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UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage

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H

Hexadecimalt

Banned
"Nazi: You are in accord with the policies and positions of the National Socialist German Worker's Party, or NASDAP, known colloquially as the Nazi Party."

The test has to be rigged :lol
 
K

killer_clank

Member
Blue_Gecko said:
"Nazi: You are in accord with the policies and positions of the National Socialist German Worker's Party, or NASDAP, known colloquially as the Nazi Party."

The test has to be rigged :lol
Click to expand...

Nah, it's just if you have some socialist viewpoints it just says you're a Nazi and hate the jews.
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Chinner said:
oh god michael caine was at the tory conference. *weep*
Click to expand...

He's a rich old white guy with a knighthood. If anything, he should be a Tory candidate.
 
S

Salazar

Member
In the general sweep of condemnation of this and that Tory candidate, let us make an exception for Rory Stewart. The man's awesome.
 
R

Ripclawe

Banned
Chinner said:
oh god michael caine was at the tory conference. *weep*
Click to expand...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...d-far-more-people-like-Sir-Michael-Caine.html

His name, as they say, is Michael Caine. And he's not a happy bunny. The 76-year-old film star has revealed in colourful terms that he has had it, and will leave Britain if taxes get any higher.

"The Government has taken tax up to 50 per cent, and if it goes to 51 I will be back in America," he said at the weekend. "We've got 3.5 million layabouts on benefits, and I'm 76, getting up at 6am to go to work to keep them. Let's get everybody back to work so we can save a couple of billion and cut tax, not keep sticking it up."
Click to expand...

Sounds like a Labour supporter to me
 
J

jas0nuk

Member
Throughout yesterday Labour kept saying that the Conservatives intended "taking £6 billion out of the economy" through their NI tax reversal. What utter nonsense. They seem to think that state spending is the economy and the private sector is secondary to that.

--

Interesting blog post from ITV political editor Tom Bradby

It’s a subject little discussed that interviewing Gordon is unlike interviewing any other politician.
Most encounters with party leaders or MPs form a distinct pattern. We come in. We sit down. We chat pleasantly. We do an interview, which is probing, highbrow or a bit brutal, as circumstances demand. Then we exchange more pleasantries as we shoot a few ‘wide’ shots. And we go away.
End of story.
Simple, huh?
Tony Blair was like this. David Cameron is. So are Alastair Darling, Nick Clegg, George Osborne and just about every other front rank politician I can think of.
Not Gordon. He’s not a bad man. I’m not saying that. In fact, on the contrary, I often feel what I see behind the grumpy manner and those hooded eyes is a deep well of humanity.
But interviewing him is emotionally complicated.He doesn’t seem to understand that we are here to ask difficult questions and test his arguments by establishing contrary positions. He nearly always tells us we are wrong, both on and off camera, and that we have not done our research. He often gets angry, sometimes sulks and from time to time looks brutally hurt.
I really don’t know what to make of it. It’s not politics as we know it.
Click to expand...
http://blog.itv.com/news/tombradby/?p=232
 
O

Omikaru

Member
I actually like Cameron's youth voluntary service as an idea. I'm sure we'd disagree about what the contents of such a programme would contain, but we need to at least trial these things to see if they work towards tacking anti-social behaviour and the welfare leeches we currently suffer from as a country.

At the very least it's a potential solution to a problem that Labour has failed to address.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
jas0nuk said:
Throughout yesterday Labour kept saying that the Conservatives intended "taking £6 billion out of the economy" through their NI tax reversal. What utter nonsense. They seem to think that state spending is the economy and the private sector is secondary to that.
Click to expand...
State spending is money that is actually... spent. Even at the best of times the public's marginal propensity to consume will be < 1. The velocity of money is greater from the state than the consumer.
 
NekoFever

NekoFever

Member
SmokyDave said:
Yup. Two in a row :(

I answered 'Yes' to 'England should have a separate parliament' but none of the others struck me as especially BNP/UKIP other than 'Should Foreign Born Criminals Be Deported?' to which I answered 'No' because I feel the severity of the crime and time of residence needed defining.

I know I can be a bit 'off' at times but I didn't have myself down as the full-on-foaming-at-the-mouth-Mail-reading-white-van-man. Perhaps I ought to re-consider that Cobweb tattoo on my forehead. Is there an 'Am I a closet Nazi' personality test?
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This is why these things should only be a guideline. Technically you're a criminal if you've got a speeding fine, but I don't think many people would see deportation as a proportionate punishment for going 37 in a 30.

I mean, I chose 'No' on the question about whether people should have immunity for whatever happens to someone who broke into their house. I know that plenty of people would see that as some bleeding-heart response, but in reality I think that appropriate force to defend yourself and your family and property should be allowed, tempered by the fact that causing grievous bodily harm or shooting them are crimes and should be treated as such. But then again I don't think that the Human Rights Act is some evil European conspiracy, so what do I know?

SmokyDave said:
Thank goodness for that. I used to date a Jewish girl for fucks sake!
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"Used to"? Why did you break up, Adolf?

On the Michael Caine thing, watch Harry Brown. It's like a Daily Mail fantasy.
 
T

travisbickle

Member
John lydon, the los angeles property tycoon, is quoted as saying:

'socialism doesn't work because i've lived in a council flat..'

Rich fuckers have no grasp of reality.
 
O

operon

Member
Everyone in this thread is getting the main issues wrong, its not the economy, or jobs etc here in Northern Ireland the real issues are parades and flags, so we need UKIP, Labour, Greens, Conservative policies on such :D important issues:D
 
T

travisbickle

Member
jas0nuk said:
I suppose you think I'm a rich fucker then? I'm actually a poor Maths/Physics student from Manchester ;D
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No, Michael Caine and the lead singer of the Sex Pistols are rich fucks.

You're just buried in the belief that giving money back to the people to spend will improve the economy, and in turn improve people's lives, because everyone's lives are better with more money then they can all afford private services blah, blah, blah.... You're old school tory, and I'm not suprised you're a Maths/physics student, probably want to work for General Healthcare Group or something.

Which Uni are you at? I'm at MMU.
 
J

jas0nuk

Member
lmao. I'm not actually advocating the NI cut because of what you said about buying "private services". For example, I'm a firm believer in the NHS but there's no point in pretending that after 13 years of throwing money at it it's the best healthcare system in the world. Yes, waiting times have been cut and there are more doctors and nurses. It's still hugely wasteful and a lot of hospitals are failing. You hear horror stories all the time.

If you increase what it costs for a business to create jobs and employ people, there WILL be less growth in the job market and there may very well be redundancies that wouldn't otherwise have happened.

NI is one of the worst taxes to increase because it is not even a tax on consumption. The business and employer have to pay it whether they're doing well or not.

I'm at Manc Uni.
 
E

Empty

Member
What tax would you rather rise than NI? Unless you think we should pay for the deficit with 100% spending cuts.

VAT? but then why should the least well off disproportionally pay for the recession caused by the wealthiest. Maybe corporation tax, they have benefited from the exporting advantages of a weak pound, or income tax which is most fair, but the former would get similar outrage from the buisness and the latter is an election losing strategy.
 
D

defel

Member
This NI thing is a false argument imo. In the greater scheme of things higher NI will play a very very small part in the overall competitiveness and efficiency of the UK economy. Anyone who believes this is an "election issue" is just getting pulled into the election rhetoric.
 
E

Empty

Member
Did Cameron just announce the creation of a Fourth Sector Pathfinders Initiative with his national service thing.
 
J

J Tourettes

Banned
travisbickle said:
No, Michael Caine and the lead singer of the Sex Pistols are rich fucks.

You're just buried in the belief that giving money back to the people to spend will improve the economy, and in turn improve people's lives, because everyone's lives are better with more money then they can all afford private services blah, blah, blah.... You're old school tory, and I'm not suprised you're a Maths/physics student, probably want to work for General Healthcare Group or something.

Which Uni are you at? I'm at MMU.
Click to expand...

They're rich fucks now but that doesn't totally exclude their experiences of growing up in a council property.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
broadwayrock said:
Wow... its the same guy on youtube who does the interesting film analysis/reviews.

He also verges on the conspiracy theory nutjob outlook on life so it will be interesting to see how he handles this suspension.
Click to expand...
it's a conspiracy!
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
Bizarre.

119o6qa.jpg
 
A

avaya

Member
Sir Fragula said:
State spending is money that is actually... spent. Even at the best of times the public's marginal propensity to consume will be < 1. The velocity of money is greater from the state than the consumer.
Click to expand...

He will ignore this since it goes against the narrative he is trying so so hard to paint. His naivety about the economy and the Tories is staggering but not surprising.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
avaya said:
He will ignore this since it goes against the narrative he is trying so so hard to paint. His naivety about the economy and the Tories is staggering but not surprising.
Click to expand...
It seems he is.
 
B

blazinglord

Member
Chinner said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...er-of-tory-gay-rights-group-says-1938700.html

Won't make a difference. Shame the public aint opening their eyes to this, but this move is quite significant to me.
Click to expand...
I'm all for gay equality and rights - but I don't really think gay issues is going to become a defining electoral issue in the marginal seats. If statistics are to believed, homosexuals make up only 10% of the population and are predominantly based in urban areas which are usually Labour strongholds anyway. Having said that, London has a high population of gay people and Boris (who believed that gay marriage was akin marrying one's dog) still won!

---

Anyway, what do people think of Cameron's latest policy initiative:

Public sector chiefs earning hundreds of thousands of pounds a year would have their salaries cut back by a Conservative government under a radical scheme to link their earnings to the lowest-paid workers in their organisation, David Cameron announces today.

[...]

In his Guardian article, Cameron writes: "We will ask the [fair pay] review to consider how to introduce a pay multiple so that no public sector worker can earn over 20 times more than the lowest-paid person in their organisation. There are many complex questions that the review will need to address, but I am confident it will not only help tackle unfair pay policies, it will improve cohesion and morale in the public sector too."
Click to expand...
Full article
Cameron's original guardian article

Personally, I have really been that concerned with what other people earn. But the issue does seem to bother a lot of other people, so I think this will be well-received.
 
J

jas0nuk

Member
State spending is money that is actually... spent. Even at the best of times the public's marginal propensity to consume will be < 1. The velocity of money is greater from the state than the consumer.
Click to expand...
What your economist-speak translates to is that the state can spend money faster than consumers, because consumers tend to save some of their disposable income as well as spend it.

Are you saying, then, that you'd rather see the state wasting money on something like ID cards or overpriced NHS IT projects than let the public decide to do what they want with the earnings they have worked for? And remember the NI increase hits employers as well as employees, making it less desirable to hire more people and making it more expensive to continue employing their current workforce. As I said before, it is not even a tax on comsumption. It has to be paid whether the business is doing well or not.

We're talking here about cutting WASTE, not sacking policemen or teachers.

This comes down to an extremely clear philosophical difference between the two parties. I am on this side of it, you are on the other. Hence, we will cross a different box on polling day.
 
J

J Tourettes

Banned
If you the government to cut down on spending, why aren't you bothered by the amount of pay public sector heads are receiving?

Edit: meant to quote BlazingLord
 
B

blazinglord

Member
J Tourettes said:
If you the government to cut down on spending, why aren't you bothered by the amount of pay public sector heads are receiving?

Edit: meant to quote BlazingLord
Click to expand...
Well I want cuts to public spending and a move towards a smaller state but I'm afraid I just can't muster up indignant rage about people earning over 200k a year. In principle, I don't object to high salaries and I don't think the wage-control of public sector bosses is likely to save a significant percentage in overall public spending. It helps of course, but it's not enough. Start cutting jobs, streamlining departments and reducing above-inflation increases in public spending.

Chinner said:
So the government is gonna take in the power to control wages then?
Click to expand...
In the public sector, of which the government is technically the employer. It would be wrong (and probably illegal) for the government to attempt to control wages in the private sector.
 
S

Salazar

Member
iapetus said:
Nice piece from Lord Adonis in the Independent.
Click to expand...

It is a bit feeble.

Philosophically it is a nonsense to pretend that the Lib Dems – or the "Social and Liberal Democrats" to give the party its original name – are equidistant between left and right, or Labour and Tory
Click to expand...

And philosophically, it is disreputable to distract people from a general truth by attacking a precise falsehood.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
blazinglord said:
In the public sector, of which the government is technically the employer. It would be wrong (and probably illegal) for the government to attempt to control wages in the private sector.
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They should either control both wages or neither. Seems pointless considering most of the spending and debt is made within the private sector. The public sector spending is just peanuts in comparisons.

In fact, I would argue this that is an excellent and indirect attack from Cameron to stop people from working in the public sector and encourage them to work in the private sector.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
I'm all for cutting public sector pay while the economy is slow, that makes sense because the public sector offers job security and other benefits the private sector cant. But if you tether high earners wages to the lowest then what you'll see is all talented employees jumping ship as soon as the economy picks up.

Pay people what they are worth, its not very difficult.
 
S

Salazar

Member
Ghost said:
But if you tether high earners wages to the lowest then what you'll see is all talented employees jumping ship as soon as the economy picks up.
Click to expand...

This conjures, so vividly, the Monty Python scenes of galleon-skyscrapers and piratical traders. Fucking genius, immortal and inimitable.
 
Z

Zenith

Banned
iapetus said:
Nice piece from Lord Adonis in the Independent. To summarise it:



Cretin.
Click to expand...

haha, when I saw this on BBC I thought the Indie was going to spin it as semi-positive because it was their exclusive, but they really spat on him.

"Labour begs for Lib Dem votes"
 
K

killer_clank

Member
In Scotland they're doing the same thing, by basically saying if you vote for any party than Labour, you're voting Conservative.

It's shocking. :lol
 
O

Omikaru

Member
Doesn't surprise me that the Indie spun it that way; they're a pro-Lib Dem party, even with their new owner.

Lord Adonis' point is a paradox in and of itself.

"Labour and LibDems are have the same beliefs", which is why there are two separate parties. The whole reason the LibDems formed is because the Liberals merged with a Labour offshoot because Labour sucked. I can kind of understand (though disagree with) the sentiments in saying LibDem supporters should vote Labour in a Lab/Tory marginal, but to tell them to vote Labour in a Lib/Lab marginal is ludicrous.

If the LibDems and Labour are so ideologically similar, then it wouldn't matter who wins in a Lib/Lab marginal, because they're so similar they'd instantly band together in the instance of a hung parliament (which Gordon gets first dibs on forming a Government in, considering he's PM). In summary, that letter by Lord Adonis is slimey.

The Indie also has another interesting piece: Is Balls heading for a Portillo moment? I certainly hope so, even if it means one extra Tory MP.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
You get the feeling that Clegg is handling this election really well, and really, the reason that he's doing all of these interviews is because he has nothing to lose. Also, the main election theme being the economy really plays into LD's court because they have the strongest chancellor of the three in Cable, making Darling look like a fool, and Osborne look like a boy.
 
B

blazinglord

Member
Ghost said:
I'm all for cutting public sector pay while the economy is slow, that makes sense because the public sector offers job security and other benefits the private sector cant. But if you tether high earners wages to the lowest then what you'll see is all talented employees jumping ship as soon as the economy picks up.

Pay people what they are worth, its not very difficult.
Click to expand...
The question really is why do we need a public sector Goliath that competes with the private sector? The focus should really be about keeping costs down and prioritise spending on the basics, such as hospital beds, medicines, schools rather than personnel.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
blazinglord said:
The question really is why do we need a public sector Goliath that competes with the private sector? The focus should really be about keeping costs down and prioritise spending on the basics, such as hospital beds, medicines, schools rather than personnel.
Click to expand...


What good are schools, hospitals or social services without good people running them?
 
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