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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End
- Thread starter Joqu
- Start date
tycoonheart
Member
His not so soft 71 year old cock.
Doctor Bat
Member
The long journey to get there made me forget about it, but right at the opening scene of episode 1 I felt that things would end badly for Cooper. The Giant's clue giving doesn't seem to point towards any kind of hope like it did in the old series. It's shrouded in a dark air of gloom. Cooper vanishing there was unsettling then, but now it's utterly awful to think about.
We are like the trolls who trolls and then lives inside the troll thread. But who is the troll?
friskykillface
Banned
Cooper won
But he wanted two W's and fucked up and lost everything
Just take the W, Diane, Gordon and live out your life man.
But he wanted two W's and fucked up and lost everything
Just take the W, Diane, Gordon and live out your life man.
Alec
Member
Yeah, this is what I believe.
Thrillhou2
Member
lol Cinema Sins
plagiarize
Banned
Two birds with one stone was, to say the least, over ambitious.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Structurally, the "real world" interpretation of the third dream makes sense, but that doesn't imply that within the fictional construct of Twin Peaks its more important than the other two parts.
As in, characters can freely shift between all 3 dreams, and each dream has its own unending continuity.
So when Carrie/Laura screams at the end of 18, it effectively ends that dream as forcefully as when the bar fight shocks Audrey into waking up. Hence the blackout/power down followed by the credits rolling over Laura whispering to Coop in the red room.
"Our reality" is just another dream, and all dreams can be woken from.
The Elite
BOSS
This one is very good.
What was her name in the credits? Does she use her real name? Wouldn't that be important?
plagiarize
Banned
But he hasn't.
The RR isn't Twedes (even if it doesn't have RR 2 go) and Mary Reber isn't Mary Reber.
VistraNorrez
Member
If she played herself that would make sense but she is playing Alice Tremond, so that doesn't work.
But I do think back to the Fireman's line of "They are in our house now". Is he referring to the Chalfont/Tremonds occupying the Palmer House?
No. It was just the reveal that the show involves alternate dreams that are alternate realities willed into existence by people looking to deny their trauma.
Like Laura (and Diane), Audrey is a rape victim looking to escape the undeniable truth of her identity as a victim and the pain she has had to endure, but being unable to.
It's a parallel that's part of the greater collective dream spun from Laura's trauma and Cooper's denial of it.
Okay, so I'm just back to being pissed about the usage of non-actors in critical roles :lol
MisterR
Member
I agree with this. I don't think one is more important or more substantial, they are all more like different dimensions.
31GhostsIV
Banned
As someone posted above, it does appear that The Final Dossier is only 166 pages long.
I'll buy it, but i'm still annoyed that a) TSHOTP is riddled with unexplained errors and b) when the book was announced with was promised to 'cover the 25 years' between seasons but did nothing of the sort.
I'll buy it, but i'm still annoyed that a) TSHOTP is riddled with unexplained errors and b) when the book was announced with was promised to 'cover the 25 years' between seasons but did nothing of the sort.
I didn't notice anything bad about the Alice Tremond performance. Maybe it's because I'd watched Valerian on acid earlier that day and after the amplified horror of Carla Delevingne's parody of human emotion my standards were shifted, but I thought the way she acted fit the tone of the moment perfectly.
Airola
Member
Ok, so if I want to think that Cooper and Diane and Laura are all spirits like Mike and Mrs. Tremond and all, and if they are in the real world now where people watch Twin Peaks, then does it make the spirits in the series come from the world of Invitation to Love :O
So it's an infinite string of spirits coming from a tv show in a tv show in a tv show in a tv show :0 :O
I really like how this show further explored the Inland Empire concept of endless mirror universes and pocket dimensions.
Except he clearly doesn't.
Not only is that obviously not our reality, calling it the "real world" makes no sense. Whatever that place is, the ending makes it clear that it isn't any "realer" than any other incarnation of Twin Peaks. How does Cooper even find his way around if the sets are spread across different towns on the opposite side of Washington?
I honestly do not understand this thirst for finding pointless twists-within-twists.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
It doesn't matter because its all fiction anyway, it just Lynch expressing his TM based worldview that although there are multiple realities (dreams), there is always just a single "self".
Twin Peaks, in all its dimensions is the "self" that is woken to.
Rien
Jelly Belly
Yeah. I often had nightmares (i always have nightmares for the last 17 years or some btw) in where i woke up by my own scream.
I once had a dream within a dream within a dream.
At that moment i was so fucking sick on my holiday in Thailand and i dreamed the most bizarre dream (cant really remember it since it was in 2004 or something) but i do remember that i 'woke up' and that i was in another dream and by the end of that i told myself to wake up because is was probably a dream. Both dreams were completely different but remember from the second dream i was wearing arme clothing:
Then i woke up for real but being so deeply confused i didnt where i was and i couldnt even remember my own name for a small minute. I was like Dougie or something. I wrote it down my diary/logbook about that holiday but burned it down because i had a emotional breakdown a couple of years later.
But that shit was terifying as hell.
Her and Chrysta Bell really stood out for me as not professional actors, especially when beside Miguel Ferrer or Kyle Maclachlan. David Lynch is awful too, but a) he's the creator so if he wants to be in it, he can, and b) he's kind of so bad he's good.
Reber on the other hand read her lines flat and monotone as if the cue cards were just out of frame.
And Bell was even worse, because she actually tried to act, and her body language, facial expressions and mannerisms were hilariously stilted.
This scene from The Missing Pieces is also very relevant to the ending.
Now there is... no place... to go... BUT HOME
lmao, I feel that way about her even without acid.
The line was "it is in our house now."
The Elite
BOSS
I think that's absolutely it. The world Cooper enters seems to closely resemble ours but it's obviously not 1:1. Lynch did an incredible job of differentiating the new world from Twin Peaks Prime (for lack of a better term).
31GhostsIV
Banned
Help me out here -
Why do we see the scene where Coop loses Laura twice?
If Coop travels to 1989 and loses Laura, how does he make it back to the present?
Or, if he doesn't and stays in '89, how does Diane meet him at the curtain?
My brain hurts so much.
Why do we see the scene where Coop loses Laura twice?
If Coop travels to 1989 and loses Laura, how does he make it back to the present?
Or, if he doesn't and stays in '89, how does Diane meet him at the curtain?
My brain hurts so much.
HashtagLapsed
Member
I'm not sure about TM and their philosophy and ontology to be honest. Monetizing meditation seems iffy to me. Paying 1mil for a month long meditation retreat seems like complete and utter bullshit.
I think it is pretty clear Frost is pretty fucking familiar with Kenneth Grant, Aleister Crowley, A.O. Spare etc. Concepts like the Mauve Zone are somewhat obscure outside of niche circles. There is plenty of creative liberties taken too. In western Occultism, particularly Thelema which is where Crowley and Grant come in, BABALON is not a negative figure at all (depending on approach I suppose, which brings the White and Black Lodges back into things). Parsons is mentioned plenty in the Secret History too.
I think it is pretty clear Frost is pretty fucking familiar with Kenneth Grant, Aleister Crowley, A.O. Spare etc. Concepts like the Mauve Zone are somewhat obscure outside of niche circles. There is plenty of creative liberties taken too. In western Occultism, particularly Thelema which is where Crowley and Grant come in, BABALON is not a negative figure at all (depending on approach I suppose, which brings the White and Black Lodges back into things). Parsons is mentioned plenty in the Secret History too.
Charles Brandon
Member
Question: When Coop and Diane travel the 430 miles to the warp point, they are driving an old af car. Where the fuck did they get this car from? This detail makes me think that they are somehow in the past before they hit the warp but how that works and what it means is beyond me.
MisterR
Member
I thought Bell worked, because her mannerisms we so odd and really basically unhuman. I thought that worked in the Twin Peaks world.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
To be honest, it's decisions like these that stopped season 3 from staying at the heights it reached, for me. Lynch made so many decisions throughout the entire season that sacrificed or at least hurt the quality of the show. Bad actors, non-actors, unrealistic dialogue, exposition where it didn't belong, an abundance of musical numbers, his insistence on using self-made special effects, etc. etc. etc.
Rewatching episode 18, I consider it to be well done as a standalone 1 hour feature when compared to, say, the final acts of films like Mulholland Dr. But I don't think it fits with the fact that Twin Peaks is a 40+ episode TV show, and that this season was 25 years in the making. It essentially swept everyone else under the rug, all for the sake of lore/world-building/focus on the Lodge spirits that honestly lost some of their sinister presence by being featured so heavily.
Just my opinion, anyways.
Oh Bell is awful, no doubt. Lynch often has a self awareness about his limitations, with the affected stilted line delivery and giving himself dumb lines like the "Two Coopers, what the health?" line. He's often providing meta commentary on the silliness of the writing, so it works, but he has his moments of convincing acting, like the "Albert... Albert" scene or his dreamer monologue.
But Robert didn't bother me. I was totally immersed in the moment, as much as a film ever has, and she didn't take me out of it. It might not be a good performance, but in that strange context, surrounded by amazing performances, it worked well enough for me.
Normally I can just accept that she's bad and move on but in that moment it was really uncomfortably awful.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Twin Peaks - Trying to make sense of the 2-part finale
Thought this was an interesting video, though it brings up more questions.
Thought this was an interesting video, though it brings up more questions.
But who is the dreamer?
31GhostsIV
Banned
Criticism time...
I really enjoyed the Blue Rose... well, two thirds of the Blue Rose Task Force in the first half of the season (I don't count Diane as a member of the BRTF). Then, in the second half despite flying wherever they needed to beforehand, they just decide to shack up in a hotel room in Buckhorn so Albert can spout exposition at Tammy (who let's be honest, should have been Denise all along) and Gordon could spout retcons about Judy and Jeffries and DRINK FINE BORDEAUX.
By the time the series was done I missed old Cole. And by that I mean the younger version.
I really enjoyed the Blue Rose... well, two thirds of the Blue Rose Task Force in the first half of the season (I don't count Diane as a member of the BRTF). Then, in the second half despite flying wherever they needed to beforehand, they just decide to shack up in a hotel room in Buckhorn so Albert can spout exposition at Tammy (who let's be honest, should have been Denise all along) and Gordon could spout retcons about Judy and Jeffries and DRINK FINE BORDEAUX.
By the time the series was done I missed old Cole. And by that I mean the younger version.
stuminus3
Member
The dream is our consciousness and reality is just how we each perceive it as individuals.
Any thoughts on why the "good" Lodgers no longer seem able to exist in the real world? In the OG run Philip Gerard could have just jumped in his car and drove out to Vegas to pick up Cooper when things went wrong. Just a plot contrivance? Interesting too that Al Strobel is only ever credited as "Philip Gerard" and never referred to as "MIKE".
Any thoughts on why the "good" Lodgers no longer seem able to exist in the real world? In the OG run Philip Gerard could have just jumped in his car and drove out to Vegas to pick up Cooper when things went wrong. Just a plot contrivance? Interesting too that Al Strobel is only ever credited as "Philip Gerard" and never referred to as "MIKE".
I think the depths of horror that Cooper's fate conjures up, coupled with the image of the Laughing Man and reference to the Chalfonts/Tremond, restored any frightening mystique that had been lost through their being featured prominently in the series, and then some.
To reinforce the idea that Cooper is denying reality. He keeps repeating the same mistake, trying to save Laura from death, but it will never work, because that's impossible. That's why I think 'The World Spins' plays the first time: it is happening again. And again and again and again, through infinite parallel universes.
By waking up from the dream of saving Laura in 1989 that he entered into after defeating Bad Coop, and then shifting into another dream to try and change the outcome.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Who was that nurse? Was she ever mentioned again?
Despite being credited as Philip Gerard and differentiated from the Mike arm, I think it's clear that the role he's really playing here is of Mike, where an CG Electric Tree Arm wouldn't be appropriate, would be distractingly silly, or too cost prohibitive. He reenacts scenes and says lines associated with Mike in the original run. On top of this, original Philip Gerard never existed in the lodge as Mike does - he only ever showed up as a blank puppet in there, under the control of Mike.
Lynch seems to have stuck by a code of not recasting in this season, no matter what bizarre places that adhering to that code would end up taking the show. The Mike/Gerard inconsistency with the original show is just the most elegant compromise with Michael J Anderson needing to be replaced.
A possible in-world explanation could be that Phillip Gerard passed away, yet continues to exist in a similar form to Leland and Laura's.
The most likely real world explanation seems to be that Al Strobel was given material originally intended for the Man From Another Place. His new role closely resembles that of the original Arm's, even the way he's framed when Skyping Dougie/Cooper through various pieces of furniture resembles the shots previously reserved for Michael J. Anderson.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Yeah the FBI storyline screeched to a halt after Shaggy's death. I thought it was pretty bad. Lynch was behind that desk for like 4 episodes.