shira
Member
Exactly
U.S. healthcare system horror stories?
- Thread starter Puddles
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Patrick Bateman
Member
Wow, I really thought you were serious.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
Goddamn.
Angry Fork
Member
So tell me what it is so I can answer?
WHAT IF AN OUTBREAK OF X940 HAPPENS AND EVERYONE IS ABOUT TO DIE SHOULD WE GIVE HEALTHCARE TO ALL THEN!?!?! HMMM!!?!??!
How does that work? Did they threaten to repossess your baby's pacifier?
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
I think she's saying type 2 diabetes. Which is often caused by obesity.
Well i'll be honest and say that you're a stand up dude for not opening your daughters mail. You could get in trouble.
The funny thing is that schoolbooks here describe universal healthcare as one of the things that a society can't live without, just like roads and public transportation.
Billing a baby for her own delivery is one of the most immoral things I have ever heard of, especially since the mother was fully insured. Crazy stuff.
Angry Fork
Member
Perhaps America should stop making such fatty shitty cheap food. Why kill off healthcare for normal people when you can instead launch brutal ugly in your face campaigns in schools (and everywhere else in general) to prevent obesity and teach people how to make decent food at home.
I'm not obese and I can't afford health insurance right now. I shouldn't be fucked over just because you want to teach fat people a lesson. I don't hold anything against them. People hate being fat, they know they're fat and they want to lose weight. They get depressed and eat more because they feel it's hopeless. Punishing them more by denying them health if they become sick isn't going to do anything but help them die quicker. If you're okay with that then let's just kill everyone who we deem to be dragging down society.
edit - Also if it ever became such an epidemic that prices would soar, people's taxes would go up etc. then people would get angry enough to start shitting on fat people anyway. So that would hopefully be enough to get them to lose weight. If the government came out and said 'hey healthcare costs will go up unless fat people lose weight' then that'll be enough of an incentive right there.
I'm not obese and I can't afford health insurance right now. I shouldn't be fucked over just because you want to teach fat people a lesson. I don't hold anything against them. People hate being fat, they know they're fat and they want to lose weight. They get depressed and eat more because they feel it's hopeless. Punishing them more by denying them health if they become sick isn't going to do anything but help them die quicker. If you're okay with that then let's just kill everyone who we deem to be dragging down society.
edit - Also if it ever became such an epidemic that prices would soar, people's taxes would go up etc. then people would get angry enough to start shitting on fat people anyway. So that would hopefully be enough to get them to lose weight. If the government came out and said 'hey healthcare costs will go up unless fat people lose weight' then that'll be enough of an incentive right there.
Rocket Scientist
Member
Because, freedom.
What if we pass the law that healthcare is free except for obese people?
That'll get them to lose weight.
(not being serious...unless...)
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
The main thing that disgusts me about the US is the lack of ability to simply cook food for yourself.
This shit is not even a little complicated. It doesn't even take much time, necessarily.
Goddamn lazoes would rather watch Rachel Ray make some food while eating Goldfish than throw a pan on the burner and throw some shit in it.
This shit is not even a little complicated. It doesn't even take much time, necessarily.
Goddamn lazoes would rather watch Rachel Ray make some food while eating Goldfish than throw a pan on the burner and throw some shit in it.
ThisWreckage
Banned
I'm 28 and relatively healthy yet I have to pay 350 dollars a month for health insurance. That's pretty horrific for me.
Freedom is something people want to increase the quality of life, it is useless once it is so wildly used that it holds the quality of life back.
The country drastically needs someone to stand up and tell that to everyone who uses 'freedom' as argument for depriving a society from it's basic needs.
Angry Fork
Member
I wouldn't be against this honestly but I wouldn't want them to die because of lack of healthcare is my main point. I would put something in place where they get healthcare if they have diabetes or something but then they have a timetable where they have to show they're losing weight. If they don't lose X amount of pounds by X amount of months then they don't get healthcare anymore, something like that.
Obesity in America is real and growing fast but it's not right to shit on EVERYONE'S chance at healthcare just to point a finger at fat people and say 'haha you made your bed now sleep in it!' like life and death some sociopathic game. Like I said before the government (or whoever does this kind of thing) should put campaigns together to help people lose weight and teach them what it really means to your body when you're drinking 2 cans of coke a day or eating those donuts all the time.
Same with me except an E/r visit and actual hospital stay- either of which hardly ever happen.
As bad as dental is, nothing is as sucky as vision.
The nice thing about the current model is everything is based on preventative so even with those godawful HDHC plans, the check-up is free. But my dental and vision annual visits also are free and then they gouge me for the follow-up if needed.
Yeah, see...it's a good idea in THEORY. In a vacuum it'd be great.
But to try and implement it would be impossible.
As long as obese people have to pay extra for flights because I'm tired of paying for my bags when they're carrying bags under their skin.
Doesn't make sense, you want to give them healthcare but reserve the right to take it away? Would that apply to people who drink, smoke and do things that bad for your health?
I don't understand this either. If they billed my daughter for birthing cost I wouldn't pay a dime. It will disappear after 7 years and never affect the child's credit. Still doesn't make any sense.
Angry Fork
Member
Well aren't there programs for drug users where they have to prove they aren't doing drugs every once in a while? They get fake piss sometimes but you can't fake your weight. I don't see it out of the realm of possibility, it's just you can't ask them to lose a crazy amount like 30 pounds in 1 month or something.
Well society as a whole recognizes that being obese is bad. It's bad for your health it's bad for other people etc. there has got to be like only 1% of the population that likes being fat and legitimately doesn't care. If this is the case then it's not a bad thing to tell people you need to lose weight or you're going to die.
I think having some kind of plan where they get healthcare but they have to lose weight to get it is a right compromise. On the one hand they may be taking a toll on the healthcare system (if shira's doomsday scenario is correct), but on the other you don't want them to die and punish them when they need help.
'The right to take it away' is only if they go above a certain weight. Let's say someone is 400 pounds and is diagnosed with diabetes or something. He gets healthcare but then the government says you have to lose say 6-8 pounds every month or something. After 6 months you get a check up, if they've lost it good if they haven't you get a warning (the only warning, or maybe there's 2 depending on how dire the system is), then another check up 6 months down the line and if they still didn't lose the proper weight then it gets taken away and they have to rely on their own money. It sucks but if that's the case then you know they REALLY don't give a shit about their life.
Well society as a whole recognizes that being obese is bad. It's bad for your health it's bad for other people etc. there has got to be like only 1% of the population that likes being fat and legitimately doesn't care. If this is the case then it's not a bad thing to tell people you need to lose weight or you're going to die.
I think having some kind of plan where they get healthcare but they have to lose weight to get it is a right compromise. On the one hand they may be taking a toll on the healthcare system (if shira's doomsday scenario is correct), but on the other you don't want them to die and punish them when they need help.
'The right to take it away' is only if they go above a certain weight. Let's say someone is 400 pounds and is diagnosed with diabetes or something. He gets healthcare but then the government says you have to lose say 6-8 pounds every month or something. After 6 months you get a check up, if they've lost it good if they haven't you get a warning (the only warning, or maybe there's 2 depending on how dire the system is), then another check up 6 months down the line and if they still didn't lose the proper weight then it gets taken away and they have to rely on their own money. It sucks but if that's the case then you know they REALLY don't give a shit about their life.
No healthcare system is free. Not even UHC systems. It is paid for in some manner. Be it taxes or by private costs through a mandate.
Now if your telling me that obese people or people in high risk occupations and fields should pay higher taxes? Well that is something that's been discussed in many countries. something I'm not all together against but there are downsides to it.
The most obvious arguments being how to decide what qualifies as high risk and what doesn't? Now I'm sure all the actuaries in the world would get a hard on right now in anticipation of showing you what jobs are most high risk but then there's also the economic arguments.
Say offshore oil rig workers are labeled as a high risk occupation, thus they are charged a considerable bit more in taxes for healthcare. So now salaries need to ncrease to compensate for that higher cost in order to attract the same quality of worker. In turn costs go up and then gas prices climb.
Or just pick any higher risk but low salaried job and imagine how such a law would affect societies ability to get that job done and the possible increased cost to do so which may ultimately be passed off to the consumer - you.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
Some of the stories are... amazing.
What I'll never understand is how did the pharmaceutical industry manage to convince so many people that a universal healthcare system is bad, people that actually need it yet they associate it with everything that's wrong in this world.
"We are trying to make you healthy."
"Fuck you and your evil plans you communist nazi scum!"
"..."
It doesn't matter how powerful and wealthy these corporations are, how did they manage to make people go against themselves?
What I'll never understand is how did the pharmaceutical industry manage to convince so many people that a universal healthcare system is bad, people that actually need it yet they associate it with everything that's wrong in this world.
"We are trying to make you healthy."
"Fuck you and your evil plans you communist nazi scum!"
"..."
It doesn't matter how powerful and wealthy these corporations are, how did they manage to make people go against themselves?
People didn't start paying attention until it started to directly affect their own pocket.
Some people still don't pay attention.
In fact, I doubt most people really understand the seriousness of it unless they or someone close in their family has something major happen to them.
I'm not against an obesity tax if UHC is implemented(assuming genetic and medical exceptions are properly taken into account) but I think it should come ONLY after a significant reform has taken place to our food economy in this country.
Such a penalty or tax in today's America would disproportionately hurt low income urban communities seeing as that our food economy is structured as such that the cheapest food to consume also happens to be really bad for you and in most urban poor areas can be some of the only food available to you.
shira
Member
In the US this is impossible with McDonald's and Coca-Cola as major parts of the economy.
Holy fucking shit. A million dollar payout by the insurance wasn't enough? Fuck doctors and hospitals
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
Isn't like a quarter of the country morbidly obese? It makes more sense to absorb the hit now and gradually enact changes to nutrition standards and lifestyle.
Trying to force a fat tax poisons any progress.
Trying to force a fat tax poisons any progress.
Deified Data
Banned
That's it.
The next time something horrible happens to me, I'm just going to ride it out at home, hope it takes care of itself. After reading these stories I'm not setting foot in an American hospital.
The next time something horrible happens to me, I'm just going to ride it out at home, hope it takes care of itself. After reading these stories I'm not setting foot in an American hospital.
The doctors tried to sue you? Good god on what basis?
It's still easy with Diet Coke & a large chunk of McDonald's menu actually being healthy.
Place a federal tax on junk food to help pay the increase in health costs (Leave it off the healthy stuff on a fast food menu).
This will also be non-discrimnatory so that obese people won't have hurt feelings.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
It was probably the hospital. If you don't pay a hospital bill then they can file a civil suit.
Phantast2k
Member
Maybe it's part of the Hippocratic Oath in the US?
"...and you shall sue their broke asses if they can't pay"
Sometimes I daydream about living in the US since I quite liked it there during my semester abroad, but then health care reality comes crushing down on that day dream*, lol
/edit
* and the political carnival of stupid and some other stuff too.
Collection companies have no problems suing.
Why? Most stories seem to indicate the hospital took care of them.Deified Data said:
They're worth it. Of anyone that makes 6 figure salaries, the doctors repairing my leg shold be the ones that get it. They're salary and costs shouldn't be solely the individuals problem though.JB1981 said:
Fortunately there is no million dollar cap anymore. (I don't think there's a cap period anymore, but not sure)
Lazy Man's Wallpaper
Member
Nah, they billed me (or my wife, can't remember). They did state it would hit our CBR if we didn't pay within 30 days.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
Not really. It tastes sweet so if you drink a lot it can trick your body into getting ready to process sugar even when you didn't eat any, but there doesn't seem to be any serious health effects.
Regular coke is just liquid candy though. Useless calories that go straight to your ass.
Angry Fork
Member
This is a fucking nightmare man. So sorry you had to go through this. I could see someone going John Q over something like that.
Only had one brush with the US healthcare system while participating in an Arena Football training camp and tournament in Hawaii.
Ended up cutting and busting up my right hand on a tackle in the finals, and the AFL trainer took me to the local hospital. They wouldn't let him in, and he warned me that if they went to perform nerve surgery to get him and we'd go to a private clinic.
The hospital made me prove I had insurance and fill out the admission form by myself (with my bleeding, fractured right hand) before attending to me. I waited for about 30 minutes by myself in the empty inpatient area.
Eventually got 3 stiches over the course of 90 minutes after being shuffled into a treatment area, and after waiting another hour for an xray just got a sling (fractured thumb but they couldn't do anything about that). And they sent me on my way.
I ended up walking out of a Walgreens without paying for my Vicodin prescription because I didn't know I had to. They weren't happy with me when I went in the next day.
Got the bill for about $1500 about a month later, covered by insurance. But I noted that they charged $100 each time a nurse came and checked my chart (which was 3 times).
Not horrific story, but a stark contrast to NZ where they don't charge anything for emergency treatment, and the whole process is a lot snappier. Oh, and they don't make you fill out your own form with a busted hand either.
Ended up cutting and busting up my right hand on a tackle in the finals, and the AFL trainer took me to the local hospital. They wouldn't let him in, and he warned me that if they went to perform nerve surgery to get him and we'd go to a private clinic.
The hospital made me prove I had insurance and fill out the admission form by myself (with my bleeding, fractured right hand) before attending to me. I waited for about 30 minutes by myself in the empty inpatient area.
Eventually got 3 stiches over the course of 90 minutes after being shuffled into a treatment area, and after waiting another hour for an xray just got a sling (fractured thumb but they couldn't do anything about that). And they sent me on my way.
I ended up walking out of a Walgreens without paying for my Vicodin prescription because I didn't know I had to. They weren't happy with me when I went in the next day.
Got the bill for about $1500 about a month later, covered by insurance. But I noted that they charged $100 each time a nurse came and checked my chart (which was 3 times).
Not horrific story, but a stark contrast to NZ where they don't charge anything for emergency treatment, and the whole process is a lot snappier. Oh, and they don't make you fill out your own form with a busted hand either.
I love that equivalency he made.
Smoking = walking around at 390 lbs = playing high school football.
Never mind that one is a glorious tradition, and that high school coaches recruit the hell out of young guys like my friend who benched 300 lbs and ran a 4.5 40. He should have been more responsible and not gotten tackled at the knees by some idiot linebacker! And if he was going to do that anyway, he should have known that his father (who worked full-time, btw) didn't have an insurance policy that would cover knee surgeries! Bootstraps!
Why not? It's the easiest way. FDA already has a list of all of it.
Well, I'm not meaning to say they are Weight Watchers level. Any dining out experience is filled with unhealthy choices, so to single out McDonald's or fast food in general is kind of silly.
The salads are healthy plus they have other low fat stuff as well. It's a large chunk in comparison to other fast food menus. If all of them are garbage then McD's is still one of the healthiest options in terms of choices.
lol. sorry dude. It reminds me of the time I cut a huge gash in my writing hand the day before our final exam in philosophy. It was a three hour long exam consisting of three essay questions. That was frikken brutal.
puddle's friend's story also reminds me of my two ACL surgeries. Each performed while having two different coverages, both pretty good (one as a grad student and the other as university staff). I only had to pay $100 for each surgery, although both procedures each cost close to (if not exactly) $10,000. Physical therapy costs were astronomical though. Insurance helped for so many of them (80-90% each visit), but after the limit (like a dozen?) you were paying 200-250 for each visit out of pocket. Yikes. Best learn as much as you can in those few covered visits so you can continue PT on your own - was the lesson I learned.
Dental insurance is on the other end of the spectrum.. it's been almost useless to me. I've had to cover most of the costs for just about every single procedure I've ever had to do. I already know I can't count on my insurance company (delta) for anything over 50% of the cost to pull my wisdom teeth (which will likely be over $1000), or 20% for orthodontics*.
Its as if I'm simply paying them to exist for existence's sake. Or it's like a cop paying for the right to tote around a badge (i.e. my delta dental card) that confers upon him no legitimate authority.
*This is actually better than last year. In order to avoid losing their deal with my university (to competitors), they had to give up another benefit - they now provide up to $1000 in reimbursements for otrhodontics (lifetime). It used to be $0 for anyone over 18.
Little Old Man
Member
What the fuck. I'm speechless. The sole reason I'd never move to the States. Someone you know and care about is injured terribly, or fighting a horrible disease, and the patient and their family is left worrying about how to pay for the treatment. That's no way to run a health care system. I'm guessing even a lot of people even with moderately good health insurance worry about getting seriously ill.
echoshifting
Banned
Yep, even with decent insurance, chronic illness is a catastrophic financial situation all too often.
Even if you don't give a shit about the health of your fellow citizen, it's prudent to actually have universal healthcare because it's better financially for everyone. It's better for them to get access to doctors and get preventative care then to wait until they get really sick and have to go to the emergency room without insurance. You're going to pay for it in the long run regardless. Less money is spent if preventative care is offered.
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