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[PeteBull]

This brotha there liked his gf masculine too, completely straight, no judgement

 

[Blackage]

My take is that if this is as big of an issue as Asmongold and some of you think, the market will correct itself eventually.

If it’s not, and games with these so-called 'ugly, masculine' female leads keep selling, then clearly it’s not as big of a deal as you’re making it out to be. You’ll just have to deal with it because apparently, these games are good enough that you can’t ignore them. Honestly, if you think Horizon Zero Dawn only sold 20 million copies because Aloy doesn’t look as dolled up as that meme of her in makeup, or that Mary Jane’s face tanked Spider-Man sales, or that Ellie and Abby being 'butch lesbians' in The Last of Us 2 stopped it from moving 10+ million units—versus its actual narrative issues compared to the first game—you’re delusional. And Witcher 4? Its sales won’t suffer because Ciri’s the lead and she’s not fighting monsters with Stellar Blade's wardrobe with 2B’s ass. You’re out of your mind if you think that’s the case. (Besides, PC mods exist, so if that’s really your thing, there’s your outlet!)

It’s not like we’re hurting for hot women in video games. Almost every gacha game in the last five years has been a waifu simulator catering to every body type. Big titty waifu? Check. Thick thighs? Check. Phat ass? Check. Tomboy waifu? Check. Short, loli, 10,000-year-old dragon waifu? Check. There’s no shortage of women designed to appeal to every straight dude’s preferences. The 'sex sells' market is thriving. The Last Descendant is a decent example: an okay looter shooter that probably benefited from its T&A factor.

This whole argument feels contradictory. Everyone says they want to play these games because they’re good, but they’re also upset the women aren’t as ridiculously hot as in older titles. And I’m just like... okay? Then don’t buy it! The market will sort itself out.

And let’s address the 'Oh, the game failed because the girls weren’t hot' argument. Ehhhh, really? Most games that failed did so because they just weren’t good. There’s a thin line between 'uninspired games fail because they’re uninspired' and 'oh, and the girls weren’t hot, that’s why it flopped.' If you want to take this farther, you could probably trace those failures back to the actual issue: talent exodus and developer retention problems in the industry(But that's another argument).

The strongest argument you could make for this would be a game like Concord. And you know what? I agree. Everyone in that game—men and women—looked awful, and that’s a hero shooter where you need cool characters to play as. The first time I saw Reaper in Overwatch, I needed to play him and cackle evilly while blasting shotguns. The first time I saw Wesker in Marvel vs. Capcom 3, I knew I’d main him on day one(I STILL USE HIM AS MY AVATAR BRING HIM BACK CAPCOM!). But with Concord, there wasn’t a single character I looked at and thought, 'Damn, I’d love to play as that.' That’s a problem.

So yes, appearances matter in some games. But for a lot of the titles people complain about, I’m just not convinced that 'sexing everyone up' is as important as these guys keep rambling about.

 

[Umbral]

lol they are 2 aging guys.
She is too trained very fit soldier.
I find it very realistic. Besides, she doesn’t straight out win this fight. She holds them off.
It’s more unbelievable what drake does in the game rather than her fighting well.

In reality, the Drake brothers, even drunk, would have absolutely mopped the floor with her dumb ass. Two grown-ass men. Zero chance she makes it out of that room conscious.

Hell, Sam could have just refereed the fight and let Nate do the work.

Edit: It’s surreal that anybody even has to argue this point. What is happening to people?

 

[FunkMiller]

My take is that if this is as big of an issue as Asmongold and some of you think, the market will correct itself eventually.

If it’s not, and games with these so-called 'ugly, masculine' female leads keep selling, then clearly it’s not as big of a deal as you’re making it out to be. You’ll just have to deal with it because apparently, these games are good enough that you can’t ignore them. Honestly, if you think Horizon Zero Dawn only sold 20 million copies because Aloy doesn’t look as dolled up as that meme of her in makeup, or that Mary Jane’s face tanked Spider-Man sales, or that Ellie and Abby being 'butch lesbians' in The Last of Us 2 stopped it from moving 10+ million units—versus its actual narrative issues compared to the first game—you’re delusional. And Witcher 4? Its sales won’t suffer because Ciri’s the lead and she’s not fighting monsters with Stellar Blade's wardrobe with 2B’s ass. You’re out of your mind if you think that’s the case. (Besides, PC mods exist, so if that’s really your thing, there’s your outlet!)

It’s not like we’re hurting for hot women in video games. Almost every gacha game in the last five years has been a waifu simulator catering to every body type. Big titty waifu? Check. Thick thighs? Check. Phat ass? Check. Tomboy waifu? Check. Short, loli, 10,000-year-old dragon waifu? Check. There’s no shortage of women designed to appeal to every straight dude’s preferences. The 'sex sells' market is thriving. The Last Descendant is a decent example: an okay looter shooter that probably benefited from its T&A factor.

This whole argument feels contradictory. Everyone says they want to play these games because they’re good, but they’re also upset the women aren’t as ridiculously hot as in older titles. And I’m just like... okay? Then don’t buy it! The market will sort itself out.

And let’s address the 'Oh, the game failed because the girls weren’t hot' argument. Ehhhh, really? Most games that failed did so because they just weren’t good. There’s a thin line between 'uninspired games fail because they’re uninspired' and 'oh, and the girls weren’t hot, that’s why it flopped.' If you want to take this farther, you could probably trace those failures back to the actual issue: talent exodus and developer retention problems in the industry(But that's another argument).

The strongest argument you could make for this would be a game like Concord. And you know what? I agree. Everyone in that game—men and women—looked awful, and that’s a hero shooter where you need cool characters to play as. The first time I saw Reaper in Overwatch, I needed to play him and cackle evilly while blasting shotguns. The first time I saw Wesker in Marvel vs. Capcom 3, I knew I’d main him on day one(I STILL USE HIM AS MY AVATAR BRING HIM BACK CAPCOM!). But with Concord, there wasn’t a single character I looked at and thought, 'Damn, I’d love to play as that.' That’s a problem.

So yes, appearances matter in some games. But for a lot of the titles people complain about, I’m just not convinced that 'sexing everyone up' is as important as these guys keep rambling about.

This well thought out argument would be stronger if the debate was just around what she looks like. It isn't though. It's as much about how the character is presented to us.

We have all frankly had quite enough of the strong girl boss character. It's tired, lazy and so overdone, it now rivals the dudebro flat top white dudes of 00s gaming for sheer eye rolling dullness.

This is not just about her having a bald head. It's about how she's coded throughout the trailer, both in terms of her physical characteristics, and what we've had revealed to us in terms of her character.

Marry that with a frankly tired aesthetic and 'aww gee shucks, ain't that kitsch!' product placement and usage of 80s pop music, and you have something that is quite rightly being criticised across multiple platforms.

 

[Pimpbaa]

It sucks, but we did get Stellar Blade this year.

 

[Rickyiez]

Let me add a thing about forspoken.
Frey actress is a supermodel. She is gorgeous. And in game model is perfect. She is not masculine at all. And has a fun straight to the point ny teen character.

And so what? It didn’t help at all. People still attack her and the game for being woke trash and it’s absolutely none of those things. Not even sbi included.
They cast supermodel in a game and people behave all the same.

Man I am so sad that game got ignored and straight hated by everyone and memes on twitter. I genuinely think it’s one of better games that year

Let’s put it this way. If the game is already solid , it will sell no matter how ugly is the character. For example Returnal.

But imagine if the game is already solid , and Selene is hot , it will definitely boost the sales even more. Like it will instantly became a system seller. For example Samus Aran, she became the mascot for Nintendo because why ? We all know it’s not because she looks old and grumpy. Same goes to Sarah Kerrigan , Lara Croft , Joanna Dark , Jill Valentine

 

[DoktorCoktor]

Let’s put it this way. If the game is already solid , it will sell no matter how ugly is the character. For example Returnal.

But imagine if the game is already solid , and Selene is hot , it will definitely boost the sales even more. Like it will instantly became a system seller. For example Samus Aran, she became the mascot for Nintendo because why ? We all know it’s not because she looks old and grumpy. Same goes to Sarah Kerrigan , Lara Croft , Joanna Dark , Jill Valentine

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but Nintendo's mascot is definitely that Italian shroom addict. Your argument is sound, of course.

 

[rofif]

In reality, the Drake brothers, even drunk, would have absolutely mopped the floor with her dumb ass. Two grown-ass men. Zero chance she makes it out of that room conscious.

Hell, Sam could have just refereed the fight and let Nate do the work.

Edit: It’s surreal that anybody even has to argue this point. What is happening to people?

Reality expert over here

 

[MaestroMike]

In anime all the men have pointy chins like women/children none are square jawed they be looking feminine

maybe let Japanese handle the female character designs and westerners handle the male character designs

 

[mrqs]

In anime all the men have pointy chins like women/children none are square jawed they be looking feminine

maybe let Japanese handle the female character designs and westerners handle the male character designs

Or maybe let the developers reflect their cultures and ideals in a way that pleases them? That's an option too, you know.

 

[MaestroMike]

Or maybe let the developers reflect their cultures and ideals in a way that pleases them? That's an option too, you know.

Developers should make what they wanna make but if something like a character design causes a lil controversy their marketing department needs to step up and tell gamers hold up for minute and keep an open mind and show some cool fun gameplay which is what’s most important the last part of the trailer was the coolest part it looked fun to me I love sci fi the character just looks like a chick on chemo doesn’t bother me but apparently some gamers aren’t too happy with it I’m in wait and see mode for the game I wanna see more game play

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Glad ND is being called out on this. Hope they cave to the pressure and update the character model to feminize her.

The masculinarizing of female characters in gaming and media is the worst trend in entertainment media. It's ironically misogynistic as it's a tacit admission that female leads essentially need to be men to be taken seriously as the leads in action roles.

This bullshit needs to die in fire where it belongs. We don't need women and girls in society shamed for being feminine, and we don't need female characters in fiction to look like fucking dudes, because some ridiculous cuck activists don't want straight male consumers to enjoy their escapism.

 

[Physiocrat]

Masculinising women as leads in action games kind of makes having a female protagonist less ridiculous as they look like they could perform a typically male role. However, in what situation would you chose a woman over a man in a military/violent situation, only if all the other men were old, injured or decrepit. So in almost all circumstances it makes no tactical sense.

So either don't make women as leads in action games if you want it to be vaguely realistic or just treat it as a fantasy and make them look good.

As an aside, the most realistic, in the gaming world, role for a female protagonist to be is some form of mage/witch character. Whilst not the main protagonist, Mellisandre from Game of Thrones is a good example.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Glad ND is being called out on this. Hope they cave to the pressure and update the character model to feminize her.

Not gonna happen. Druckmann knows that with 300m Dollar budget + another 10-15% marketing from Sony the game can't fail miserably and he can push his agenda/fetish whatever. He doesn't give a shit if his game sells a couple of 100k copies less.

You want something normal from Druckmann? Give him <50m Dollars + almost no marketing so he actually has to deliver something people like.

 

[PeteBull]

In reality, the Drake brothers, even drunk, would have absolutely mopped the floor with her dumb ass. Two grown-ass men. Zero chance she makes it out of that room conscious.

Hell, Sam could have just refereed the fight and let Nate do the work.

Edit: It’s surreal that anybody even has to argue this point. What is happening to people?

Woke virus, bro, its ok if women are delusional and think they are equal to men, they live life on ez mode so ofc cant comprehend how it is on hardmode, but guys, we all know how it really is, so no excuse for us, unless, and its most probably option- they trolling
Its like: how many men, even top martial artists, soldiers, actual strongmen, would it take to win barehanded vs 1 adult male gorrila, not 2, not 5, its obvious difference is humongous, same like difference between men and women

 

[Esppiral]

I couldn't care less if a main feminin lead is "ugly" (I find Chloe ugly as fuck) but the reason most of the time for that is to push an agenda and that is what I despise

 

[GymWolf]

It has been fun reading 5 pages of people who have no idea of the ginormous difference in skill and fighting prowess between men and women.

 

[Physiocrat]

It has been fun reading 5 pages of people who have no idea of the ginormous difference in skill and fighting prowess between men and women.

Yup. If you want women action leads just make it a proper fantasy with no pretense that the character is somehow realistic.

 

[GymWolf]

This actress hasn't been altered. People have continously posted this completely photoshopped image of her

as if her actual real traits "are bad and should be hidden". Whoever did that photoshop completely botched her actual jawline with the brush tool

Wait, this pic where she look like a full blown boyo is the flattering, photoshopped one?

She looks like neymar younger brother

 

[Three]

Glad ND is being called out on this. Hope they cave to the pressure and update the character model to feminize her.

The masculinarizing of female characters in gaming and media is the worst trend in entertainment media. It's ironically misogynistic as it's a tacit admission that female leads essentially need to be men to be taken seriously as the leads in action roles.

This bullshit needs to die in fire where it belongs. We don't need women and girls in society shamed for being feminine, and we don't need female characters in fiction to look like fucking dudes, because some ridiculous cuck activists don't want straight male consumers to enjoy their escapism.

The irony of this is that it's you whose shaming a real actor's looks. It's you who feels actors should look a certain way (long hair/makeup) to be taken seriously. It's you whose calling her a "fucking dude" when she's not.

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This is just a person. A person who despite what you might think she looks like wants to be taken seriously as a lead in an action role just like anybody else. She isn't a dude or even homosexual, as if there were something wrong with that in the first place.

 

[Three]

Wait, this pic where she look like a full blown boyo is the flattering, photoshopped one?

It's the one people share suggesting they altered her jawline in the game when they've clearly photoshopped that image instead. They always airbrush photoshoots and whoever did that did a poor visible job too.

 

[EviLore]

The irony of this is that it's you whose shaming a real actor's looks. It's you who feels actors should look a certain way (long hair/makeup) to be taken seriously. It's you whose calling her a "fucking dude" when she's not.

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This is just a person. A person who despite what you might think she looks like wants to be taken seriously as a lead in an action role just like anybody else. She isn't a dude or even homosexual, as if there were something wrong with that in the first place.

You're conflating the real life actress with a video game 3D model derived from the actress. They are not the same.

 

[WhamBamThankYouMaam]

My take is that if this is as big of an issue as Asmongold and some of you think, the market will correct itself eventually.

If it’s not, and games with these so-called 'ugly, masculine' female leads keep selling, then clearly it’s not as big of a deal as you’re making it out to be. You’ll just have to deal with it because apparently, these games are good enough that you can’t ignore them. Honestly, if you think Horizon Zero Dawn only sold 20 million copies because Aloy doesn’t look as dolled up as that meme of her in makeup, or that Mary Jane’s face tanked Spider-Man sales, or that Ellie and Abby being 'butch lesbians' in The Last of Us 2 stopped it from moving 10+ million units—versus its actual narrative issues compared to the first game—you’re delusional. And Witcher 4? Its sales won’t suffer because Ciri’s the lead and she’s not fighting monsters with Stellar Blade's wardrobe with 2B’s ass. You’re out of your mind if you think that’s the case. (Besides, PC mods exist, so if that’s really your thing, there’s your outlet!)

It’s not like we’re hurting for hot women in video games. Almost every gacha game in the last five years has been a waifu simulator catering to every body type. Big titty waifu? Check. Thick thighs? Check. Phat ass? Check. Tomboy waifu? Check. Short, loli, 10,000-year-old dragon waifu? Check. There’s no shortage of women designed to appeal to every straight dude’s preferences. The 'sex sells' market is thriving. The Last Descendant is a decent example: an okay looter shooter that probably benefited from its T&A factor.

This whole argument feels contradictory. Everyone says they want to play these games because they’re good, but they’re also upset the women aren’t as ridiculously hot as in older titles. And I’m just like... okay? Then don’t buy it! The market will sort itself out.

And let’s address the 'Oh, the game failed because the girls weren’t hot' argument. Ehhhh, really? Most games that failed did so because they just weren’t good. There’s a thin line between 'uninspired games fail because they’re uninspired' and 'oh, and the girls weren’t hot, that’s why it flopped.' If you want to take this farther, you could probably trace those failures back to the actual issue: talent exodus and developer retention problems in the industry(But that's another argument).

The strongest argument you could make for this would be a game like Concord. And you know what? I agree. Everyone in that game—men and women—looked awful, and that’s a hero shooter where you need cool characters to play as. The first time I saw Reaper in Overwatch, I needed to play him and cackle evilly while blasting shotguns. The first time I saw Wesker in Marvel vs. Capcom 3, I knew I’d main him on day one(I STILL USE HIM AS MY AVATAR BRING HIM BACK CAPCOM!). But with Concord, there wasn’t a single character I looked at and thought, 'Damn, I’d love to play as that.' That’s a problem.

So yes, appearances matter in some games. But for a lot of the titles people complain about, I’m just not convinced that 'sexing everyone up' is as important as these guys keep rambling about.

But we have to be able to masturbate All The Time!

Also, what is asmongolds track record like with real good looking feminine women?

 

[Mister Wolf]

But we have to be able to masturbate All The Time!

Also, what is asmongolds track record like with real good looking feminine women?

With the kind of money he has all he would need to do is pay to play just like all the athletes, musicians, and uber rich men do tricking their money off on beautiful women so they can get straight to the sex.

 

[Three]

You're conflating the real life actress with a video game 3D model derived from the actress. They are not the same.

I'm not sure I follow. What's the difference?

"It's ironically misogynistic as it's a tacit admission that female leads essentially need to be men to be taken seriously as the leads"
"We don't need women and girls in society shamed for being feminine"

Who in society has shamed a female for being feminine. The irony is that he's shaming those females in society that do not have those feminine traits.

 

[EviLore]

I'm not sure I follow. What's the difference?

???????????

 

[Boglin]

The irony of this is that it's you whose shaming a real actor's looks. It's you who feels actors should look a certain way (long hair/makeup) to be taken seriously. It's you whose calling her a "fucking dude" when she's not.

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This is just a person. A person who despite what you might think she looks like wants to be taken seriously as a lead in an action role just like anybody else. She isn't a dude or even homosexual, as if there were something wrong with that in the first place.

I agree with most of your sentiments, except that it seems you're implying what she wants should influence what other people want.
I care as much about her feelings of wanting to be taken seriously as a lead in an action role about as much as I'd care about John Goodman trying to get taken seriously as a Victoria secret model.

Clearly there's a large amount of people saying she appears androgynous or going as far as saying she looks like a "fucking dude", and it's because there's push back against moving away from conventional beauty standards towards a different standard. It's something a large portion of the audience aren't used to and may not be open to, especially after growing hyper sensitive to "woke" over the last couple of years. It's also a possibility that perhaps the actress was cast for the role and her likeness was used because Druckmann intentionally wanted an unattractive lead. But no matter what the case is, her appearance has an impact on how well she's received for any role she takes and her personal feelings about it don't matter. Not in the slightest.

 

[Three]

I agree with most of your sentiments, except that it seems you're implying what she wants should influence what other people want.
I care as much about her feelings of wanting to be taken seriously as a lead in an action role about as much as I'd care about John Goodman trying to get taken seriously as a Victoria secret model.

Clearly there's a large amount of people saying she appears androgynous or going as far as saying she looks like a "fucking dude", and it's because there's push back against moving away from conventional beauty standards towards a different standard. It's something a large portion of the audience aren't used to and may not be open to, especially after growing hyper sensitive to "woke" over the last couple of years. It's also a possibility that perhaps the actress was cast for the role and her likeness was used because Druckmann intentionally wanted an unattractive lead. But no matter what the case is, her appearance has an impact on how well she's received for any role she takes and her personal feelings about it don't matter. Not in the slightest.

I'm not implying that what she wants should be what other people want in their entertainment. I'm questioning the assertion that her being in this role is somehow "shaming feminine females" when it's ironically him shaming her looks and all those who look like her instead. suggesting she's not fit for a leading role.

Nobody and I mean absolutely nobody shamed this character lead in lost legacy did they?

So why is he acting like the feminine females are somehow victims getting shamed when he's doing the complete opposite and shaming Tati's appearance for not being feminine.

 

[captainnapalm]

Glad ND is being called out on this. Hope they cave to the pressure and update the character model to feminize her.

They will never change it. They know this shit is incredibly unpopular but they will keep doing it because a) they think they know better than you and b) they think they are better than you. You see the way woke people behave on places like reddit or Twitter - they're utterly convinced of their moral and intellectual superiority to the point where even disagreeing with them can get you shunned.

Only when enough of these games bomb will any change happen and even then I'm not sure - I think they'd happily tank the industry before admitting they're wrong and misguided.

 

[Black_Stride]

Glad ND is being called out on this. Hope they cave to the pressure and update the character model to feminize her.

The model is locked in now.
This controversy aint gonna do jack to their design.
If anything theyll up the fidelity in the polish stage but they aint changing it.

 

[Cakeboxer]

The model is locked in now.
This controversy aint gonna do jack to their design.
If anything theyll up the fidelity in the polish stage but they aint changing it.

I would love it if they had a sense of humor. They could add an optional (via settings) ugly wig and if you completely finish the game with that you get a trophy called incel.

 

[rofif]

The model is locked in now.
This controversy aint gonna do jack to their design.
If anything theyll up the fidelity in the polish stage but they aint changing it.

Yep. They will not change it at all. Maybe add some costumes

 

[captainnapalm]

My take is that if this is as big of an issue as Asmongold and some of you think, the market will correct itself eventually.

If it’s not, and games with these so-called 'ugly, masculine' female leads keep selling, then clearly it’s not as big of a deal as you’re making it out to be. You’ll just have to deal with it because apparently, these games are good enough that you can’t ignore them. Honestly, if you think Horizon Zero Dawn only sold 20 million copies because Aloy doesn’t look as dolled up as that meme of her in makeup, or that Mary Jane’s face tanked Spider-Man sales, or that Ellie and Abby being 'butch lesbians' in The Last of Us 2 stopped it from moving 10+ million units—versus its actual narrative issues compared to the first game—you’re delusional. And Witcher 4? Its sales won’t suffer because Ciri’s the lead and she’s not fighting monsters with Stellar Blade's wardrobe with 2B’s ass. You’re out of your mind if you think that’s the case. (Besides, PC mods exist, so if that’s really your thing, there’s your outlet!)

We'll see - I don't think Ciri as a Witcher sells nearly as much as Geralt - but we'll find out. The success of W3 has given them a built in audience so they can ride that wave for a while as so many of these franchises are doing based on past successes when they were still in tune with their audiences.

Sony is an interesting one because they are riding high on tons of goodwill but the backlash has definitely started. All their recent sequels were less well received than their predecessors and we've just seen the first major Sony single-player trailer get downvoted into oblivion - and from darlings Naughty Dog no less. They could soon join the likes of Bioware and Rocksteady on the reputational scrap heap if they're not careful.

 

[duck_sauce]

Woke virus, bro, its ok if women are delusional and think they are equal to men, they live life on ez mode so ofc cant comprehend how it is on hardmode, but guys, we all know how it really is, so no excuse for us, unless, and its most probably option- they trolling
Its like: how many men, even top martial artists, soldiers, actual strongmen, would it take to win barehanded vs 1 adult male gorrila, not 2, not 5, its obvious difference is humongous, same like difference between men and women

You’re out here dropping woke virus like it’s the final boss of your life, but I gotta say, it sounds like women living on easy mode is the only coping strategy you’ve unlocked to explain why they’re out here thriving while you’re stuck complaining.
If women are so delusional for thinking they’re equal, why are you so pressed? Shouldn’t you be busy speedrunning life on hard mode instead of being triggered by someone playing their own game? Maybe it’s less about women trolling and more about you respawning with zero upgrades every time.

 

[Thief1987]

The model is locked in now.
This controversy aint gonna do jack to their design.
If anything theyll up the fidelity in the polish stage but they aint changing it.

Well, it's their money to waste, and sony love to be the laughing stock of the world.

 

[Boglin]

I'm not implying that what she wants should be what other people want in their entertainment. I'm questioning the assertion that her being in this role is somehow "shaming feminine females" when it's ironically him shaming her looks and all those who look like her instead. suggesting she's not fit for a leading role.

Nobody and I mean absolutely nobody shamed this character lead in lost legacy did they?

So why is he acting like the feminine females are somehow victims getting shamed when he's doing the complete opposite and shaming Tati's appearance for not being feminine.

I think I get you now, and if we were talking about Intergalactic in a vacuum, or if that user is actually saying what you perceive his argument as then I think you'd be undeniably right for calling it out.

However, I don't think his argument was that Tati isn't fit for the role, but instead it's that he's tired of there no longer seeming to be a role for feminity at all in modern western AAA titles. This goes back to what I said about people being hypersensitive now to woke now, which has been instigated by a change game developers' priorities that has happened over past several years. It didn't really become a problem for people until some time after lost legacy's release.

Speaking somewhat hyperbolically, if the game developers in question continue to only represent women who are androgynous or more on the masculine side of the spectrum for action roles moving forward, then doesn't that send the message that femininity no longer has a place in western AAA titles? I can feel it changing in that direction and so do many others, where it's as if western devs suddenly gave up on attractive women all at once. So rather than offering audiences a variety of female protagonists by moving away from strictly hot women they're now only offering the opposite, but I'm not sure why pandering to an audience who wants only masculine women is more lucrative than the established audience.

 

[MayauMiao]

I'm not implying that what she wants should be what other people want in their entertainment. I'm questioning the assertion that her being in this role is somehow "shaming feminine females" when it's ironically him shaming her looks and all those who look like her instead. suggesting she's not fit for a leading role.

Nobody and I mean absolutely nobody shamed this character lead in lost legacy did they?

So why is he acting like the feminine females are somehow victims getting shamed when he's doing the complete opposite and shaming Tati's appearance for not being feminine.

She's genuinely charming, funny and voiced by Claudia Black. She also don't talk like an angst teenager and much like a mature woman with brains.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

The irony of this is that it's you whose shaming a real actor's looks. It's you who feels actors should look a certain way (long hair/makeup) to be taken seriously. It's you whose calling her a "fucking dude" when she's not.

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This is just a person. A person who despite what you might think she looks like wants to be taken seriously as a lead in an action role just like anybody else. She isn't a dude or even homosexual, as if there were something wrong with that in the first place.

WTH are you talking about?

Where did I say anything about the real actress in that post? I was talking about the 3D model bearing the resemblance of the actress, which is wholly the developer's creation.

The actual actress Tati Gabrielle is gorgeous and about as feminine as feminine can get. And even if she wasn't my point would still stand. My point is not talking issue with individual women's appearance. Rather I'm calling out a shitty trend that basically bars any feminine looking female protagonists in gaming or entertainment.

So no. It's devs pushing this trend that are being misogynist. Not me from calling them out. You have to do some real mental gymnastics to come to the latter conclusion.

I'm not sure I follow. What's the difference?

"It's ironically misogynistic as it's a tacit admission that female leads essentially need to be men to be taken seriously as the leads"
"We don't need women and girls in society shamed for being feminine"

Who in society has shamed a female for being feminine.

The radical left activists that make an intentional choice to prohibit any sort of sexual attractive features in their female characters, because Feminist Frequency told them it's not "realistic" or "only there for the male gaze". They are the one's discriminating against feminine female characters in games by choosing to make only masculine ones. It's them indirectly stating that only masculine women can be action leads... which is a tacit admission that only masculinity proffers strength---which is inherently misogynistic.

O.G. Lara Croft is an example of a feminine heroine and has been lauded as a strong female lead since her creation. You don't need to make women look like men to make players respect them.

The irony is that he's shaming those females in society that do not have those feminine traits.

You really have do some crazy mental gymnastics and strawmanning of my post to jump to this conclusion. I made a clear statement about the insistence of devs choosing to only make masculine looking women characters in gaming. That in no way implies I'm making any sort of statement about real masculine-looking women. It's a complete non sequitur. A failure of your logic that you jumped to some BS strawman like that.

The model is locked in now.

No it's not.

Sucker Punch changed the look of Cole in Infamous 2 due to public backlash. Even modding games on PC should tell you that any 3D model in a game can be swapped out at any point in development or even afterwards. There is literally no limitation to them making a change to a character model, other than the will and desire to do so.

 

[Three]

I think I get you now, and if we were talking about Intergalactic in a vacuum, or if that user is actually saying what you perceive his argument as then I think you'd be undeniably right for calling it out.

I get your rationality about hypersensitivity in todays environment and the idea that after "gamergate"/Sarkeesian things have perhaps gone extreme the other way. Lost legacy was after gamergate/Sarkeesian and done by Druckmann still though.

I'm not sure how else to perceive this argument though when a female main character has less feminine traits based on a real person:

Hope they cave to the pressure and update the character model to feminize her.

It's ironically misogynistic as it's a tacit admission that female leads essentially need to be men to be taken seriously as the leads in action roles.

We don't need women and girls in society shamed for being feminine, and we don't need female characters in fiction to look like fucking dudes

Ironically all he is doing is asking society to shame those who look like Tati Gabrielle without makeup. she doesn't even look that androgynous to me. This is more 'a tacit admission' that females need to look a certain way to be taken seriously as the lead in an action role, namely makeup and long hair to "feminise" the character due to pressure. He is forcing his standard for the lead to be taken seriously, he's the one shaming the look of actual women in society. Nobody has really shamed feminine women in games or in society for this to be considered "misogynistic". That's a damn reach.

 

[Three]

WTH are you talking about?

Where did I say anything about the real actress in that post? I was talking about the 3D model bearing the resemblance of the actress, which is wholly the developer's creation.
The actual actress Tati Gabrielle is gorgeous and about as feminine as feminine can get. And even if she wasn't my point would still stand. My point is not talking issue with individual women's appearance. Rather I'm calling out a shitty trend that basically bars any feminine looking female protagonists in gaming or entertainment.

The model is a 3d scan of the actual real world actress simply without makeup alone in space. Nobody has barred feminine looking females from games. You seem to be barring less feminine looking females from games though by asking them to feminise her more due to pressure. You're shaming those who might look like her because she isn't feminine enough.

 

[Black_Stride]

No it's not.

Sucker Punch changed the look of Cole in Infamous 2 due to public backlash. Even modding games on PC should tell you that any 3D model in a game can be swapped out at any point in development or even afterwards. There is literally no limitation to them making a change to a character model, other than the will and desire to do so.

Keep hope alive I guess.

But No they arent gonna change this character model, not in anyway that "people" want.
The redesign was just to make him look closer to inFamous 1 Cole and less like Nathan Drake.
It was pretty much just a hair cut and subtle changes to his face.

This is a different situation.

 

[InterMusketeer]

This whole argument feels contradictory. Everyone says they want to play these games because they’re good, but they’re also upset the women aren’t as ridiculously hot as in older titles. And I’m just like... okay? Then don’t buy it! The market will sort itself out.

I can't speak for others, but I'm not posting in these Intergalactic threads because I desperately want to play the game but can't because I'm salty the character looks ugly. My goal isn't for ND to change the game at all. Frankly, I don't give a fuck about this game. It goes on the same pile as thousands of other (good) games I don't care for.

I find this discussion interesting because it's ultimately about the trends and patterns visible throughout the industry, and the backlash it has resulted in. A backlash journalists and the industry at large have been desperately trying to downplay and ignore. And I'd argue those trends didn't come about naturally, but through activism from within and without. The market can't sort itself out because customers have been sidelined in favor of corporate and political interests.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

The model is a 3d scan of the actual real world actress simply without makeup alone in space.

No... the model is clearly far more muscular than the real actress. It's not just a 3D scan. You're quite wrong on this.

They gave her shoulders, bulked her delts, gave her biceps. Her face isn't nearly as gaunt as the real actress.

The model is clearly different.

Nobody has barred feminine looking females from games.

You're clearly not paying attention to like the past 5 yrs of western games. If you don't notice, are not seeing, or are just willfully ignorant of the trend, then I can't help you, Three.

Nobody else on this forum is denying there is a clear trend in western developed games to masculinarize female characters but you. That should tell you you're thinking clearly or objectively on this subject.

You seem to be barring less feminine looking females from games though by asking them to feminise her more due to pressure.

Fucking ugh!!!

If I'd said there are not enough black female leads in gaming and that a single dev and a single game should switch up their white female lead for a black one, would I be barring white female leads from gaming? Of fucking course not.... why?.... Well. because there's already a fucking bajillion of them.

Asking to change a single character in one game out of a million, isn't barring masculine female characters. You're being silly now.

You're shaming those who might look like her because she isn't feminine enough.

No I'm fucking not. I'm saying that devs are making far too many masculine female characters. That statement makes no value judgement of masculine females. It's a criticism of their frequency as leads in games and media. Stop strawmanning my argument, pay attention to the nuance and try to comprehend what I'm actually saying.

 

[Three]

No... the model is clearly far more muscular than the real actress. It's not just a 3D scan. You're quite wrong on this.

What am I looking at, she looks the same. Just with makeup and smiling in the second photo. Tati also gained muscles when shooting as Jo Braddock in the uncharted movie which is likely around the time they did scans. She has a shaven head in real life too.

They gave her shoulders, bulked her delts, gave her biceps. Her face isn't nearly as gaunt as the real actress.

The model is clearly different.

Look at her biceps in the link above. She has shoulders too.

It's like looking at Christian Bale in the machinist and suggesting a Batman scanned model is fake.

 

[Griffon]

It's the one people share suggesting they altered her jawline in the game when they've clearly photoshopped that image instead. They always airbrush photoshoots and whoever did that did a poor visible job too.

Nobody cares if an actress looks or doesn't look like the character (btw she's obviously been bulked up). People just don't like the choice of character and the ideology it represents.

 

[Umbral]

But we have to be able to masturbate All The Time!

This type of argument makes you look silly. You are either being disingenuous or you are incapable of adult conversations.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

 

[jason10mm]

Nobody cares if an actress looks or doesn't look like the character (btw she's obviously been bulked up). People just don't like the choice of character and the ideology it represents.

The key with "bulking up" a woman (which is fine since she seems to be some sort of actiony type) is to then EMPHASIZE the feminine features to balance it. Hence the problem with making her straight bald, devoid of make-up, wearing a shapeless t-shirt, etc. There are plenty of athletic ladies out there (precious few as action stars, alas).

Consider Brittany Daniels (White Chicks)

or Lizzy Broadway (Gen V)

and of course the WWE really understands this

So its VERY clear that if you de-feminize a character to such an extreme that is not only a cultural anomaly but a very deliberate 'message' about the intent of the character. The VO actress herself doesn't go around without at least some make-up and style. So no one would have batten an eye had this character been physically fit but naturally compensating, virtually all women do it themselves. What we see with Intergalactic is intended for a very small circle of social media 'influencers' to serve up some golf claps.

 

[hyperbertha]

another argument).

The strongest argument you could make for this would be a game like Concord. And you know what? I agree. Everyone in that game—men and women—looked awful, and that’s a hero shooter where you need cool characters to play as. The first time I saw Reaper in Overwatch, I needed to play him and cackle evilly while blasting shotguns. The first time I saw Wesker in Marvel vs. Capcom 3, I knew I’d main him on day one(I STILL USE HIM AS MY AVATAR BRING HIM BACK CAPCOM!). But with Concord, there wasn’t a single character I looked at and thought, 'Damn, I’d love to play as that.' That’s a problem.

You just answered your question. Every single game needs cool characters. Not just Concord. There are no exceptions. Men don't wanna play as drug addicts, wierdos, preachy annoying women or fat women. The new Saints row is also a great example.

 

[hyperbertha]

Imagine being this delusional lmao

Anybody who thinks forespokens dialogue is charming shouldn't be given a second of your time.