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[Pitch Black Flint]

A Theory of Cooper, Diane, Lara, and Judy

Has this been discussed yet? It's a very well thought out theory on the finale, but not one I wholly agree with. But for anyone who's looking for a solid conclusion and needs to find closure, this is the best one I've found. They make a really solid point on why the sex scene between Diane and Cooper was so lacking in passion and necessary for the plan to eliminate Judy. I forgot about the connection to the ideas of Aleister Crowley's "Moonchild" and how a ritual was necessary to summon Babylon or "the Mother." Makes a lot more sense now.

Edit: I see that it has. But no harm in having the link at the top of a new page for anyone who hasn't read it yet.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Kyle MacLachlin gets asked the ultimate Twin Peaks question


New interview here.

 

[31GhostsIV]

Here's another interesting theory involving watching part 17 & 18 at the same time (effectively killing two birds with one stone...)

https://medium.com/@onantiad/episod...n-are-meant-to-be-watched-in-sync-81352ce38e8

 

[Chitown B]

There's just a lot of little things that still feel muddled. For instance, Cole somehow knows Jefferies isn't human anymore. How?

uh because in FWWM he disappeared and turned to electricity?

 

[Joqu]

Listening to 'Accident/Farewell Theme' again

I love this

 

[Pizza Luigi]

Here's another interesting theory involving watching part 17 & 18 at the same time (effectively killing two birds with one stone...)

https://medium.com/@onantiad/episod...n-are-meant-to-be-watched-in-sync-81352ce38e8

I am completely torn as to how much we have to analyze Lynch' work.

I absolutely adored season 3 and I think the finale was terrible and amazing at the same time, and I must say I enjoy reading all the theories on the finale and the episode before it. I think there is a certain amount of truth to most of them, but at the same I feel they're idolizing Lynch a bit too much and giving him too much credit.

 

[Vectorman]

Lola
Expect cutters and resellers

Yepppp. Already spotted some haha

 

[Linkin112]

Here's another interesting theory involving watching part 17 & 18 at the same time (effectively killing two birds with one stone...)

https://medium.com/@onantiad/episod...n-are-meant-to-be-watched-in-sync-81352ce38e8

Heh, I actually really like this. Though "Freddie’s GREEN glove matches the GREEN Odessa sign" made me laugh.

 

[EdmondD]

Yeah. Don't tell Showtime, but I'm keeping my subscription until I can buy the series outright. Need to be able to rewatch, you know?

Since you are keeping Showtime may as well watch Ray Donovan right? I mean ya know don't let that subscription go to waste.

 

[Blader]

So something I've never been too clear on all these years is, why is Laura so important? Why is she treated as "the savior"?

She didn't really defeat bob as much as she sacrificed herself to stop him from using her a host.

Cosmically, Laura is a pawn of both the White and Black Lodges. Judy comes into the world and infects Sarah Palmer as a girl. The Fireman creates Laura and sends her down to be born to be a force of love in Sarah's life, which would hold Judy in check (a loving family = very little garmonbozia to live off of). BOB, the child of Judy, meanwhile has infected Leland as a boy. When he's older, Leland abuses Laura and generally makes life for his family hell, which both he and Judy feed off of. Corrupting and destroying the daughter benefits the evil spirits possessing the parents.

But if you boil it all down to the basics, Laura Palmer is just a girl whose life was supremely fucked up by a disturbed family and a sexually abusive father, and was ultimately driven to death as her only escape from that torment. And Cooper is just trying, in two worlds, to make that right.

 

[Linkin112]

Twin Peaks Rewatch finally released their Part 17 and Part 18 podcasts today

 

[Corpsepyre]

What's the best theory regarding Audrey right now?

 

[hughesta]

What's the best theory regarding Audrey right now?

She dreams up a fictional life for herself, then wakes up in a mental hospital at the end of 16

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Here's another interesting theory involving watching part 17 & 18 at the same time (effectively killing two birds with one stone...)

https://medium.com/@onantiad/episod...n-are-meant-to-be-watched-in-sync-81352ce38e8

This one is a bit silly

 

[mariachi507]

They had a very close creative partnership. He wrote the lyrics for her first two albums.
Her freak out honestly points towards mental disturbance. My read is that she is so afraid of what Lynch thinks of her that she is projecting bad intent onto good actions. She has built an elaborate paranoid fantasy, that he would derail an artwork he has spent at least half a decade on right at its climax in order to humiliate her.
Lynch is not above a good slap in the face - but that tends to look like something as absurd as the evolution of The Arm, not as her song's place in history being paid tribute to, at the same time that it is re-imbued with the deep emotions of the best storytelling Lynch and Frost could put together.

I don't want to accuse or anything, but I definitely worry for her after hearing about this controversy and reading all of her Facebook post about it. Much of it was kind of out there, not really legible, and inconsistent. She would talk about being angry at one aspect and then would praise it just a little bit later. She also said she's dying which hopefully is an exaggeration. I didn't know what to think.

 

[EdmondD]

While everyone is talking about the score, I will take this (absolutely) final chance to recommend one goes out of one's way to see Xiu Xiu Plays the Music of Twin Peaks. It is absolutely essential to experience for Twin Peaks friends, I think. It was an unforgettable experience for me and the way they closed the show made me feel worse than the finale.

https://youtu.be/G2Ows9RgtQw?t=285

Wow, this is great. Thanks fam.

 

[Corpsepyre]

She dreams up a fictional life for herself, then wakes up in a mental hospital at the end of 16

And what about all those characters in the Roadhouse talking about people we have never heard off before, like Billy, Tina, Chuck, etc? That a part of it?

 

[Blader]

Why would Audrey be in a mental hospital though?

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Why would Audrey be in a mental hospital though?

Billy put her in there

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Here's another interesting theory involving watching part 17 & 18 at the same time (effectively killing two birds with one stone...)

https://medium.com/@onantiad/episod...n-are-meant-to-be-watched-in-sync-81352ce38e8

This is good, but could have been more concisely written, IMO. The theory earlier in the thread is what let me get closest to closing the book on what happened in the finale.

 

[jon_i634]

Twin Peaks Rewatch finally released their Part 17 and Part 18 podcasts today

Oh man, three hours worth of podcast! Excited to dig into it. I love the way the Idle Thumbs team tackle this show. They are very concise and can speak intelligently about the show in a way that I don't get from other podcasts.

 

[Flipyap]

Why would Audrey be in a mental hospital though?

Because she's got emotional problems; it runs in the family. Do you like my ring?

 

[Zoe]

And what about all those characters in the Roadhouse talking about people we have never heard off before, like Billy, Tina, Chuck, etc? That a part of it?

Possibly the staff at the hospital talking about their days.

Why would Audrey be in a mental hospital though?

Never fully recovered from the bank explosion.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Kyle MacLachlin gets asked the ultimate Twin Peaks question


New interview here.

It's interesting that people are still referring to there being three Coopers, when the finale added a fourth - even if it's technically still Dale Cooper.

 

[Slaythe]

It's interesting that people are still referring to there being three Coopers, when the finale added a fourth - even if it's technically still Dale Cooper.

You mean sixth.

Cooper

C

Dougie C

Cooper Dougie

Dougie Cooper

Dark "Richard" Cooper


Now to be fair I do not see the last Cooper as a new being, because it is Cooper... But I guess "Dougie" was also Cooper, just asleep, that being said, I draw the line at "keeps his memories, will, and control of his body".

 

[Not Spaceghost]

It's interesting that people are still referring to there being three Coopers, when the finale added a fourth - even if it's technically still Dale Cooper.

I think most are only counting:
Original Coop
Doppleganger / BOB coop / Mr C
Richard Coop

Dougie is more of his own character than a variation on coop.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

You mean sixth.

Cooper

C

Dougie C

Cooper Dougie

Dougie Cooper

Dark "Richard" Cooper


Now to be fair I do not see the last Cooper as a new being, because it is Cooper... But I guess "Dougie" was also Cooper, just asleep, that being said, I draw the line at "keeps his memories, will, and control of his body".

Fair point, I didn't think to include some of those Coops. But there's such a night-and-day divide between fresh-out-of-the-coma Coop and episode 18 Coop that from an acting perspective, it must be a completely different headspace.

 

[ActWan]

OK WTF. I didn't noitce it in the episode (10) at all...

Who the hell is this man???

 

[EGM1966]

Fair point, I didn't think to include some of those Coops. But there's such a night-and-day divide between fresh-out-of-the-coma Coop and episode 18 Coop that from an acting perspective, it must be a completely different headspace.

Pretty sure Kyle noted he played - in his view - four roles with one being very brief. Thus i guess in terms of performance he saw himself as given four distinct performances so I presume he saw some as repeating (i.e. the new Dougie who appears doesn't count as a new performance for him).

 

[homelessbaby]

Anyone notice in Part 18, after they crossover, the camera doing that subtle floaty thing Lynch does in Mulholland Drive (possibly to imply a dream)?

 

[Corpsepyre]

OK WTF. I didn't noitce it in the episode (10) at all...


Who the hell is this man???

I think it's Audrey's husband. He's a mysterious character, and it's possible it's the same person in the photo here. Maybe Audrey is in his care, and is in some sort off mental prison. Would make sense that Mr.C would be involved here too as he supposedly raped her, and would entrust her to someone he's working with.

 

[mariachi507]

I'm just on track 3, Accident/Farewell, and this soundtrack is already my new favorite thing. Angelo is a God.

 

[hussmk]

I know Dougie had an accident and that indeed explains that he was already "weird" or different, but he seemed to be weirder than before. As a caring wife, I would want to get to the bottom of that.

Furthermore, you are correct that he was not a good husband. He did gamble and she knew that and hated that. I am not sure however if she knew that he also cheated? And maybe the marriage between old Dougie and Janey-E was so bad, that they didn't have sex so Dougie went to prostitutes (she was a prostitute right, from what I remember?)?

However, when Dougie became good looking and rich all was forgotten? As soon as she found out about the money, she completely changed. Dougie was as passive as possible, so I wouldn't define that either as caring or as a warm personality. To me at least it seemed she seemed to be very superficial and just in for it for the looks and the money.

Janey-E wasn't the only one who got used to Dougie's passiveness quickly; literally everybody else did. The story simply wouldn't have worked otherwise, it's got nothing to do with her being a good wife or not imo.

I got the impression that she knew or suspected that he was cheating on her because she wasn't THAT shocked when she saw the photograph of him and Jade. It clearly wasn't a happy marriage and considering that he's a tupla of Bad Cooper, I think it'd be fair to assume that none of it was Janey-E's fault.

Dougie didn't only become good looking and rich though; he transformed into an entirely different person. I love Dougie and I think he was the best character in S3. He exhumes innocence and warmth without saying much; and most importantly, he's not the bum the original Dougie seemed to be.

 

[Flipyap]

I think it's Audrey's husband. He's a mysterious character, and it's possible it's the same person in the photo here.

That doesn't seem possible, unless you're suggesting that "New York Charlie" was played by a different dude.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Do you think Lynch and Frost will work on season 4? Where do you think they can go from here? Have Coop/Laura work out what's going on after Laura's awakening at the end of the finale, with Audrey tossed into the mix?

 

[Corpsepyre]

That doesn't seem possible, unless you're suggesting that "New York Charlie" was played by a different dude.

With Lynch, dopples and what not, who's to say, really?

 

[True Savior]

I am completely torn as to how much we have to analyze Lynch' work.

We don't have to analyze it at all. There are very few filmmakers as candid as David Lynch when talking about his own movies, and although he doesn't address the rationale some people put behind is own works, he is extremely explicit in what they ambition. To elicit a response. A more emotional and/or rational one, whatever. It will probably be different from person to person. And that's his work. This is many times mistaken as some kind of pretentiousness, which is really bizarre as there is nothing breakthrough about art eliciting responses and affecting us without adhering to some kind of strict reality or rationale. Obviously this clashes with a mentality, very ingrained in todays popular discussions, of a puzzle-mania where motion pictures and shows exist within a frame of dots all waiting to be connected.

There is nothing anyone can put on paper that will change how I felt when I watched episode 18. A sense of dread, of a negativity that seemed to repress the existence of the characters we knew. A Cooper robbed of a part of his humanity and a traumatic remembrance that makes Laura Palmer suffer through eternity. It's natural there are other ways to interpret what we've seen and how each of us felt, but at the end of the day it's that personal experience that matters. And not many filmmakers have that ability to probe into our psyche and makes us respond so viscerally. To some it might be just straight boredom, as you have probably read through this thread.

Hell, I still have a hard time remembering half the terms mentioned in any twin peaks discussion. I would probably bet Lynch would need as much aid as myself to remember them 😂

 

[hughesta]

I just want Lynch to make something else. After this fantastic ending I'd rather it not be TP, but whatever the man wants to do, I'd like to see.

 

[Vectorman]

Angelo's new compositions are truly gifts from above. So much talent.

Spoiler

If only Lynch used him more, damnit.

 

[Dan-o]

I just want Lynch to make something else. After this fantastic ending I'd rather it not be TP, but whatever the man wants to do, I'd like to see.

I said this to my wife yesterday too. I'm happy with the ending for TP. I just want one more film from Lynch before he officially retires, or worse.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Turns out the bookstore I frequent has a copy of Frost's Secret History of Twin Peaks. Thinking of grabbing it. What am I in for?

 

[jett]

A Theory of Cooper, Diane, Lara, and Judy

Has this been discussed yet? It's a very well thought out theory on the finale, but not one I wholly agree with. But for anyone who's looking for a solid conclusion and needs to find closure, this is the best one I've found. They make a really solid point on why the sex scene between Diane and Cooper was so lacking in passion and necessary for the plan to eliminate Judy. I forgot about the connection to the ideas of Aleister Crowley's "Moonchild" and how a ritual was necessary to summon Babylon or "the Mother." Makes a lot more sense now.

Edit: I see that it has. But no harm in having the link at the top of a new page for anyone who hasn't read it yet.

That seems like a big ol' stretch.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Turns out the bookstore I frequent has a copy of Frost's Secret History of Twin Peaks. Thinking of grabbing it. What am I in for?

Weird American History as told by Mark Frost

 

[Solo]

Random questions or thoughts. Still unpacking everything haha.

- So we are in a consensus that ALL of Judy/Mother/Experiment/Jumping Man/Fake Jeffries/Sarah Palmer are one and the same?

- Ben Horne heard the ringing at the hotel. So did James. Turns out it was for Room 315 where Coop entered to access the convenience store. What I'm wondering is why did the room key not open the 315 room door, but rather a door in essentially the boiler room?

- Red. Obviously there are tons of plot threads left hanging, but I found his particularly bizarre given his screen time with Shelley and Richard.

- I don't know why I'm just realizing it now, but Judy was working against Mr C the whole time, trying to capture and return him to the Black Lodge so that she could get back her son, Mr C's passenger, BOB. How did I not pick up on that?

 

[Corpsepyre]

Random questions or thoughts. Still unpacking everything haha.

- So we are in a consensus that ALL of Judy/Mother/Experiment/Jumping Man/Fake Jeffries/Sarah Palmer are one and the same?

- Ben Horne heard the ringing at the hotel. So did James. Turns out it was for Room 315 where Coop entered to access the convenience store. What I'm wondering is why did the room key not open the 315 room door, but rather a door in essentially the boiler room?

- Red. Obviously there are tons of plot threads left hanging, but I found his particularly bizarre given his screen time with Shelley and Richard.

- I don't know why I'm just realizing it now, but Judy was working against Mr C the whole time, trying to capture and return him to the Black Lodge so that she could get back her son, Mr C's passenger, BOB. How did I not pick up on that?

Incest and all. Makes sense.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Random questions or thoughts. Still unpacking everything haha.

- So we are in a consensus that ALL of Judy/Mother/Experiment/Jumping Man/Fake Jeffries/Sarah Palmer are one and the same?

- Ben Horne heard the ringing at the hotel. So did James. Turns out it was for Room 315 where Coop entered to access the convenience store. What I'm wondering is why did the room key not open the 315 room door, but rather a door in essentially the boiler room?

- Red. Obviously there are tons of plot threads left hanging, but I found his particularly bizarre given his screen time with Shelley and Richard.

- I don't know why I'm just realizing it now, but Judy was working against Mr C the whole time, trying to capture and return him to the Black Lodge so that she could get back her son, Mr C's passenger, BOB. How did I not pick up on that?

I don't know that all those things are one and the same, but they are definitely connected on a very fundamental level.

It looked to me like the room that Coop entered was part of an old, defunct wing of the hotel in disrepair. Maybe the boiler room is located in that wing, apart from the more modern and maintained part of the hotel?

In addition to what Corpsepyre said, I've got a bit of stretch: The Return uses the song Sleepwalk by Santo & Johnny, which was used in the movie Sleepwalkers - an adaptation of a Stephen King novel about the incestuous relationship between a mother and son. Interestingly enough, one of the main characters is played by Madchen Amick.

 

[jstripes]

I've we've gained anything at all from the Twin Peaks revival, let's hope aspiring directors have been influenced by its slow and deliberate pacing, and its lingering on otherwise meaningless world-building moments.

 

[fade_]

- Red. Obviously there are tons of plot threads left hanging, but I found his particularly bizarre given his screen time with Shelley and Richard.

Not as bizarre as Cooper not even mentioning Annie once.

 

[Flipyap]

Random questions or thoughts. Still unpacking everything haha.

- So we are in a consensus that ALL of Judy/Mother/Experiment/Jumping Man/Fake Jeffries/Sarah Palmer are one and the same?

- Ben Horne heard the ringing at the hotel. So did James. Turns out it was for Room 315 where Coop entered to access the convenience store. What I'm wondering is why did the room key not open the 315 room door, but rather a door in essentially the boiler room?
(...)
- I don't know why I'm just realizing it now, but Judy was working against Mr C the whole time, trying to capture and return him to the Black Lodge so that she could get back her son, Mr C's passenger, BOB. How did I not pick up on that?

- No. Sarah Palmer didn't miss Doop in New York and the idea that the Experiment or Judy like to have mundane phone conversations is simply comical and cheapens the whole thing.

- Because that's just how things work in dreams, I guess.

- Because that's not an idea that was introduced on this show. If the black symbol is Judy, the doppelganger is already looking for it himself.

 

[hughesta]

on rewatch, this line from Lucy really caught my attention

"One time, the hands on the clock stopped moving. We didn't know what time it was. It felt like it was forever."