poppos2097
Member
Wanted to add that the season 2 finale's Black Lodge scene had Bob and Cooper's doppelganger looking directly into and grinning/laughing at the camera at different points, as if they could contaminate/break into our reality.
Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End
- Thread starter Joqu
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Wanted to add that the season 2 finale's Black Lodge scene had Bob and Cooper's doppelganger looking directly into and grinning/laughing at the camera at different points, as if they could contaminate/break into our reality.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Does Dick Coop remind anyone else of Chet Desmond? The way he handled the diner reminds me a lot of how Chet handled the police station.
It's like the loop is the same scenario, but in a different town. The key tying it together is the diner? This time "Laura" managed to get BOB before he got her.
That's the reason I'm saying it's Billy. There isn't much to disapprove it
Zoe
Member
plagiarize
Banned
Bleeding from the nose and mouth. This guy is just bleeding from the mouth.
I still think Billy is the truck owner who goes missing in Part 7. That's also the first time we see someone looking for Billy, and it happens after the truck owner (credited as Farmer) fails to show up to meet Andy.
The truck owner says he wasn't driving the truck when it was used to run over the kid. Billy's truck was stolen by Chuck, and later returned. So that lines up pretty nicely.
You can make an argument eitherway, but Billy = Farmer is more convincing to me than Billy = Drunk.
Why wouldn't anyone know where Billy was if he was in prison? Shrug.
Well, Rancho Rosa could be transliterated as Pink Lodge.
31GhostsIV
Banned
This isn't the dead guy in Not-Laura's house?
Following what you just wrote is harder for me than anything in the finale lol
his hair looks different to me but damn I think it's the same outfit
This isn't the dead guy in Not-Laura's house?
31GhostsIV
Banned
Can't both the drunk and the farmer be called Billy? It's Twin Peaks, two characters with the same name is pretty much its thang.
It's a world of truckers. The dead guy's hair is long but wet/greasy, so hard to tell.
It's a world of truckers. The dead guy's hair is long but wet/greasy, so hard to tell.
plagiarize
Banned
This isn't the dead guy in Not-Laura's house?
Shit, if that's the same guy, then I guess that further suggests that he's Billy.
Edit: Not the same shirt (look at the pockets). I don't think it's the same guy.
Feel the Swift
Member
I'm starting to feel this way as well.
I just wanted Coop to have more than 5 minutes together with the Twin Peaks crew at the end of 17
I'm thinking this too. For some reason farmer Billy gets sent into Laura's dream, where she kills him and he spits up a little garmonbozia.
That captures the essence of a good dream. You want to stay but something urgent and inexplicable always seems to pull you away.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Someone commented earlier about how the dead guy's hands are positioned - it's very similar to how 'maybe Billy' holds himself in this scene while he's trying to convince Andy to meet him later.
The part I always remember from that scene was how it was shot - the camera panned around the two. Not sure if it had any significance but It seemed odd for an Andy scene. Also, this is the same timeframe as Andy's Rolex, and he was much more... 'normal' than the Andy we're used to. Much more direct and stern.
Shit... could some of these scenes happened not in the Peaks we know and love, but the Twin Peaks in the reality Cooper entered at the end?
You know, a case could be made that all the Roadhouse scenes take place in that reality too.
I initially liked the last 2 eps, but I've been going more and more negative on it as time goes on.
Some people I think really do like this, but I think there's a lot of almost stockholm syndrome type stuff going on as well. 'Oh no, I totally didn't want a show that was satisfying and told a complete story, that's for idiots' kind of denial. I'm not saying this season had no merits, but I think it was a scattershot experiment - like I said in an earlier post, an arthouse experiment occasionally masquerading as a tv show. There was never any intention to tell a good story here, not a complete one anyway. So I think enjoy it for what it is, but there's no need to project more meaning, intent or structure upon it than is actually there.
Haloid1177
Banned
Wasn't One Punch Guy in one of those though?
31GhostsIV
Banned
Apart from the sweeping and Jean Michel Renault scene, I think I agree with that idea.
Yeah, he was. Hmm.
I think I need to rewatch from the start at some point. (Understandably) lots of current theories gravitate around the ending, but not the full picture.
Going back to Andy though - he acted differently and never brought up the issue again. Next scene with him was the chair buying, I think?
As i've stated many times since the finale... my brain hurts.
Yeah, him and James are kind of the outliers, but if there's multiple Coops and Lauras.....
I'm sorry but if you think Lynch and Frost spent like six years on this just to fuck around idk what to tell you
there are clues all over to try and sort it out. Just like Mulholland Drive, just like Inland Empire.
i think it's just the random conversations between the various women we don't know that take place in audrey's dream, the rest of the roadhouse stuff is consistent with the rest of the show and actually several essential scenes (chad and richard, james and freddie fighting the guy) take place there, so it's not all in a dream
but really it's all just a bunch of random bullshit anyway, so who knows
yeah I'm not expressing an opinion on what the intention of dave and mark was on this one, because my point is basically that i have no idea and i'm pretty suspicious there isn't a point to it. there might have been one at some stage, or maybe there is still and it's just completely buried, but regardless of there being a deeper meaning or not - and this is the important thing, it doesn't matter if we can eventually rubik's cube this season into making sense - i still think this season is basically a huge mess with some good moments, and it isn't worth the effort, it doesn't meet you halfway. basically, it's just not that good.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Twin Peaks: The Return A Podcast has a review of part 18 followed by a Sabrina Sutherland interview: https://soundcloud.com/user-301352257/twin-peaks-the-return-part-18
Entertainment Weekly's TP cast has Kyle on it, FYI
31GhostsIV
Banned
I listened to that last night, Kyle's voice sounded weird!
Madchen Amick - who still looks so great I presume she found the holy grail at some point in her life - is also in on the multiple timeline chatter this evening: https://twitter.com/madchenamick/status/905479841583054848
Yea those are good points but as you said more questions but a good reminder of what is going on in TP world
The 'Three Realities' theory posted a few pages back has gotten me thinking if that was the plan 25 years ago.
The first two seasons of Twin Peaks featured deliberate pastiching of the hammy soap operas of the day. What if Lynch's intention for the 90s Season 3 was to go the extra step and have the characters discover that they were just part of an over-the-top television series?
Now we're here, 26 years later and the television landscape has changed. Big popular TV shows now are in the vein of Lost and its successors, which more closely match the twisty-turny tone of Season 3 than Season 3 does in matching the tone of the first two seasons.
So we reach a conclusion that's no longer influenced by larger-than-life characters and cliffhangers, instead it's influenced by slow-building mystery. Instead of an open ending that could feasibly be resolved in a bombastic next-season-opener, we get an ending open to interpretation that still carries across that central idea that could have been there in the 90s: Was the Twin Peaks reality even real in its own universe?
The first two seasons of Twin Peaks featured deliberate pastiching of the hammy soap operas of the day. What if Lynch's intention for the 90s Season 3 was to go the extra step and have the characters discover that they were just part of an over-the-top television series?
Now we're here, 26 years later and the television landscape has changed. Big popular TV shows now are in the vein of Lost and its successors, which more closely match the twisty-turny tone of Season 3 than Season 3 does in matching the tone of the first two seasons.
So we reach a conclusion that's no longer influenced by larger-than-life characters and cliffhangers, instead it's influenced by slow-building mystery. Instead of an open ending that could feasibly be resolved in a bombastic next-season-opener, we get an ending open to interpretation that still carries across that central idea that could have been there in the 90s: Was the Twin Peaks reality even real in its own universe?
I have an insane, convoluted theory. It's most assuredly wrong, but it was fun to think about.
Coop inadvertently "created" Judy the moment he tried to rescue Laura in 1989. Judy is born from the endless loop of misery Sarah Palmer experiences when the sorrow of losing Laura is stripped away from her. I think this is foreshadowed in Sarah's addiction issues and that loop of the boxing match. Basically, Sarah grows addicted to the "garmonbozia" the trauma she experienced provides, and when that is stripped away from her by Coop, the trauma is increased infinity-fold when she's caught in that loop. In that prison, she transforms into an "extreme negative force," not bound by the constraints of time or reality.
In this form, she even has the power to self-actualize, ensuring that "all proceeds cyclically," and that the object of her pain and sorrow is both born and killed. With the detonation of the atom bomb she gives birth to both BOB and and the frogmoth that will possess her childhood self.
By spiriting Laura away to a new dream reality, she is able to remain in that loop, preventing the rosy future where Laura never dies. With the help of the Fireman and the White Lodge, however, Coop is able to brave this alternate reality and bring Laura home. Doing so breaks the the dream world and the loop, destroying Judy, and ensuring that all of the things she willed into existence never happened.
Sarah calls out to Laura, who wakes from her nightmare with a scream, into a reality where BOB never possessed Leland and Sarah never became Judy.
Coop inadvertently "created" Judy the moment he tried to rescue Laura in 1989. Judy is born from the endless loop of misery Sarah Palmer experiences when the sorrow of losing Laura is stripped away from her. I think this is foreshadowed in Sarah's addiction issues and that loop of the boxing match. Basically, Sarah grows addicted to the "garmonbozia" the trauma she experienced provides, and when that is stripped away from her by Coop, the trauma is increased infinity-fold when she's caught in that loop. In that prison, she transforms into an "extreme negative force," not bound by the constraints of time or reality.
In this form, she even has the power to self-actualize, ensuring that "all proceeds cyclically," and that the object of her pain and sorrow is both born and killed. With the detonation of the atom bomb she gives birth to both BOB and and the frogmoth that will possess her childhood self.
By spiriting Laura away to a new dream reality, she is able to remain in that loop, preventing the rosy future where Laura never dies. With the help of the Fireman and the White Lodge, however, Coop is able to brave this alternate reality and bring Laura home. Doing so breaks the the dream world and the loop, destroying Judy, and ensuring that all of the things she willed into existence never happened.
Sarah calls out to Laura, who wakes from her nightmare with a scream, into a reality where BOB never possessed Leland and Sarah never became Judy.
I have been thinking that, if Sarah was the bug girl (or not, it works either way,) that losing Laura to Leland (and then losing Leland) is what caused Judy to make itself manifest inside of her. That overwhelming grief and suffering must have been absolutely delicious.
so yes, I think Judy/Sarah is doing everything in her power to ensure that Laura does not get saved. You may not be exactly right but I think your idea is right on the money.
so yes, I think Judy/Sarah is doing everything in her power to ensure that Laura does not get saved. You may not be exactly right but I think your idea is right on the money.
bunbun777
Member
I think the black lodge represents the primal spirits, animalistic. The white lodge seems to be enlightened spirits, cosmic. Humans seem to be the bridge with connections to both. The magician attempts to walk between these states. Since the "newest" spirit is the magician child he may be the link to understanding what Judy is attempting to do. Remember Mrs. Tremond didn't like cream corn. Is she Judy's mother? Can Judy be the mother of all the spirits? Or is she the eraser, the nullifier?
I don't actually expect answers but these are the questions that kept coming up to me watching season 3.
Oh and hears a bonus edit:
http://larrydavidlynch.tumblr.com/
I don't actually expect answers but these are the questions that kept coming up to me watching season 3.
Oh and hears a bonus edit:
http://larrydavidlynch.tumblr.com/
31GhostsIV
Banned
This is really cool - from Reddit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_trick_effect
sorry this is a late reply, but i just want to say - yeah man, i know where you're coming from. don't get me wrong, i actually want to like this, that's pretty much why i'm still here. i'm hoping somebody is gonna point out something i missed, or that i'm gonna settle into it more and actually like this thing overall, but i just don't. at least not right now. it's just boring, random and actually kind of dumb, or at least that's how it appears at the moment.
i know it's hit some people just right so i feel a little bad for being this negative voice, i don't mean to ruin anyone's feeling, but i gave it as much energy as those people did so i think i'm as entitled to talk about it as they are.
if there was anything deeper to twin peaks season 3, that's where my mind would be going right now. i'd be looking for it. what i'm saying is, i think it's a black hole. it's a lot of dread and unpleasantry ultimately signifying nothing in particular. tell me i'm wrong. i'd be happy to be wrong.
Doctor Bat
Member
In case anyone likes these things as much as me, I've put together a Google Drive folder of every Showtime-released production still from The Return. I'd been putting a folder together since the season began so it's the highest possible quality I've been able to find. Happy browsing.
I think it has a profound message about the necessity of facing up to pain, the danger of repressing it. It evokes the book of Job and the myth of Orpheus in addressing the eternal mystery of why death and suffering exist. I enjoy the style and technique, but it's staying with me because I think it communicates something true in an honest and mature way.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Is the message to take home from this that..
We, the audience created the tulpa that is/was the world of Twin Peaks? A tulpa doesn't have to be a person right?
We, the audience created the tulpa that is/was the world of Twin Peaks? A tulpa doesn't have to be a person right?
I can't stop listening to the finale credit song. It's by Angelo Badalamenti called "Dark Space Low".
One thing I noticed as my GF was finally watching 18 last night, there was a POV shot from the car driving on the road during the final drive with Richard and Carrie.
As far as I know, the only other time they did a POV car shot like this was when Evil Coop was driving. Maybe there was one when Ray was driving? But either way, I think they only time they showed this previously is when someone bad/evil was driving.
not sure if there's any meaning there.
As far as I know, the only other time they did a POV car shot like this was when Evil Coop was driving. Maybe there was one when Ray was driving? But either way, I think they only time they showed this previously is when someone bad/evil was driving.
not sure if there's any meaning there.
You mean that this season was Lynch's way of saying that the coffee & cherry pie-filled world of S1 & S2 was something that we, the audience made up and that the real world is a gritty, grimy place like the one presented in S3? Was this Lynch's way of telling the TP audience to get real?
rocco's a very engaging speaker, always has been, and i gave him a shot, but i lost him about where he lost himself about 12 minutes into this.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Starting to think the end might be good. Electricity was a bad influence on the Palmer's life, and at the end it went out. That creepy fan will no longer spin. Also, given the whole out of order thing, I'm starting to wonder if some scenes were set after the ending.
the message I've taken from the Return is that no matter what you do, you can't change the past. all the horrible things that have happened to you or to others will always be there, hurting. But that doesn't mean you can't look the future and strive to do good and live happily in spite of these things.
Ed and Norma, Carl, Nadine, Bobby, so many of the characters in this show have been through some shit but even in their old age they make positive changes for themselves and for others to be happy. Cooper does not, Cooper clings to the past and strives to change and eliminate the pain of the past, and that's his undoing.
Don't be like Cooper. Be like Carl!
that's a nice way to put it. i don't fully agree, but my thoughts are changing hour to hour right now.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I keep thinking of this Lynch quote:
"My childhood was elegant homes, tree-lined streets, the milkman, building backyard forts, droning airplanes, blue skies, picket fences, green grass, cherry trees. Middle America as it's supposed to be. But on the cherry tree there's this pitch oozing out – some black, some yellow, and millions of red ants crawling all over it. I discovered that if one looks a little closer at this beautiful world, there are always red ants underneath. Because I grew up in a perfect world, other things were a contrast."
Basically, for every good, there will always be bad. You can't stop it. It will always be with us. You can't ignore it.
You can, and should do good so the world doesn't turn into nothing but ants, but the ants will always be there. For some of us, we can ignore them since we live in a "perfect": world while others are living in the pitch.
Twin Peaks 1990 was more or less the perfect world. Twin Peaks 2017 was getting our faces rubbed in the pitch.
"My childhood was elegant homes, tree-lined streets, the milkman, building backyard forts, droning airplanes, blue skies, picket fences, green grass, cherry trees. Middle America as it's supposed to be. But on the cherry tree there's this pitch oozing out – some black, some yellow, and millions of red ants crawling all over it. I discovered that if one looks a little closer at this beautiful world, there are always red ants underneath. Because I grew up in a perfect world, other things were a contrast."
Basically, for every good, there will always be bad. You can't stop it. It will always be with us. You can't ignore it.
You can, and should do good so the world doesn't turn into nothing but ants, but the ants will always be there. For some of us, we can ignore them since we live in a "perfect": world while others are living in the pitch.
Twin Peaks 1990 was more or less the perfect world. Twin Peaks 2017 was getting our faces rubbed in the pitch.
Also with James on his bike, from FWWM footage.
It always reminds me of Lost Highway.
I don't understand how anyone can believe an ending that lets the utter horror of Laura Palmer ring as loudly as it does, wallowing in her scream, before closing on an image of eternal mystery and shock under mournful music, is a happy one. The electricity may go out in this world, but only because it's jolting everyone to another reality, just as electricity rang out as Audrey was shocked out of her dream.
I suppose viewers are free to live inside a dream should they choose to.
He most explored it there, but he used it prominently in the original Twin Peaks and Wild at Heart. It's one of the signature images of his career.