Cyborg
Member
And only one of these is just release with its first ever implementation. Give it time and chance, new version is coming in 2026.
Ubisoft on PSSR: "We're now confident that the image quality with PSSR will always be better than with TAA".
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
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Bojji
Member
FSR4 is good since day one.
Pssr already got updates (Jedi survivor) and it will improve for sure.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Because PC gamers need to measure their ePeens no matter what.
You would too if a company forced you to pay the price of your kid's college tuition on a GPU.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
FSR4 is not coming out of a vacuum, it can be compared to a PSSR v2 on newer even less constrained HW. I think we are being a bit unfair to PSSR here…
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Zuzu
Member
On Series X chromatic aberration can be turned off in the “Video” settings via the “Options” menu. It’s probably the same on PS5:
Bojji
Member
We heaven't seen incomplete/full of issues versions of FSR4, of course it wasn't what it is now few months ago.
But it's not unfair to expect things working ok on day one, this should be the norm...
Yes, they decided to put 4 next to FSR for no reason whatsoever.
Bojji
Member
FSR4 has nothing in common with previous versions.
FSR1 - spatial upscaler
FSR2/3 (it's the same thing) - raster reconstruction (similar to TSR or insomniac solution)
FSR 4 - ML reconstruction.
FSR4 is something completely new for AMD, naming is irrelevant.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
They also decided to put 2 next to DLSS despite 1 being a spatial upscaler and 2 being a temporal one.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
We are making PSSR or more like the use of it by devs a bit more of an issue than it actually is.
Point is that FSR4 is not a day one, it is an evolution of the work we sampled on console with PSSR which worked well on several titles on day one. It is not something forced on games either at a system level…
Yes but they replaced those and improved them due to problems/missing features in earlier iterations while improving the same underlying thing too which is upscaling. It would be akin to Sony adding framegen and calling it PSSR2 then somebody saying PSSR has never had artifacts. The aim is to create a good upscaler. That hasn't changed and FSR4 isn't the first iteration or attempt. "Nothing in common" is a stretch.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Sure, but the techniques are so different that they’re similar mostly in names, not applications. If we’re gonna do that, we may as well say that checkerboard rendering was really PSSR1.
I also recall a few claiming that PSSR would beat DLSS because of Sony’s experience in image processing. Then it turns out it doesn’t and all of a sudden, it’s great for a first attempt.
Regardless, this discussion between PSSR and DLSS is kind of irrelevant. They’re not even competing solutions. There isn’t one game on the market that allows you to choose one or the other, so the debate is moot.
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SKYF@ll
Member
I don't think anyone has tried to maintain image quality with 4K upscaling from 800-900p in FSR4 yet. (Shadows and RT are at even lower resolution on console.)
On the other hand, I would love to see PSSR upscaling from 800p to 1440p, but unfortunately that's not going to happen.
I think PS5 Pro will be a great 1440p console.
The games that have issues are those that forcibly stretch an extremely low resolution to 4K.
The techniques might differ but its goal is exactly the same. Nothing in common is just a lie. Saying FSR4 "is good since day 1" as if to say PSSR is bad but ignoring that it is the latest release of an upscaler, newer than both DLSS and PSSR, is like suggesting others were a poor attempt just because things have been improving over time. I'm sure FSR4 also has some not discussed issues upscaling from lower res that might be addressed in FSR5. DLSS likewise, it had plenty of artifacts that have been improved from iteration to iteration. This thread is about the exact same happening to PSSR.
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PaintTinJr
Member
Unfortunately we can't categorically say if the base PS5 TAA and Pro TAA take the same time given the additional width, it is quite conceivable that the TAA scales by the 60 CUs to run faster, meaning the 1.6ms for TAA might become 1.6x 36/60 ~= 0.96, meaning the PSSR was actually 1.1 - 1.2ms of the 2.1ms.
Justin9mm
Member
Yeah and by that time PS6 will have released lol
Justin9mm
Member
Not yet, coming in patch update
That makes sense. So I guess 1ms cost on a pro is a pretty good ballpark then.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And how many of those run on a PS5 or PS5 Pro?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The PS6 is rumored to release in Fall 2027 at the Earliest and most think Fall 2028. A version of FSR4 will be on the PS5 Pro in 2026.
So what are you talking about?
PaintTinJr
Member
Are you saying that if PSSR was using the same number of TOPS per frame as xx80, xx90 or 9070XT, you don't believe that to be true, when PSSR is using 4x less resources it already has areas in which it is superior?
Even the temporal stability issue it often gets criticised for, it is compared against cards with 2x TOPs and 2x times more the frame-time in processing. Comparing with cards that can interpolate away temporal stability with 3x the frame-rate to smooth contrast and lower intensity transitions.
PaintTinJr
Member
You should put up comparison images from a game to show what you mean, because it sounds like something else is wrong with your setup if TAA isn't improving image quality for you.
Is Ubisoft on waiting game if the game will be a success before they decide to add the ps5 pro patch? Or whatever happen, the ps5 pro patched will be added?
Tqaulity
Member
The patch was submitted for certification before the launch of Shadows. So there is no waiting on the game's success. It's coming very soon.
Mr Moose
Member
.50ms difference between them (max), that's not too bad.It’s in the video.
They aren't guessing. Tom says "it seems" because the cost varies between 2ms to 2.21ms. This checks out with the leaked documents that says PSSR costs around ~2ms as well.
thatJohann
Member
Hoping we get the PSSR patch for AC Shadows tomorrow. I read somewhere that the patch is already in the PS Database just not live yet. Hoping it's not a hotfix and it's actually the PSSR update Ubi mentioned.
TheRedRiders
Member
Me too. Currently playing the game on 30 FPS, and luckily it’s one of the best 30 FPS implementations I’ve played on console to date.
However 60 FPS is still king and I’m desperate for the Pro patch.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
Why you need to label people as PC gamers, or console gamers. Are you into platform wars?
I played on consoles since 1995 (NES / PS1 / PS2 / Xbox classic / X360/ PS3 / PS Vita / xbox one x / PS4 Pro). At the moment I mainly play on PC (because the Playstation 5 console has lost its appeal for me since Sony started porting games to PC), but I might buy the PS5 since it's so cheap just to not wait additional 2 years for GTA6.
This is a thread about image quality. I have tested FSR3 extensively on the PC. I saw games where even DLSS (3.7 CNN model) in it's performance mode offered way better image quality than FSR3.1 NATIVE despite running at 4x lower internal resolution. FSR3.1 image is reasonably sharp on the static image, but if you start moving the camera the amount of shimmering (especially around foliage and hair) is just unnaceptable. I saw this "shimmering" problem in number of games. Downsampling can clean shimmering even from games without any AA, but FSR3 shimmering is so strong that even downsampling cant help.
From what I have seen, PSSR can offer much better image quality than FSR3.1 in some games, even beating TAA native (Stellar Blade, The Last of Us 1), but there are also games like Avatar or Silent Hill 2 where PSSR offers even worse image quality than FSR3.1. It seems that PSSR looks great in raster games, but it has problems with games that use dynamic GI. Ubisoft said the latest version of PSSR has much better image quality than their own TAA solution, but we will see. As of now PSSR is somewhere between FSR3 and old DLSS 2.0.
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Corporal.Hicks
Member
Everyone knows that YT compression blurs the image, especially during motion. However, if the YouTube video shows a comparison on the same frame and I can see more detail on one side (which is how Digital Foundry usually presents their comparisons), then you cannot use this YouTube compression excuse.Shimmering can be judged to some extent in YouTube videos.
However, I don't think we should judge the upscaling quality because YouTube's quality is so bad.
Even when DF uses 2x zoom, it's nowhere near the actual screen of the PS5 Pro.
DF Youtube vs. PS5 Pro screen shot(Performance Mode) *900p(RT)/60fps PSSR up to 4K
PS5 Pro:JPEG image without zoom (PNG was too large to post)
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I'm confident Cerny and Team approached PSSR with a MoSCoW prioritization method.
It's a basic project management approach.
It's broken down as
Must Have
Should Have
Could Have
Won't Have at this time
PSSR shipped with Must Haves down. Over the next year we'll be getting the should haves and next year we're going to get the could haves. Won't have at this time will be reserved for other products like the PlayStation handheld and the PS6.
Cerny had a similar approach with the PS5, launching the SSD storage expansion at a later date as well as features like VRR. When the PS5 launched HDMI 2.1 spec hadn't been solidified and we barely even had certified cables.
Phase 1 of PSSR was just getting it to where it was generally better than FSR3 and TAA. We're not even at the 6 month mark for the PS5 Pro and Ubisoft is confirming we're already there. If Sony can get PSSR on par with FSR4, that'll be a huge achievement, especially if existing games can be easily updated.
From the interview with Cerny the first goal of PSSR was to get it into as many games as possible.
Something that might be in could haves or won't haves is frame generation. frame extrapolation, ray tracing denoising. He even mentions what order those are given priority and what focus they're given are things that they're debating internally.
At the end of the day, it's going to be about PS5 Pro continuing to strive in delivering the promise of the project which is PS5 Fidelity mode graphics at 60 fps. As the model improves, hopefully that becomes more easily attainable, which is what makes the PS5 Pro such an interesting products in the first place and why it is so questionable the pushback it has received for various reasons and from various directions.
The next year and a half are going to be really interesting for the PS5 Pro, especially as it relates to GTA6 and the FSR4 like integration into PSSR, but my guess is that the naysayers who have been pushing back against the PS5 Pro since before we even got confirmation of its existence will have a lot of crow to eat. I think that's already largely been the case with several games likes FF7R, KCD2, MHW, and ACS. And hopefully that will come with a lot of legacy games being updated as well, including those that already received PSSR.
It's a basic project management approach.
It's broken down as
Must Have
Should Have
Could Have
Won't Have at this time
PSSR shipped with Must Haves down. Over the next year we'll be getting the should haves and next year we're going to get the could haves. Won't have at this time will be reserved for other products like the PlayStation handheld and the PS6.
Cerny had a similar approach with the PS5, launching the SSD storage expansion at a later date as well as features like VRR. When the PS5 launched HDMI 2.1 spec hadn't been solidified and we barely even had certified cables.
Phase 1 of PSSR was just getting it to where it was generally better than FSR3 and TAA. We're not even at the 6 month mark for the PS5 Pro and Ubisoft is confirming we're already there. If Sony can get PSSR on par with FSR4, that'll be a huge achievement, especially if existing games can be easily updated.
From the interview with Cerny the first goal of PSSR was to get it into as many games as possible.
Something that might be in could haves or won't haves is frame generation. frame extrapolation, ray tracing denoising. He even mentions what order those are given priority and what focus they're given are things that they're debating internally.
At the end of the day, it's going to be about PS5 Pro continuing to strive in delivering the promise of the project which is PS5 Fidelity mode graphics at 60 fps. As the model improves, hopefully that becomes more easily attainable, which is what makes the PS5 Pro such an interesting products in the first place and why it is so questionable the pushback it has received for various reasons and from various directions.
The next year and a half are going to be really interesting for the PS5 Pro, especially as it relates to GTA6 and the FSR4 like integration into PSSR, but my guess is that the naysayers who have been pushing back against the PS5 Pro since before we even got confirmation of its existence will have a lot of crow to eat. I think that's already largely been the case with several games likes FF7R, KCD2, MHW, and ACS. And hopefully that will come with a lot of legacy games being updated as well, including those that already received PSSR.
Justin9mm
Member
Are you slow? It's a joke to say the improvements will take years to see in games! Just because it's releasing in 2026 doesn't mean devs are going to utilise properly/immediately. I'm talking about future games once it releases.
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Tqaulity
Member
I think this is common knowledge now but the truth is that PSSR at launch was not trained on RT workloads. No coincidence that the games with the most egregious IQ issues were games that featured widespread RT (e.g. Jedi Survivor, Avatar FOP, Dragon Age Veilguard, Star Wars Outlaws). By widespread RT I mean RT that is full screen (e.g. RTAO, RTGI) as opposed to more isolated RT effects like RT reflections and shadows. In addition, the upscaler needs very clean guide buffers as it doesn't handle denoising on it's own and required to some tweaks to function with many existing denoisers (e.g. Call of Duty BO6). RT denoising is also a weak spot (see the noisy RT Reflections in Hogwarts, Alan Wake 2, and SW Outlaws) as there is no DLSS-RR type solution here and many consoles games make this worse with such low ray counts compared to high end PC.
However, since launch Sony has had at least two major SDK updates with PSSR improvements and from what I hear, it can now handle RT effects much better. Still requires some dev work to make sure their engine can feed it the proper data for it to look it's best, but it's in much better shape today and is much more universally a step up from FSR and TAA. We'll see that in some newer releases such as AC Shadows, Indiana Jones, and Doom DA in the coming months.
Justin9mm
Member
They have been working with Sony to fix some technical issues, like we saw in Silent Hill 2. It's a classic case of Sony releasing something without proper support and expecting devs to work it out. Once Ubisoft fix and are happy with the result, they will release.
BlackTron
Member
It's a thread about comparing AI solutions in a game that is also on other platforms with other AI solutions day and date...
Speaking of SH2 remake. I love the game, I enjoyed it on my base ps5. But I saw some videos and impressions, that up to now the game hasn't received a substantial ps5 pro upgrade. I don't know if it's something to do with UE5, but Cryengine, Decima and Anvil are pretty impressive on Ps5 pro right now.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
UE5 has issues, yes. Even the PC version suffered some image quality stuff with SH2 (though, like the Pro, it needed an update and got it + the DLSS 4.0 patch). Looks a good deal better.
As I am just getting back around to the Pro version after beating the PC version back in October, once you get beyond the opening scene in Quality Mode, it actually looks pretty good.
FalsettoVibe
Member
No it's not. It's a thread talking about two different solutions available for this game ON PS5. Not PC. There is no point in bringing up DLSS in this scenario. Doing so neither proves or disproves anything. DLSS is not available for PS5.
I was impress with the visuals on my base ps5 of SH2 remake. I played at quality mode and it was playable and stable even at 30 fps and visuals is very good. I was just disappointed from what I heard, saw, and read about Ps5 pro upgrade on SH2 remake, especially RT noise, frame rate hit, and flickering. You said it is just on the opening scene which is from the car, walking through the forest going to Silent hill, is that correct? Well those scene and levels has so many water effects, mud, light and shadow effects, and moving leaves.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That's not how this works.
Justin9mm
Member
Please let me know how it works then.
Justin9mm
Member
Who knows if it's issues is a limitation with the dev's ability or something more, Sony is working with various devs to provide support. I ended up playing SH2 on quality mode on my Pro because the game luckily does not rely heavily on combat and is slower movement. Performance mode's IQ wasn't great and so it was more immersive on Quality.
bender
What time is it?
when a boy loves a girl, he puts his Mr. Who Who in her....
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
They're not going to stop improving PSSR between now and 2026.
When developers release new games they release on the latest or recent SDKs. Those SDKs will include updated versions of PSSR. Issues with implementation are going to be things that will be improved over time as well...
You trying to convince yourself that the PS6 is coming out sooner rather than later just to minimize the need for the PS5 Pro is laughable since everything we've seen indicates a later rather than sooner release of the PS6.
Court documents, the release of the PS5 Pro, the very investments they're putting into PSSR. They have zero incentive to rush the release of the PS6, but even when the PS6 does release, having a trove of PS5 Pro titles to enhance are going to make the PS6 even more impressive. Hopefully more and more games release feature rich with unlocked framerate/vrr modes.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Inherently it is an implementation issue because it all comes down to the design of the game and the targeted performance.
The lower the resolution you try to upscale for example, the heavier the upscaler is going to have to work. If your game targets 60 fps, depending on what native resolution PSSR can deliver 60 fps consistently at will determine the native resolution, but the effects that you've built in your game and how efficient and effective the code running on the engine are all going to play a part in that equation.
Let's say your specific effect doesn't play well with PSSR and you put in a support ticket with Sony's ML team and there is no existing fix for it, so they have to add it to the roadmap for PSSR updates in order to fix, but also keep in mind yours isn't the only support ticket that's been submitted. The team then has to triage the requests and focus on what is either easiest to implement or will resolve the bigger/most common issues, while still trying to keep PSSR as lightweight as possible. You also probably update in big chunks rather than releasing small revisions to avoid developers from having to do significant testing with each new revision. It would be great if we could hear from developers first hand, but we don't have access to them here anymore.
People focus on a game like Silent Hill 2 not getting a new update and they have no idea why and how many moving parts there are.
Based on what Ubisoft is saying here, they're feeling confident that PSSR is able to resolve better than TAA in all applications moving forward, so we should hopefully see updates for games that have defaulted back to TAA.
Justin9mm
Member
How can you understand what I'm saying if you don't know the posts that came before my comments? For starters the original OP was talking about FSR4, I was just making an exaggerated joke that by the time we start reaping the benefits the PS6 will be out, meaning years. You know, in saying once released, it will take a while for devs to fully take advantage.
You trying to convince yourself that the PS6 is coming out sooner rather than later just to minimize the need for the PS5 Pro is laughable since everything we've seen indicates a later rather than sooner release of the PS6.
What the actual fuck are you on about? Where did I say or elude or even give the impression, I think the PS6 coming out sooner? Of course it's years away, the point of my actual fucking joke! I'm 41 and been gaming like 30+ years, you don't think I know a thing or two about console lifecycles and when it may be released! Why are you making shit up and putting words in my mouth? Are you sure you're even responding to the right person? Seems like you're having a completely different conversation. I don't even know how you can get all that out of my previous very short sentenced comments.. You must be a wizard!
I think you've completely mis-comprehended everything and me having to explain/breakdown a joke about waiting for good FSR4 implementation is absurd.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Pretty much all this guy does.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Jokes are supposed to be funny... What was the punch line of your joke? Did anyone laugh at it? No one thought it was a joke and you doubled down with nonsense...
Stop trolling, you're quickly exposing yourself as a low quality poster...
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Unlike you who did so a long time ago.
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