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UFC 193 OT: Ronda Rousey vs Holly Holm / First PPV headlined by 2 womens Title Fights
- Thread starter Obliterator
- Start date
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Rousy losing was sort of good and bad for womens MMA. I've never seen so much excitement for a sport with female applicants like this. I couldn't walk around NYC without over hearing some off ahdn comment or a full conversation about that fight this past week.
On one hand I think Rousey losing this badly hurts the image for the bandwagoners who were emotionally invested in her success and now have to put up with the back talk their favorite is getting. But her loss is exposing women's MMA to people who weren't following it or MMA in general. We'll see how this plays out over the year. The rematch and rise (or lack thereof) of newer and better female athletes will determine if this will be taken more seriously than a lot women's sports aren't compared to their male counterparts (aside from Tennis).
It should be Princess Holly killed Queen Rousey
On one hand I think Rousey losing this badly hurts the image for the bandwagoners who were emotionally invested in her success and now have to put up with the back talk their favorite is getting. But her loss is exposing women's MMA to people who weren't following it or MMA in general. We'll see how this plays out over the year. The rematch and rise (or lack thereof) of newer and better female athletes will determine if this will be taken more seriously than a lot women's sports aren't compared to their male counterparts (aside from Tennis).
It should be Princess Holly killed Queen Rousey
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Heh, not gonna lie, but from that one knockout gif I've seen (and two gifs are all that I've seen from this whole match) it did look like Holly's last two punches after the KO kick were decidedly WWE-like, clearly missing Ronda's head. But I figured it was just a camera angle, or perhaps some kind of "ok, let's not mutilate her" approach, basically inviting the ref to stop the fight.
WTF dude?
The Silver
Member
you aren't a junior so you aren't new and ignorant, what possessed you to think posting this was ok?
Baldwin_the_First
Member
Yeah that's all kind of fucked up.
StylesClash
Member
Umm that's a ban.
RedAssedApe
Banned
yeah...that wasn't funny and pretty offensive.
Goodbye
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I've been to sherdog forums yesterday when someone here suggested things are going to get crazy there after this fight. The amount of 'jokes' like that was... surprising.
That was what i meant?
-MD-
Member
I'm glad you decided to back seat mod just to keep the image up.
wait..what?? people actually think this was a work?
You have to be the dumbest people ..EVER to think that.
If it was going to be a work, ronda wouldve been choked out, not beat down like she was.
Its easier to say it was a lucky move, rather than saying she was dominated the whole match.
This is the UFC, not WWE.
You have to be the dumbest people ..EVER to think that.
If it was going to be a work, ronda wouldve been choked out, not beat down like she was.
Its easier to say it was a lucky move, rather than saying she was dominated the whole match.
This is the UFC, not WWE.
_illmatic_
Member
RedAssedApe
Banned
just TAZ
Always-honest
Banned
Wtf?
Are you newer to Sherdog? It used to be worse, far worse. Half of the forum was either Stormfront crossovers or redpiller's. That's no exaggeration.
So yeah, tasteless images like the one posted above abound there.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
dumbasses gonna get this legendary thread locked.
OoOoOhhh.. a Chuck "Fuckit." gif? Gimme please and thank you.
and are we still talking about Ronda? I left for a weekend and came back and this thread is - somehow - still alive?
Kind of amazing, honestly.
Always-honest
Banned
That surely must be his most aweful episode. Not just the ronda stuff. Everything in that episode is so.. Off.
I have to admit that i do like listening to some of his podcasts but this.. Damn. It's like they dragged eachother down in a pit of stupidity.
-MD-
Member
He actually uses Jake Ellenberger to back up what he's saying.
When was the last time Ellenberger looked good in a fight?
I can't even remember any Ellenberger fights, let alone how he performed in then. But looking at his lat 5 fights, probably not too well haha.
Honestly, I liked Ronda alot in her SF Challenger days. But I think she's just become an entirely different person after all the asskissing and hype she's been fed. And that's not entirely her fault because many people would end up that way. But wow, the kind of shit people tell her, and that happens on a daily basis.
This is a bit OT but- Sherdog predates Reddit. So me calling posters there "redpillers" is retroactive but appropriate. I'm not sure where the term originated from, but "red pill" generally refers to the Reddit subreddit and similar groups. Sherdog forums have long been home to those attitudes, and racism, and antisemitism, and homophobia, and so on. I don't go there as much as I used to but a lot of the worst elements have been cleaned out. edit: still, their bar of "acceptable" is far different than NeoGAF's.
AlteredForms
Banned
Vadrigar is going to get banned, I'm calling it right now. I've been suspended over some petty sh*t, but his was uncalled for.
Your Entertainer
Member
Just read the Cauldron article, and imo it was fantastic on the whole. On my phone so I can't link it, but I def recommend it.
funkystudent
Member
So as someone who doesn't follow MMA outside of occasionally watching it while getting drunk at a friends house how obvious was the outcome of this fight?
Was Ronda getting called out for being sloppy before? What she being super protected by UFC and being fed jobbers or what this just a bad night for her?
Is Holly Holm a participially good fighter?
Was Ronda getting called out for being sloppy before? What she being super protected by UFC and being fed jobbers or what this just a bad night for her?
Is Holly Holm a participially good fighter?
Obliterator
Member
Well this is interesting. Betting lines are already open for Rousey vs Holm 2.
And Rousey is the betting favorite
http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/11/...betting-favorite-over-holly-holm-in-potential
And Rousey is the betting favorite
http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/11/...betting-favorite-over-holly-holm-in-potential
The outcome was not obvious, for a lot of different reasons. I mean, I picked Rousey to win quickly. See, you have to put Rousey in the proper context- women's MMA is still a budding sport. It's where men's MMA was 10 years ago. And in that environment, someone like Ronda Rousey who is 1) an amazing grappler and 2) the best athlete in her division can be dominant.
There was a fighter named Mark Kerr in the late 90's. He was a Div 1 wrestling champ in college and entered MMA with minimal striking or submission training. Despite this, he reeled off a string of dominant wins. Here's Kerr:
He was a monster athlete.
Rousey is a lot like Mark Kerr- a world-class grappler and an amazing athlete. MMA rules favor grapplers, especially wrestlers and also judoka like RR. The problem is, eventually every grappler run into a striker who they can't take down and are forced to fight standing. This is what happened over the weekend. Is Holly Holm a good fighter? Well, yes. She's one of the three most-decorated pro boxers to ever fight in MMA.
_illmatic_
Member
I always thought "red pill" was a Matrix term. "You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
Your Entertainer
Member
She was always called out for being sloppy by long time fans and people who trained. The women's division has sported a ridiculously lower level of skill. Her most recent challenger was an accountant who took up MMA to stay fit around 4 years ago. Regardless, Rousey was parroted as pound for pound great, and "not just once in a lifetime but once ever." Her coach spoke of her "dropping boxing world champions in the gym daily with body shots" (paraphrasing). She consistently injected herself into fantasy match ups with men, further devaluing the idea of Women's MMA as a sport with its own merit. When that was constantly replayed in the echo chamber of casual fandom and mainstream appeal, it quickly became nauseating. Beyond that, she came off as rude - to her opponents and in general. Trashing Mayweather for domestic violence while dating Travis Browne, who is caught up in a dispute for allegedly beating his spouse. Being a sandy hook truther. Even knowing some of it is an act doesn't make it less irritating.
Holy Holm won world titles in other combat sports, and had decent (but not spectacular showings) in the UFC prior. It was not just a "bad night" - she got beaten in every aspect of the game. Holly stopped Ronda in the clinch from imposing her will and went on to dominate the striking, and ultimate KO her. This wasn't a "lucky" shot or fluke performance. Ronda got exposed - for not being nearly the invincible and skilled fighter she was made out to be - no two ways about it.
It is. I'm not sure how MRAs adopted it, though, or how it came to be linked to them.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The outcome was not obvious, for a lot of different reasons. I mean, I picked Rousey to win quickly. See, you have to put Rousey in the proper context- women's MMA is still a budding sport. It's where men's MMA was 10 years ago. And in that environment, someone like Ronda Rousey who is 1) an amazing grappler and 2) the best athlete in her division can be dominant.
There was a fighter named Mark Kerr in the late 90's. He was a Div 1 wrestling champ in college and entered MMA with minimal striking or submission training. Despite this, he reeled off a string of dominant wins. Here's Kerr:
He was a monster athlete.
Rousey is a lot like Mark Kerr- a world-class grappler and an amazing athlete. MMA rules favor grapplers, especially wrestlers and also judoka like RR. The problem is, eventually every grappler run into a striker who they can't take down and are forced to fight standing. This is what happened over the weekend. Is Holly Holm a good fighter? Well, yes. She's one of the three most-decorated pro boxers to ever fight in MMA.
Brock is another example. His fundamentals especially in striking were pretty terrible. Relied on his strength and freak speed/athleticism to bull rush guys but much like Ronda once somebody punched him in the face it changes their whole game plan.
Unless he is fighting Shane Carwin.
It looks like Rousey might be out for a while due to a medical suspension. Some opinion from cormier and aldo at the link too. http://www.skysports.com/more-sports/ufc/news/29877/10070584/ronda-rousey-facing-six-month-medical-suspension-following-knockout-loss
Comfort Jones
Banned
I don't even get the "joke" in that image.
The outcome was not obvious, for a lot of different reasons. I mean, I picked Rousey to win quickly. See, you have to put Rousey in the proper context- women's MMA is still a budding sport. It's where men's MMA was 10 years ago. And in that environment, someone like Ronda Rousey who is 1) an amazing grappler and 2) the best athlete in her division can be dominant.
There was a fighter named Mark Kerr in the late 90's. He was a Div 1 wrestling champ in college and entered MMA with minimal striking or submission training. Despite this, he reeled off a string of dominant wins. Here's Kerr:
He was a monster athlete.
Rousey is a lot like Mark Kerr- a world-class grappler and an amazing athlete. MMA rules favor grapplers, especially wrestlers and also judoka like RR. The problem is, eventually every grappler run into a striker who they can't take down and are forced to fight standing. This is what happened over the weekend. Is Holly Holm a good fighter? Well, yes. She's one of the three most-decorated pro boxers to ever fight in MMA.
How do you figure that? It's the complete opposite:
1. MMA starts standing and is reset to standing at the start of each round, regardless of how the last one ended. So a grappler can take you down, dominate you for a round but you are given a reprieve when the bell goes.
2. Refs will stand fighters up for inactivity on the ground.
3. The short rounds don't give grapplers much time to work at all (submissions take time to set up) before they are reset to standing.
4. The gloves favour strikers because they protect the hands and reinforce them into an unnaturally rigid shape - meaning that you can hit way harder than you could without them. Their smaller size (compared to boxing gloves) also means punches are harder to block. Finally the gloves get in the way when grapplers would otherwise be able to worm their hands into advantageous positions.
It was true in the early days that MMA rules were set up to play to the strengths of BJJ (no rounds, 20 minute matches, bare knuckle, no stand ups), but these days the rules are heavily weighted toward strikers - mainly because fans prefer knock outs to grappling.
Those medical suspensions don't actually mean much of anything. She could go to a doctor in a month and get herself cleared to fight sooner.
Yeah that's a great example as well. Lesnar was an even better athlete than Kerr. He survived a war with Carwin (which I thought would be stopped in the first) but he couldn't do that against Cain or Overeem.
Because of the scoring. Takedowns are weighted heavily, along with being in top position. So fighters like wrestlers and judoka have the advantage if they can get the takedown and just ride out the round with minimal GnP or submission attempts from inside the guard.
Now for finishing fights, I agree with you, the rules don't really favor grapplers. And generally refs have gotten better about standing fighters up due to inactivity.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
To be fair it was Roid Reem
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