J Tourettes
Banned
OMG Aero said:
News in briefs is serious business.
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UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage
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News in briefs is serious business.
freethought
Member
You guys really need to stop engaging with Linkified.
Nice positive stuff from Labour for their election broadcast tomorrow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcRXbsPafBM
smh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcRXbsPafBM
smh
I get the feeling that i'm getting too optimistic about electoral reform, should there be a hung parliament. I get the feeling that the best labour are going to offer us is the plain old AV system that they were proposing before the election anyway, and not for the right reasons, more that it would have put the conservatives at a disadvantage. I'm not interested in that kind of tribalistic bullshit. If AV+ is a baby step then AV is barely a shuffle. Even Alan Johnson coming out for AV+ doesn't have me convinced. Particularly when you get other Labour MPs saying shit like:
"The idea of proportional representation is simply not popular in our party, it's not popular in the Tory party, and even if there was a referendum held, it would not be binding," he said.
"It could only be consultative, and a sovereign Parliament, elected after the next election, would simply ignore it." - Stuart Bell
We all know what a bunch of lying cuntrags they are already, I would totally not be suprised if the above is what happens.
On top of that, any government with Gordon Brown at the helm is probably going to be deeply unpopular, and we all know the propensity of people to vote against referendums for reasons that have nothing to do with the topic being voted on eg. as some form of 'punishment'.
Plus, we also all know that AV+ is only a crippled pseudo-PR system (unlike the refered Lib Dem option of STV). The usual suspects will be campaining hard for a 'no' vote. They'll be able to make all of the arguments against PR but those in the pro camp won't be able to make ANY of the pro-PR arguments because the crippled nature of the AV+ system means it doesn't deliver the benefits that proper PR systems deliver.
And there's always the chance that Labour and the Tories hardball it and both rule it out. After all, no FPTP means no Labour monopolising the left-wing movement. And the Tories could not accept as it would probably spell the end of outright majorities for them forever.
Turkeys do not vote for dinner.
Politicians will continue to sink below even our lowest expectations of them.
There will be no electoral reform.
I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm documenting my thoughts here to see if I show to be right. If it turns out i'm right it would only be further confirmation that politicians are nothing more than a bunch of greasy, corrupt pigs in suits more interested in tribal politics and self-preservation than to actually give two shits about the people they are supposed to represent.
If it fails now it will be a very long time before we get the chance again. It will also show that a coalition government is not enough to secure reform, but an absolute majority is needed. And the chances of the Lib Dems securing that is very slim indeed.
"The idea of proportional representation is simply not popular in our party, it's not popular in the Tory party, and even if there was a referendum held, it would not be binding," he said.
"It could only be consultative, and a sovereign Parliament, elected after the next election, would simply ignore it." - Stuart Bell
We all know what a bunch of lying cuntrags they are already, I would totally not be suprised if the above is what happens.
On top of that, any government with Gordon Brown at the helm is probably going to be deeply unpopular, and we all know the propensity of people to vote against referendums for reasons that have nothing to do with the topic being voted on eg. as some form of 'punishment'.
Plus, we also all know that AV+ is only a crippled pseudo-PR system (unlike the refered Lib Dem option of STV). The usual suspects will be campaining hard for a 'no' vote. They'll be able to make all of the arguments against PR but those in the pro camp won't be able to make ANY of the pro-PR arguments because the crippled nature of the AV+ system means it doesn't deliver the benefits that proper PR systems deliver.
And there's always the chance that Labour and the Tories hardball it and both rule it out. After all, no FPTP means no Labour monopolising the left-wing movement. And the Tories could not accept as it would probably spell the end of outright majorities for them forever.
Turkeys do not vote for dinner.
Politicians will continue to sink below even our lowest expectations of them.
There will be no electoral reform.
I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm documenting my thoughts here to see if I show to be right. If it turns out i'm right it would only be further confirmation that politicians are nothing more than a bunch of greasy, corrupt pigs in suits more interested in tribal politics and self-preservation than to actually give two shits about the people they are supposed to represent.
If it fails now it will be a very long time before we get the chance again. It will also show that a coalition government is not enough to secure reform, but an absolute majority is needed. And the chances of the Lib Dems securing that is very slim indeed.
ceramic said:
Of course your right, they make the gestures to appear that they are wanting to change politics - the only ones who may is the Lib Dems and when and if they get into the corridors of power in terms of majority government they would probably be advised against it. The government of day always wants to push the idea of collectivism onto society. Yet politicians are all about individualism.
And even if you changed the system if you got it that far, there are still problems in the way we vote - we need to remove the idea of a party, as in seperate PM job as another list of candidates to vote for. Removal of party whips and other such things like fixed terms. But hell would they agree to that.
Hexadecimalt
Banned
:lolThe Guardian said:
Also in terms of public election broadcasts, this is probably one of the more honest and compelling ones I've seen this election:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZDreHPzU94
marvelharvey
Member
At least the weather looks better under the Tories.DECK'ARD said:
J Tourettes
Banned
Interesting article in The Grauniad, about the dude who predicted 49 out of 50 States correctly in the US election.
He's predicting bad things for Labour, it'll be interesting to see how close he gets with his predictions here.
The fella's site is here.
He's predicting bad things for Labour, it'll be interesting to see how close he gets with his predictions here.
The fella's site is here.
killer_clank
Member
DECK'ARD said:
The fuck is this shit? :lol
Nicktendo86
Member
Here's the link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649012.stm
My god the man is a disaster.
My god the man is a disaster.
J Tourettes
Banned
Kowak said:
A PM badmouthing a voter and describing the encounter as a disaster? I'd have to say yes.
Zeouterlimits
Member
:lol
Wow. Bungled that anyway.
Wow. Bungled that anyway.
J Tourettes said:
Oh sweet. Nate Silver is amazing, i would be on his website every day during the last US election, and though fivethirtyeight.com has run a few interesting stories on the uk election none of them until this one were by him.
His prediction based off current polling is grim for Labour, though he admits that it isn't quite as in-depth a system as he'd like.
J Tourettes
Banned
Kowak said:
Election is silly season but having said that, I'm not prepared to assume that the woman is a bigot merely on GB's say so. I have no speakers at work so can't judge for myself at the mo
freethought
Member
Empty said:
Well have you ever had to clean up your own mothers piss?
PISS PISS PISS!
CruxisMana
Member
SmokyDave said:
The news keeps repeating that she made a comment about immigration, which Brown found particularly unsavoury, but they've never actually shown it.
Of course they won't show it though, since he was most likely right...
Dr Zhivago
Member
Brown really does seem to live in his own little world.
A 66yo pensioner having concerns about immigration is not surprising, dismissing her as a bigot is a nice way of deluding himself that Labour's lack of openness and reluctance to talk about the subject is not to blame. If people only hear other people talking about it, like the BNP, that's where these worries come from.
He really is an out-of-touch fool, no wonder they kept him safely in the living rooms of lifelong Labour supporters for much of the campaign.
A 66yo pensioner having concerns about immigration is not surprising, dismissing her as a bigot is a nice way of deluding himself that Labour's lack of openness and reluctance to talk about the subject is not to blame. If people only hear other people talking about it, like the BNP, that's where these worries come from.
He really is an out-of-touch fool, no wonder they kept him safely in the living rooms of lifelong Labour supporters for much of the campaign.
MarshMellow96
Member
I'm calling a Sky News conspiracy on this one! :lol
In all seriousness though, what did the woman say in regards to immigration? I think this is what needs to be heard but of course, it won't.
Funny how someone who's supported Labour 'all their life' can turn at the drop of the hat when they are attacked personally. What about 'party policy' eh? You'd think she'd know what the alternatives were if knew who she was 'voting' for in the first place...
In all seriousness though, what did the woman say in regards to immigration? I think this is what needs to be heard but of course, it won't.
Funny how someone who's supported Labour 'all their life' can turn at the drop of the hat when they are attacked personally. What about 'party policy' eh? You'd think she'd know what the alternatives were if knew who she was 'voting' for in the first place...
Joel Was Right
Member
Here is a link for non-UK members. It also has his reaction on the radio show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H79PiZAv6yE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H79PiZAv6yE
she came up to him saying her family had always voted labour and she was embarrassed to say that she votes labour nowdays, then went on ranting about lots of subjects including eastern europeans coming over and Brown quickly said we sent lots of people out of the UK into Europe too, trying to end that line of questioning before she went on about something else.
If she did say some bigoted stuff regarding immigration policy, it would have been nice for Brown to have explained, either on the street or on the radio, why he thought she was bigoted and publicly stand up for immigrants and his policy on them. Spinelessly apologizing like that is the sort of behavior that the BNP prey on; it will be seen by mail readers and the like as another example of the political elite playing the race card to avoid discussion on this subject and they'll exploit it moving debate on this topic even further to the right.
I wish instead of falsely trying to appear "tough on immigration", and pander to The Mail and The Sun, they would actually stand up for progressive values. They've totally let the BNP hijack the immigration debate by refusing to do that and it's only hurting social cohesion as people in working class communities continue to scapegoat immigrants for their problems and see them as "taking our jerbs", without being corrected.
I wish instead of falsely trying to appear "tough on immigration", and pander to The Mail and The Sun, they would actually stand up for progressive values. They've totally let the BNP hijack the immigration debate by refusing to do that and it's only hurting social cohesion as people in working class communities continue to scapegoat immigrants for their problems and see them as "taking our jerbs", without being corrected.
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