sans_pants
avec_pénis
you can see how this is different though, right?
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U.S. Signals Backing for Self-Driving Cars
- Thread starter GusBus
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you can see how this is different though, right?
7DollarHagane
Banned
So fucked
No way semi trucks are fully automated in our lifetime. You want a driver on board for mechanical issues or local construction/deviation from map data.
They won't have to do the driving but you still have an attendant on board that helps load/unload the load and verifies the recipient.
Automated trucks also will be a bigger target for theft and hijacking without an attendant on board to call the police at least if someone tries to steal.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
Computers can't call the police?
So this is just straight up wrong. The data used to construct the chart was not divided up properly and numbers just don't make any sense. They remove the most popular job categories and then combine others and it has twisted the results.
So fucked
We will use Texas as a baseline since it has more truck drivers given it's size.
- 381,400 - Retail Salespersons
- 329,560 - Office Clerks, General
- 295,060 - Combined Food Preparation and Serving Workers, Including Fast Food
- 259,870 - Cashiers
- 241,810 - Customer Service Representatives
- 207,050 - Waiters and Waitresses
- 191,500 - Laborers and Freight, Stock, and Material Movers
- 190,170 - Registered Nurses
- 175,410 - General and Operations Managers
- 172,540 - Secretaries and Administrative Assistants, Except Legal, Medical, and Executive
Wait a second!! Truck Drivers aren't even in the top 10? No they aren't.
Driver Jobs in Texas:
- #12 - 165,000 - Heavy and Tractor-Trailer Truck Drivers
- #40 - 60,000 -Delivery Services Drivers
- #60 - 45,000 - Industrial Truck and Tractor Operator
- #83 - 33,000 - School Bus Driver
- #182 - 12,000 - Taxi Drivers & Chauffeurs
Two of these jobs will not be affected by Automated Driving.
Delivery Services - We will need people to deliver the packages until we have a delivery automation break through.
Industrial Truck & Tracker Operator - These are fork lift and crane operators that work in industrial yards or construction. Again these jobs are affected by other automation, not self driving.
So looking at the two biggest road jobs and even they can't automate those other jobs completely.
Freight Drivers - Truck Drivers do more than just drive. If something goes wrong with some cargo they are the first line of defense against big problems. They are mobile security guards that often don't leave their trucks during an entire trip. They are responsible for reporting cargo issues. They handle simple mechanical problems and flat tires. They may even help load or unload cargo. This job will not evaporate, instead it will slowly shift more into a Mobile Security position.
School Bus Driver - Yes, lets load up a bus with 30 children and no adult super vision. This won't happen. Instead of only a Bus Driver we will have a Bus Monitor. Someone that can actually help kids out, talk to them, or even crack down on bullying.
TL
R: Your numbers are wrong. I welcome our new self driving overlords.You're right! I looked it up and it was 'worth 4 million'.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yes, I know it's not a perfect analogy (it was more of a joke, really), but overall, automation over driving will have more positive benefits than negative.
"Zero fatalities"
lol k
Odds are you enjoy a lot of things that kill a lot of people. If you're going to go with that mentality, you might want to reassess your hobbies.
What a weird comparison. My point is a lot of people actually enjoy driving and don't see it as a nothing more than a daily chore. I look forward to this, don't get me wrong, but some of you act like driving should eventually be illegal.
What you're describing are great opportunities for technology to provide more valuable cost saving measures.
Let's say they solve driving, can they optimize the process to only need people to be at the drop off/loading points? I mean the infrastructure for that is already there!
Verifying receipts can be done with that as well, but if we automate the process, maybe a tech company can step in and take advantage of the 'always connected' nature of self driving vehicles to constantly audit the innards of each truck, maybe with the sort of automated RFID system used in retail supply chains.
With these trucks hooked up to a network, we can also automate security! If someone Indiana Jones their way onto a moving truck (is this a common problem in the U.S.? I keep hearing it being brought up) there can be immediate lock down procedures initiated, with police called.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
I'm sorry what? Hobbies that kill people?
And yes driving will and should eventually be illegal
You said one's "enjoyment" should not take precedent over human life. Tell that to people who drink alcohol, own swimming pools, participate in outdoor sports, hunt, camp, etc.
Also please explain how this would result in "zero fatalities."
sans_pants
avec_pénis
How would robot cars result in zero car fatalities?
People die all the time from hunting and camping? If you drink yourself to death I don't give a shit either but if you get behind the wheel and kill someone you are a murderer
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
So fucked
Less serial killers though.
mrhyderager
Member
My biggest concern, and perhaps I'm alone here, is that I really don't want to relinquish total control of my vehicle. That appears to be the eventual conclusion and I'd really like to not end up in that situation.
The current setup, where you can engage auto-pilot but take control back whenever you please is more my speed.
The current setup, where you can engage auto-pilot but take control back whenever you please is more my speed.
SugarDaddy
Member
So fucked
I have a very hard time believing this.
That would explain it.
I think the idea is that there are things people do that are unsafe, and we are constantly balancing the freedom to conduct in those activities with public safety. It varies from country to country of course, but if tens of thousands of people die a year because of human error, and there is a clear and powerful solution to that problem, it behooves most societies to pursue those actions. Balancing that against driving enthusiasts is like balancing public safety against gun enthusiasts. you can have a gun if youu really want, but if you wanna shoot it, it neeeeeeds to be far away from other people.
And if we can have a network of cars that work in a predictable and intelligent way, that by their programming must adhere to safety guidelines, I think if not 0 fatalities we could get close.
Heck self driving cars being tested now are already capable of superhuman feats - using radar they can see through things and predict paths, like a kid on a bike coming out from behind some bushes.
I read into this, and while the data is 'correct' it's not broken down correctly. All truck drivers under different but similar titles were grouped together under truck driver, but the data that was used didn't do the same for all other careers. Retail worker and fast food worker I think are the most common in the U.S. That being said... Lots going into automating that too.
Huh?
You literally just posted this a few minutes ago:
Again, please explain how this will result in zero fatalities.
I wouldn't make any statements with such certainty for a time period that could span more than 90 years for some people here.
quackamole
Member
If self driving cars is proven to be better at avoiding accident than humans, which I think they will, insurance companies will lower premium for self driving car owners while massively raising premiums for human drivers. When this happens only the rich or driving enthusiasts will be driving. I expect this to happen within 30 years.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
No more accidents means no more fatalities
The amount of money that could be saved with fully automated trucks will speed up this process real fast. Drivers rarely help load and unload their trucks. Our trucks are loaded and unloaded by someone working in the warehouse usually.
RFID tags will help to automate the verification of contents and provided instant tracking data.
Currently trucks have GPS trackers that alert managers if they make unscheduled stops so that is not going to be a problem. Also, drivers do not provided security. If a driver is in an armed robbery situation they should just let the thieves take it. Tracking these things is super easy and shipping companies have insurance for this.
All the positives provided by automated cars to regular commuters are going to be multiplied for the shipping and delivery industry.
This is some stupid thinking.
The problem of automation is we can already see how it can get to human level capabilities far faster than it would take a human being to hit a similar skill level as the machine on the same scale of time.
We're talking this driverless cars can be considered safer with fewer hours on the road that it would take one to be reasonably experienced as a veteran regarding skills with using a car. And the problem there is a pointer: this is a problem that could be applied to many, many, many ranges of jobs existing today. Much of low-skilled labor is facing elements of this problem today.
Your answer to people being left in insecure scenarios is literally no different than a free will bootstrapping argument. You miss underlying macro-scale themes that start applying to many aspects of what counts as canonical human labor that are all at great risk in a Capitalist society, where automation may end up being a stronger asset than an actual labor force. At least from the perspective of the companies.
Surely you can see how that can create a chaotic bubble, no?
This of course doesn't even mention the desires of some companies like Amazon who want shipping to avoid roads as much as possible, and be transferred via carrier drones. Imagine that taking over a lot of transferring.
You might hope we enter another universe, my friend. We're already ahead by a decade, if you're to take one of the technological Jesus Christ-like figures in Elon Musk. If we're ahead, we're not going slowly.
Consider for a moment Nvidia can make a current-to-standards driverless car with a system that takes less than 100 hours to get there. The time and the company in question are both true regarding cars, even if at first glance they seem otherworldly to many of us. This time of odd progress is happening in a lot of industries with technology. I've often used Enlitic as an example of this, for it's a deep learning system for the medical industry, with success rates akin to medical industry veterans, made and developed by people who barely even know medical terminology. That's the kind of situation we're in, and that can only be prone to be getting cooked up in bigger ways as time and technology march on.
You might as well hope for solar flares to fry our grids to make sure this goes slowly.
The problem here is rather obvious: while people do wish to contribute, there is a hardcore state of propagandizing with the imposition one must, or else. It's the or else that makes automation chaotic. If it's back down to wants, and they have their socioeconomic basics assured, one can engage in efforts that one may not be able to do now because they may not pay. We have a weird dualism with what counts as "work", for what's canon is what you get paid for, and there is meaningful work that exists in all of our societies where being paid for it is not even an option.
One has a poor image of self by lacking a job because we have projected the illusion that having a job finally makes you a worthy human being on this planet. It's part of a larger human issue that one becomes a worthy human being in time, in the future, and the game we play on ourselves it to assume innate unworthiness as the default state of our organism. A social Original Sin, in this sense. And like Original Sin, it's myth.
You will be a statistical risk, and probably end up paying more regarding insurance and potentially the type of car you have, assuming you avoid a driverless car in the first place. Are you cool with being "punished" in this sense?
maabus1999
Member
I would argue the opposite as for other reasons they will most likely still need a human to tag along the truck plus now truck driving can become more lucrative as the truck could technically drive nearly 24/7 while the driver was resting no longer requiring them to stop
So fucked
Self-driving cars will certainly prevent a lot of accidents, but preventing 100% of accidents is a bit of a high bar, which is what the poster was getting at. There are far too many things that can go wrong to assume a 0% failure rate by the car itself, let alone assume it can avoid an accident in 100% of scenarios.
Do their wages stay the same or go up in a driverless car?
Being fucked isn't about full blown displacement, but how it economic worthwhileness can be deeply soured.
I think "fun driving" should be moved over to tracks and courses, and maybe certain scenic routes. I'm fully in support of even having public government ran race courses where you can rent proper fire gear and floor it to get people to get it out of their system instead of doing it in the street.
The reason I say this is because in an ideal automated car city, we can actually reclaim a lot of the road surface back for the houses/greenspace, since a fully automated system would only need one lane for each direction or even just one lane entirely.
Exactly. Let people drive recreationally but not on the automated grid. Eventually manual driving should become exclusively a hobby/sport thing, for both the environment and for safety.
OrlanisWorks
Banned
There's no actual evidence, I think. But it should be pretty fucking obvious that human error is responsible for nearly all auto accidents. Remove humans from the equation, things would be safer and smoother.
Self driving cars is the dream that we can make real. It's gonna be awesome.
StickSoldier
Member
Self Driving cars will save so many people stress from road rage it's going to be crazy. The emotional impact road rage has on us, especially those with intense road rage, is very demanding and the stress makes the day hard to cope with, especially knowing you have to make the commute home.
Self driving cars are going to save lives, both physically and emotionally.
Self driving cars are going to save lives, both physically and emotionally.
what's worse, a hacker taking out a vehicle, or someone eating the full meal deal off of their lap while driving? I'll take my chances with the hacker
What's great about universal income (in theory) is the time they would have spent working in a pretty meaningless job, they can now devote time to more productive things like charity work or creative projects - making an even bigger impact / contribution to society.
It should be illegal.
Safety and Environment > Bob who enjoys driving his Toyota
People will adapt like we do with any technological change that benefits society, the overall positives outweigh the subjective qualities of driving. That's not saying this change will be instant though
the_sun_king
Member
Getting closer to the reality that futurists helped Steven Spielberg design for Minority Report.
Absolutely. It allows people the actual freedom to reject work.
You can only reject work today if you have some degree of a floor. For people who do not, the problem becomes to settle with something you have genuine aversion to, be it pay, the work conditions, or the ultimate failing, doing it only for money.
People, especially Americans who harp on freedom, have to explain why they settle for a system that only works best for those already doing well. Where is the freedom in a means-tested "welfare queen" who even makes one step to prosperity is hindered and incentivized to not do so?
You see, there are already failings in the socially imposed model we have. Technology becomes interesting because it will pull people downwards as their tasks, skills, and capabilities are matched or replaced by automation. It will only highlight this problem further, and how our answers of personal willpower can genuinely be obsolete, even if some try to assert they somehow aren't at present.
Fallout-NL
Member
Depressing, to say the least.
And I guess they'll see the apocalyptic levels of misery resulting from this as a good thing because it signals Jesus' imminent return.
Yeah, about that. (Apart from playing videogames), riding motorcycles and driving cars are actually my biggest hobbies. I own 4 Buells and a 986 Porsche Boxster and I still think it should eventually be illegal to drive. I fucking love driving, but it is absolutely nonsensical to continue allowing it when thousands of lives can be saved, untold millions of hours worth of productivity gained (less traffic jams, time spent driving can be spent doing something else) and environmental impact can be lessened due to increased efficiency. It is the very definition of a no-brainer that should not have to be explained to you.
America's reaction to the proposal of firearm legislation should make it clear to you that this is naive and won't happen.
Theonik
Member
Trains are much futher along than cars. Autonomous rail has been a reality since the 80s.
titiklabingapat
Member
Driving a car is actually one of the most dangerous think you can do in everyday life. It's the number one killer of young people. Other hobbies look like playing with play-doh for comparison.
Driving is not explicitly spelled out in the constitution.
KidA Seven
Member
If the goal is to make the roads as safe as possible, you're going to need the roads to be filled with only self-driving cars. If that is the case, that means you're going to want the entire population to have access to self-driving cars financially. So that means the ownership of cars will be fading as time goes on. That's a lot of money you're saving in a year.
Makers of these self-driving cars can make money even if riding in them is cheap. That's due to the massive amount of people that will be riding in these for what could be hours of being on the road. What's to stop these self-driving car makers from getting advertisement revenue?
I'm excited of how this will play out, mainly because of how much safer driving will be, but also in the financial sense.
Makers of these self-driving cars can make money even if riding in them is cheap. That's due to the massive amount of people that will be riding in these for what could be hours of being on the road. What's to stop these self-driving car makers from getting advertisement revenue?
I'm excited of how this will play out, mainly because of how much safer driving will be, but also in the financial sense.
This is a good point and I hadn't even thought about it that way. There is going to a lot less stress for a lot of people. Trickle down quality of life improvement that will actually work.
Yeah, depends on what you consider evidence. But there was a study done:
Article talking about the study.
One study is obviously not conclusive evidence.
Also keep in mind this study was based on work in progress.
It makes logical sense that a self driving car has the potential to be much safer. With the right sensors it should be able to see things that a human could never see and also gather and process much more input in an instant than a human could ever hope to get close to. Plus a computer has no emotions, so it will drive at the peak of its ability. Always.
Turbowaffles
Member
I just got my drivers license, and am about to purchase my first car.
That said, I cannot wait for self driving cars. I hate driving so freaking much.
That said, I cannot wait for self driving cars. I hate driving so freaking much.
The Dulles airport corridor is absolutely filled with tech companies. I've heard it called the silicon valley of the east coast.
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