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[J Tourettes]

:lol
Yeah, he was somewhat influential but I don't think he was responsible for the global economic downturn. And the subtext I'm reading here is that somehow a Tory chancellor from 1997 onward would have put in place policies to contain the CoL and the banking sector. That too is laughable considering Tory essence is to facilitate business interests above all else.

Maybe they wouldn't have spent as much and overseen the massive expansion of the civil service? They certainly wouldn't have tightened any of the financial regulations though, that's for damn sure.

 

[JonathanEx]

Good news for comedy and satire on the election, The Now Show is going to be on 3 times a week from next week, as the "Vote Now Show" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ry8mt

 

[Walshicus]

Sir Fragula: Nope. Brown put the UK economy in the worst possible condition to weather the recession.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1263537/IMF-warns-UK-growth-lower-expected.html

Yeah because it's not like even Tory peers can see that Brown's handling of the recession resulted in one of the most painless recessions we've ever had...

It isn't at a 15 year high, the rate of growth was its highest for 15 years. Manufacturing has fallen since 1997.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...decline-Labour-greater-Margaret-Thatcher.html

I... just read what I said again before you start trawling through the Heil for refutations.

 

[jas0nuk]

I was actually trying to find the ONS manufacturing figures and the IMF forecast, the first result for them was the Mail article. :lol Just because it's a terrible newspaper doesn't mean it's factually incorrect

I see you corrected your post. Regardless, it's worth pointing out the huge decline in manufacturing since Labour came to power.

 

[Chinner]

In September 2015 MGSV will be released.

It will be about Big Boss, and he will lose his arm and it will be a psychological revenge story revolving around his sanity.

The main things will be:

* Is Grey Fox Big Boss
* There will be a naked woman who may be a boy after a sex change
* Volgin will return as a illusion
* Pyscho Mantis child
* THere will be references to Lord of the flies.

Also, this will be Kojima's last game, for real. There will be lots of hype and it will be a open-world.

 

[Walshicus]

I see you corrected your post. Regardless, it's worth pointing out the huge decline in manufacturing since Labour came to power.

I didn't correct anything, you read it wrong in the first place you silly person.

The edit time would have come up if I did.

 

[jas0nuk]

Hands up then, I misread it!

Edits don't come up the first time though, on some forums. Well, anyway...


http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeeho...h-might-reverberate-across-the-campaign.thtml

Mark the date: the first major heckle of the election campaign happened today, and Gordon Brown was the victim. The perp was one Ben Butterworth, and he was angry at how his children can't get into their choice of state school – a frustration which will be shared by thousands of parents across the country. I wonder what they'll think when they see that Brown ignored the man.

 

[Walshicus]

Well, clearly we'd all love to live in fantasy land where everyone's favourite school had capacity for every child in the county.

 

[FabCam]

Well, clearly we'd all love to live in fantasy land where everyone's favourite school had capacity for every child in the county.

You're completely overlooking the larger problem. Parents shouldn't be pissed when their kid doesn't get into their first choice because their second or third of fourth choice should offer an equally good education.

 

[curls]

You're completely overlooking the larger problem. Parents shouldn't be pissed when their kid doesn't get into their first choice because their second or third of fourth choice should offer an equally good education.

Private schools offer the best standard of education by far. If they want the best they will have to pay for it.

 

[Walshicus]

You're completely overlooking the larger problem. Parents shouldn't be pissed when their kid doesn't get into their first choice because their second or third of fourth choice should offer an equally good education.

Some parents will always be pissed - but as a trend schools are performing better and funding is higher.

 

[Chinner]

Private schools offer the best standard of education by far. If they want the best they will have to pay for it.

So you're saying not every child has the right to a good education? welps poor people lose again!

 

[OMG Aero]

Hands up then, I misread it!

Edits don't come up the first time though, on some forums. Well, anyway...


http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeeho...h-might-reverberate-across-the-campaign.thtml

That was terrible.
I was at least expecting some funny name calling or something.

 

[curls]

So you're saying not every child has the right to a good education? welps poor people lose again!

No, just stating the truth.

Yes, I do believe that every child should have the highest standard of education, sadly it does not work like that.

 

[gerg]

No, just stating the truth.

Yes, I do believe that every child should have the highest standard of education, sadly it does not work like that.

Which is why you responded to a prescriptive statement with a descriptive one, then? Your response feels like a non-sequitor.

 

[Chinner]

For those who don't know who to vote for:

In the last thread we had voteforpolicies, but the Telegraph has put up one as well.

With Voteforpolicies I got Green, with the Telegraph I got Lib Dems.

 

[avaya]

Sir Fragula: Nope. Brown put the UK economy in the worst possible condition to weather the recession.

You are talking absolute bollocks about things which are clearly way over your head.

Trying to frame a vote for the Tories as a matter of Economic prudence is completely baseless.

Any savings prior to 2007 would have merely been a rounding error relative to the size of the bailouts. RBS has a balance sheet greater than our GDP. Any PSNCR curtailments would have been rendered meaningless midnight September 15th 2008.

The seeds of the crisis were sown by Alan Greenspan's method of deregulating financial markets. You can trace back the spark to the meeting in which he told the CFTC chairwomen to essentially get bent when she suggested regulation of OTC derivatives, CDS in particular. Blaming the FSA for not handling this is completely ridiculous. If they didn't exist the Bank of England would have been in the exact same position, a bystander watching idly as it all went to shit.

Anyone who says they saw this coming is talking bullshit.

Very few people could connect the dots and the methods by which Goldman Sachs had essentially conned AIG. AIG was the CDS market. AIG didn't know it. The governments of Europe could not figure out that Goldman had helped Greece pass off open market operations as FX transactions FFS!

To pin the national debt increases post bailout on Labour is a clear distortion of reality. There are no facts to back up that claim what so ever when the reality is that the Tories were more supportive of financial sector deregulation than anyone else.

Deregulation is a weapon of mass destruction in Finance. When one country does it, everyone has to follow in order to maintain competitiveness. It is not by choice.

The UK/Europe had no choice but to follow after the US repealed Glass-Steagall, re-engineering the Universal Banking Model. Goldman took itself public to enjoy the new feeding frenzy that was set-up.

Jon Mack, CEO of Morgan Stanley has finally come out and said, one year after quitting his post, that they need to be controlled because they have no idea what they are doing anymore.

To claim that Brown is clueless when it comes to the economy is a CLEAR distortion of the facts.

Gordon Brown did something mid-crisis that very people give him due credit for. The decisions he took post-Lehman stopped a recession from becoming a depression. The unilateral action taken by the Treasury to purchase stakes in RBS, Lloyds/HBOS providing a government guarantee on the balance sheets of those firms (assets 3 x UK GDP) stopped capital erosion and allowed the banking system to survive. People do not realise how close we were to the edge of total total meltdown. The US Treasury was still batshit freemarketeering while the shit was hitting the fan. They did not want to take equity in their banks. Brown's decision forced their hand. Paulson was furious. But it worked. Prior to that all they were doing was lending. It wasn't going to make a difference since capital had dried up and aggressive shorting had started as writedowns spiralled. The actions of the Treasury forced their US counterparts to lock the Masters of the Universe up in a meeting room a the Fed where they were all told the government will take equity/derivative positions in their firms.

In PMQ's some weeks later Brown made a Freudian slip when he said "we saved the world" to much laughter from across the other side of the house. The reality was he wasn't far off.

 

[curls]

Which is why you responded to a prescriptive statement with a descriptive one, then? Your response feels like a non-sequitor.

You're trying to find an argument where there is none, possibly due to my poor wording.

It was a statement based upon my own educational and personal experience, followed up by my own opinion.

 

[gerg]

You're trying to find an argument where there is none, possibly due to my poor wording.

It was a statement based upon my own educational and personal experience, followed by my own opinion.

I apologise, as I realise that what I had written sounds quite antagonistic. Nevertheless, my point is that a statement about what is the case doesn't seem to quite follow from one about what should be the case. Ultimately, you did clarify what you meant, but your original post is confusing because of this.

 

[travisbickle]

travisbickle: So you approve of the excessive bureaucracy in this country? xD

Firstly I don't find it "excessive", but I try not to read the Daily Mail. Secondly, I find the idea of cutting taxes to the extent of letting people spend the money till we're out of debt is fuckin' nonsensical, I mean rich people getting given more money and you think they're going to spend it?

 

[curls]

I apologise, as I realise that what I had written sounds quite antagonistic, but my point is that a statement about what is the case doesn't seem to quite follow from one about what should be the case.

Private schools offer the best standard of education by far. If they want the best they will have to pay for it.

Yeah, I can see how this can be interpreted. :lol

 

[FabCam]

Private schools offer the best standard of education by far. If they want the best they will have to pay for it.

ARG!!! They DO pay for it!This is as silly a statement as people who say "free healthcare". If tax wasn't so massively high, people wouldn't have a problem with it but when the government takes all your hard earned cash and you get nothing in return, people get pissed.

 

[Chinner]

Really good post avaya.

 

[curls]

ARG!!! They DO pay for it!This is as silly a statement as people who say "free healthcare". If tax wasn't so massively high, people wouldn't have a problem with it but when the government takes all your hard earned cash and you get nothing in return, people get pissed.

Ok directly pay a hell of a lot more then.

 

[blazinglord]

For those who don't know who to vote for:

In the last thread we had voteforpolicies, but the Telegraph has put up one as well.

With Voteforpolicies I got Green, with the Telegraph I got Lib Dems.

This will probably make me unpopular... but the results I got for the short telegraph quiz are:

UK Independence Party:
61%
Conservative Party:
51%
Liberal Democrats:
26%
Green Party:
21%
Labour Party:
16%

It's strange though, because I have always considered UKIP to be a bit too extreme for me but I suppose my hostility to Brussels pushed up the UKIP percentage.

For the record though, I will not be voting for UKIP.

 

[Walshicus]

What don't you like about the EU? As a confederalist I'm quite interested in why you'd be ideologically opposed to European unionism.

 

[Chinner]

Looks like Labour are trying to impress Lib Dem voters/plant the seeds for a coalition:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brown-makes-early-overture-to-lib-dems-1937588.html

A far-reaching package of constitutional reforms which could form the basis of a deal between Labour and the Liberal Democrats if the general election results in a hung parliament will be announced by Gordon Brown today.

In a speech this afternoon, Mr Brown is expected to outline his support for fixed-term four-year parliaments, surrendering the Prime Minister's power to choose the date of an election; a "double referendum" on the voting system for Westminster elections; a fully elected House of Lords; and an eventual move to a written constitution.

Quite amusing considering Clegg's and Brown's debate in the PMQ today. Still, (putting aside these promises where made 13 years ago), this is good and stuff I want to see.

 

[iapetus]

I ran through the Telegraph quiz and got just what I'd expect - Lib Dems, Labour, Conservatives, UKIP, BNP, Greens in that order. Well, the Greens were a surprise - I'd have hoped they'd be above the BNP in the 'parties I wouldn't vote for' section.

 

[cntr]

For those who don't know who to vote for:

In the last thread we had voteforpolicies, but the Telegraph has put up one as well.

With Voteforpolicies I got Green, with the Telegraph I got Lib Dems.

I'm not from the UK, but I got Liberal Democrats, as expected.

 

[jas0nuk]

Anyone who says they saw this coming is talking bullshit.

What about the holy Saint Vince of Cable!? :lol
Good post, but it doesn't rid Brown of any blame with respect to making our economy more reliant on financial services, and the fact we had huge public borrowing while our economy was growing has truly f**ked us up.

travisbickle: The NI cut is for low and middle earners and their employers, not "rich people".

 

[Chinner]

What about the holy Saint Vince of Cable!? :lol
Good post, but it doesn't rid Brown of any blame with respect to making our economy more reliant on financial services, and the fact we had huge public borrowing while our economy was growing has truly f**ked us up.

More reliant? Thatcher did that.

 

[blazinglord]

What don't you like about the EU? As a confederalist I'm quite interested in why you'd be ideologically opposed to European unionism.

In a nutshell, I suppose I have some concerns with the erosion of UK's sovereignty and the move towards a federal Europe. I should make clear that I do not favour complete withdrawal from the EU but I do think that Britain should put its own interest first and I don't feel the transfer of more and more powers to the EU is in our interest. For example, the removal of the national veto was a mistake in my view. We can now effectively be held to ransom by a qualified voting majority on any law that is not in Britain's interest! A sceptical Prime Minister who isn't afraid to have a robust relationship with the EU (Thatcher-style) would not be a bad thing in my view. Sarkozy vigorously defends France's interests (see Common Agricultural Policy), as does Germany (see refusal to contribute to EU bailout) - I'll spare you from listing every example from various European leaders. What do we get? A few red lines in the Lisbon Treaty that will not be legally binding.

 

[Walshicus]

In a nutshell, I suppose I have some concerns with the erosion of UK's sovereignty and the move towards a federal Europe. I should make clear that I do not favour complete withdrawal from the EU but I do think that Britain should put its own interest first and I don't feel the transfer of more and more powers to the EU is in our interest. For example, the removal of the national veto was a mistake in my view. We can now effectively be held to ransom by a qualified voting majority on any law that is not in Britain's interest! A sceptical Prime Minister who isn't afraid to have a robust relationship with the EU (Thatcher-style) would not be a bad thing in my view. Sarkozy vigorously defends France's interests (see Common Agricultural Policy), as does Germany (see refusal to contribute to EU bailout) - I'll spare you from listing every example from various European leaders. What do we get? A few red lines in the Lisbon Treaty that will not be legally binding.

I'm anti-British [as per the other thread, fuck Britain I'm English] and I see the EU as the sole method of preserving national identity and culture in a globalising world. If you do the whole "our interest first" thing then it soon descends into a debate as to why Sussex should be bound by English decisions or Crawley by Sussex, or... well you see.

Also, I've yet to see a single European law that I've disagreed with.

 

[jas0nuk]

Digital Economy Bill LIVE

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/apr/07/digital-economy-bill-internet

 

[Chinner]

John Harris is doing a election tour:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/video/2010/apr/07/scotland-labour-snp-conservatives

Check out his other videos, they're really good.

 

[Chinner]

Digital Economy Bill LIVE

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/apr/07/digital-economy-bill-internet

I just switched over from Theres Something About Mary to BBC PARL'MNT to watch this. Jesus I'm sad :lol

 

[travisbickle]

travisbickle: The NI cut is for low and middle earners and their employers, not "rich people".

I was respnding to the statement you made last page:

"Cutting waste and taxes and letting people spend the money themselves is better than letting the government waste it"

I'm not talking about the NI increase, I'm talking about you wanting less money spent on the civil service, and also lowering taxes; you want a Britain back to the good old 80s of not spending any money on public services and "giving" more money to the people to spend, which I doubt will be spent on the British economy.

How old were you during Maggies Britain? And what position do you hold at the moment? (if you don't mind me asking?)

 

[J Tourettes]

This will probably make me unpopular... but the results I got for the short telegraph quiz are:

UK Independence Party:
61%
Conservative Party:
51%
Liberal Democrats:
26%
Green Party:
21%
Labour Party:
16%

It's strange though, because I have always considered UKIP to be a bit too extreme for me but I suppose my hostility to Brussels pushed up the UKIP percentage.

For the record though, I will not be voting for UKIP.

I think you've missed out the BNP result.

 

[LukeT]

Watching this Digital Economy bill debate is cringeworthy! Its like listening to my dad talking about the internet and technology :lol

Also why do they keep using the term 'file sharing' in such a way that all file sharing is used for obtaining copyrighted material. They don't have a clue!

Steven Timms' response to another bloke asking what would happen if someone got onto his wifi connection and downloaded copyrighted material without him knowing was gold....

"Put a password on it, the letter will tell you to do this also" :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Dabookerman]

Green Party:
67%

Liberal Democrats:
61%

Labour Party:
55%

Conservative Party:
39%

UK Independence Party:
32%

British National Party:
32%

Well this one seems more accurate to me.

 

[blazinglord]

I'm anti-British [as per the other thread, fuck Britain I'm English] and I see the EU as the sole method of preserving national identity and culture in a globalising world. If you do the whole "our interest first" thing then it soon descends into a debate as to why Sussex should be bound by English decisions or Crawley by Sussex, or... well you see.

Also, I've yet to see a single European law that I've disagreed with.

That is not to say that one won't be proposed.

When I say UK's interests, I mean in the context of common law and sovereignty of parliament in Westminster. I don't really have an opinion on regionalism (or nationalism), but I will point out that at least at Westminster there are representatives from every part of the UK.

I think you've missed out the BNP result.

No, I just didn't select the BNP option because on the site it asked you to select only the parties you'd consider voting for. I would never consider voting for the BNP ergo I didn't select that option.

 

[J Tourettes]

That is not to say that one won't be proposed.

When I say UK's interests, I mean in the context of common law and sovereignty of parliament in Westminster. I don't really have an opinion on regionalism (or nationalism), but I will point out that at least at Westminster there are representatives from every part of the UK.


No, I just didn't select the BNP option because on the site it asked you to select only the parties I'd consider voting for. I would never consider voting for the BNP ergo I didn't select that option.

Frightened by how high they might place? everybody else included them in the interest of fairness.

 

[Wes]

Question Time starting now by the way.

Flicking between this and the debill.

 

[Chinner]

why has question time started so late?

 

[blazinglord]

Frightened by how high they might place? everybody else included them in the interest of fairness.

Well A, I didn't realise they would list all the parties by percentage like that until I got the results and B, as a son of an immigrant, it's a party that I would never vote for on a matter of principle. But I could always retake it if you wish.

 

[Wes]

Simon Schama! Oh this will be good.

 

[J Tourettes]

Liberal Democrats:

57%
Labour Party:

52%
Conservative Party:

51%
British National Party:

47%
Green Party:

46%
UK Independence Party:
44%

 

[J Tourettes]

Well A, I didn't realise they would list all the parties by percentage like that until I got the results and B, as a son of an immigrant, it's a party that I would never vote for on a matter of principle. But I could always retake it if you wish.

Only winding you up. Besides I already know where they would be.

 

[blazinglord]

Only winding you up. Besides I already know where they would be.

Where?

 

[JonathanEx]

Watching BBC Parliament is depressing. In general, moreso tonight.