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[DragoonKain]

Harris has/had literally the worst case of TDS I've ever seen.

Sad to see how badly it impacted his ethics and thinking, tragic in fact.

Don't agree with this at all. Sam may be hyperbolic in his analogies at times, but his concerns are very grounded, and have proven to be more and more as time has gone on. But if you listen to him speak at length about his concerns and not little snippets from him appearing on random podcasts, you'd know where he stands is very in line with his overall views and his views haven't changed. It has been very disingenuously portrayed otherwise on social media by bad faith actors.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

Kind of crazy to think that none of this should even be happening right now because Twitter was supposed to have gone down over a week ago.

Maybe none of this is actually happening and we are just glitching out the matrix

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Hasn't this been public knowledge for years?

Didn't they go to legal war with Fortnite over it?

Of course it’s public knowledge and is pretty standard for other store fronts (though I think Epic’s is lower?)

But now he’s in “berate advertisers for pulling their ads by bringing up irrelevant stuff we all know and making straw man arguments.”


Exhibit whatever:


…yes I’m sure one of the best companies when it comes to protecting customer privacy is saying yikes because they’re anti free speech…

 

[strange headache]

So have we now reached the point where we need to defend Apple, the company that is literally exploiting Chinese factory workers, in order to screech against Musk?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/i-hope-you-guys-got-your-fruit-phone-there-might-be-shortages.1646163/

Apple's draconian walled garden eco-system, it's price-gauging about accessories and the sheer refusal to grant users a right to repair is testimony to how much that company really cares about people... literally ZERO.

But directly going after Apple publicly for their valid concerns? He's lost it.

"Valid concerns" my arse.

 

[FunkMiller]

Now, does this mean removing Twitter from all iPhones that already have it… or stopping new downloads?

 

[IntentionalPun]

So have we now reached the point where we need to defend Apple, the company that is literally exploiting Chinese factory workers, in order to screech against Musk?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/i-hope-you-guys-got-your-fruit-phone-there-might-be-shortages.1646163/

"Valid concerns" my arse.

Hey, look at this thing over there that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Every company on the planet has a right to advertise where they want to.. and yes I believe app stores should have the right to moderate their own stores.. like every other store on planet earth who can decide what products to sell/not to sell.

I'll defend Apple's actions when it comes to the things I support, because that's called being logically consistent.

I would not defend them doing things I do not support.

Crazy how that works.

 

[FunkMiller]

So have we now reached the point where we need to defend Apple, the company that is literally exploiting Chinese factory workers, in order to screech against Musk?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/i-hope-you-guys-got-your-fruit-phone-there-might-be-shortages.1646163/

Apple's draconian walled garden eco-system, it's price-gauging about accessories and the sheer refusal to grant users a right to repair is testimony to how much that company really cares about people... literally ZERO.



"Valid concerns" my arse.

Now… here me out here:

What if they’re actually both awful?

 

[Nobody_Important]

"Valid concerns" my arse.

Advertisers being concerned over the content moderation of the sites they advertise on is completely valid regardless of how you feel about it.

 

[Clear]

Don't agree with this at all. Sam may be hyperbolic in his analogies at times, but his concerns are very grounded, and have proven to be more and more as time has gone on. But if you listen to him speak at length about his concerns and not little snippets from him appearing on random podcasts, you'd know where he stands is very in line with his overall views and his views haven't changed. It has been very disingenuously portrayed otherwise on social media by bad faith actors.

No. The man made an argument that it'd be justified to sacrifice democratic process in order to ensure that Trump was not re-elected. That's insanely unethical, especially for someone who had formerly positioned himself a champion of Western and enlightenment values.

It was simply irrational hyper-reactionary nonsense.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Now… here me out here:

What if they’re actually both awful?

Well, if i had to pick one to go down in flames, i'd still pick apple.

 

[strange headache]

Hey, look at this thing over there that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Every company on the planet has a right to advertise where they want to.. and yes I believe app stores should have the right to moderate their own stores.. like every other store on planet earth who can decide what products to sell/not to sell.

I'll defend Apple's actions when it comes to the things I support, because that's called being logically consistent.

I would not defend them doing things I do not support.

Crazy how that works.

Funny how you suddenly care about mean words on Twitter when the company you're championing to do so is standing on literal slave labor. That's not logically consistent.
If anything Apple is the absolute anti-thesis to consumer interest.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Now, does this mean removing Twitter from all iPhones that already have it… or stopping new downloads?

I could be wrong but I remember seeing somewhere awhile back that the app will still work for those that already have it, but they will no longer recieve updates. So it would work.....but probably not for long.

Especially in Twitters case with "Twitter 2.0" on the way.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Funny how you suddenly care about mean words on Twitter when the company you're championing to do so is standing on literal slave labor. That's not logically consistent.
If anything Apple is the absolute anti-thesis to consumer interest.

I'm not championing a company.

I'm standing by my beliefs of what companies should/shouldn't be able to do.

We aren't talking about slave labor here.

Mostly just making fun of Musk's stupid ass decisions.. and not championing anything really.

Do you think companies should be forced to advertise on every advertising platform on earth? Do you think app stores shouldn't be able to moderate what apps are on their store?

 

[FunkMiller]

I could be wrong but I remember seeing somewhere awhile back that the app will still work for those that already have it, but they will no longer recieve updates. So it would work.....but probably not for long.

Especially in Twitters case with "Twitter 2.0" on the way.

Oh well. That would indeed kill it then. Elon should probably tread carefully from now on. Especially because I could quite easily see Bezos preventing Twitter on all his devices too.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Funny how you suddenly care about mean words on Twitter when the company you're championing to do so is standing on literal slave labor. That's not logically consistent.
If anything Apple is the absolute anti-thesis to consumer interest.

Apple being trash has no bearing on them also being right.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Funny how you suddenly care about mean words on Twitter when the company you're championing to do so is standing on literal slave labor. That's not logically consistent.
If anything Apple is the absolute anti-thesis to consumer interest.

Big difference is that social media is something that can be in your face.

Anything to do with slave labour shoes, smartphones, diamond mining, illegal immigrants picking fruit etc.... are never brought up because it's out of sight and mind. As long as consumer x can get his spiffy iPhone and Nike shoes, that consumer will never care about who makes it in Asia or Africa.

 

[strange headache]

Apple being trash has no bearing on them also being right.

Oh yes it does, it demonstrates how phony their virtue signaling really is. I'd say human rights and decent working conditions are a way higher priority than mean tweets on social media.
Why would you trust Apple with anything, especially in this case?

Anything to do with slave labour shoes, smartphones, diamond mining, illegal immigrants picking fruit etc.... are never brought up because it's out of sight and mind. As long as consumer x can get his spiffy iPhone and Nike shoes, that consumer will never care about who makes it in Asia or Africa.

QFT!

 

[FunkMiller]

This is where he's being very foolish:




Communicate directly with Apple like a mature businessman, instead of trying to do it on the bloody platform itself, like a shitposting teenager in his mother's basement.

All it's going to do is hasten the downfall.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Oh yes it does, it demonstrates how phony their virtue signaling really is. I'd say human rights and decent working conditions are a way higher priority than mean tweets on social media.

You are basically saying that because that have a shit history they are not allowed to be correct.


That's ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

So have we now reached the point where we need to defend Apple, the company that is literally exploiting Chinese factory workers, in order to screech against Musk?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/i-hope-you-guys-got-your-fruit-phone-there-might-be-shortages.1646163/

Apple's draconian walled garden eco-system, it's price-gauging about accessories and the sheer refusal to grant users a right to repair is testimony to how much that company really cares about people... literally ZERO.



"Valid concerns" my arse.

lmfao bro, Apple is scaling back because the platform is owned by someone who drinks diet caffeine free Coke and he responded by loading up RandyMarshIThoughtThisWasAmerica.gif and you seem like you’re seething about it.

 

[Kraz]

who cares what he's thinking

Those employed by him might care. Those that advertise might care. Those that invest might care. He's got a lot of fans that care. The spectacle of Musk's Downfall makes people care.

A rare few might care if it gives any insight into what "suicide of civilization" means and if this is part of it.

 

[IntentionalPun]

This thread is about Twitter and the situation they are in w/ the takeover going poorly.

That's what this thread is about.. not slave labor.

Done engaging with that bullshit.

 

[strange headache]

Advertisers being concerned over the content moderation of the sites they advertise on is completely valid regardless of how you feel about it.

This thread is about Twitter and the situation they are in w/ the takeover going poorly.

It's obvious concern trolling.

So why don't advertisers care about Apple exploiting factory workers?
I think we all know why...

 

[Kraz]

This thread is about Twitter and the situation they are in w/ the takeover going poorly.

That's what this thread is about.. not slave labor.

Done engaging with that bullshit.

It's obvious concern trolling.

 

[DeepEnigma]

…yes I’m sure one of the best companies when it comes to protecting customer privacy is saying yikes because they’re anti free speech…

Based Apple. They super protect the citizens of China.

Censorship, Surveillance and Profits: A Hard Bargain for Apple in China

Apple built the world’s most valuable business on top of China. Now it has to answer to the Chinese government.

web.archive.org

 

[DragoonKain]

No. The man made an argument that it'd be justified to sacrifice democratic process in order to ensure that Trump was not re-elected. That's insanely unethical, especially for someone who had formerly positioned himself a champion of Western and enlightenment values.

It was simply irrational hyper-reactionary nonsense.

No, I don't believe he said that. I believe he said he'd be ok if Twitter censored certain things on the platform that favored candidates, which, in itself, is not the interfering with the democratic process. The democratic process is voting, and Sam Harris never has advocating preventing people from voting. Twitter can allow whatever they want on their platform pre or post Elon Musk. And while I may disagree with some of the things they do with their platform, I agree with Sam that we can't have governments telling platforms they have to allow certain things.

Having outside entities tell an individual what they can and cannot allow or censor on their platform is a slippery slope I don't think anyone wants to go down, and that's what Sam was arguing. And I agree with him on that. I'm someone who believes in free speech, but I also believe in autonomy, and I believe companies should have the freedom to allow or disallow whatever they want in their companies or platforms. And if you don't like it? Don't go on the platform. It's that simple.

Btw, one of Sam's most contentious podcast episodes, where he had to edit in an apology to the viewers after the fact, is a podcast that got heated because he defended Trump. And Sam loathes the guy. But he defended him, because he believed his guest was misrepresenting certain things Trump said in certain situations. That's not what someone with TDS does. Someone with TDS will not challenge something that is said about someone you hate. They'll just go along with it even if it isn't true because it supports their agenda. Sam is one of the people level-headed enough to hate someone, but if someone says something about that person that isn't true, he'll say "Hold on a second..."

 

[Nobody_Important]

Somebody that gets it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No, I don't believe he said that. I believe he said he'd be ok if Twitter censored certain things on the platform that favored candidates, which, in itself, is not the interfering with the democratic process. The democratic process is voting, and Sam Harris never has advocating preventing people from voting. Twitter can allow whatever they want on their platform pre or post Elon Musk. And while I may disagree with some of the things they do with their platform, I agree with Sam that we can't have governments telling platforms they have to allow certain things.

Having outside entities tell an individual what they can and cannot allow or censor on their platform is a slippery slope I don't think anyone wants to go down, and that's what Sam was arguing. And I agree with him on that. I'm someone who believes in free speech, but I also believe in autonomy, and I believe companies should have the freedom to allow or disallow whatever they want in their companies or platforms. And if you don't like it? Don't go on the platform. It's that simple.

Btw, one of Sam's most contentious podcast episodes, where he had to edit in an apology to the viewers after the fact, is a podcast that got heated because he defended Trump. And Sam loathes the guy. But he defended him, because he believed his guest was misrepresenting certain things Trump said in certain situations. That's not what someone with TDS does. Someone with TDS will not challenge something that is said about someone you hate. They'll just go along with it even if it isn't true because it supports their agenda. Sam is one of the people level-headed enough to hate someone, but if someone says something about that person that isn't true, he'll say "Hold on a second..."

The man literally said he was okay with collusion and lack of election integrity if it was to remove his TDS from office. I watched the show he said it on.

It also gives one a whole new perspective on how certain authoritarian powers were able to rise in history when a portion of the populace where disillusioned to give that up based on the marketing they've been consuming.

 

[strange headache]

Somebody that gets it.

Oh look it's the "they are a private company and can do whatever they like" narrative again.
Strange how that tired mantra somehow doesn't apply to Twitter anymore now that Musk owns it.

 

[Kraz]

So why don't advertisers care about Apple exploiting factory workers?
I think we all know why...

Because of some victim complex where you're actually the repressed one?

 

[IntentionalPun]

Oh look it's the "they are a private company and can do whatever they like" narrative again.
Strange how that tired mantra somehow doesn't apply to Twitter anymore now that Musk owns it.

But they can't do whatever they want and that tweet didn't claim they could?

The "Free speech" shit being thrown around is just moronic because Twitter doesn't allow lots of "speech" that is perfectly legal. Musk has basically claimed nothing is changing there... so what the fuck is he even going on about?

He just throws free speech around when it's convenient to rile up people on one hand, and then turns around and claims Twitter hasn't changed anything moderation wise when that is convenient. Just blatant unbridled hypocrisy.. really just dishonesty.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

What exactly is Musk’s goal with Apple—I doubt they will want to give Twitter money after today. So like what exactly is his goal?

 

[FunkMiller]

Oh look it's the "they are a private company and can do whatever they like" narrative again.
Strange how that tired mantra somehow doesn't apply to Twitter anymore now that Musk owns it.

Well. It's not incorrect.

You may not like it. I may not like it. We all might not like it. But it's the plain fact of the matter that Apple can do whatever the hell they want in the context of supporting Twitter or otherwise. That's the free market. They only really need to concern themselves with their shareholders, and customer base. If they decide removing Twitter will not come at a great cost to the company, then bye bye Elon.

This is something he really should understand, and take into consideration with any decisions he makes about the platform.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Those employed by him might care. Those that advertise might care. Those that invest might care. He's got a lot of fans that care. The spectacle of Musk's Downfall makes people care.

A rare few might care if it gives any insight into what "suicide of civilization" means and if this is part of it.

If you're worried about the crumbling of modern civilization and our institutions, you're mighty late to the party

 

[GeorgioCostanzaX]

Not the most sophisticated PR campaign I’ve ever seen…

It’s ironic how much damage the platform can do by providing all the rope one could ever need to hang one’s self. All he had to do was sit back and shut up instead of picking fights with the gatekeepers to the App Store. Twitter is not the most popular social network but it’s easily the most dominant source of free referral traffic to larger news organizations: that’s its super power not ads.

 

[FunkMiller]

What exactly is Musk’s goal with Apple—I doubt they will want to give Twitter money after today. So like what exactly is his goal?

I just think he's started sniffing his own farts too much. The 'crusade' appears to have become more important than running a sustainable business.

 

[Vestal]

What exactly is Musk’s goal with Apple—I doubt they will want to give Twitter money after today. So like what exactly is his goal?

Doesn’t make much sense. Maybe sue Apple for anti-competitive practice for removing twitter? Although exhibit A would be todays tweet's.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Based Apple. They super protect the citizens of China.

Censorship, Surveillance and Profits: A Hard Bargain for Apple in China

Apple built the world’s most valuable business on top of China. Now it has to answer to the Chinese government.

web.archive.org

It’s almost like the devil is in the details

An Apple spokesman said that the company still controlled the keys that protect the data of its Chinese customers and that Apple used its most advanced encryption technology in China — more advanced than what it used in other countries.

Apple added that it removed apps only to comply with Chinese laws. “These decisions are not always easy, and we may not agree with the laws that shape them,” the company said. “But our priority remains creating the best user experience without violating the rules we are obligated to follow.”

If you’ve ever had to bend over backwards for international compliance, you’d know there’s probably more to the story than just the headline that seems to confirm what you already believe.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

I just think he's started sniffing his own farts too much. The 'crusade' appears to have become more important than running a sustainable business.

I feel like he’s been anti-advertising since his other companies don’t market the same way most companies do. I’d love to see advertising slip away but something sustainable would need to take its place.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It’s almost like the devil is in the details



If you’ve ever had to bend over backwards for international compliance, you’d know there’s probably more to the story than just the headline that seems to confirm what you already believe.

Yes, the devil is in the details, indeed.

Chinese state employees physically manage the computers. Apple abandoned the encryption technology it used elsewhere after China would not allow it. And the digital keys that unlock information on those computers are stored in the data centers they’re meant to secure.

 

[Kraz]

If you're worried about the crumbling of modern civilization and our institutions, you're mighty late to the party

While eschatology is a long time personal interest, in this matter I'm wondering what Musk meant about the woke mind virus, entertainment and the suicide of civilization. It sound spicy.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

What exactly is Musk’s goal with Apple—I doubt they will want to give Twitter money after today. So like what exactly is his goal?

He’s full of himself and thinks the only reason someone could doubt what he’s doing is they themselves must be full of shit, so he goes on the attack.

I don’t think he’s as deranged as a full of narcissist (yet…?) but he does seem to be an egomaniac

 

[strange headache]

Well. It's not incorrect.

You may not like it. I may not like it. We all might not like it. But it's the plain fact of the matter that Apple can do whatever the hell they want in the context of supporting Twitter or otherwise. That's the free market. They only really need to concern themselves with their shareholders, and customer base. If they decide removing Twitter will not come at a great cost to the company, then bye bye Elon.

This is something he really should understand.

For sure, Apple can do whatever it wants. I'm merely shaking my head in disbelief that people would defend their actions only to rile against Musk. You know, the very same company responsible for this:



Funny how the media and advertisers don't care about this, but hey at least our tweets are "safe" again. The narrative being spun here is just absolutely appalling. People need to get their priorities straight again. If this were truly about people's protection, advertisers would have pulled away from Apple a long time ago for exploiting its workers.

It's funny how most companies who pull away from Twitter belong to ESG:



Make you think about the REAL interests behind this coordinated effort to dismantle Musk.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Oh look it's the "they are a private company and can do whatever they like" narrative again.
Strange how that tired mantra somehow doesn't apply to Twitter anymore now that Musk owns it.

Jesus fucking Christ dude.

Literally NO ONE is saying that Musk "CAN'T" do the things he is wanting to do other than the fact that it literally breaks the law in the EU. They will say he can't and by the letter of the law they are right and he will have to work within their rules or Twitter will be blocked there. Everyone else in here is saying that he SHOULDN'T be doing these things not that he can't do them. That's not the same thing.

He is making bad decisions regarding the moderation of the site, but it's HIS site. He can do that if he wants. Eveyone in here gets that, but he has to deal with the consequences of his actions just like everyone else. The consequences being that not many companies and advertisers wants to be associated with a site that has little to no moderation of the content that it hosts.


So yes he can do whatever he wants with his site. Companies are not obligated to be okay with it and continue to support the site financially. Both things are true.

 

[FunkMiller]

I feel like he’s been anti-advertising since his other companies don’t market the same way most companies do. I’d love to see advertising slip away but something sustainable would need to take its place.

He's fine, unless the likes of Apple and Google do remove Twitter. Then he's fucked. But nothing short of that will actually bring Twitter down, I don't think. Maybe that's what he's banking on. I still don't think conducting your little war against Tim in public is all that good an idea, though.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Yes, the devil is in the details, indeed.

…and? The problem with these sorts of articles is these things are positioned like they appear refute the company’s response when they don’t. You’d need more details to understand if that’s actually a problem, or contradictory or not.

 

[DeepEnigma]

…and? The problem with these sorts of articles is these things are positioned like they appear refute the company’s response when they don’t. You’d need more details to understand if that’s actually a problem, or contradictory or not.

LOL, okay.

 

[FunkMiller]

For sure, Apple can do whatever it wants. I'm merely shaking my head in disbelief that people would defend their actions only to rile against Musk. You know, the very same company responsible for this:
Funny how the media and advertisers don't care about this, but hey at least our tweets are "safe" again. The narrative being spun here is just absolutely appalling. People need to get their priorities straight again. If this were truly about people's protection, advertisers would have pulled away from Apple a long time ago for exploiting its workers.

It's funny how most companies who pull away from Twitter belong to ESG:

Make you think about the REAL interests behind this coordinated effort to dismantle Musk.

Yep. Apple have some horrifying business practices.

But if they want to kill Twitter because Musk isn't instituting what they see as decent enough moderation of content, they will. Elon can have his free speech, free action libertarianism, but Apple have the same right to it as well.

And of course, major corporations will do anything they can to fuck the other guy. That's business.

 

[Vestal]

LOL, okay.

I do find interesting the publication you are taking at face value given your other views.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I feel like he’s been anti-advertising since his other companies don’t market the same way most companies do. I’d love to see advertising slip away but something sustainable would need to take its place.

The only thing that could replace advertising on Twitter is if the entire site became a subscription service and that would never work. Not only would you have to convince people that Twitter is worth paying for (good luck lol) but you would need enough people willing to pay to make it profitable and then on top of that you would need ENOUGH people to make the site worth it in the first place.

He needs the advertisers. There is no other way.