited the White Lodge, they were shown/learned about future events too.
that's because Audrey is alive somewhere in the world. Laura is not. When Laura wakes from the dream she has between life and death, she awakes to the cold nothingness of nonexistence. and probably brings Cooper with her.
Lynch tends to have extremely ambivalent feelings about modernity and electricity is one of modernity's principal signs.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
11,3 meg gif incoming.
lol
Yeah they were shown by the Fireman, though. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have foreseen problems with changing the past. Hell, if he knows the future, why did he send the Laura orb down in the first place, knowing she'd be killed? I don't feel like the story of Twin Peaks is air-tight enough for the Fireman to be omniscient. If that's the case, he's done a piss-poor job of it the last 70 odd years. I mean, the Fireman and/or Briggs catch something like where the key is going to be but Briggs doesn't predict his own murder? C'mon...
Lots of good ideas here.
It sounds very similar, like playing it forwards and backwards amounts to the same thing.
Chills at the credit scene. Both 17 and 18 knocked it out of the park in that department.
The credits for 18 are just so haunting.
Seems Judy doesn't like it when people start questioning where they are in time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHl_8WK8w3Y#t=2m52s
I wonder if Coop also got "zapped" to some other place/time right after Carrie screamed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHl_8WK8w3Y#t=2m52s
I wonder if Coop also got "zapped" to some other place/time right after Carrie screamed.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
One interesting parallel that I've been thinking about is that Diane/Linda not recognizing Cooper/Richard seems to echo Audrey's existential crisis.
Another thing is that I find two problems with hopeful interpretations of the ending
1. Even if Cooper hasn't lost yet, he is in his 60s. He can't fight forever.
2. Even if Cooper doesn't run out of time and attains victory, he is no longer the Cooper we knew. He is cold and hardened and bitter. Is it a happy ending if Laura is saved but Cooper is lost?
Another thing is that I find two problems with hopeful interpretations of the ending
1. Even if Cooper hasn't lost yet, he is in his 60s. He can't fight forever.
2. Even if Cooper doesn't run out of time and attains victory, he is no longer the Cooper we knew. He is cold and hardened and bitter. Is it a happy ending if Laura is saved but Cooper is lost?
i've been wondering... the dreams that Audrey and Laura have are literal... but what if the dreams that Cooper and/or Jefferies mention are not? Cooper's "we live inside a dream" might be referring to his and Diane's foolish belief that Laura can be saved. He is a dreamer - in the sense that he's envisioning a fantasy that he could never make reality, but he isn't dreaming in a literal sense.
marvelharvey
Member
One theory that seems pretty solid is that the whole thing has been a TV show, with actors playing a variety of roles and characters.
Don Draper's Hat
Member
I love this picture. As much as I'd like a more concrete answer to Twin Peaks, I have to admire Lynch sticking to his guns.
Just sounds like somebody who doesn't know what they're actually doing. And then sits back and laughs as people try to find meaning where there's no meaning to be found.