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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End
- Thread starter Joqu
- Start date
After he loses Laura the second time, we just see him back in the Red Room and then things play out very similarly to Dale exiting the Red Room in Episode 3 except the Evolution of the Arm's question has changed to "Is it the story of the little girl who lived down the lane?" and Dale exits the Red Room at the sycamores.
I'm still dubious if when Cooper exits and meets Diane if it's current day or not.
Not only that, but what's up with the shirt? The way it's sticking up seems kind of like there's something underneath it. Plus there's something like puke on the front of his shirt. I don't think it's blood since he was shot through the head. Kind of looks like the garmonbozia puke Mr. C puked up in episode 3.
Sorry, posting again so it's not lost at the bottom of the previous page.
I'm late and not fully caught up on the thread, but has anybody talked about this yet ? At first I thought nothing much of this guy. "Must have been a violent husband or something like that".
But why are his arms like this ? Looks like he was writing on a computer before his body went cold.
Also, did anyone else notice that for the finale, there's no electricity sound anymore when the Lynch/Frost Productions logo appears at the very end ?
I'm late and not fully caught up on the thread, but has anybody talked about this yet ? At first I thought nothing much of this guy. "Must have been a violent husband or something like that".
But why are his arms like this ? Looks like he was writing on a computer before his body went cold.
Also, did anyone else notice that for the finale, there's no electricity sound anymore when the Lynch/Frost Productions logo appears at the very end ?
So has there been any word, post finale, from Showtime on how successful the show was for them? I know the on-air ratings weren't great but I'm assuming (or hoping?) streaming numbers really carried the show.
Just desperately want a press release that talks about how pleased they are with the show in the hopes we're somehow fortunate enough to get another season from the powers that be.
Just desperately want a press release that talks about how pleased they are with the show in the hopes we're somehow fortunate enough to get another season from the powers that be.
Buttonbasher
Member
They also somehow got permission to run the Showtime end tag completely silent as well.
HashtagLapsed
Member
Thinking on inconsistencies, Laura's homecoming face isn't in the golden orb in the clouds in the first episode.
I have no idea what to think about that guy. It reminded me a lot of the end of Blue Velvet though.
Airola
Member
Isn't the shot of Leland Palmer saying "find Laura" mirrored compared to the first time it happened?
I wonder if that means anything.
EDIT:
I just noticed that it's actually another take. It's not mirrored, it's shot from his left. The curtains and the floor patterns prove it.
EDIT2:
I wonder if that means anything.
EDIT:
I just noticed that it's actually another take. It's not mirrored, it's shot from his left. The curtains and the floor patterns prove it.
EDIT2:
Charles Brandon
Member
It's so odd.
Why does Carrie have no problem letting the FBI into her house when she has a murdered geezer in there? She barely acknowledges it.
Who killed him?
Why does Carrie have no problem letting the FBI into her house when she has a murdered geezer in there? She barely acknowledges it.
Who killed him?
31GhostsIV
Banned
Actually, yeah I'm pretty sure it is.
I'm sure the delivery of the line is different as well.
Even if this was bigger than Game of Thrones I doubt we'd see another season. Things are over for Cooper and Laura, the characters at the core of Twin Peaks. Do we want a show about the side characters, or one of multiple variations of the scenario of episode 18? It would be totally superfluous.
This is the end.
Her dream is coming to a close. She wants to be lead out of her reality, and subconsciously she knows that's what Cooper is there to do.
As for the guy, who knows? It implies a lot about the mental state of an serious abuse victim who has tried for years to repress her pain, but is on the verge of a breakdown as it rises to the surface.
She can no longer do a good job of hiding the pain and violence behind her facade.
The scene where BOB was defeated stood out to me as a very "TV ending" even as I was watching it. The big bad is dramatically defeated, and all the protagonists are somehow gathered together for a warm "farewell" and one last laugh. "I'm glad we made enough sandwiches!"
What if Laura is Judy? There is no good and evil, just two rival forces?
I subscribe to these ideas.
Same here. I was surprised that the Cooper overlay didn't turn out to be a reflection on some kind of magical screen (and we do know how much the Fireman likes his clip shows, he even had an entirely curved TV installed in the ceiling).
The Elite
BOSS
So are we all in agreement that Cooper and Diane enter a dream? Someone's dream. That's why things feel so unusual. It feels like a dream. The hotel magically changes overnight. The car changes. The random dead guy that barely gets acknowledged. The general mood. It's a dream. It's meant to be something approximating our reality, but it's not. There is something off about it.
Who is the dreamer?
Who is the dreamer?
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Twist: Twin Peaks was Bioshock Infinite all along.
I didn't write that, it was my doppelgänger. I left for 25 minutes, but I was able to switch places with him again. He's an asshole, I think he's a Trump supporter too.
I actually think Lynch elevated the TV format to a whole new level. There has often been discussions if TV has overtaken film in terms of quality and even though it has clear strengths, I have never really been convinced. Because of the length of TV series, stories rely on a sort of logical causality and the levels of abstraction are pretty low. It's like comparing poems to novels. Twin Peaks Season 3 is a combinations of the two worlds and I think that's part of the reason why it's called an 18 hours movie. It's not because of anything structural, but because it's a clear poetic vision of an auteur.
HashtagLapsed
Member
Maybe the realities everyone always experienced and lived in Twin Peaks were Judy's dream and the Fireman is trying to wake people up. Judy being or representing a demiurge type figure, or Samsara or whatever. Maybe Choronzon, which would be sorta appropriate I suppose.
I just rewatched 18. It is fucking insane this entire thing exists. I love it all so much.
I just rewatched 18. It is fucking insane this entire thing exists. I love it all so much.
plagiarize
Banned
I would have been furious if that had been the ending, despite knowing so many who would have been happy with it.
To me Part 17 was almost Lynch and Frost showing everyone that if they wanted to, they absolutely could have tied everything together and delivered a 'standard' finale', so as to undercut any criticisms from Part 18 about them making it up as them going along, or it being a co-out or what have you.
Part 17 was like... hey, we totally could defeat evil, tie everything up in a neat bow, and give everyone happy endings, but fuck that.
Airola
Member
No.
Well, depends on the definition of dream.
But as a dream the way we understand it and this is supposed to be the that kind of a dream of someone else. No.
I don't know if I'm alone with my disagreement though
What if it's Judy?
Airola
Member
He's the collective of people quoting Twin Peaks lines and waiting for Season 3 to become Twin Peaks and banging their heads against figurative jail bars and fainting after realizing it will never happen.
Latvian Hitman
Member
31GhostsIV
Banned
Laura. She's awoken by her mother calling her from reality. Scream. cut to black. As for Coop? Dead? Returned to the start of the loop?
plagiarize
Banned
He's a drunk. No more, no less.
I did think something weird was going to happen with Naido and he was going to start repeating English after she made her noises... but nope. Just a drunk.
31GhostsIV
Banned
What happened to the 1-1-9 woman?
To add to the 4th wall break theory - in episode 15 where the log lady dies, in the credits there's a "In Memory of MARGARET LANTERMAN". This is the only time an actor has dies is referenced by the name of their character, and not the name of the actor (we had a "In Memory of FRANK SILVA/DAVID BOWIE/JACK NANCE").
Plus the whole deal with Rancho Rosa being a neighborhood.
Plus the whole deal with Rancho Rosa being a neighborhood.
Schnozberry
Member
Yeah, this scene had me really scratching my head for a while. What stood out from the still frame was the bulge in his stomach that looked like another "Bob" sphere emerging from him, and what looks like Garmonbozia on his shirt. It's clear that even in this alternate reality that was created when Cooper interrupted the past, Laura/Carrie is being tormented by a Lodge entity, though she clearly seems more capable of defending herself in this new place and time.
The ending of the episode is a daunting thing to process. Carrie probably thought she had rid herself of her torment by leaving Odessa, only to to have another lifetime's worth of trauma revisited upon her when she heard Sarah Palmer's voice echo from another timeline. Were the lights going out on the Palmer House that universe collapsing in on itself, like the end of a dream, or were Laura and Coop just swept up and moved to yet another reality, their memories and recollections even further scattered to the wind. The final overlay of Laura speaking Coop's ear makes me think that the cycle will continue.
HashtagLapsed
Member
I kind of think it is appropriate to consider Mulholland Dr. when it comes Twin Peaks too. Especially when it comes to the 4th wall stuff. And there is that woodsman type person in there too. As well as eternal recurrence and mobius strip like concepts.
But the final Silencio of Mulholland Dr. is often interpreted as the end of the dream for the audience/subject to the film. With their experience of the film being akin to a dream.
But the final Silencio of Mulholland Dr. is often interpreted as the end of the dream for the audience/subject to the film. With their experience of the film being akin to a dream.
You think Cooper is just done at that point? No purpose anymore? I don't believe things are over.
My feelings are that if they wanted to continue, they could continue with Coop and Laura/Carrie. They're no longer beholden to Twin Peaks nostalgia since they can literally portray things as differently as that want, given the current condition of those characters. They're in a bad way, but there's no reason to think that their story *has* to end there. I'm hopeful we get more, but will also be okay if we don't.
She says 911 backwards, like a Lodge resident. I think, much like Audrey's store provides clues to Laura's dream, she's there to hint at Sparkle. Sparkle users talk about seeing animals multiple time in the show, and we know that the Lodge is no stranger to using animals as a messenger for something (the white horse appears in the lodge itself, so it's not something inherent to Sarah.) That combined with Red being a spooky magic man implies that Sparkle relates to the Lodge in some way
Charles Brandon
Member
I was going to pooh-pooh this and then I looked at the full size version of the image at the top of this page - WTF is that coming out of his stomach? Are those fingers?
HashtagLapsed
Member
I think that if they made more Twin Peaks, be it a movie or season, it would still end up being somewhat inconclusive and similar to what we just got.
I feel like the finale felt like it was a cliffhanger for a new series and didn't feel conclusive at all, but on further reflection ended up being pretty conclusive. In that, it will always be inconclusive as Cooper tries again and again to make things right but just can't. The black orb of Judy will just keep moving around infinitely and Cooper will just keep chasing it trying to make it stop.
We have seen the results of the first person who was exposed to this nightmare.
plagiarize
Banned
The thread I think most obviously dangling should they want to continue is Gordon Cole.
When the original run ended, we had 'See you again in 25 years' to give us a reasonable reason to believe in more.
Now, I keep thinking about that line where Coop is told to find Gordon, because he'll remember the unofficial events. So Gordon will presumably have knowledge that could help our heroes wherever they may be.
When the original run ended, we had 'See you again in 25 years' to give us a reasonable reason to believe in more.
Now, I keep thinking about that line where Coop is told to find Gordon, because he'll remember the unofficial events. So Gordon will presumably have knowledge that could help our heroes wherever they may be.
Necron
Member
I like this and feel that this theory fits the themes of the show.
31GhostsIV
Banned
In the Naido/Diane scene, you get the shot of the clock stuck on 2 53.
This reminded me of Lucy talking to Chad (I think?) about clocks not working earlier in the season.
This reminded me of Lucy talking to Chad (I think?) about clocks not working earlier in the season.
Totally agree that even if they ever make more it is very unlikely to have a definitive ending. I just think if they wanted to, they absolutely can (and would) continue on with these characters. Nothing about the ending suggested a finality to what Cooper was doing, simply that he's in a foreign time and place (and as such, in a bad way).
HashtagLapsed
Member
Gordon seemed to know Jeffries, who seemed like he was familiar with Judy, turned into a teapot too. And the creamed corn and bomb pictures in his office too.
I could not agree more.
There is another story to tell, but I don't think it's worth telling. It wouldn't lead us anywhere that wasn't already communicated by that final episode. It would be an exercise in wallowing in misery, with nothing redemptive about it. The infinity of the suffering Cooper and Laura are doomed to was the point of the final episode, and it was a beautiful and horrifying cautionary tale, so it was worth putting out into the world for what it gives to its audience.
I like to think she was Mrs Chalfont/Treymond.
An addictive and physically destructive drug an effective method to further their lodge dwellers' goal of generating pain and sorrow.
And the Lynch/Frost logo's buzz has been replaced by silence. The end of the dream that is Twin Peaks.
HashtagLapsed
Member
Oh yeah, there is definitely room for more.
If my assumption about the series (at least in part) is right though (that is, "waking up", liberation etc. Judy dreaming the nightmare they all live in, one reality or another), Lynch might be concerned about people mistaking the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself, if you know what I mean. They absolutely could make more and I would love to see more, I just doubt things would turn out that much differently.
Since they're never gonna give us an explanation I'ma just say that was Billy
I think ultimately, you're probably right, but the best thing I can say about this past season is that it frequently and genuinely surprised me. If Lynch/Frost wanted to tell another story, I'd have faith that they came up with something compelling.
Piggybacking from the above response, but yeah, I agree with this too.
Most of my wanting more comes out of literal wanting, and not the belief there should be more. I really enjoyed season three and would like to see them continue even if the show becomes even less recognizable from what it was originally.
yeah this is good stuff, I'm taking this answer.
Wasn't it Billy though? Doesn't one of the randoms at the Roadhouse talk about how the last time she saw Billy, he raced into her trailer and was bleeding out of his mouth, or something like that?
For sure, I'd be open to it because I trust in their creative partnership, but it's hard to imagine a continuation that wouldn't artistically compromise this one.
One of the best things about season 3 is that it brought the core themes of the original Twin Peaks to a new level of depth, with a new level of maturity in their exploration.
I think it's slightly more realistic to hope for another Lynch/Frost collaboration or at least a new Lynch film. It would be at least as valuable as an unrecognizable furthering of Twin Peaks.
I think the closest thing we'll get to Twin Peaks season 4 is Inland Empire.
There wasn't room for him in the narrative. He is dead, and isn't someone Cooper wanted to resurrect.Looks like the Upcoming Tim & Eric episode is going to have more Ray Wise than 18 hours of Twin Peaks Season 3
I feel like you never know with actors and schedules though. Maybe Ray Wise just didn't really want to be involved or had conflicts.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
The 4th wall stuff is very interesting. Consider coopers final line "What year is it?" (or whatever the exact version is). In some ways Twin Peaks: The Return is the anti-nostalgia to all these sudden returning shows.
I feel like the point is that we're often trying to remake or relive the past. This season was a harsh push back to that sentiment. If you try to go back things won't be the same, they can't be. In the transition from part 17 to 18 coop pushes too far and is now out of place in what seems to be our present.
So there's an element of these things being discussed here, but I also think Frost and Lynch love the world they created and the story they're telling so I think there's more than that here too.
While watching parts 17 and 18 I was very much reminded of Revolution 1 by The Beatles which includes the lyric:
The uncertainty of the author comes into play here which I think describes a little of what we're seeing.
The end of Part 18 is sort of the harsh reality of the situation after the dream is over. I think though, there is some love for the dream still from the writers, even if they feel we need to confront the reality of the world around us as well
I feel like the point is that we're often trying to remake or relive the past. This season was a harsh push back to that sentiment. If you try to go back things won't be the same, they can't be. In the transition from part 17 to 18 coop pushes too far and is now out of place in what seems to be our present.
So there's an element of these things being discussed here, but I also think Frost and Lynch love the world they created and the story they're telling so I think there's more than that here too.
While watching parts 17 and 18 I was very much reminded of Revolution 1 by The Beatles which includes the lyric:
The uncertainty of the author comes into play here which I think describes a little of what we're seeing.
The end of Part 18 is sort of the harsh reality of the situation after the dream is over. I think though, there is some love for the dream still from the writers, even if they feel we need to confront the reality of the world around us as well
actually yes, that's the main point I left out. I know some people were disappointed in some characters not showing up or getting very little time, but it really comes down to the story Lynch/Frost wanted to tell.