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[AngryMoth]

I haven't been following election coverage due to it been too depressing since I assumed it would be a crushing victory for the Tories and I'm away travelling at the moment (voted by post don't worry). But I have glimpsed a couple of headlines on Facebook about labour tightening the polls a bit and with this tuition fees pledge is there any chance of it being closer than expected?

 

[Ushojax]

Osborne seems to be saying the Tories will do a u-turn on the dementia tax, it's not very strong leadership from May if they do.

- U-turn on soft/hard Brexit
- U-turn on having this election
- U-turn on self-employed taxes
- U-turn on dementia tax

She's taking strength and stability to new heights. Let's see if Labour can actually put the ball in the open net this time. It shouldn't be hard to convince people that May and her party simply do not give a shit about you.

 

[Ghost]

I haven't been following election coverage due to it been too depressing since I assumed it would be a crushing victory for the Tories and I'm away travelling at the moment (voted by post don't worry). But I have glimpsed a couple of headlines on Facebook about labour tightening the polls a bit and with the this tuition fees pledge is there any chance of it being closer than expected?

Looks like the Torys were happy to burn some of their massive lead to put out a shoddy manifesto that basically lets them do whatever they want in the next 5 years, but there's still not any chance of them losing unfortunately.

I'm sure there's more than a few marginal Tory MPs who had their new London pads all picked out who are pretty pissed off though.

 

[Spuck-uk]

BTW I am calling it now: UKIP and the Greens both get less than 2.5% this election. Lucas will probably hold her seat but I think any Kipper not going to the Tories is going to stay at home. The more the Tories get squeezed, the more Kippers stay at home.

I do slightly feel bad for the Greens, as they are basically a socialist version of the Lib Dems. But it's clear that Corbyn has stolen their thunder and environmentalism is just not a concern this election.

EDIT:

Ba ha ha ha ha

A lot of the Green policies are very very similar to the Labour manifesto, shame they're so godawful stupid on nuclear power.

With a pinch of luck UKIP will effectively vanish after this election to the same shadowy realm as the BNP.

 

[Theonik]

Osborne seems to be saying the Tories will do a u-turn on the dementia tax, it's not very strong leadership from May if they do.

May has so far demonstrated to have the strength and stability of an over-boiled noodle so I wouldn't put it past her but the only way to get to her is to vote labour.

 

[Ghost]

Remember when this election was going to be all about Brexit?

 

[Acorn]

Stable as a possessed see-saw.

 

[PJV3]

- U-turn on soft/hard Brexit
- U-turn on having this election
- U-turn on self-employed taxes
- U-turn on dementia tax

She's taking strength and stability to new heights. Let's see if Labour can actually put the ball in the open net this time. It shouldn't be hard to convince people that May and her party simply do not give a shit about you.

You need the people being willing to see through the government and hold them to account, I still think it's true that governments lose elections, it's not the opposition that win them.

Maybe the dementia tax will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

 

[Gearless]

There's truly no one to vote for in my mind. I'll probably do a more logically vote than a personal one.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Osborne seems to be saying the Tories will do a u-turn on the dementia tax, it's not very strong leadership from May if they do.

Not very strong OR stable.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

It's why I haven't got my hopes up. If it proves too unpopular they'll just ditch it.

 

[Theonik]

There's truly no one to vote for in my mind. I'll probably do a more logically vote than a personal one.

This has always been the reality of voting, especially under FPTP. You must compromise and vote for the one you hate the least or rather more accurately for FPTP vote for the one that will bring the least displeasing outcome for you which might not necessarily even be your most liked or least hated.

 

[*Splinter]

Osborne seems to be saying the Tories will do a u-turn on the dementia tax, it's not very strong leadership from May if they do.

Not very stable either

Whoops there was another page, my bad.

 

[JonathanEx]

So the u-turn is a cap, but an unspecified number, and we shouldn't play politics with this but Jeremy Corbyn will shut down the army. Or something like that seems to be the message.

 

[Ashes]

This has always been the reality of voting, especially under FPTP. You must compromise and vote for the one you hate the least or rather more accurately for FPTP vote for the one that will bring the least displeasing outcome for you which might not necessarily even be your most liked or least hated.

Oh I don't know about that. I'm voting for my local mp cause she represents my views as best as she possibly can. She's not the least worst in my case, she's the best case.*

However, I do also live in one of the most corrupt political areas in the country. Local elections are the worst, local mayor fraud probably the worst ever.

But that's not general election, that's local council elections, local mayor elections.



*Of the given candidates.

 

[hodgy100]

This is all just a trojan horse into privatising part of the UK's healthcare service. its disgusting even with this cap of an undisclosed amount.

 

[Zaph]

Uturn begins. Pathetic really, the one time the Tories displayed a hint of a backbone in addressing a massive problem with our society and they cave under the tiniest pressure.

 

[hodgy100]

Uturn begins. Pathetic really, the one time the Tories displayed a hint of a backbone in addressing a massive problem with our society and they cave under the tiniest pressure.

Their approach to the issue is disgusting though. Essentially making social care privatised for old people is gross and completely opposed to the point in having universal healthcare, punishing people and families for being unlucky enough to get dementia :/

Woah that media question, biting at their strong and stable shit.

 

[Acorn]

I love that May is continuing to prove she would be incredibly beatable by anyone that isn't Corbyn.

May's in a pan with oil, just need someone competent enough to turn up the heat.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Wow...

Tories buy Google ads to stop people reading about controversy over new policy

The Conservatives are buying up Google ads to stop people reading about the controversy around its "dementia tax".

The party has come under huge pressure over its new care plan, which will see older people have to pay for the services they use. The controversial policy has been called a dementia tax, since it means people who need care as they get older will have to pay far more than they did before.

Now the party appears to be attempting to limit that controversy by stopping people reading about it. It is thought it is spending thousands of pounds to keep people from reading about the widespread opposition to the party – and encourage them to click on its own website instead.

Source

 

[Audioboxer]

Nah, you don't get to run away from this. Christianity is fucking shit on Lgbt rights, and it's not just some nutjobs. The Church of England is still having fits about blessing of gay marriage, or gay bishops. The Catholic Church stills considers us as 'intrinsically disordered'. And let's not talk about the evangelical churches in the states.

You don't get to stand there and throw a 'no true scotsman' statement out about Christianity not judging people, because that's *all* the religion has done for many of us. And it's perfectly fair to be suspicious and wary of someone so tightly wrapped up in their religious beliefs when every example we have is of people like that being dangerous and bigoted.

As much as I enjoy taking potshots at religion when it stands in the way of progress, the UK is leaps and bounds better than many places.

I posted this earlier in the thread, but attitudes since the 80s have vastly improved ~ http://www.brin.ac.uk/figures/attitudes-towards-gay-rights/

The trends documented in the long-term survey data presented here are clear and consistent. Across different aspects of the topic of same-sex relations and equal rights, and using different questions from social survey series, there has been a marked liberalisation of opinion amongst Christians (Anglicans, Catholics and other), as well as amongst those with no affiliation. Whereas often large majorities of the religiously-affiliated used to express disapproval of same-sex relations, or disagree with the right of same-sex individuals to be able to adopt children, hold particular occupations or get married, such opinions have steadily decreased over time and more recently these views have been expressed by minorities or less emphatic majorities. On more recent evidence, those with no religion still tend to express lower levels of disapproval than do Christians, as was usually the case in the earlier surveys.

You'll never eradicate bigotry around religion, as the doctrines are riddled with it. That's a fools game if that is anyones ultimate goal. The best thing we can do is keep the government separated from religion, so it's solely a matter for the people, and with the people drag them kicking and screaming towards progress.

Subjecting people to being around the change they fear is the best disinfectant. For many religious minds that have been wired the way they have/indoctrinated, a lot of bigotry is like a phobia. I was rambling on about disgust sensitivity earlier in the thread, and not to do it again, but it comes into play here too (a lot of perceived "disgust" surrounds two men kissing/having sex). However, subjecting someone to exposure to their phobia often mitigates it. So, gay marriage passes, and the population gets exposed to it. What happens over time? Well, people start to realise what happens when gay people get married is... they get married. No lighting bolts from god? Nothing serious changing around them other than people being happier? Well... okay. Sure, it can take years of exposure, and in some cases, many still stay bigoted as fuck behind closed doors. Many do change though, and changing who we can is the best form of success possible for humanity. We will never completely eradicate bigotry, whether its religious or born from other sects/intolerance/cults/etc, but we can marginalise it and important, keep the government separated from the Church(es).

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Win-win! If she wins the policy is no longer insane. And we get to batter her for forcing a u-turn, damaging her entire strong and stable brand!

 

[JonathanEx]

Wow...

Source

Yes but the funny thing is it now means that right under that ad are the news stories saying they've done it, and news stories are more visual on Google, har de har

 

[Ushojax]

Win-win! If she wins the policy is no longer insane. And we get to batter her for forcing a u-turn, damaging her entire strong and stable brand!

If she wins you can look forward to even more brutal policies that will never need to be softened because of an election poll.

 

[axisofweevils]

Wow...






Source

And remember, these people want to control news on the internet....

 

[jm89]

Can't even keep your strong and table bollox going at home, what chance do you have when negotiating the brexit deal?

 

[Ravensmash]

It may be because it's sunny, but I'm feeling more optimistic about there not being a Tory landslide.

 

[axisofweevils]

Can't even keep your strong and table bollox going at home, what chance do you have when negotiating the brexit deal?

I'm now convinced they plan on walking out without a deal.

 

[Chinner]

I can already see tomorrows headlines.

"THERESA MAY IS THE GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE. YOU SAY AND SHE LISTENS!"

"MAY DECIDES WE CAN LIVE. STRONG. AND. STABLE"

 

[Huw_Dawson]

If she wins you can look forward to even more brutal policies that will never need to be softened because of an election poll.

There is plenty more crap we can dig out of her manifesto.

What matters is that she's wobbly. If she u-turns on this, how can we trust her to get a good deal on Brexit?

 

[Xando]

I love that May is continuing to prove she would be incredibly beatable by anyone that isn't Corbyn.

May's in a pan with oil, just need someone competent enough to turn up the heat.

Yeah. She needs to grow a backbone when she starts to negotiate with the EU.

I'm now convinced they plan on walking out without a deal.

If you read the interview with david davis from the sunday times yesterday you can see how he's already setting this up to blame the EU.

 

[PJV3]

I'm now convinced they plan on walking out without a deal.

I don't think they plan anything to be honest, the election coming after starting article 50 hints that way.

 

[Theonik]

Can't even keep your strong and table bollox going at home, what chance do you have when negotiating the brexit deal?

I mean. Let's not forget that the whole reason we are even in this mess is that the Tories are a joke politically and Cameron wanted to save his collapsing party. Theresa Mayjor.

 

[travisbickle]

I love that May is continuing to prove she would be incredibly beatable by anyone that isn't Corbyn.

May's in a pan with oil, just need someone competent enough to turn up the heat.

There's been 2 "anyone that isn't Corbyn" Labour leadership elections and there isn't anyone that isn't Corbyn who is competent enough to get anyone enthused.

 

[SuperEpicMan]

I'm now convinced they plan on walking out without a deal.

Yeah, but no deal is better than a bad deal.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Acorn]

This has been categorically proven false. There's been 2 "anyone that isn't Corbyn" Labour leadership elections and there isn't anyone that isn't Corbyn who is competent enough to get anyone enthused.

The membership isn't the electorate.

 

[Theonik]

The membership isn't the electorate.

I mean that's why the US prefers to do primaries for their Presidential candidates but the UK does not and should not really be aiming at presidential type elections.

In practice of course things are somewhat different.

 

[Breakage]

She seems to change her mind a lot. Remain to Brexit, no early election to GE 2017 and now this...

Even if there's a cap, it'll still be tens of thousands of pounds that'll end up being charged against a person's home.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Very happy to receive my postal vote today. Last time it arrived in Berlin with only a couple of days to get it back to them, I don't know if my vote was even counted. My constituency is Cambridge, a genuinely competitive one. I have read through the Guardian's page on the manifestos here

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-vote-for-the-uk-election-manifestos-compared

and surprisingly I think I will vote for Daniel Zeichner of Labour. Despite Labour and Corbyn's weak stance before the Brexit vote, I find Labour more credible than the Liberal Democrats on most of the big issues, particularly healthcare and taxation.

UKIP don't even run in my area, Conservatives are obviously poison.

 

[zorlaczerohero]

I love that May is continuing to prove she would be incredibly beatable by anyone that isn't Corbyn.

May's in a pan with oil, just need someone competent enough to turn up the heat.

This sort of crap really fucks me off, it's like people want someone who can lie and spin, someone comes along who actually displays a level of morality and people shit on them. No he doesn't get drawn into the shit-fest that is modern western politics, is he to blame or are we to blame for thinking that's a requirement? Policies are all that matter, if you can't see past that then you may as well subscribe to The Sun and vote for the MP with the biggest tits.

 

[Baleoce]

Very happy to receive my postal vote today. Last time it arrived in Berlin with only a couple of days to get it back to them, I don't know if my vote was even counted. My constituency is Cambridge, a genuinely competitive one. I have read through the Guardian's page on the manifestos here

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-vote-for-the-uk-election-manifestos-compared

and surprisingly I think I will vote for Daniel Zeichner of Labour. Despite Labour and Corbyn's weak stance before the Brexit vote, I find Labour more credible than the Liberal Democrats on most of the big issues, particularly healthcare and taxation.

UKIP don't even run in my area, Conservatives are obviously poison.

My constituency is North Herefordshire. So it's a two horse race between Conservatives and Lib Dems. I'll be going with the latter as a tactical vote.

 

[travisbickle]

The membership isn't the electorate.

The PLP can't even put anyone forward who's more competent.

Yeah if you mean someone more competent out of everyone, Obama could beat May, but name someone in the party who could?

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

This sort of crap really fucks me off, it's like people want someone who can lie and spin, someone comes along who actually displays a level of morality and people shit on them. No he doesn't get drawn into the shit-fest that is modern western politics, is he to blame or are we to blame for thinking that's a requirement? Policies are all that matter, if you can't see past that then you may as well subscribe to The Sun and vote for the MP with the biggest tits.

Knowing my luck they would be tory too.

 

[Zaph]

I'm now convinced they plan on walking out without a deal.

Absolutely. They're the typical school bully - want to tell everyone how big and strong they are, while hoping nobody calls their bluff. Entering EU negotiations in good faith would expose not only how weak their position is, but just how fractured they are internally with regards to deal priorities.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Very happy to receive my postal vote today. Last time it arrived in Berlin with only a couple of days to get it back to them, I don't know if my vote was even counted. My constituency is Cambridge, a genuinely competitive one. I have read through the Guardian's page on the manifestos here. (...)

What sort of things are making you lean Labour?

Not going to try and convince you to switch, just curious. It's going to be an insanely close run between our man and Labour.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

My constituency is North Herefordshire. So it's a two horse race between Conservatives and Lib Dems. I'll be going with the latter as a tactical vote.

I would absolutely vote tactically if I were in a critical race between the Tories/UKIP and another party. I happen to be in the fortunate position of being in a contested seat between quite good candidates.

What sort of things are making you lean Labour?

I voted for Julian Huppert in 2010, and I think his voting record is fine. However I wasn't happy that the Liberal Democrats entered a coalition with the Conservatives, I felt like my vote enabled some truly awful stuff to happen, and would much rather have had a hung parliament.

I like that Labour want to increase taxes on the rich, and their environmental and foreign affairs policies seem vastly improved. Although Corbyn was awful on Brexit, trying to stop it is a complete no go, and another referendum is a terrible idea.

Not going to try and convince you to switch, just curious. It's going to be an insanely close run between our man and Labour.

I'm very happy to be convinced otherwise, my mind isn't made up yet, and I appreciate informed and passionate arguments.

 

[Coriolanus]

I have heard this which is why I'm stating it as my biggest wtf. Even in debates, when I'm on the pro-choice side, I hear people talk about terminating pregnancies like it was nothing at all.

On the flipside, there are those who don't want to consider forced abortions manslaughter e.g. where the male partner fed the pregnant mother-to-be abortion pills [without her knowledge or consent.].

There are lots of grey areas.

Ahm...that makes perfect sense?
You can only have manslaughter if the thing killed is a person, and it's usually considered that it cant be a premeditated killing. Thus, if you consider the fetus a person, it would be murder. If you do not consider the fetus a person, then it would be...hm... bodily harm inflicted upon the person carrying the fetus.

Either way cant see how the stealth feeding of abortion pills (and, if memory serves, one has to be placed inside the vagina) could be considered manslaughter.

 

[Breakage]

May announced a cap without saying what the cap will be.

 

[JonathanEx]

May announced a cap without saying what the cap will be.

I like how she's calling it fake news that this is a u-turn, just clarifying.

Clarifying a detail that wasn't in the manifesto or briefings until today hmmmmmm a liar story- SORRY typo, a likely story.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

This sort of crap really fucks me off, it's like people want someone who can lie and spin, someone comes along who actually displays a level of morality and people shit on them. No he doesn't get drawn into the shit-fest that is modern western politics, is he to blame or are we to blame for thinking that's a requirement? Policies are all that matter, if you can't see past that then you may as well subscribe to The Sun and vote for the MP with the biggest tits.

Well said.

I haven't agreed with everything Corbyn has said or done but this is the most progressive platform I can remember seeing in this country since I have been alive (only 32) and yet due to all the Conservative biased media we have a general population who think Corbyn is our version of Trump.

It's scary how similar we are to America, a whole bunch of people who vote against their best interests and against results in favour of making Britain great again. Fucking disgusting how our media controls the narrative in this country and equally disappointing how many fall for it.