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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End

Linkin112

Member
Since "The World Spins" is still stuck in my head, I decided to rewatch the ending to Lonely Souls and damn, that Roadhouse scene might still be my favorite moment in all of Twin Peaks.

The way everyone suddenly feels unsettled after Maddie's death and they don't even know it happened yet, alongside the song playing gives me chills every time.
 

Chitown B

Member
scene serves three purposes:

1. lets us know Harry is sick
2. lets us know Harry's brother is the new sherrif
3. lets us know that "it's about insurance," a hilarious foreshadowing to the entire Dougie story.

also, no. I was really banking on this guy too.
 

Prurient

Banned
i've been wondering... the dreams that Audrey and Laura have are literal... but what if the dreams that Cooper and/or Jefferies mention are not? Cooper's "we live inside a dream" might be referring to his and Diane's foolish belief that Laura can be saved. He is a dreamer - in the sense that he's envisioning a fantasy that he could never make reality, but he isn't dreaming in a literal sense.

I'm more apt to believe that Cooper realises the power of the dreamer in that moment. The scene before is obviously very strange, but after he says that line the scene becomes very dreamlike, jumping locations randomly and having a key open a door it shouldn't be able to. Maybe his realisation is that at every level of reality there is always a dreamer and a dream, and a power coming from that knowledge.
 

hughesta

Banned
I'm more apt to believe that Cooper realises the power of the dreamer in that moment. The scene before is obviously very strange, but after he says that line the scene becomes very dreamlike, jumping locations randomly and having a key open a door it shouldn't be able to. Maybe his realisation is that at every level of reality there is always a dreamer and a dream, and a power coming from that knowledge.
I like this. I like this a lot. There is always a dreamer, and there is always a dream. Lines up with Lynch's comment in that one interview before The Return was filmed.
 

dafinezt

Banned
dm7fo49.gif


Most puzzling shot in the entire season

I had to pause and rewind this bit a couple times to figure out what was going on with his hat... still don't know.
 

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
i've been wondering... the dreams that Audrey and Laura have are literal... but what if the dreams that Cooper and/or Jefferies mention are not? Cooper's "we live inside a dream" might be referring to his and Diane's foolish belief that Laura can be saved. He is a dreamer - in the sense that he's envisioning a fantasy that he could never make reality, but he isn't dreaming in a literal sense.
It's the same concept as the delusions we see in Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway.
Laura's delusion is similar to Cooper's though in that she is envisioning a reality where she could avoid her pain and be saved.
Cooper's tragedy is that he allowed himself to be caught in Laura's dream. He thought he could free another person from their pain, and himself of the pain of bearing witness to their suffering.
Since "The World Spins" is still stuck in my head, I decided to rewatch the ending to Lonely Souls and damn, that Roadhouse scene might still be my favorite moment in all of Twin Peaks.

The way everyone suddenly feels unsettled after Maddie's death and they don't even know it happened yet, alongside the song playing gives me chills every time.
The way episode 17's ending calls upon the power of that moment is beautiful. It's an echo of Laura's death, and Cooper fails at his chance to protect an innocent and overcome the evil that men do. Here he once again gets a chance to undo that horror, but it's never going to be possible. It will keep happening again as long as Cooper refuses to let go.
 
Is Coop even aware of Judy being with Sarah Palmar? He's only heard Judy once from Jeffries. Also it seems just so crazy that both of Laura's parents were both taken over by BOB and Judy. I always thought whatever was going on with Sarah Palmar was because she was a medium but nope she's been controlled by Judy. But then why does BOB as Leland not care about Sarah and knock her out sometimes then if Judy was already in her in the original seasons?

I don't think Judy was inside of her in Seasons 1 and 2. Judy is some sort spiritual embodiment of evil and suffering, so I sort of assume that it finds her after Leland's death. Her misery and suffering, combined with her ability to sort of channel spirits and act as a medium, led Judy to her. I don't think the Frogmoth from Part 8 was Judy, but I think it was Bob or some sort other Lodge spirit.

edit: I agree that I don't really care about Annie, but her complete disappearance this season is something that should at least be acknowledged, even if the ultimate explanation for it is swept aside.


Ironically I think Mr.C's endgame is actually to destroy Judy too but just for much more selfish reasons than Cooper. The thing I don't understand is if he has BOB inside of him then why doesn't he know where to find her? I guess possessing BOB doesn't necessarily mean knowing his knowledge. Judy/Sarah is aware that Mr.C has BOB though which I found interesting.
 

hughesta

Banned
Judy almost seems to be a God of Evil in the Twin Peaks universe. She can just will Laura away from Coop at the end of 17. It is unbeatable.
 
What if Mr C is Cooper corrupted by being trapped in the time loop searching for Judy? Every time he passes through the loop he loses part of himself. Mr C is the tragic end - a man reduced to base instinct and the sole drive of finding Judy, even using BOB's help to achieve the goal.

The Coop we meet at the end - Richard Coop - is his first step on the mission to find Judy. Bad Coop is the end.

I wonder this because 'Good' Coop ends the show with the same goal Bad Coop seemed to have.
 

Klocker

Member
What if Mr C is Cooper corrupted by being trapped in the time loop searching for Judy? Every time he passes through the loop he loses part of himself. Mr C is the tragic end - a man reduced to base instinct and the sole drive of finding Judy, even using BOB's help to achieve the goal.

The Coop we meet at the end - Richard Coop - is his first step on the mission to find Judy. Bad Coop is the end.

I wonder this because 'Good' Coop ends the show with the same goal Bad Coop seemed to have.

Yes I was thinking similar time loop and you have outlined a good theory.


But I like the other linked theory above about reality and the 4th wall a lot too
 

Slaythe

Member
What if Mr C is Cooper corrupted by being trapped in the time loop searching for Judy? Every time he passes through the loop he loses part of himself. Mr C is the tragic end - a man reduced to base instinct and the sole drive of finding Judy, even using BOB's help to achieve the goal.

The Coop we meet at the end - Richard Coop - is his first step on the mission to find Judy. Bad Coop is the end.

I wonder this because 'Good' Coop ends the show with the same goal Bad Coop seemed to have.

I don't think it's that simple.

Remember Judy wanted C to go away so Bob could be sent back to the Lodge.

C seemed aware that Judy wanted him back there since he had "loopholes" prepared.

As for the last Cooper, one visual element I think is powerful is this :

When they depart, it's broad day light, and they arrive at night.

It's a transition from Light to Dark, and I feel it's exactly what Cooper went through.

Basically, I think mister C was a malevolent and shadow created from Dale Cooper, while the Cooper at the end is a darker Cooper.

Think of it as a spectrum, positive neutral negative.

Mr C isn't just a "negative Cooper", as he has his own motivations and will.
The ending Cooper is a negative Cooper, same motivations, same character, just on the "other side" of the spectrum.

Which happens to mimic some of C's mannerism because he was also a negative being, despite being another person entirely.

That's how I see it anyway, because Mr C never quite felt like Dale Cooper, evil or not.
 

Alpende

Member
Watched ep 18 yesterday and I don't know what the hell was going on. After reading a recap / interpretation from IndieWire it made a bit more sense. What a ride.
 

Corpsepyre

Banned
I still think that scene showing the girl running out and crying in the school, from season one, serves some higher purpose. It was shown twice here in season 3 as well. In the opening scene of the first ep and later on when the giant shows Andy the visions. Did anyone even question who that could be ? Maybe there were hints in the show.
 
I still think that scene showing the girl running out and crying in the school, from season one, serves some higher purpose. It was shown twice here in season 3 as well. In the opening scene of the first ep and later on when the giant shows Andy the visions. Did anyone even question who that could be ? Maybe there were hints in the show.

I feel like Lynch just loves the shot. As he should, because it’s quite brilliant.
 

le.phat

Member
Finished the finale last night and it left me dazed and confused, emotional, nauseous and devastated. I feel terribly sad for everyone, even though I'm having a hard time understanding/explaining the finer details of the ending.

I'm just in awe of the way Lynch wrapped this up and handled this seemingly impossible task. The balls on this guy. As for Twin Peaks, even though my heart feels broken, I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.
 

Slaythe

Member
Hmmm Yeah its a funny article but no..

This is piece written by Lynch fans to find excuses for the big pile of bullshit he served us all.
The piece even try to clarify all those major sloppy editing scenes in to telling there are different realities? Sure!

It sounded like dumb "lynch apologists" before, but now that we know this is a fact, you might want to stop with the attitude.

That reminds me of people saying the episode 17 early sequence is ridiculous and we try to justify it by stating it evokes a dream, despite the fact there literally was a giant cooper head plastered over it saying "we live inside a dream"...
 

Boem

Member
Hmmm Yeah its a funny article but no..

This is piece written by Lynch fans to find excuses for the big pile of bullshit he served us all.
The piece even try to clarify all those major sloppy editing scenes in to telling there are different realities? Sure!

I get not agreeing with theories, but why do people get so angry over this stuff, and how has 'Lynch fans' become an insult?

I don't think there's much 'sloppy editing' in this show, it all seems very deliberate to me, and the show hinted at multiple realities for a long time - especially now that the finale is here, with Cooper going back in time, Cooper/Richard waking up in a different motel, the Palmer house suddenly having the real life owner of the house living in it, etc. That's all very much in your face, and further proof that those earlier smaller instances weren't mistakes at all. That's just how time/space works in the context of this show.

Given the intense level of detail in every shot and bit of sound design (and the long, long time it took to make this) - as evidenced by how long shots linger in moments and how the audience is expected to soak everything in - I can't imagine there being much that slipped past Lynch and the other editor's attention.
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
17 - Albert "You've gone soft in your old age"
18 - Cole "Not where it counts, buddy!"

I still have no idea if it has any level of intention or not, but there's so much about Season 3 of Twin Peaks that can be taken as commentary on television, film, and David Lynch himself through the whole season.
 

EdmondD

Member
Lynch hates us and wants us to suffer so he can eat garmanbozia with his tulpa girlfriend all day. Nothing makes sense and he just made shit up because he thinks Lost was a good tv show and he's a big Damon Lindeloff fan.
 

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Rewatching Fire Walk With Me now and it's kind of shocking how relevant it is to the finale. I watched it after finishing season 2 when I watched the whole show a few years ago but it's worth recapping if you haven't seen it recently
 

Addi

Member
Lynch hates us and wants us to suffer so he can eat garmanbozia with his tulpa girlfriend all day. Nothing makes sense and he just made shit up because he thinks Lost was a good tv show and he's a big Damon Lindeloff fan.

Exactly, he is the biggest bullshit artist in the 21st century. Pseudo-Intellectuals love his stuff, it makes them feel superior to hard working normal people. It's the longest wank in the history of cinema. Of course it all ended on a cop out with everything being a dream, it makes Laura Palmer nothing else than a Mary Sue. Looking forward to Cinema Sins ripping this season into shreds.
 
Very strong inferiority complex there with some of these posts. Like this diarrhea post above me

It's been one of the uglier things about this thread (and honestly some of the attitude towards film on this forum in particular)

If you like Lynch you must be pretentious, or fooling yourselves etc.
 
I don't know who is being sarcastic and who is serious.

You people are all part of the dreamer who is dreaming me dreaming this anyway, so whatever.
 

JohnDoe

Banned
Exactly, he is the biggest bullshit artist in the 21st century. Pseudo-Intellectuals love his stuff, it makes them feel superior to hard working normal people. It's the longest wank in the history of cinema. Of course it all ended on a cop out with everything being a dream, it makes Laura Palmer nothing else than a Mary Sue. Looking forward to Cinema Sins ripping this season into shreds.
Lynch and Frost worked on this for four years. How is that not hard working?
 

MisterR

Member
Very strong inferiority complex there with some of these posts. Like this diarrhea post above me

It's been one of the uglier things about this thread (and honestly some of the attitude towards film on this forum in particular)

If you like Lynch you must be pretentious, or fooling yourselves etc.

Yep, there are a lot of dumb people who get really upset when they have to actually think about things instead of having everything laid out on a platter for them. It's a lot like the republican hate of science. It's hard to think, it's easier to just call people pretentious or elitist.
 

Slaythe

Member
Exactly, he is the biggest bullshit artist in the 21st century. Pseudo-Intellectuals love his stuff, it makes them feel superior to hard working normal people. It's the longest wank in the history of cinema. Of course it all ended on a cop out with everything being a dream, it makes Laura Palmer nothing else than a Mary Sue. Looking forward to Cinema Sins ripping this season into shreds.

I believe you should make movies too.

Because with that one post you've made me feel incredibly superior.
 

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
Judy almost seems to be a God of Evil in the Twin Peaks universe. She can just will Laura away from Coop at the end of 17. It is unbeatable.
Judy is the existence of evil. We can't escape it, we hurt ourselves in trying to fight it. We can only accept its existence and try to find a way to enjoy life in spite of it.
What if Mr C is Cooper corrupted by being trapped in the time loop searching for Judy? Every time he passes through the loop he loses part of himself. Mr C is the tragic end - a man reduced to base instinct and the sole drive of finding Judy, even using BOB's help to achieve the goal.

The Coop we meet at the end - Richard Coop - is his first step on the mission to find Judy. Bad Coop is the end.

I wonder this because 'Good' Coop ends the show with the same goal Bad Coop seemed to have.
Bad Cooper was always a reflection of the bad part of Cooper's soul. That's what I took from the identity blurring between different sides of Cooper in episode 18, where whether we're watching Good or Bad or some new Cooper becomes hard to tell. In the end they were all the same thing.
Hawk said in season 2 that if you faced your shadow self without perfect courage, the black lodge would annihilate your soul. Coop couldn't face the dark side of himself courageously, the first step in coming to grips with his faults and failures, and so he loses himself. The identity of Good Cooper is being consumed by the character of Bad Cooper.
I still think that scene showing the girl running out and crying in the school, from season one, serves some higher purpose. It was shown twice here in season 3 as well. In the opening scene of the first ep and later on when the giant shows Andy the visions. Did anyone even question who that could be ? Maybe there were hints in the show.
A raw, honest response to inexplicable evil. Cooper could never address it with that kind of honesty. He couldn't grieve like Bobby, Donna and James at the roadhouse, instead looking on with confusion. Even as Laura is overtaken by raw emotion in front of the Palmer house, Cooper is still stumbling around in confusion. If he could face up to grief, he could move forward. Instead he tries to overcome the reality of senseless pain and dooms himself to forever fight an unwinnable battle. He repressed himself until he loses his identity.
Exactly, he is the biggest bullshit artist in the 21st century. Pseudo-Intellectuals love his stuff, it makes them feel superior to hard working normal people.
Stop acting as though you are morally superior to people because of your taste. You are not. You are showing an incredibly ugly side to yourself by dismissing people's thoughts and emotions over something so harmless as a television show, and one made without the intended to propogate a harmful message at that.
Of course it all ended on a cop out with everything being a dream, it makes Laura Palmer nothing else than a Mary Sue.
Laura Palmer is a girl so wholly transformed by her abuse that she can never escape its impact, even when she hides in dreams to try to shut it out. She is turned into a bitter and ugly person by her suffering, and her existence is one no one would wish upon themself. She could not be further from a Mary Sue.
Looking forward to Cinema Sins ripping this season into shreds.
Cinema Sins are all about misunderstanding cinema. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
 
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