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[DSWii60]

Eh your talking about just this election, the oldest party that we have left is Conservatives that formed in 1612 - remember labour was only formed inthe early 20th century and the Liberal Democrats were the group that founded based on the old Liberal party and the Socialist Democrat Party in the late 1980s.

So we have had Conservative governments, parties, ideologies from 1612. While we had Liberalism from 1859. Hmm.

Joke post?

This isn't 1612 or 1859. It's 2010.

 

[Linkified]

Typical Tory, you honestly only care about a tax break for games companies?

Yes...

I know all 3 parties will fuck the NHS over, the education system isn't applicable to me and my mums retiring at the end of the next year. So I would like them to double the wage of all teachers as they have to put up with alot of BS. Yes tougher crime would be nice but no one will be able to sort out the mess of the criminal justice system in this country without probably breaking European law, we have a teriible trade defficit because of EU being protectionist on countries within the barrier and not allowing free trade with African, Middle Easten and Asian countries without them first paying the 2% first.

The only thing they could guarantee me is the tax breaks on tech businesses and game studios.

 

[Linkified]

Joke post?

This isn't 1612 or 1859. It's 2010.

The post was in direct response stating our ideology isn't conservative i.e. the right and was pointing out the conservative party has been around the longest plus all the parties scramble for the left of right spot.

 

[Empty]

ComRes poll tonight (Fieldwork 18-19 Apr)

CON 35%(+3)
LAB 26%(-2),
LDEM 26%(-2)

weird. probably an anomaly given that the other polls released from the same fieldwork period are so different, showing a much closer election, yet also consistent with eachother.

 

[Linkified]

ComRes poll tonight (Fieldwork 18-19 Apr)

CON 35%(+3)
LAB 26%(-2),
LDEM 26%(-2)

weird. probably an anomaly given that the other polls released from the same fieldwork period are so different, showing a much closer election, yet also consistent with eachother.

Thats nice to see.

 

[Reno7728]

but it is worth noting that ComRes’s fieldwork was done on Sunday and Monday, so this poll is actually a day older than the Angus Reid, Populus and YouGov data we’ve seen so far this morning. On that basis, I suspect this is just an outlier – if the Liberal Democrat bubble really had burst, we’d have expected to see evidence of it in the other three polls tonight.

Seems like an anomaly to me :shrug:

 

[DECK'ARD]

Brown admits defeat:

Who on Earth is advising these people?

The only 2 effects of this would be to get people who want rid of Brown to vote Tory instead of Lib Dems, OR Labour supporters to hop on the Lib Dem bandwagon if it continues as it's got the approval of Gordon Brown.

Utterly retarded move by him.

 

[DSWii60]

The post was in direct response stating our ideology isn't conservative i.e. the right and was pointing out the conservative party has been around the longest plus all the parties scramble for the left of right spot.

You weren't joking... Something being around for the longest doesn't make it the majority ideology.

This is a liberal country as shown by avaya demonstrating in his post that over 70% of the votes go to progressive parties. Even our conservative party is generally socially liberal with liberal policies on e.g. abortion, gay rights etc.

Economic policy of the major parties at the moment may be quite similar (slightly to the right of centre on the traditional scale) however again all the parties support a progressive tax system to some extent which are certainly not standard conservative policies.

 

[Wes]

Bizarre play by Labour. I'd at least see how the second debate and the following weekend played out first.

 

[Linkified]

You weren't joking... Something being around for the longest doesn't make it the majority ideology.

This is a liberal country as shown by avaya demonstrating in his post that over 70% of the votes go to progressive parties. Even our conservative party is generally socially liberal with liberal policies on e.g. abortion, gay rights etc.

Economic policy of the major parties at the moment may be quite similar (slightly to the right of centre on the traditional scale) however again all the parties support a progressive tax system to some extent which are certainly not standard conservative policies.

I don't really care anymore at the end of the day which politicians can we trust no one cause they are all lieing, cheating career politicians.

 

[wave dial]

Yes...

I know all 3 parties will fuck the NHS over, the education system isn't applicable to me and my mums retiring at the end of the next year. So I would like them to double the wage of all teachers as they have to put up with alot of BS. Yes tougher crime would be nice but no one will be able to sort out the mess of the criminal justice system in this country without probably breaking European law, we have a teriible trade defficit because of EU being protectionist on countries within the barrier and not allowing free trade with African, Middle Easten and Asian countries without them first paying the 2% first.

The only thing they could guarantee me is the tax breaks on tech businesses and game studios.

Why game studios?

 

[DSWii60]

I don't really care anymore at the end of the day which politicians can we trust no one cause they are all lieing, cheating career politicians.

Oh I completely agree with you there. That's why there needs to be a fundamental shake-up of politics as we know it (alternating Labour and Tory governments) and the Lib Dems, though nowhere near perfect, are the only option we have for real change through electoral reform and through the dismantling of the two-party domination that we've had for too long.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Nick Clegg lays the smack down on Gordon Brown:

2208: Hmm, it sounds like Gordon Brown might get short-shrift if he tries to form any sort of personal alliance with Nick Clegg. The Lib Dem leader tells Wednesday's Daily Telegraph that Mr Brown is "a desperate politician". He says the PM "systematically blocked, and personally blocked, reform" - and on his promises of change now, adds: "I just do not believe him."

Brown is sounding like the gf who was dumped, "I know you don't love me anymore, but let's still be friends!"

 

[dschalter]

You weren't joking... Something being around for the longest doesn't make it the majority ideology.

This is a liberal country as shown by avaya demonstrating in his post that over 70% of the votes go to progressive parties. Even our conservative party is generally socially liberal with liberal policies on e.g. abortion, gay rights etc.

Economic policy of the major parties at the moment may be quite similar (slightly to the right of centre on the traditional scale) however again all the parties support a progressive tax system to some extent which are certainly not standard conservative policies.

The Lib Dems are not a progressive party. They are a moderate party that throws in some 'liberal' policies because there are a large number of disgruntled Labour supporters.

 

[Linkified]

Why game studios?

Becuase they need tax breaks to compete with game studios in canada, etc. We need to protect that market of the UK so they can hire more people so filter money around the economy. The parties have said they would do it but who knows, I hope they do even though it wasn't mentioned in their manifestos.

 

[Empty]

they are all lieing, cheating career politicians.

This is very unfair. There are many inept MP's, many who sit idly in safe seats, many who actively work against the interests of their constituents, that is true. However there are also plenty in parliament who have given up careers that would pay more, lead to less stress and less public scrutiny, in order to work for the country, to bring about positive change, and to have done so with little credit; to tar them with the same brush just because of the expenses scandals and the strengths of the party machines is uncalled for.

 

[Linkified]

Oh I completely agree with you there. That's why there needs to be a fundamental shake-up of politics as we know it (alternating Labour and Tory governments) and the Lib Dems, though nowhere near perfect, are the only option we have for real change through electoral reform and through the dismantling of the two-party domination that we've had for too long.

I would like it if we had the option on the Ballot paper to have a 'no vote' option.

 

[Wes]

Paxman attacking the Transport Minister over the wrong things. Criticise the bringing back of the stranded tourists sure, they messed that up, but not that they followed international guidelines about not flying when the scenario first appeared late last week.

 

[Wes]

Subliminal messaging by the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury?

 

[wave dial]

Becuase they need tax breaks to compete with game studios in canada, etc. We need to protect that market of the UK so they can hire more people so filter money around the economy. The parties have said they would do it but who knows, I hope they do even though it wasn't mentioned in their manifestos.

But plenty of studios in places like Japan, US, and South Korea prosper without any additional tax breaks. Spending taxpayer money on a studio won't necessarily make the best product--look at the Silicon Knights thread on the gaming side.

 

[Mr. Sam]

I would like it if we had the option on the Ballot paper to have a 'no vote' option.

Could just not vote. This isn't Australia.

 

[Linkified]

But plenty of studios in places like Japan, US, and South Korea prosper without any additional tax breaks. Spending taxpayer money on a studio won't necessarily make the best product--look at the Silicon Knights thread on the gaming side.

Wha-------?

No, tax breaks i.e. those studios paying less tax - not the government giving studios money.

Could just not vote. This isn't Australia.

I want to vote but no one represents me in my constituency though.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Why game studios?

Growing industry, with big spending young professionals who cause few social problems. What community wouldn't want more computer games companies?

 

[wave dial]

Wha-------?

No, tax breaks i.e. those studios paying less tax - not the government giving studios money.

In the case of SK, it was funding from the government.

 

[Dabookerman]

Growing industry, with big spending young professionals who cause few social problems. What community wouldn't want more computer games companies?

Tax relief in the games industry means more jobs in this country and means I don't need to look for a needle in a haystack -_-

 

[wave dial]

Other countries don't necessarily have to do that. Is the UK's gaming industry that sad that they need special attention?

 

[ghst]

Becuase they need tax breaks to compete with game studios in canada, etc. We need to protect that market of the UK so they can hire more people so filter money around the economy. The parties have said they would do it but who knows, I hope they do even though it wasn't mentioned in their manifestos.

like this one? http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/03/24/budget-win-tax-break-for-uk-developers/

as a single issue voter, i guess you're gonna be labour's champion from now on.

 

[Dark Machine]

Wha-------?

No, tax breaks i.e. those studios paying less tax - not the government giving studios money.



I want to vote but no one represents me in my constituency though.

Also Tax Breaks are giving the studio money, because they don't have to pay tax they WOULD otherwise have to pay. That's why it's called a Tax Break

 

[Dark Machine]

Tax relief in the games industry means more jobs in this country and means I don't need to look for a needle in a haystack -_-

Yeah man, I love the idea of Tax Breaks for game studios here too, I honestly do because it would see better more staff and such, but the same is true of nearly all businesses and areas. The problem right now is the billions of debt we're in.

So (playing politics a little) would you like to cost your Tax Break policy Mr.Bookerman?

You can google the budget and other figures for the state if you'd like, it'd be interesting to see. Challenge also extends to Linkified too.

 

[Linkified]

like this one? http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/03/24/budget-win-tax-break-for-uk-developers/

as a single issue voter, i guess you're gonna be labour's champion from now on.

Em yes but without the cultural test, and applied to all studios, for whatever their developing. Because at the moment RockSteady wouldn't get any of the tax break Labour have promised.

Also Tax Breaks are giving the studio money, because they don't have to pay tax they WOULD otherwise have to pay. That's why it's called a Tax Break

True but I meant not via tax payers money which the poster implied.

 

[Mad_Ban]

After seeing that spread in the Daily Mail about Clegg, on the Sky News press preview, I'm ashamed to have papers in this country that are so bloody stupid and biased.

 

[wave dial]

True but I meant not via tax payers money which the poster implied.

what I "implied" was that government would lose money so that the company would gain money

 

[Linkified]

what I "implied" was that government would lose money so that the company would gain money

And that the money the game company saved would aloow for game studios, tech based companies to hire more staff, to encourage more exports from the UK, to lower unemployment which would in turn means less people on job seekers allowance.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Army supports scrapping of Trident:

Four Army generals have written to Wednesday's Times, saying Britain should be prepared to scrap the Trident nuclear weapons system. Rapid cuts in nuclear forces are "the way to achieve international security", they say.

Good to see a proper debate happening about this. Money wasted on Trident would be better spent on conventional forces.

You don't keep a Cold War era weapon system when everything has changed, the spending is also ridiculous considering the state and size of our country and how underequipped our forces our.

Other countries do just fine without an independent nuclear deterrent, we haven't been a superpower for a very long time. It's counterproductive to be a Little Englander and pretend that we are.

Definitely puts the Lib Dems on a better footing going into the next debate.

 

[wave dial]

And that the money the game company saved would aloow for game studios, tech based companies to hire more staff, to encourage more exports from the UK, to lower unemployment which would in turn means less people on job seekers allowance.

But does that really need to happen? Why can Japanese, South Korean, American studios do just fine without tax breaks? It's like publisher welfare.

 

[Dabookerman]

Trident is so moronic. If we were nuked there would hardly be a country left to protect. There simply isn't any point. Especially since America have theirs swimming around on constant watch. It's a waste of money.

 

[Dabookerman]

Other countries don't necessarily have to do that. Is the UK's gaming industry that sad that they need special attention?

Yeah man, I love the idea of Tax Breaks for game studios here too, I honestly do because it would see better more staff and such, but the same is true of nearly all businesses and areas. The problem right now is the billions of debt we're in.

So (playing politics a little) would you like to cost your Tax Break policy Mr.Bookerman?

You can google the budget and other figures for the state if you'd like, it'd be interesting to see. Challenge also extends to Linkified too.

I have no idea what my personal Tax Break policy would be haha. All I know is that Labour and Lib Dems have supported it. Not sure about Tory, but they may have too.

The problem is, the UK games industry is actually moving to the 4th biggest now (it was 3rd). A lot of people in the Industry are moving to countries like Canada etc because they actually do have a tax break.
Tax Break means more money to studios, which means more jobs available. More studios. So this directly affects me. I am struggling to get a job because I haven't worked yet, and the only thing I'm lacking is experience. I have had companies say my work is good, but they don't want juniors. It sucks.
The Games Industry is always growing. And it brings in money and work.

But does that really need to happen? Why can Japanese, South Korean, American studios do just fine without tax breaks? It's like publisher welfare.

Well, can't comment on S. Korea. But Japan and American studios do fine because they have the biggest industry in the world. America number 1 and Japan number 2.

 

[ghst]

Trident is so moronic. If we were nuked there would hardly be a country left to protect. There simply isn't any point. Especially since America have theirs swimming around on constant watch. It's a waste of money.

seriously. what we really need is to rebuild our fleet of dreadnoughts, and mount our nuclear deterrent on those.

OH DID THOSE FEET IN ANCIENT TIM..........

 

[Omikaru]

Iain Dale truly is insufferable. I've always disliked him, but this post he made today takes the cake.

If the Tories lose this election to a Lib/Lab coalition, the first thing a new government would do is to introduce PR. Not just AV, but full STV. Clegg would demand it and Brown would have to agree. And if that happened the British people can look forward to a semi permanent left of centre government.

Because, for Iain Dale, the will of the British people, that every man and woman in this country should have a vote that is of equal value to their neighbour, is less important than his nasty little party having their turn in power on about 35% of the vote.

This is the kind of change that the Conservative Party want to offer.

 

[Dabookerman]

Just checked. All 3 parties would like to introduce Tax Break to the games industry. So that's good.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/uk-games-industry-welcomes-tax-breaks

The UK games industry has welcomed the introduction of a games industry tax relief programme in today's UK Government’s Budget.

CEO, Dr Richard Wilson, said: “This is an inspired decision. In backing Tiga’s Games Tax Relief the Government has chosen the future over the past, growth over decline, success over failure. Games Tax Relief will increase employment, investment and innovation in the UK video games sector.”

He continued: “Our research shows that Games Tax Relief over a five year period should create or protect 3,550 graduate level jobs, increase or safeguard £457 million in development expenditure and encourage developers to adopt new business models and create new Intellectual Property. Games Tax Relief will ensure that the UK remains a world leading developer of video games. Games Tax Relief is good for the UK video games industry, good for UK consumers and good for the UK economy.”

“Ministers have made the right decision at the right time for the right industry... TIGA now looks to the Opposition parties to give their full support to Games Tax Relief in the Finance Bill.”

Rebellion’s CEO and Tiga chairman, Jason Kingsley has agreed, branding the move as “the right decision for the future” saying it will allow UK developers “a more even playing field”.

“Games Tax Relief is also a decisive achievement by TIGA,” Kingsley added. “There are around 1,000 trade associations in the UK working to influence Government policy. In 2009, only one sector was invited by the Government to submit a case to change UK tax policy – the games industry.”

Mark Gerhard, CEO of Jagex, also welcomed the news saying he was “absolutely delighted” and praised Tiga for making “a significant difference to the UK games industry".

Ubisoft Reflections boss and Tiga vice-chairman, Gareth Edmondson, referred to the announcement as a “triumph”, saying: “It will enable the UK games industry to remain a success story.”

Meanwhile, Dundee-based Realtime Worlds also chimed in, with studio manager Colin Macdonald stating: “The UK video games industry is one of the most creative and innovative in the world. This decision will mean we can continue to invest in UK talent and prevent brain drain to our overseas competitors. This is a great day for Scottish and UK-wide developers. It is also a major achievement by TIGA.”

Colin Anderson, managing director at Denki, also joined in to congratulate Tiga for the “decisive role” it played in getting the games industry into today’s Budget.

Blitz CEO, Philip Oliver, said: “TIGA has worked tirelessly to raise the profile of our industry among Government and Parliamentarians. Today’s decision is proof that this hard work has paid off... we are sure that this measure will grow the industry, create more jobs and lead to higher tax revenues for Government in the future.”

Finally, Paul Mayze, COO of Monumental, greeted the “right decision” from the Government.

“ Today’s decision by the Government to back the introduction of Tiga’s Games Tax Relief will go a long way to helping ensure that we can remain competitive in the global market,” he said.

 

[Linkified]

But does that really need to happen? Why can Japanese, South Korean, American studios do just fine without tax breaks? It's like publisher welfare.

Firstly Florida does have tax breaks

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28031/Florida_House_Unanimously_Passes_Game_Tax_Breaks.php

I can't do it justice but read this article I've read others in MCV mag but this sums up the need:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/25822/UK_Games_Industry_Under_Threat_Due_To_Lack_of_Govt_Support.php

Edit: Good work Dabookerman. I keep coming in this thread while my program compiles.

 

[wave dial]

Firstly Florida does have tax breaks

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28031/Florida_House_Unanimously_Passes_Game_Tax_Breaks.php

I can't do it justice but read this article I've read others in MCV mag but this sums up the need:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/25822/UK_Games_Industry_Under_Threat_Due_To_Lack_of_Govt_Support.php

erm how many companies are actually in Florida? Many many major companies do fine outside of Florida.

 

[Linkified]

erm how many companies are actually in Florida? Many many major companies do fine outside of Florida.

Psst. It attracts new companies to set up there.

If it was introduced over here we would naturally see a boom of FDI payments.

 

[wave dial]

Psst. It attracts new companies to set up there.

If it was introduced over here we would naturally see a boom of FDI payments.

California or Tokyo didn't have to make tax breaks for game companies to set up shop.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

California or Tokyo didn't have to make tax breaks for game companies to set up shop.

so what?

 

[Linkified]

California or Tokyo didn't have to make tax breaks for game companies to set up shop.

Have you read any of the info Dabookerman posted or anything I have?

 

[Empty]

I think wavedial is missing the point. It isn't that we need tax breaks for our gaming industry to survive, they will do fine without them, companies will continue to get set up, profitable games will be made etc. It's that using tax breaks can help a growing, skilled industry, one that we can compete in on a global stage, to flourish in this country; as opposed to in Canada or France where they are far more active in encouraging the industry. It is good for our economy going forwards to encourage the growth of the gaming market here, it creates jobs that can't be shipped to the far east or south america, it is a rapidly growing industry so our economy can see the gains of the growth, it is tailor made for the kind of skilled labor we have in this country, it is an area we can become a world-leader in and attract more investment to work off that, and it is something that we can export in large quantities. Aggressive industrial policy now on gaming leads to big payoffs later, as far as i'm concerned.

 

[DECK'ARD]

The full article on Trident in the Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7103196.ece

They are arguing the money would be better spent on all the armed forces, that the forces are already underfunded, threats have changed, and our country is no longer in a position to justify it or need it in a changed world.

Unless you are hiding under a table from the Red Peril that is China, or still believe Britain is a superpower, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

 

[Dabookerman]

I think wavedial is missing the point. It isn't that we need tax breaks for our gaming industry to survive, they will do fine without them, companies will continue to get set up, profitable games will be made etc. It's that using tax breaks can help a growing, skilled industry, one that we can compete in on a global stage, to flourish in this country; as opposed to in Canada or France where they are far more active in encouraging the industry. It is good for our economy going forwards to encourage the growth of the gaming market here, it creates jobs that can't be shipped to the far east or south america, it is a rapidly growing industry so our economy can see the gains of the growth, it is tailor made for the kind of skilled labor we have in this country, it is an area we can become a world-leader in and attract more investment to work off that, and it is something that we can export in large quantities. Aggressive industrial policy now on gaming leads to big payoffs later, as far as i'm concerned.

Well said. And to drive the point home. There will always be demand for entertainment.
One thing I absolutely love about the iphone and what it's brought us is this surge of all these new studios that are making iphone games. And they make good money from it. Loads of new studios and jobs.

 

[wave dial]

Have you read any of the info Dabookerman posted or anything I have?

Yeah I did, but they don't explain why the UK can't compete with the Bay Area, Kyoto, or Seoul. I don't recall Nintendo or Blizzard getting tax breaks to set up shop where they did.