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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding

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Listening to the radio at lunchtime, and the mental gymnastics going on from people explaining how they are going to vote is mind boggling.

As far as I could make out, no one is going to vote for the party they want in power, they'll either be voting for the party that supports their Brexit ideals, or voting for the party who is directly opposing the party who's Brexit ideals you don't adhere too.

It's going to be a crazy result.

I often wonder if Jeremy Vine is a good litmus test for political opinions, or should we not listen to those who have the time to phone in to a radio show during working hours?

Some strange ideas on party politics out there though. Almost as if you choose a party for life... No Matter What!
 

axisofweevils

Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
The lib dems are partially to blame for this mess for becoming tory bitches with Clegg's 15 minutes of shame that was the coalition.

True, but considering Labour is currently supporting the Tory hard brexit plan 100%, I find the Lib Dem "They got in bed with the Tories" criticism hard to take seriously now. Now I've seen what unmoderated Tories are like, I can appreciate the influence the LDs had.
 

danowat

Banned
I often wonder if Jeremy Vine is a good litmus test for political opinions, or should we not listen to those who have the time to phone in to a radio show during working hours?

If I had a choice, I wouldn't listen, but it's an office radio, so it's hard to avoid it!
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
True, but considering Labour is currently supporting the Tory hard brexit plan 100%, I find the Lib Dem "They got in bed with the Tories" criticism hard to take seriously now. Now I've seen what unmoderated Tories are like, I can appreciate the influence the LDs had.

What brexit plan?
 

Rodelero

Member
Don't get wrong, yes the area needs investment but it has the feel of insider dealing for personal profit. Also and don't take this the wrong way, but i see voting for MP's like they are a person with an independent opinion as wrong. MP's should only exist to get their party into power. They should only ever reflect their constituents views. E.g. Burger voting to bomb Syria against her party leaders views. I was forced to vote for her as she was the labour MP, i voted for labour not for her. She betrayed my vote. I will not vote for labour via her again.

An MPs job is to represent their constituents best interests, not their views (whatever that even means, given that they represent tens of thousands of people). Evidently most MPs have forgotten that, but that is both the intent and the ideal of our representative democracy. MPs should not blindly do whatever their often ill-informed and selfish constituents think they want on any given day.
 

tomtom94

Member
BBC's article on Corbyn's speech went up 20 minutes ago and already has 2000 comments. How much do you not want to be the poor bugger who has to moderate those?
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
From outside I find it fascinating how much Corbyn tried to not oppose anything Brexit related and helped May get everything she wants only to end up as a saboteur.
 
The libs slept with the enemy and paid the price. They turned their back on their voters for a slight whiff of power, something they knew they would never achieve on their own. Yes Labour are a joke we all knew that, but a joke labour is still better than any Tory.
 
The libs slept with the enemy and paid the price. They turned their back on their voters for a slight whiff of power, something they knew they would never achieve on their own. Yes Labour are a joke we all knew that, but a joke labour is still better than any Tory.

Alright, so if you got a choice between Joe Anderson, a Lib Dem and a Tory - let's say you live in Walton - then who would you vote for?
 
From outside I find it fascinating how much Corbyn tried to not oppose anything Brexit related and helped May get everything she wants only to end up as a saboteur.

The 'saboteurs' are really the LDs and the SNP - it's the Mail that bizarrely added Lineker and Corbyn.
 
From outside I find it fascinating how much Corbyn tried to not oppose anything Brexit related and helped May get everything she wants only to end up as a saboteur.

His spineless approach to Brexit and not opposing anything hasn't helped him at all, it would have been better if he had played the role of saboteur.
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
From outside I find it fascinating how much Corbyn tried to not oppose anything Brexit related and helped May get everything she wants only to end up as a saboteur.

There's no winning move for Labour on brexit. It's no surprise Corbyn is hardly even talking about it.
 
Alright, so if you got a choice between Joe Anderson, a Lib Dem and a Tory - let's say you live in Walton - then who would you vote for?

Oh man you had to ask... the labour guy. I would not like it but as i say i vote party not person.

I think Corbyn's a bit a of tit still going to vote Labour.
 

Hazzuh

Member
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system11

Member
anyone voting lib dem?

honest question

I wanted to.

The party I would vote for this time (Cons) have no chance at all here - they never do. The LD nominee is a very good one with a track record of not being a dick, I've voted for him before.

However, while I like Europe I hate the EU political/economic project, and as such I can't with clear consience vote for a member of a pro-EU party at a time where we're trying to free ourselves from it.

This leaves me in a situation where I have to vote for my least favourite party, and by far the least competant - Labour.

FPTP is such a stupid system.
 
There's no winning move for Labour on brexit. It's no surprise Corbyn is hardly even talking about it.

The worst possible move is not to talk about it at all. If he allies himself with one side or the other definitively then he loses one of his support bases but by not really coming down convincingly on either side, he's lost both of them.


Sure, I might offend a few of the bluenoses with my cocky stride and musky odors - oh, I'll never be the darling of the so-called "City Fathers" who cluck their tongues, stroke their beards, and talk about "What's to be done with this Homer Simpson?"
 
Ditto. I think that goes for most people in the country.

I've never met anyone who enjoys the Jeremy Vine programme, I don't know what he's still doing on the airwaves.

It's funny how divisive he is. I have a friend who produces bits for it, and turns out it's the biggest current affairs show in the UK on the radio. So although R4 Today is heard by more of the people "who matter", you'll get heard as a politician by a lot more voters by going on that.
 
It's funny how divisive he is. I have a friend who produces bits for it, and turns out it's the biggest current affairs show in the UK on the radio. So although R4 Today is heard by more of the people "who matter", you'll get heard as a politician by a lot more voters by going on that.

Same reason more people read tabloids than broadsheets...

edited to be less judgemental
 

Pandy

Member
An MPs job is to represent their constituents best interests, not their views (whatever that even means, given that they represent tens of thousands of people). Evidently most MPs have forgotten that, but that is both the intent and the ideal of our representative democracy. MPs should not blindly do whatever their often ill-informed and selfish constituents think they want on any given day.
By the same token, an MP shouldn't slavishly follow the party line when it runs against the best interests of their constituents.
 

*Splinter

Member
anyone voting lib dem?

honest question
Maybe. Still trying to work out if it's a meaningful anti-Corbyn vote, or if I should stick with Labour as the party that (theoretically?) most closely aligns with my own ideals.

Then again, I'm voting in a safe Tory seat in a safe Tory election, so I don't know why I'm pretending to give a damn.
 

KaoteK

Member
Sign up for postal voting, or authorise a trusted person to proxy vote for you. I did the latter when living in Mexico as the post was unreliable.

Thanks, it'll have to be a proxy vote as Cambodia's post is dodgier than Mexico's (I lived there for a while too)
 

Vagabundo

Member
The junior party in a coalition always gets the blame and none of the credit.

The last two coalition here in Ireland destroyed the Greens and then Labour (before that the Progressive Democrats completely wiped out - although they had managed to survive a few coalitions). Never go into coalition unless you want to be in the dog house for a cycle or two.
 
The junior party in a coalition always gets the blame and none of the credit.

The last two coalition here in Ireland destroyed the Greens and then Labour (before that the Progressive Democrats completely wiped out - although they had managed to survive a few coalitions). Never go into coalition unless you want to be in the dog house for a cycle or two.
Does Ireland often have coalitions? It uses STV after all which is a better voting system.
 
someone just pointed something out to me...

PLEDGE 1. FULL EMPLOYMENT

We will create a million good quality jobs across our regions and nations, and guarantee a decent job for all. By investing £500 billion in infrastructure and industry, backed up by a publicly-owned National Investment Bank and regional banks, we will build a high skilled, high tech, low carbon economy to ensure that no one and no community is left behind.

We will invest in the high speed broadband, energy, transport and homes that our country needs and allow good businesses to thrive, and support a new generation of co-operative enterprises.

We will create a million good quality jobs across our regions and nations, and guarantee a decent job for all. By investing £500 billion in infrastructure and industry...

£500 billion

WTF?

Where is this £500b coming from? That's 20% of GDP, ten times the defence budget and enough cash to run the NHS for 4 1/2 years (apparently - last one isn't mine).

£500 billion!
 

Jackpot

Banned
someone just pointed something out to me...







WTF?

Where is this £500b coming from? That's 20% of GDP, ten times the defence budget and enough cash to run the NHS for 4 1/2 years (apparently - last one isn't mine).

£500 billion!

From last year, it's 250 billion direct spending over 10 years, and is only slightly more than the Tories £483 billion of planned infrastructure projects.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-to-make-britain-more-socialist-a7337651.html

So are Labour really planning to print all that money?

No, which makes Mason's claim a bit odd. In July McDonnell outlined plans to ”mobilise" £500bn in infrastructure spending. He said this would be comprised of £250bn of government capital spending over 10 years and £100bn of state investment in a new publicly owned national investment bank and a new network of regional state-owned banks.

These banks would then borrow from the private capital markets to turn the £100bn of government capital into £250bn of lending to infrastructure projects.

So the government would have to borrow £350bn then?

Not necessarily – or at least not all of it. The £250bn of direct capital spending would be spread over 10 years. So that's £25bn a year, which is actually less than the roughly £80bn of gross public sector investment (£32bn excluding capital depreciation) that the Conservatives are currently forecast to spend in 2019-20.

However, if the state's budget deficit is not zero when Labour implemented this plan and they also tried to capitalise the new national infrastructure bank relatively rapidly then, yes, they would probably have to borrow from the capital markets by issuing new government bonds, or gilts.

So is it a reckless plan, or ”la la land" as the Daily Mail put it?

Not really. The Government's own national infrastructure plan identifies £483bn worth of projects that need investment by 2021, including massive new road, rail, sewage, housing and broadband investments. Many economists – including bodies such as the International Monetary Fund – argue that the UK has under-invested in infrastructure in recent decades.
 

*Splinter

Member
Maybe its a typo.

Would that be more or less embarrassing?

Edit: Never mind, the post above makes it sound less ridiculous.
 
From last year, it's 250 billion direct spending over 10 years, and is only slightly more than the Tories £483 billion of planned infrastructure projects.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-to-make-britain-more-socialist-a7337651.html


I remember this now, thanks. However, is it not £250 billion direct spending over ten years plus £100 billion start up capital for the banks, who will then borrow another £150 billion?

Also is that Tory plan £483 billion of planned works or £483 billion of projects that need doing (which is not the same thing)?

edit: I've read it, it's the first one - although not sure over how long a period by £300b by 2021.

OK, well I retract my sensationalism.
 
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