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[Fernando Fernandez]

Not really. A small group of MPS plotting to remove their leader - how shocking.

It's only literally been the case for every party for literally the last 40 years. After all, Jeremy Corbyn backed leadership challenges against part leaders in the past as well.

I know it sounds arrogant, but it still seems to me like a lot of people's outrage or understanding of this is because they haven't been following politics much. Particularly when people don't seem to understand that when you lose a vote of no confidence as a leader you simply have to go - the party is bigger than the man. It's unthinkable that anyone would stay on after that happened, hence everyones confusion right now - Jeremy is literally destroying the Labour Party for his own ego, and his follows don't give a shit because they aren't Labour Party supporters they are Jeremy Cobryn supporters.

The reason votes of no confidence aren't binding is because when they wrote the rules no-one ever thought someone would be so insane as to ignore a vote.

You're correct, it does sound a bit arrogant haha. Although I will say your posts in here have been the most informative. I thought it was an interesting time line of what's been happening with the plotting happening the minute after his election.

 

[Yangshouwen]

I believe in Jeremy Corbyn.

He is proper Labour & one of the last remaining genuine politicians left in the game.

 

[jakonovski]

Man by the end of this Labour will be further right than the Tories.

 

[Maledict]

You're correct, it does sound a bit arrogant haha. Although I will say your posts in here have been the most informative. I thought it was an interesting time line of what's been happening with the plotting happening the minute after his election.

Sorry! Frustration gets the better of me sometimes, so apologies for being arrogant.

And yes, I have absolutely no doubt a small group of MPS has been plotting against him since day 1. Here's the thing though - that would have been the case whoever won. Had Liz Kendall won then it would have been Corbyn and McDonnel plotting against her. It's the nature of party politics.

The thing that's different here is the scale of the events. This has gone well beyond a small group of people, and no coup can involve basically the entirety of the PLP. MPS and elected officials from all sides of the party are honestly beyond furious right now at him and those who surround him, for what happened in the referendum and everything since.

The other thing to bear in mind, and one of the reasons this is happening, is because many Labour MPS are pro-Europe. Corbyn and McDonnel are not - they have already said they will Brexit, and very clearly (hell they seem to be looking forward to it. If Labour want a leader who will fight against us leaving Europe, they have to get rid of Corbyn. That's one of the reasons so many Labour MPS are now rebelling - they don't want to leave Europe.

I think it's a good question for Corbyn supporters to ask themselves - if you want a Labour Party that fights to stay in Europe, we have to lose Corbyn as leader.

 

[Maledict]

I believe in Jeremy Corbyn.

He is proper Labour & one of the last remaining genuine politicians left in the game.

You mean apart from deliberately undermine the entire Labour Party platform and campaign on remaining in Europe? ;-)

Not entirely sure how genuine that is.

Oh, and he chose Seamus Milnes as his comms director. No-one genuine would ever chose such an atrocious man to do your comms - he apologized for *stalin* for goodness sakes.

 

[Madouu]

I think it's a good question for Corbyn supporters to ask themselves - if you want a Labour Party that fights to stay in Europe, we have to lose Corbyn as leader.

Has any Labour leader clearly stated that he would fight to remain in Europe following the Brexit vote?

 

[Maledict]

Has any Labour leader clearly stated that he would fight to remain in Europe following the Brexit vote?

David Lammy has.

Right now though the only thing we do know is the current Leadership will Brexit. Hell, part of me worries they are more likely to than Theresa May. After all, they've been saying this and voting this way for over 40 years...

 

[CyclopsRock]

Man by the end of this Labour will be further right than the Tories.

Why?

 

[Massingberd]

Why?

In the absence of any sensible or logical response to that, let's just say "Blair". That usually works doesn't it?

 

[jakonovski]

Why?

Corbyn personifies the left wing. Enough resentment and whoever ends up dethroning him might just eradicate all leftist policies just because it's what Corbyn stood for.

I exaggerate of course, but Labour already thinks it can't win except by moving rightwards.

 

[War Peaceman]

Labour's best hope is to push for those Remain voters. Therefore Corbyn has to go (there are many other valid reasons for that conclusion too)

 

[jakonovski]

Now there's a question for you: what have the Labour rebels said about Brexit? All I've heard is tired old crap about Stalinists and gotchas about Israel vs. ISIS, which while interesting to some, is not really on point at all.

 

[British Monsoon]

The way the media and his own party have acted towards Corbyn is shameful, zero chance any of these sacks of shit get my vote once they figure out how to actually get rid of him. Would be nice to have someone in the running who remotely represents my views, but most of labour seem so deathly afraid of veering any degree to the left I doubt that will happen.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

You mean apart from deliberately undermine the entire Labour Party platform and campaign on remaining in Europe? ;-)

Not entirely sure how genuine that is.

Oh, and he chose Seamus Milnes as his comms director. No-one genuine would ever chose such an atrocious man to do your comms - he apologized for *stalin* for goodness sakes.

One of the lasting memories of the past week is "Seamus, I'm not sure this is a good idea" that quote won't go away in a hurry!

Being on social media, there's so much Pro-Corbyn voices out there it does somewhat eclipse for me the fact that as you say, he has lost the support of the elected members of his party. Sadly, I'm coming to terms that to a working opposition is needed more than the 200k voters who voted for him (me included). Especially with the growing Kippers vote and the thought of May as Prime Minister til 2025.

 

[Morat]

Now there's a question for you: what have the Labour rebels said about Brexit? All I've heard is tired old crap about Stalinists and gotchas about Israel vs. ISIS, which while interesting to some, is not really on point at all.

This is kind of the point. The only thing they seem to have in common is a desire to get rid of Corbyn, and they have presented no coherent position on anything else, let alone brexit.

 

[Maledict]

One of the lasting memories of the past week is "Seamus, I'm not sure this is a good idea" that quote won't go away in a hurry!

Being on social media, there's so much Pro-Corbyn voices out there it does somewhat eclipse for me the fact that as you say, he has lost the support of the elected members of his party. Sadly, I'm coming to terms that to a working opposition is needed more than the 200k voters who voted for him (me included). Especially with the growing Kippers vote and the thought of May as Prime Minister til 2025.

That picture still makes me laugh... ;-). Seamus Milne is an awful person, and I don't know what Corbyn was thinking of when he chose him. Guaranteed to piss people off and cause issues. I also have a thing about people from extremely privileged backgrounds telling someone like me from a very working class family what counts as left wing politics and who is best for the working class.

And yes, ultimately this is the reason they want rid of Corbyn. You can't win an election off our activist base - whilst they are hugely important, and need to be part of the conversation and party platform, they aren't all of it and right now everything we hear from Labour MPs visiting voters (and polls) shows that Labour Party voters really, really don't like Corbyn.

 

[Maledict]

Heh, turns out there is a politician other than Tim Farron who is out there talking about the 48% and the need to represent them. Tony Blair.

In one way not surprising, but it reminds me that he did have a good political antenna.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Get him back. The return of the king.

 

[jelly]

I don't understand why he still has supporters, what do they get out him being a non leader who will never win. Is there some fear a new leader will smash unions or something?

 

[JonathanEx]

I don't understand why he still has supporters, what do they get out him being a non leader who will never win. Is there some fear a new leader will smash unions or something?

Because it's not about him, but what he represents apparently.

Which leads to an odd paradox where you can't criticise or get rid of him as that might undermine his ability to put those views across. If there's anyone else they won't have his views and you can't trust anyone else to be left wing.

Or something.

 

[Cromat]

Corbyn personifies the left wing. Enough resentment and whoever ends up dethroning him might just eradicate all leftist policies just because it's what Corbyn stood for.

I exaggerate of course, but Labour already thinks it can't win except by moving rightwards.

I don't think dogmatic Marxism is the only true form of left-wing politics.

 

[ultratruman]

Corbyn personifies the left wing.

Nah

 

[Toytown Assassin]

I don't understand why he still has supporters, what do they get out him being a non leader who will never win. Is there some fear a new leader will smash unions or something?

It's about taking over the entire labour party for the hard left. They need Corbyn or one of his fellow travelers to stay in place until they have taken control of all of the levers of power and deselected any difficult mps which ATM is around 80% of them. Then they just wait to win as in theory sooner or later the party will win no matter who runs it because people will get sick of the tories.

 

[Goodlife]

I don't understand why he still has supporters, what do they get out him being a non leader who will never win. Is there some fear a new leader will smash unions or something?

Because nobody else in the Labour party with "leadership ambitions" is even trying to give the same message as him.

For me it's not about Corbyn. He's old, has a lot of baggage and is, let's be fair, a pretty crap public speaker.

But his views and his attitude (when speaking about visiting his constituents he said "I love meeting people, as everyone I meet knows something I don't"
Is spot on, IMHO.

His thoughtfulness when he answers questions, the fact he doesn't look too give sound bites, but will say most situations aren't black and white is a massive refreshing change to politics.

 

[Baybars]

Now there's a question for you: what have the Labour rebels said about Brexit? All I've heard is tired old crap about Stalinists and gotchas about Israel vs. ISIS, which while interesting to some, is not really on point at all.

When the leader of the party refuses to support and defend his MP while a looney from momentum attacks her in front of him, then you know he ain't a leader.

Corbyn is a worthless man who seems more at home at protesting and burning bridges rather than leading anything. When most of the folks who work with you refuse to respect you then the problem is not them. The problem is you.

In football, corbyn would have been sacked right away for losing the respect and confidence of his players.

 

[Goodlife]

When the leader of the party refuses to support and defend his MP while a looney from momentum attacks her in front of him, then you know he ain't a leader.

Corbyn is a worthless man who seems more at home at protesting and burning bridges rather than leading anything. When most of the folks who work with you refuse to respect you then the problem is not them. The problem is you.

In football, corbyn would have been sacked right away for losing the respect and confidence of his players.

Someone else who doesn't understand how the Labour party is set up

 

[Pandy]

This is kind of the point. The only thing they seem to have in common is a desire to get rid of Corbyn, and they have presented no coherent position on anything else, let alone brexit.

This. Corbyn is merely a symptom of the party's problems, not the cause.

 

[Ushojax]

Because nobody else in the Labour party with "leadership ambitions" is even trying to give the same message as him.

For me it's not about Corbyn. He's old, has a lot of baggage and is, let's be fair, a pretty crap public speaker.

But his views and his attitude (when speaking about visiting his constituents he said "I love meeting people, as everyone I meet knows something I don't"
Is spot on, IMHO.

His thoughtfulness when he answers questions, the fact he doesn't look too give sound bites, but will say most situations aren't black and white is a massive refreshing change to politics.

Doesn't look to give sound bites? That's all he's does. I haven't seen one fleshed out policy proposal from him, just the same old platitudes about social inequality and the dangers of austerity. Where are the policies? Where is the substance? He was elected leader but he's behaving exactly the same way he did when he was a backbencher, his politics hasn't changed in 50 years. The man simply isn't cut out to lead a serious challenge to the Tories.

 

[Maledict]

It's about taking over the entire labour party for the hard left. They need Corbyn or one of his fellow travelers to stay in place until they have taken control of all of the levers of power and deselected any difficult mps which ATM is around 80% of them. Then they just wait to win as in theory sooner or later the party will win no matter who runs it because people will get sick of the tories.

You would think the 80s and 90s would have taught them the lesson that this doesn't work. People will not vote for that type of platform, no matter what. But then again, if corbyn hasn't changed a single thought in 40 years why would we expect the hard left to?

I really can't believe we are in 2016 and still facing the issues with entry-ism into the labour party. And it's so sad to see the same fuckers who were behind it in the 80s using younger voters to push the ideologue crap. The fact they think the only way for them to win is to subvert another party, because their own party can't ever win, is telling.

 

[hodgy100]

Please get out here with this reductionist shit. I think people are willing to vote for another leaver other than corbyn because he does have multiple areas he can improve on. But the plp just aren't floating anyone that is any better in my opinion. Also I'm not hijacking a party I joined one that presented a type of politician that has done a better job of representing my views than most in the past. I'm a floating voter and have voted for multiple different parties. I just feel a need for the left to unite instead of being split like it currently is so I became a labour member. And if the plp can't float up anyone that I feel is better than corbyn I will vote corbyn again.

 

[Maledict]

The PLP haven't 'put someone up' because they would rather have a proper leadership contest with multiple people running rather than turn it into the PLP versus the socialist worker party and activist base. Hence wanting him to resign - it would make it far better for everyone. I mean, even if Jeremy wins a leadership contest he can't actually run the party at this stage nor form an actual cabinet.

And at the moment we have a leader of the Labour Party who, after the biggest political event of our lifetime stood in parliament square and:

1) gave a speech that didn't mention Europe, and just ran over his usual sound bite lines
2) was happy to stand and talk to a crowd which called for the ousting of Labour MPS and violence towards them
3) would rather talk to a crowd of the socialist worker party than his own damn party MPS.

He won't meet one on one wth his own deputy ffs. This is not someone who can lead a party never mind run the country.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Corbyn personifies the left wing. Enough resentment and whoever ends up dethroning him might just eradicate all leftist policies just because it's what Corbyn stood for.

I exaggerate of course, but Labour already thinks it can't win except by moving rightwards.

This is nonsense. Corbyn does not personify the Left in Labour. He personifies a battle that was fought and lost in the 80s, a one totally out of kilter with the rest of Labour party history. A one that was always pushing for democratic centralism rather than the realities of representative democracy.

The 172 PLP members who have called for him to go are a mix of every single element of the party, and there are many on the left (including myself) who do not believe he will ever be able to help anybody except the people in the party who follow him.

 

[hohoXD123]

When the leader of the party refuses to support and defend his MP while a looney from momentum attacks her in front of him, then you know he ain't a leader.

Corbyn is a worthless man who seems more at home at protesting and burning bridges rather than leading anything. When most of the folks who work with you refuse to respect you then the problem is not them. The problem is you.

In football, corbyn would have been sacked right away for losing the respect and confidence of his players.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-activist-who-berated-mp-ruth-smeeth-says-he-did-not-know-she-was-jewish-and-denies-momentum-a7111366.html

Corbyn didn't lose the respect of his MPs, they didn't respect him from the start, looking for any excuse to mount a coup.

 

[RedShift]

If Corbyn does resign will McDonnell be likely to wrangle enough MPs to make his own bid for the leadership?

 

[Red Liquorice]

I believe in Jeremy Corbyn.

He is proper Labour & one of the last remaining genuine politicians left in the game.

Which is why the rest of them hate him.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

If Corbyn does resign will McDonnell be likely to wrangle enough MPs to make his own bid for the leadership?

Not a chance. The momentum praetorian guard will pass to someone younger like Clive Lewis, which would be far better.

The best that can happen now is that Corbyn's good stuff: the anti-austerity direction, disappeared ideas like the National Education Service and better representation for the unions can be implemented by an electable figure untainted by incompetence and fraternising with terrorists and rogue states.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Which is why the rest of them hate him.

Perhaps, though this doesn't stop him being anathema to the voting public, and as such the possible overseer of the destruction of the Labour party as a parliamentary force.

 

[ultratruman]

Corbyn didn't lose the respect of his MPs, they didn't respect him from the start, looking for any excuse to mount a coup.

Can I just ask: do you consider, for example, Thomas Piketty to be in this personally vindictive Blairite camp? How about Neil Kinnock? The Scottish Labour Party?

 

[Massingberd]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-activist-who-berated-mp-ruth-smeeth-says-he-did-not-know-she-was-jewish-and-denies-momentum-a7111366.html

Corbyn didn't lose the respect of his MPs, they didn't respect him from the start, looking for any excuse to mount a coup.

Yeah, they didn't think a man with a ton of negative baggage, and a viewpoint far to the left of the majority of the party would be seen as particularly electable.

 

[Kuros]

If Corbyn does resign will McDonnell be likely to wrangle enough MPs to make his own bid for the leadership?

No chance. If Corbyn can't get the 50 if it comes to that McDonnell would get less.

Other option would be Abbott. And no one wants that.

 

[JonathanEx]

No chance. If Corbyn can't get the 50 if it comes to that McDonnell would get less.

I suspect McDonnell would be disliked even more by the PLP.

 

[Kuros]

I suspect McDonnell would be disliked even more by the PLP.

Absolutely. He also has a whole raft of IRA quotes which would be dredged up.

 

[Maledict]

I suspect McDonnell would be disliked even more by the PLP.

Yep, he's *loathed* by the PLP. Far more than Corbyn. The fact he was chosen as chancellor was one of the things that really pissed off people - because you don't chose John McDonnell as your chancellor if you want to make peace with the party.

There's a quote from someone who used to be in government from early on where they said Corbyn used to frustrate them but he did out of his beliefs, whereas McDonnel used to piss people off just because he could.

 

[JonathanEx]

Latest seems to be:

Tom Watson told PLP he's meeting trade union leaders tomorrow over Corbyn as "a last throw of the dice".

Labour leadership challenge will follow unless unions turn against Corbyn tomorrow. Tom Watson clear at PLP.

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton

Right around Chilcot, this will be bloody.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The thing is, Corbyn would probably beat Eagle. He'd struggle against Jarvis or Starmer or Smith or whatnot, but Eagle is not particularly blessed in the popular appeal department. I hope Corbyn stands down.

 

[Pandy]

You missed the other big news:

Spoiler

A news programme used the wrong titles.

EDIT: Source the 'Eagle'-eyed - https://twitter.com/Norbertswizzle

 

[Mr. Sam]

Latest seems to be:


https://twitter.com/georgeeaton

Right around Chilcot, this will be bloody.

Talk about political chicken, and neither's going to blink! This is a disaster.

 

[RedShift]

Angela Eagle to announce Labour leadership bid on Monday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753769

Looks like it's happening.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Angela Eagle to announce Labour leadership bid on Monday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753769

Looks like it's happening.

She seems way less electable than Corbyn just judging her on performance.

 

[emigre]

Angela Eagle to announce Labour leadership bid on Monday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753769

Looks like it's happening.

And it only took two weeks! Labour can't plot it's way out of a paper bag.