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U.S. Signals Backing for Self-Driving Cars
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Ether_Snake
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Cars will also become a source of "big dara" as they could film 360 degrees at all time. Imagine every car is the equivalent of a Google street view car. That info will be in high demand by a lot of companies and municipalities.
Boogie9IGN
Member
lessgoooo
This is good, but let us keep a number count in check.
There are millions of people whose jobs depend on simply being a driver. These homies are f u c k e d, and the concerns of further automation of human tasks draws ever closer.
If the most employed job in America is eventually in the targets of automation, the fact we, as a society, only offer people planks and not assured floors is only going to create further anxiety of the precariat, and if anyone wants to know why that's so bad, it has fueled a great deal of conservative tribalism just this year. Our progress will create conflict, because we've done very little to accept the change and make social policy to curb the blasts of it. Granted, people in the Obama administration has given this strong attention, but they're on the way out. The problem is the coming candidates are both too averse to the problem, especially Trump.
Automation itself isn't a problem. Automation in a labor imposed, Capitalist society is, because we have very few systems in play to genuinely hold people above the waves of insecurity, poverty, and displacement in a negative manner. For people who think this couldn't possibly bubble up into a problem, you're fooling yourself.
This post reads as if we haven't made notable strides in driver less trucks. Much of what you wrote isn't an issue for Otto.
There are millions of people whose jobs depend on simply being a driver. These homies are f u c k e d, and the concerns of further automation of human tasks draws ever closer.
If the most employed job in America is eventually in the targets of automation, the fact we, as a society, only offer people planks and not assured floors is only going to create further anxiety of the precariat, and if anyone wants to know why that's so bad, it has fueled a great deal of conservative tribalism just this year. Our progress will create conflict, because we've done very little to accept the change and make social policy to curb the blasts of it. Granted, people in the Obama administration has given this strong attention, but they're on the way out. The problem is the coming candidates are both too averse to the problem, especially Trump.
Automation itself isn't a problem. Automation in a labor imposed, Capitalist society is, because we have very few systems in play to genuinely hold people above the waves of insecurity, poverty, and displacement in a negative manner. For people who think this couldn't possibly bubble up into a problem, you're fooling yourself.
This post reads as if we haven't made notable strides in driver less trucks. Much of what you wrote isn't an issue for Otto.
Marky Mark
Member
Honestly I would be happy to work on my commute if it meant that time was taken off of my total hours worked for the day. It would mean a 9h day would only require that many hours out of home as opposed to 11 at present. My current employer would probably be cool with that but I'm sure others wouldn't and you'd just be working an extra two hours instead
So fucked
not 100% true
http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/02/05/382664837/map-the-most-common-job-in-every-state
Now they do. In the future? probably not
https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux
Elon Musk wants your car to drive without you in it.
So fucked
You still need someone in the truck if you don't want the trucks to get jacked.
Also someone who can deal with loading/unloading, signing paperwork, confirming inventory, etc.
Fallout-NL
Member
Armor up the truck (can't cost as much as paying a guy every year). Maybe patrol big trucking routes with a few security cars instead of one on every truck. Loading and unloading will eventually also be automated. That's not rocket science.
So fucked
Yup, I hope they've got plans for basic income as well (and a means to combat that ridiculously outdated bootstrap mentality), cause a paying job is fast becoming a thing of the past for a lot of people. The majority actually.
sazzy
Member
here's why self driving cars bother me:
1- these cars will be driven by computers. every computer can be hacked, especially if they're online, which self driving cars eventually will be.
2- not knowing if, in case of an accident, self driving cars are programmed to prioritise my safety over others or not.
3- a future where companies/governments operating self driving cars refuse to take you to where you want to go on the route you want to take, due to political, advertising, or any other reason.
1- these cars will be driven by computers. every computer can be hacked, especially if they're online, which self driving cars eventually will be.
2- not knowing if, in case of an accident, self driving cars are programmed to prioritise my safety over others or not.
3- a future where companies/governments operating self driving cars refuse to take you to where you want to go on the route you want to take, due to political, advertising, or any other reason.
Government creates a regulation requiring a person with the required license to be in the cab at all times while the truck is driving for safety purposes.
Seems like a pretty easy thing to do to ensure that truckers don't lose their jobs.
Ether_Snake
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Insurance companies will try to lobby against automated cars I assume. Anything related to car repairs and maintenance too, as demand would drop.
I wouldn't expect that to be a viable long-term solution. The obvious end-game for the automotive industry is unmanned vehicles, with the trucking industry being an obvious target for eliminating a lot of human cost. Aside from paychecks, goods also get delivered more quickly when companies don't have to worry about humans needing to eat/sleep/whatever along the way to their deliveries - also giving less opportunities for robberies I'd imagine. There's just too many advantages in the end for me to be able to see the idea of truckers staying in the cabbies as being anything more than a very temporary solution until people get comfortable enough with self-driving vehicles to no longer see the necessity of having a human around.
You have to be very shortsighted to think we wont eventually remove the requirement of a person being behind the wheel too. Its super obvious to envision where this is going. It will be the tail end of our lifetimes probably before "There must be a driver behind the wheel" thing probably starts to fade out; but it will eventually for sure. And then businesses are going to gun for the Trucking industry head first. Way to much money they can save by cutting drivers/accidents out for them not to pursue it.
The problem here should be obvious: the more that gets delegated to the machine, the greater incentive to depress wages.
Keeping the job for the sake of the job is really the core problem here, and your solution tries to keep that problem in tact while still being at risk of being significantly hindered.
When we say having a job is man's objective goal, we will always have this status quo problem of assimilation, even if it's to decaying sandcastles. Look at how people want to hang onto coal jobs, for this is all they have. We incentivize conflict by not being proactive to social wellbeing and fully embracing change. We resist both.
Most Americans, and especially those in office, won't touch it. Too many myths in the way. Clinton has gone on record admitting the most common of them, which is if one gets a basic income, it means they will never do any work ever again. This is nonsense.
But as I said in my earlier post, the Obama administration has talked about it. The former economic advisor to the administration left to work at GiveDirectly, which is engaging trials in Africa, while the Chief of Staff has outright stated America should be leading the world in assuring a floor to avoid any pitfalls of automation. GiveDirectly has a very..amusing problem in parts of the region: they honestly believe free money is from the devil. Not even fuckin' kidding. People are rejecting the program because of religious assumptions about reality. Imagine how bad the Protestant Work Ethic of American Exceptionalism will resist this. We resist the gubment even trying to do something about a for-profit health care system, for shit sake.
I think you can reasonably imagine America may be the last developed nation on Earth to actually implement this, despite MLK's words on the matter, despite the fact we nearly had it with the Nixon administration, and despite the fact we have current and past members of White House administrations talk about its necessity such as Alec Ross, Robert Reich, and the aforementioned Obama administration dudes, to name a few.
What's really great about this is that the government is being clear about trying to safety and innovation. It's very important that we don't impede one because of concerns for the other.
I think automated vehicle form factor is going to start changing, and specialized vehicles will be created for all sorts of old and new use cases. Imagine on demand automated food vendors.
Also, I think the current salary for a self driving vehicle developer is starting at around 4 mil USD.
I think automated vehicle form factor is going to start changing, and specialized vehicles will be created for all sorts of old and new use cases. Imagine on demand automated food vendors.
Also, I think the current salary for a self driving vehicle developer is starting at around 4 mil USD.
Coincidentally, I was just looking at a Udacity course that is filling with a ton of people applying to be self-driving car engineers
EDIT:
https://www.udacity.com/drive
There is an open house today too
EDIT:
https://www.udacity.com/drive
There is an open house today too
I'd trust the system not to get hacked more than I just a human not to plow into me
AstroNut325
Member
They have about a decade to adapt. If that isn't enough time, then they deserve what's coming.
So fucked
Team Alucard
Banned
The reason why long-term unemployment is so devastating for people is not only due to the financial stress, but also because of the feelings of shame, worthlessness, and inferiority that come along with it. Basic income is not going to solve that. People want to work and contribute to society. They don't want a hand-out, they want to make their own way and feel that they are earning their keep.
demosthenes
Member
Well aren't you cheerful. I hope you never run for any kind of public office.
This one is a really interesting question. The ramifications of valuing the occupants lives over the lives of another vehicle is a pretty deep philosophical question that now I'm wondering if they've thought of. On the one hand you would think that it would. But on the other if that's the case you are determining other lives as dispensable.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I still call bs. This will not be a substantial wide spread thing. What we will see is more safety as cars become more intelligent.
I mean if I'm fired from work because of my self driving car I'm suing. How well will a self driving car work in a heavy downpour? How about in certain states where there are so many moths at night it looks like snow? How about snow? What if a Bird shits right on a sensor or camera at 70mph? I just do not see this self driving car self driving 100%of the time I'm in it.
I mean if I'm fired from work because of my self driving car I'm suing. How well will a self driving car work in a heavy downpour? How about in certain states where there are so many moths at night it looks like snow? How about snow? What if a Bird shits right on a sensor or camera at 70mph? I just do not see this self driving car self driving 100%of the time I'm in it.
So fucked
For real - major employment disruption coming up quick.
AtomicShroom
Member
Of course they thought of it. There's even a website dedicated to polling the general pulse of the world regarding the morality of most cases:
http://moralmachine.mit.edu
Have fun!
iRobot or Minority Report? I liked the system in iRobot better (magnetic ball bearings?) before it went to shit for Will.
lessgoooo
perfectchaos007
Member
So fucked
A human will still need to be in the truck to unload his cargo to his destinations. He'll just get to sleep while in transit.
Doomshroom
Member
Awsome, aiming while doing drive-bys will be alot easier.
That depends what you mean with self driving cars.
If you mean cars that still need a human to drive and as fallback, but allow the driver to do other things as long as he can take over in ~1min (so not sleeping) in defined, "easy" use cases (e.g. highway, traffic jam), then yes, that should be available at the end of the decade.
If you mean the above but everywhere, including cities, 2025-2030 is realistic.
If you mean cars without driving wheels and so on, that'll take even more time.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
It's going to take way less time than you think. Ford has already decided there isn't a good way to have a human controller take over, so they are completely skipping the development. They want to have class 4 driver less cars in 5 years
sans_pants
avec_pénis
That doesn't even make sense but even if it were the case, would you get a full truckers salary to unload?
Gabriel_Logan
Member
Of course not. Their pay will be drastically cut, no one ever mentions that.
He, I should talk to my boss then...
What you probably read is that an experienced developer in the field is worth 4 mil. That doesn't mean he gets paid 4 mil.
Otakumegane
Member
Yes the job displacement will be bad for a while.
But the industrial revolution ultimately benefited humanity and no doubt this will as well. All those truck drivers are just sacrifices.
The important thing is we don't cause Luddite Riots 2.0 on a much grander scale considering Truck Drivers are likely to have armaments capable of mass damage. The transition need to be slow enough so that social unrest doesn't become non-negligible
But the industrial revolution ultimately benefited humanity and no doubt this will as well. All those truck drivers are just sacrifices.
The important thing is we don't cause Luddite Riots 2.0 on a much grander scale considering Truck Drivers are likely to have armaments capable of mass damage. The transition need to be slow enough so that social unrest doesn't become non-negligible
False Witness
Member
Any job that can be automated, should be.
You're not contributing if you're holding society back simply for the sake of a job. It's busywork.
You might as well be a prisoner if the menial work being done could be replaced at that point. The purpose of that job alone will be to keep you nice and poor and occupied so you can't go start riots and stuff.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
We need to figure out what we wanna be in an automated world. Our currently society won't survive it and we shouldn't be putting the brakes on anything
That's because we have this mentality where if you don't have a job you're made to feel worthless by everyone around you. Our entire lives revolve around work and the money made from it.
It would take a cultural shift in our values. Right now our worth is defined by what we do for work. Shifting toward hobbies and what you do outside of work would be a good start to where we'd need to go.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
But what about all the horse and carriage drivers that will be put out of work?
So fucked
Truckers do more than driving. You're basically a loadmaster too.
Almost all the truckers I know would be glad to let a computer do the actual driving and just do the freight drop / pickup part.
Automated driving is going to kill taxis first, then busses (or busses become automated). Trucks will be at the end of the conversion line along with trains.
Basic income would allow you to work the job you want instead of the job you need. Most people will still work.
Insurance companis will actually support them, because they want to pay out as little money as possible, so if an automated car statistically has a huge safety gap over manually driven cars, they're gonna charge you less for having an automated car and the market will follow along with them.
Theanine3D
Member
This is exactly why self-driving cars excite me.
It's potentially going to make transportation (and life) easier for people with disabilities.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
no thanks ill keep my zero fatalities and no traffic stoppage over the "enjoyment" of driving
Fox Mulder
Member
move over with your horse and carriage.
automated driving will eventually allow for more cars to fit on roads and drive at higher speeds. No more rush hour traffic jams and shit. It will be glorious.
So, horse riders?
Ain't a real vehicle unless you have to feed it and tell it exactly what gait to use with proper kick method
AstroNut325
Member
Yup. Want control? Take it to private roads.
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