Monty Mole
Member
Such a clever advert, and I remember the first time I saw it being baffled as to why they were using the Robocop game music. Years later, I thought I must have imagined it, only to Google it and to find out it really did happen
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UK: Charlie Brooker to host "How Video Games Changed The World" 2hr show on Channel 4
- Thread starter axisofweevils
- Start date
dr_octagon
Banned
I don't think the title really reflects what the show was about. And it's not about the best games ever. You could have more but it's not a definitive list and it's about the impact they've had. That will vary depending on who you ask and we'd end up with a completely different list. Some games, however brilliant, don't fit into the approach of the documentary. There's way too much to talk about in 2 hours. You aren't going to please everyone but you need people who aren't clued about about gaming because we get lost in the bubble. The approach you use is important because the danger is that you're too esoteric and the whole idea is not to alienate the wider audience.
The number one choice is more about how games aren't just about having a controller. The element of gaming can appear in social media even if we don't recognise it as a game. Even if you don't agree - considering the previous stuff he's done, it's not a huge surprise to see some social commentary. The mention of The Sims, Truman Show and Big Brother reflect how it's trying to fit games into today's world. It's about how we interact with technology and people for fun which can be characterised as a game.
When it comes to a programme about games, it can be difficult to make it relevant and engaging. People who enjoy games will say 'we already knew this' or it's being dumbed down. Matthew Smith, Peter Molyneux and Koji Kondo aren't figures which will be known to most people. That doesn't diminish their relevance but it makes it difficult to fit them into a documentary which aims to have a wider appeal. It's a big task and Charlie Brooker did a decent job - you could find lots of people who know loads more about games but it's about having a personality, explaining things and keeping you engaged. They tried to keep it relevant by having people who you recognise from the television - so you have non-game people to relate to. We are dealing with something which has transformed into to a multi-billion industry and unlike anything else we've seen. It has been developing with technology and not immediately accessible - even with the success of casual titles. Videogames as a medium remains weird, for all its strengths, and I don't think it's a bad thing to have more discussion. The jam being spread too thinly on the toast - important issues get a passing reference but you can't discuss everything in detail.
We take a lot of the things for granted and it's jargon to other people (eg. side-scrolling, platforming, interactive story teling, hitboxes, shoot 'em up, real time strategy, linear / sandbox gaming). The controller aspect is a physical manifestation of that gap which exists and it's hard to bridge. In addition to that, unlike a book or a film - it may not be easy to pick up and play an older game. It's never the same if you just watch a gameplay video. Competitive gaming is another facet of videogames which you can spend ages talking about. The other problem is the impact has been constant and in the background. There is no 'great game war' as a historical event, even with the controversies, there's nothing everyone would remember as a singular event. The history is interesting but only to those who enjoy games it seems. It could easily be a whole series - it's not a bad start and there will be criticism but at least someone is making an effort to foster positive discussion.
Jon Snow being awesome - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EURtgF7n3ls
The number one choice is more about how games aren't just about having a controller. The element of gaming can appear in social media even if we don't recognise it as a game. Even if you don't agree - considering the previous stuff he's done, it's not a huge surprise to see some social commentary. The mention of The Sims, Truman Show and Big Brother reflect how it's trying to fit games into today's world. It's about how we interact with technology and people for fun which can be characterised as a game.
When it comes to a programme about games, it can be difficult to make it relevant and engaging. People who enjoy games will say 'we already knew this' or it's being dumbed down. Matthew Smith, Peter Molyneux and Koji Kondo aren't figures which will be known to most people. That doesn't diminish their relevance but it makes it difficult to fit them into a documentary which aims to have a wider appeal. It's a big task and Charlie Brooker did a decent job - you could find lots of people who know loads more about games but it's about having a personality, explaining things and keeping you engaged. They tried to keep it relevant by having people who you recognise from the television - so you have non-game people to relate to. We are dealing with something which has transformed into to a multi-billion industry and unlike anything else we've seen. It has been developing with technology and not immediately accessible - even with the success of casual titles. Videogames as a medium remains weird, for all its strengths, and I don't think it's a bad thing to have more discussion. The jam being spread too thinly on the toast - important issues get a passing reference but you can't discuss everything in detail.
We take a lot of the things for granted and it's jargon to other people (eg. side-scrolling, platforming, interactive story teling, hitboxes, shoot 'em up, real time strategy, linear / sandbox gaming). The controller aspect is a physical manifestation of that gap which exists and it's hard to bridge. In addition to that, unlike a book or a film - it may not be easy to pick up and play an older game. It's never the same if you just watch a gameplay video. Competitive gaming is another facet of videogames which you can spend ages talking about. The other problem is the impact has been constant and in the background. There is no 'great game war' as a historical event, even with the controversies, there's nothing everyone would remember as a singular event. The history is interesting but only to those who enjoy games it seems. It could easily be a whole series - it's not a bad start and there will be criticism but at least someone is making an effort to foster positive discussion.
Jon Snow being awesome - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EURtgF7n3ls
It was better than I expected. Not exactly fully catering for us GAF types, but not totally mind numbingly dumbed down either. I mean Shadow of the Colossus being talked about on national TV is a fucking massive achievement no matter what you thought of the show.
The lack of RPG discussion was mighty disturbing though. I can understand the lack of MGS though.
Also what was it he said about Crash Bandicoot in the Mario bit? I didn't hear it properly.
The lack of RPG discussion was mighty disturbing though. I can understand the lack of MGS though.
Also what was it he said about Crash Bandicoot in the Mario bit? I didn't hear it properly.
This was extremely noticeable, but I found it novel to see this cliche format done for our hobby. I thought it fit quite well, perhaps due to having less annoying TV personalities than other list shows.
Flash in the pan
Hot Coldman
Banned
Pretty much everyone interviewed was in games in a big way... well, besides Labrinth and that one DJ. Dara and Graham have evangelised games for years so they get a free pass. So that was cool.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Accurate, but it features Jeff Minter on national TV instead of some wavy haired presenting dipstick so I'm okay with it.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Good show, but was more than a little surprised and disappointed that neither Halo or Resident Evil were mentioned...
Well they didn't really "change" much, as such. Just evolved or augmented ideas which already existed. Remember this wasn't a list of 'influential games'or anything like that: they were just using various games to narrate how "Video Games Changed the World".
I loved the show. Well put together and imo they used the perfect examples to illustrate the points they were trying to make. As always, Brooker delivers on depth and humour.
This.
Seems too many people assumed that because they were listing games that this was some kind of countdown or top 10 list show. It wasn't. Not everything is a competition.
funkystudent
Member
Only catched the end of it. Watching on youtube now.
Did finally watch Indie game the movie after it though. That was a lot less pretentious then I was expecting.
Edit: JEFF MINTER!!!
Double Edit: WHITTA!!!
Gary does sound really american when he is surrounded by British people now. I didnt really notice his american accent until now.
Did finally watch Indie game the movie after it though. That was a lot less pretentious then I was expecting.
Edit: JEFF MINTER!!!
Double Edit: WHITTA!!!
Gary does sound really american when he is surrounded by British people now. I didnt really notice his american accent until now.
tehrik-e-insaaf
Member
Portugeezer
Member
It was okay.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
It was a British show with a run time of 1 hour 38 minutes. There's only so much they can fit in that time. Personally I was happy that they managed to focus on some of the most important and influential titles of the time like Elite, out of interest what ST/Amiga titles would you consider to be just as big?
Street Fighter 2 is a sequel, I'm pretty sure they were cognisant of the fact a Street Fighter must have existed before that. However Street Fighter was a piece of shit where as Street Fighter 2 was the first game that executed on the fighting game concept, that's apparent by the face that the earliest fighter that's still played competitively played today. SF2 was clearly influenced by earlier games but was there were no other fighters that had a bigger affect on the world. The hint's in the title of the show, it wasn't "Which specific games might have influenced other more popular games."
I thought the point was bullshit and flat out ignorant given that equally gratuitous scene had been in films way before the original Mortal Kombat was released. However of course the scene was cherry picked, it severed to highlight the specific point of how violence in games has gone too far and a male slicing a female in two would would be one of the best way to establish it. I honestly don't understand why you'd bring this up when the intention of the clip was overt to begin with.
Outside of a few personal nitpicks like I mentioned with the Mortal Kombat scene I thought the show was just about the best we could hope for from a video game list show on one of the 4 biggest broadcast channels. I feel like your criticising it for things that it isn't intending to be.
Lemmings? Worms? Hell, GTA was originally an Amiga game before that very sad demise (that was my Sega). Though I do agree, there was plenty of respect paid to the UK dev scene.
As an aside, I actually can't play the newest Mortal Kombat, I do legitimately find it gross, to the point that I find it hard to watch/play. It probably was alittle cheap to show a female character getting sliced in half, but you can slice every character in half, so it's not like it doesn't happen... I mean, it's not like I don't want the game to exist, I'd never censor a medium like that, but it's certainly not for me. I have however ordered Injustice for the PS4, whereas I only ever played a demo of Mortal Kombat, so maybe a slightly smaller emphasis on gore could be good for that developer.
Also, I have no issue with calling Twitter a game, I tried it for the first time a few days ago. Trying to fit a conversation into 180 characters is fun and getting my first favourite was kinda neat.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I'd argue the Tetris part covered everything lemmings did in regards to a puzzle game was combined with reactions. Worms is one of my favourite games but what did it inspire beyond its own iterations and Hogs of War? Hogs of War and Armageddon were amazing games but they weren't significant beyond their quality.
Whilst I understand where you're coming from I think you answered your own criticism. I love over the top gore, it's a selling point in movies and game to me because I find the act of it and the way they tie it into the product to be pretty funny. Maybe that makes me psychotic though I've never seriously wanted to hurt anybody in my life, but personally I'd like to see it as something that appeals to different tastes. They've developed Injustice for folks who want nothing to do with that expression and they have MK for those who enjoy it (though I'd note in competitive MK people will skip fatalities in matches to save time, it's always just an option.)
I suppose that's true. Those games were huge to me, but it's hard to see their influence on modern gaming culture beyond more polished versions of things that came before them.
While that makes sense to me logically, the new Mortal Kombat is just so very gross to me. As an avid Amiga...ite I played MK 1 and 2 religiously, but I just can't accept the new Mortal Kombat, even as some sort of parody. I found it offensive. But yes, I know I have to accept it, because there is an audience there, and it's not like it's actually harming anyone, so my opinion doesn't actually matter. I actually wish that was something more adults could come to terms with. And yes, I know it's funny me being a fan of MK1 and having an issue with video game violence, considering the reception of the original. I'm just trying to be honest.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, a lot of things were missed, but for what amounted to a show being broadcast on television on a prime time slot, you can't really complain. It certainly touches on a lot of the highlights anyway.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Pretty disappointing over all. I feel like there were too many talking heads that didn't really add much to the program besides "oh look, a pseudo-celebrity or comedian who plays video games", and not enough coverage or details of the most important people and their contributions.
They barely even mentioned Miyamoto, let alone such luminaries as Gunpei Yokoi, Keiji Inafune, Hideo Kojima, Shinji Mikami, Yuji Hori, Hironobu Sakaguchi, Yu Suzuki, Satoshi Tajiri etc, and focused more attention on the British and indie scene than it deserves given the scope of the subject. They spend several minutes talking about obscure British computer games but don't mention Ultima, or the insane popularity and impact of titles like Pokemon.
It wasn't as funny as Brooker's usual stuff and wasn't anywhere near as informative as it could have been. They didn't even mention the Atari crash which was precipitated by a lack of quality control in the software department (they did cover some of the cheap knock-offs of popular arcade games but completely missed an obvious comparison to the current situation with smartphone games). It really didn't offer anything new to the story and indeed left out very important details in favor of footnotes.
They barely even mentioned Miyamoto, let alone such luminaries as Gunpei Yokoi, Keiji Inafune, Hideo Kojima, Shinji Mikami, Yuji Hori, Hironobu Sakaguchi, Yu Suzuki, Satoshi Tajiri etc, and focused more attention on the British and indie scene than it deserves given the scope of the subject. They spend several minutes talking about obscure British computer games but don't mention Ultima, or the insane popularity and impact of titles like Pokemon.
It wasn't as funny as Brooker's usual stuff and wasn't anywhere near as informative as it could have been. They didn't even mention the Atari crash which was precipitated by a lack of quality control in the software department (they did cover some of the cheap knock-offs of popular arcade games but completely missed an obvious comparison to the current situation with smartphone games). It really didn't offer anything new to the story and indeed left out very important details in favor of footnotes.
ExFalsoQuodlibet
Member
The video's up on youtube, but it's blocked for non-uk viewers: any chance to watch the video for a non-uk fella?
This was a British show, intended for British viewers, aired on a Saturday night. Gunpei Yokoi (no clue, I had to google him) and Pokemon is not going to resonate with that audience the way Manic Miner and Elite does. It would have been great for them to go deeper, or take an International view, but you've got 2 hours and you've got to make it relevant.
It's not like generations British school kids also grew up playing Pokemon on Game boys at the same time as reading Harry Potter. Would have liked a bit more context and less talking heads. We don't need that much time on Pong and Space Invaders again, who doesn't know about them?
A lot of nice bits though. Didn't make the connection between Monkey Island and Pirates of the Carribean before.
And A shame Whitta has to known for After Earth rather than anything else he's done.
Manic Miner and Elite are actually before my time wheras Pokémon was part of my childhood.
They quoted the 18 to 35 age range and yet the games that had an impact on those in the middle, young 20s, seemed mostly ignored. Not surprising when most of the talking heads are older than that so talked about their memories or those of their children. Ohbyeah there was that rapper called Lex Luther's Maze but he was more interested in promoting his career.
Obviously this sbow needed to cut some things out. I mean it would get a bit boring if they kept bringing up Mario because of his multiple influences.
StealthGoblin
Banned
The only one series that I think they should have found time to squeeze in was Pokemon. All of the other series have an analogue or a game that represents them and their kin/storytelling point.
When I think of a game series that has had the most impact on my life and probably the most overall playing time, its Pokemon.
It's everywhere. It rakes in billions. It has a TV show, it has playing cards etc. Its a monster.
I was 10/11 when the craze went mentally big. My class was going on its residential schoo trip (many children's first extended period of being away from their parents). There were 60 of us on a bus. 95% of us were either playing Pokemon on our Gameboys or trading the cards. People spent their spending money on cards when we found a shop that sold them.
When I think of a game series that has had the most impact on my life and probably the most overall playing time, its Pokemon.
It's everywhere. It rakes in billions. It has a TV show, it has playing cards etc. Its a monster.
I was 10/11 when the craze went mentally big. My class was going on its residential schoo trip (many children's first extended period of being away from their parents). There were 60 of us on a bus. 95% of us were either playing Pokemon on our Gameboys or trading the cards. People spent their spending money on cards when we found a shop that sold them.
I thought it was very funny and it was about video games and on the telly for two hours which is a huge novelty so I'll take it. You're never going to make a list show that everyone agrees with and I agree the likes of Pokemon was a strange omission but not a bad list all told and presented in an entertaining way.
I was constantly distracted by how Rab Florence has become one of those ex-fat guys who just looks ill all the time now though.
I was constantly distracted by how Rab Florence has become one of those ex-fat guys who just looks ill all the time now though.
but it do
i had just woke up, clearly it was too soon for me to be making coherent sentences!
Miles Quaritch
Member
I don't know. Halo changed the way FPS were made (two weapon system, a fully fleshed out character in the first person, etc) and Resident Evil ignited the zombie trend that is still going strong almost 20 years later.
These are pretty important game and have had a massive impact on the gaming world and beyond.
some of the slots were wasted on games, that while important, didn't really change the world in the same way those two did...
Anyway, I really enjoyed the show and chuckled when number 1 was revealed, he'd dropped that bomb during the Jon Snow 'interview'
Baleoce
Member
At least the celebrity side were known game enthusiasts like Dara O Briain, and Graham Linehan. Considering the format of the show, we're lucky it wasn't filled with the usual motley crew of speed-dial "experts".
Sounds more Australian to me.
Anyway good program so far, about halfway through watching it.
Da fuck? Everyone who Charlie featured deserved to be there. Who would you have excluded? And define 'proper' gamers. Do you mean just random people off the street who like video games and know a lot about them? What makes them any different from Dara O'Brian, Graham Linehan, Malorie Blackman or Rab Florence? What is a 'proper' gamer?
The Twitter thing was about, like he said, the gameification of real life. Twitter might not seem like a game to you, but some people can view it as such. It has stats, progression, you can role play... whatever. It's not quite how I see or use twitter, but you can surely understand what he was getting at. Or you can't. If so... I dunno. Try to understand things better.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Because literally NO-ONE ELSE gives those games the time of day, that's why. I'd love if, say, Giant Bomb would do a ZX Spectrum livestream or something, but it's not going to happen.
You wouldn't have GTA without shit like Manic Miner and School Daze. They're massively important in the evolution of tone and relevance in video games, as much as stuff like Maniac Mansion and Zork were.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I don't think I need to name specific titles, when I can just point to the output of UK studios like Bullfrog, Psygnosis, and Argonaut on those platforms. Then there are of course American studios like CinemaWare doing pioneering work in interactive storytelling. US stuff is harder to separate out simply because there's a lot of crossover with PC titles, stuff like Dune2, the grandaddy of the modern RTS, is remembered in Europe as an Amiga game, although I believe the PC version preceded it to market in its home country.
I'm sorry but it annoys the hell out of me that this hugely important period is being written out of history thanks to too many people drawing their information not from experience, but from the internet and its overwhelming "American Gaze".
NES may have "saved" the console scene in NA, but it was only a minor success in Europe which remained in thrall to the home computer revolution until the early 90's, when in truth it was Sonic, not Mario, that really delivered the fatal blow.
As a British show, I'd expect to see British gaming culture better represented, especially given the importance of its output through to the the Playstation era, when it started its precipitous decline in global influence.
NowCutThatOut
Member
I think they both had a massive impact on 'nerd culture' but the show was obviously trying to look at things that they thought would resonate more with non-gamers (same as how things like Final Fantasy didn't get a look-in).
I didn't necessarily agree with the narrative they put together but it made sense. The only points that bugged me personally was the way they singlehandedly credited Lucasarts for inventing the point-and-click game, and the very liberal PC interpretation of the new Lara Croft, despite all the awful torture-porn scenes where she gets a pipe rammed through her throat.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
I appreciate that it was made for British viewers, but it's a problem when gamers like you don't even know who Gunpei Yokoi is given the GLOBAL impact he has had on the industry.
I disagree.
I don't really see that as a problem. How is it a problem? How does it affect me or others that they don't know who that guy was? I'm not trolling or anything like that, I genuinely want to know.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
You don't need to know who cured polio, either, but it certainly had an effect on things, didn't it? (note: not saying video games or Yokoi's contributions are equal to curing polio)
How many accents does she have?
I'd tend to agree with him. Without the lineage of British developers working on things like Manic Miner, Batalyx, Populous, Skool Daze, FGTH, Lemmings etc. etc. there wouldn't a distinctly British development scene and there wouldn't be a GTA. Knob gags and innuendo are very British.
It was kind of weird hearing her Northern Irish break into a sort of American'ised tone. It comes from the 'people won't know what the fuck we're saying so we began to talk like this out of habit'-thing I guess. Gary Whitta was sounding half Australian as well.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Hey, at least they brought up the Gameboy.
You can't reel off a list of Japanese names to the audience this was aimed at. Thats too in depth, they didn't have that time. You gave 8 names there, come on. They may be your heroes, they're not everybody elses.
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